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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

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Comments

  • #1832
    retro:electro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    mayolady14 wrote: »
    No. I chose to bring it up in an anonymous forum to show how reluctant we are to believe rape victims. I have literally no reason to lie. His name is not mentioned and the post was edited so you don’t even know his team or sport. You don’t know when it happened. I didn’t mentioned the Garda station. I have literally nothing to gain or prove and yet still....we can’t believe women when they disclose they were assaulted

    Do you not think this is absolutely ridiculous and frankly dangerous? Why should we always “believe women” on the basis that they are women? Are we too weak to be challenged? Are so feeble minded that we are incapable of lying, or will we faint at the feet of anyone who dare question us? Why?

    You can personally believe her. Like I do. I don’t think she was lying. But at the same time if I was a juror I would leave my personal feelings aside and rule on the evidence in front of me. There simply wasn’t enough to say she was raped, and that’s the reality of it. The correct decision was made.


  • #1833
    baylah17
    Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭baylah17


    sashafierce wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    Because without the Gardai being involved any rape kit would be inadmissable in court.


  • #1834
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    irishrebe wrote: »
    It's not about assuming someone is guilty of rape. It's about NOT assuming someone is guilty of lying about being raped.

    That's some impressive mental gymnastics.

    I don't believe that was the question put to the jury though ;)


  • #1835
    Sidebaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 178 ✭✭Sidebaro


    Mokuba wrote:
    Why would you automatically believe a stranger that you don't know?

    And why would it make any difference to the stranger whether some randomers on a forum believe her?

    What a strange post.

    I think they are referring to rape victims in general not being believed, not this instance on this forum. Having said that, the disbelieving of this instance on the forum is a fair reflection of how it is perceived in the general public.


  • #1836
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mayolady14 wrote: »
    If you told me someone robbed you, I’d believe you. I might not believe who you say it was, but I’d believe you.

    There's a part on the form when you get selected for jury duty that says ''If you feel you cannot fulfill these duties, please respond within X amount of days outlining your reasons for same''. I would suggest you consider filling out that subsection should such a form ever come through your letterbox.


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  • #1837
    Mr.H
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭Mr.H


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    Mayolady, today all women of Ireland stand together. I feel your pain, and I have suffered what you have suffered. It is so important to get as many people to these rallies today as possible. It is vitally important to raise international awareness of human rights abuses of women in Ireland

    You have a disgusting attitude and really need to grow up. Stop dragging everyone into a victim status.

    You didnt serve on the jury for this case so didnt see the evidence. The people that did found the men innocent and that is it.

    Dont make up your own story for this case because the story is, she willingly had group sex. That was her choice. She for some reason cried rape afterwards. We dont know why and probably never will. But in this case there was no rape.

    Let it go


  • #1838
    ArielAtom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,585 ✭✭✭ArielAtom


    I am of the belief that we must uphold our legal systems. If the 4 men are found innocent of the charges brought against them by a court of law comprising of 11 of their own peers then I accept that.
    I do however feel extreme sympathy for all involved in this case. They will never know life as it was before for them. They have all suffered. There are no winners here.
    I am a husband and father and I would not like to tell you what I would do to anyone who harmed my wife or daughter, however I feel the #ibelieveher is all wrong. It smacks off "they got it wrong" and I don't accept it, simple as that. 
    Yes we need to address sexual assaults on all persons and how they are dealt with. But showing your outrage at a court of laws decision is not the way to do it.

    Anyway, hopefully all parties involved get the appropriate counselling that will help them deal with their terrible situations.


  • #1839
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    irishrebe wrote: »
    Nobody is saying they should be automatically believed. But as it stands, they tend NOT to be believed. That is the default reaction. Someone is posting here, saying they have been raped, and look how many people are undermining her, victim blaming and insisting she must be a liar. How can you honestly not think there's a serious problem in this country? I've sent the link to this thread to various friends around the world and they're absolutely appalled.
    Who is "victim blaming" that poster? Point it out please. More let's go to def con one on the jargon.
    mayolady14 wrote: »
    How? If someone tells you a crime happened to them do you not believe them?
    I give them the benefit of the doubt and ask for more details.
    retro:electro wrote: »
    Do you not think this is absolutely ridiculous and frankly dangerous? Why should we always “believe women” on the basis that they are women? Are we too weak to be challenged? Are so feeble minded that we are incapable of lying, or will we faint at the feet of anyone who dare question us? Why?
    That's one of the biggest ironies with current so called "feminism", it promotes the notion that women are not strong, that they're agentless victims prey to emotional overreactions who need safe spaces and near constant protection(ironically from and by men). The poor dears. A notion that wouldn't be out of place in archaic Victorian attitudes to women.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #1840
    ShowMeTheCash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,651 ✭✭✭ShowMeTheCash


    seamus wrote: »
    That's not correct. There are circumstances where you may stab someone to death and you haven't committed a crime.

