Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

Faugheen wrote: »

So you're telling me what my motives are?

**** off.

Yes.

Appledreams15 wrote: »

I have heard from a few men today 'who cares'.

When you look at how viciously women are treated in many parts of the world, you'd wonder where this viciousness towards women originated?

Sometimes I feel like I am living in a nightmare.

Men know that women are suffering, right?

I know it is conceptually hard for me to put myself in the shoes of someone suffering racism, I think that is why men turn a blind eye to all the abuse women receive.

Please try and think of what your fellow human beings are suffering. I spoke to another girl crying about being raped at the rally today.

Someone was raped at the rally today?:eek:
Best get to AGS.

Fann Linn wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

She was going back up to get her bag, from what she has said.

Also, she never went back up after the alleged incident took place, just to make that clear.

Once again, not black and white. None of us know what happened but yet you're the only one trying to say what happened as a matter of fact because the verdict was not guilty.

So ye get raped and ye go back up to get your bag?

You're completely mixed up about the time line.

Faugheen wrote: »

If I hug a woman, or put my hand on her waist as we're chatting, does that mean I'm trying to get with her?

If your hugging strangers or putting your arm on their waist you really ought to stop. At best your wierding people out.

Hoboo wrote: »

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Have I this straight, misogynists? Assuming men might rape insults all men, but if women DON'T assume they might be raped, they're to blame

Thats beyond nonsense from Patrick Freyne.

Women for their personal safety need to assess a given situation and rationally decide if they are putting themselves in any possible danger. Thats not misogyny, thats being sensible.

I do it all the time.

Of course every woman or man has the right to do anything they want without being raped, and they shouldn't have to assume they might be raped, but fook me, has it occurred that life isn't as simple as that, and there is a possibility it could happen. And therefore rather than put yourself in that position of possible danger, remove yourself from it, or don't approach it in the first place.

No rape victim is to blame. Im not talking about blame? Im talking about the need to educate people about recognising danger and avoiding it, and not just to educate on consent. I dont know one person who doesn't understand no means no, and to be honest those that ignore it choose to do so. No amount of education will change those people, but education on personal safety might help women (and indeed men) to avoid these men.

But hey, thats just the misogynist in me :rolleyes:

Why is the onus on the victim, why don't we look at the young men in our society and find out what is wrong with them why they cant stop themselves from not reading signals or why they are so messed up they feel entitled to assault someone and take what they want from someone against their will. It's always 'she shouldn't have been there'. Never he 'shouldn't have been there'.

Honest question for everyone here, on both sides of this:

Have any of you ever gotten so drunk that you black out (not pass out - black out as in your memory shuts down for a bit) but instead of waking up the next morning with the fear, you come to your senses mid way through the night and ask yourself "what the f*ck, how did I end up here and what the hell am I even doing right now"?

This is far more common than you might think and this explains how someone might have drunkebly been enthusiastic about something and then suddenly come back to reality and say "wait what? No no no this is f*cked up".

I had one such experience myself a few years ago, I was drinking extremely heavily with a platonic friend and an hour or so later I "resurfaced" and we were making out in her bed. I had no idea how I even ended up in the bed with her and I was momentarily freaked out because I thought that *I* might have started this while she was locked, but she told me she did.

Now the funny (scary?) thing about this is that I later saw a video on a friend's phone of myself very enthusiastically reciprocating with her when she'd been grinding on me before we kissed. Under normal circumstances I'd never have even contemplated getting involved with her due to an already complicated relationship situation with her and another person in our friend group but I had done this - and not only done it, but been fully into it. Yet when I "surfaced" from my drunken haze mid way through fooling around with her, I was like "oh f*ck, oh sh!t, what have I done like???"

I'd never dream of calling that non consensual or anything, and besides I'm very laid back about this stuff so it wasn't like I regretted it enough to be upset, we just laughed it off as "one of those nights".

In that context, I can fully see how somebody might genuinely believe that they didn't consent to something. In this case there's a particularly hilarious video out there somewhere of me trying to do a very clumsy lapdance after she had, and it's very obvious that I'm totally into it. But with different people, under different circumstances, it's very possible that a false allegation might emerge from a scenario like that - without any deliberate malice on the part of the person who believes that they did not consent to something.

That's why I'm so hesitant to (and indeed downright disgusted by those who) accuse this woman of being malicious, or a liar, or whatever. The reality of even the sober human mind is that memory is an inherently unreliable record of reality - multiply this by a thousand if there are drinks or drugs involved.

I'm absolutely furious and disgusted by the "accusation = guilt" morons who have the gall to call themselves feminists, but the fact that this wasn't rape doesn't necessarily mean that the complainant didn't, under the influence of a mind altering substance, genuinely and entirely innocently believe that it was.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Honest question for everyone here, on both sides of this:

Have any of you ever gotten so drunk that you black out (not pass out - black out as in your memory shuts down for a bit) but instead of waking up the next morning with the fear, you come to your senses mid way through the night and ask yourself "what the f*ck, how did I end up here and what the hell am I even doing right now"?

This is far more common than you might think and this explains how someone might have drunkebly been enthusiastic about something and then suddenly come back to reality and say "wait what? No no no this is f*cked up".

I had one such experience myself a few years ago, I was drinking extremely heavily with a platonic friend and an hour or so later I "resurfaced" and we were making out in her bed. I had no idea how I even ended up in the bed with her and I was momentarily freaked out because I thought that *I* might have started this while she was locked, but she told me she did.

Now the funny (scary?) thing about this is that I later saw a video on a friend's phone of myself very enthusiastically reciprocating with her when she'd been grinding on me before we kissed. Under normal circumstances I'd never have even contemplated getting involved with her due to an already complicated relationship situation with her and another person in our friend group but I had done this - and not only done it, but been fully into it. Yet when I "surfaced" from my drunken haze mid way through fooling around with her, I was like "oh f*ck, oh sh!t, what have I done like???"

I'd never dream of calling that non consensual or anything, and besides I'm very laid back about this stuff so it wasn't like I regretted it enough to be upset, we just laughed it off as "one of those nights".

In that context, I can fully see how somebody might genuinely believe that they didn't consent to something. In this case there's a particularly hilarious video out there somewhere of me trying to do a very clumsy lapdance after she had, and it's very obvious that I'm totally into it. But with different people, under different circumstances, it's very possible that a false allegation might emerge from a scenario like that - without any deliberate malice on the part of the person who believes that they did not consent to something.

That's why I'm so hesitant to (and indeed downright disgusted by those who) accuse this woman of being malicious, or a liar, or whatever. The reality of even the sober human mind is that memory is an inherently unreliable record of reality - multiply this by a thousand if there are drinks or drugs involved.

I'm absolutely furious and disgusted by the "accusation = guilt" morons who have the gall to call themselves feminists, but the fact that this wasn't rape doesn't necessarily mean that the complainant didn't, under the influence of a mind altering substance, genuinely and entirely innocently believe that it was.

I don't wish to antagonise you...but have you looked at who drunk what that night...and asked yourself, what if the lads had so much to drink....