    This is why you don't seem to get my point. Rape does not occupy some special category where a crime can have occurred but the person who committed it is not a criminal.

    If you cannot prove that a crime was committed by the person, then what they did was not a crime. The legal system has to work that way, it makes no sense otherwise.

    You can always tag the "...but the court may have made a mistake" rider onto any verdict. That's taken as a given, it doesn't even need to be said.

    This comes down to consent....
    You cannot consent to being stabbed you can consent to sex.

    You are waffling making a very poor argument / analogy.


  • #1841
    Uncharted
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭Uncharted


    Sidebaro wrote: »
    I'm not claiming to be clever. I merely claimed you needed to educate yourself on the reasons as to why so few rape victims come forward. Disbelieving them, as you did (almost proudly?), is part of that.

    You're pathetic if you believe an Internet forum is the place to bare your soul and not be challenged on every detail of it. IT'S AN ONLINE FORUM,not a drop in centre for victims. Get a grip. Every female I know would be ashamed of your 'womans' opinions.


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  • #1842
    mayolady14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36 ✭mayolady14


    Omackeral wrote: »
    There's a part on the form when you get selected for jury duty that says ''If you feel you cannot fulfill these duties, please respond within X amount of days outlining your reasons for same''. I would suggest you consider filling out that subsection should such a form ever come through your letterbox.


    I wouldn’t. Like I said, I may not believe who you are saying did it, or believe exactly what happened


  • #1843
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    All across social media platforms people are saying that them being found not guilty doesn't make them innocent.

    If ever there was a trial that showed us why those accused of such crimes as these should not be named in the media, it's this one.


  • #1844
    irishrebe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 612 ✭✭✭irishrebe


    Wibbs wrote: »
    irishrebe wrote: »
    Nobody is saying they should be automatically believed. But as it stands, they tend NOT to be believed. That is the default reaction. Someone is posting here, saying they have been raped, and look how many people are undermining her, victim blaming and insisting she must be a liar. How can you honestly not think there's a serious problem in this country? I've sent the link to this thread to various friends around the world and they're absolutely appalled.
    Who is "victim blaming" that poster? Point it out please. More let's go to def con one on the jargon.
    mayolady14 wrote: »
    How? If someone tells you a crime happened to them do you not believe them?
    I give them the benefit of the doubt and ask for more details.
    retro:electro wrote: »
    Do you not think this is absolutely ridiculous and frankly dangerous? Why should we always “believe women” on the basis that they are women? Are we too weak to be challenged? Are so feeble minded that we are incapable of lying, or will we faint at the feet of anyone who dare question us? Why?
    That's one of the biggest ironies with current so called "feminism", it promotes the notion that women are not strong, that they're agentless victims prey to emotional overreactions who need safe spaces and near constant protection(ironically from and by men). The poor dears. A notion that wouldn't be out of place in archaic Victorian attitudes to women.
    You didn't see the multiple posts telling her how she should have dealt with it? What she should have done differently? Even outright telling her it didn't happen? Please.


  • #1845
    Mr.H
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭Mr.H


    mayolady14 wrote: »
    No one is saying women can’t lie or we should lock men up on the basis for one testimony? If you told me someone robbed you, I’d believe you. I might not believe who you say it was, but I’d believe you.

    A jury member is suppose to look at the facts and the facts alone.

    The facts didnt add up to rape.

    So why would you believe there was rape?

    You said women can lie. So why cant this woman have lied? (I dont think she did myself but I also dont think it wad rape)


  • #1846
    Assetbacked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    irishrebe wrote: »
    I would very much argue that not being able to access abortion, even in the case of rape, and maybe being prosecuted for undergoing an illegal abortion, is very much a human rights abuse and characteristic of a patriarchal totalitarian state. Being forced to carry, give birth to and possibly raise a rapist's child seems quite the human rights abuse to me. What do you consider human rights abuse then, Wibbs?

    What else would make it a patriarchal totalitarian state? You are indicating that this is but one characteristic.


  • #1847
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Omackeral wrote: »
    R1fdEt3.gif

    These people protesting about "women in Ireland aren't safe" and saying "Ireland has let its women down again today" by the court ruling do realize that this was a UK court right? Why are they protesting in Dublin? Its an entirely different countrys court system. The protestors are absolute twats :rolleyes:

    Also the lads were acting the douche the next day with the messages but I think the verdict is right.


  • #1848
    Mr.H
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭Mr.H


    irishrebe wrote: »
    I would very much argue that not being able to access abortion, even in the case of rape, and maybe being prosecuted for undergoing an illegal abortion, is very much a human rights abuse and characteristic of a patriarchal totalitarian state. Being forced to carry, give birth to and possibly raise a rapist's child seems quite the human rights abuse to me. What do you consider human rights abuse then, Wibbs?

    This case has nothing to do with the 8th

    She is not pregnant and was not raped


  • #1849
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Mr.H wrote: »
    You have a disgusting attitude and really need to grow up. Stop dragging everyone into a victim status.

    You didnt serve on the jury for this case so didnt see the evidence. The people that did found the men innocent and that is it.

    Dont make up your own story for this case because the story is, she willingly had group sex. That was her choice. She for some reason cried rape afterwards. We dont know why and probably never will. But in this case there was no rape.

    Let it go

    Amen.

    I was a victim, and posts like this disgust me. Bullsh*t sisterhood claptrap.

    #dontspeakforme


  • #1850
    badtoro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 482 ✭✭badtoro


    I agree with the verdict. Never felt there was enough there to convict of such a serious crime.


  • #1851
    irishrebe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 612 ✭✭✭irishrebe


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    irishrebe wrote: »
    It's not about assuming someone is guilty of rape. It's about NOT assuming someone is guilty of lying about being raped.

    That's some impressive mental gymnastics.

    I don't believe that was the question put to the jury though ;)
    No, it really isn't.


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  • #1852
    ShowMeTheCash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,651 ✭✭✭ShowMeTheCash


    Mr.H wrote: »
    Listen the lads are not guilty.

    The woman either lied or she thought she was telling the truth.

    A lot of people are talking balls about consent and evidence but the fact is they are not guilty of this or any crime.

    Just because some feminazi idiots want to drag this out because "all men are potential rapists", doesnt mean they have any clue what they are talking about.

    Anyone who keeps droning on about this case is not just dragging it out for the lads, but also the woman they think is a victim.

    Let it go. Let all parties move on with their lives.

    Well just playing devils advocate here as your above statement is incorrect.

    A not guilty verdict does not demonstrate she was lying or even that she "thought" she was telling the truth, it merely shows there was not enough evidence to convict.
    Innocents is assumed guilt has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.


  • #1853
    mayolady14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36 ✭mayolady14


    Mr.H wrote: »
    A jury member is suppose to look at the facts and the facts alone.

    The facts didnt add up to rape.

    So why would you believe there was rape?

    You said women can lie. So why cant this woman have lied? (I dont think she did myself but I also dont think it wad rape)


    They don’t add up to rape beyond reasonable doubt. Sure she could’ve, but if she had decided to lie she literally must have decided straight away as she was crying bleeding etc, and texted her friend the next day. Pretty quick turnaround to decide on a massive plot to take down a couple of rugby players with a sore head.


  • #1854
    irishrebe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 612 ✭✭✭irishrebe


    Mr.H wrote: »
    irishrebe wrote: »
    I would very much argue that not being able to access abortion, even in the case of rape, and maybe being prosecuted for undergoing an illegal abortion, is very much a human rights abuse and characteristic of a patriarchal totalitarian state. Being forced to carry, give birth to and possibly raise a rapist's child seems quite the human rights abuse to me. What do you consider human rights abuse then, Wibbs?

    This case has nothing to do with the 8th

    She is not pregnant and was not raped
    In case you didn't notice, I was replying to Wibbs asking what human rights abuses are being committed in Ireland.


  • #1855
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    irishrebe wrote: »
    In case you didn't notice, I was replying to Wibbs asking what human rights abuses are being committed in Ireland.

    This was a Belfast case, and there are some who would argue that abortion violates human rights too - why drag this into another repeal/retain debate. It's got nothing to do with it.


  • #1856
    Sidebaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 178 ✭✭Sidebaro


    Uncharted wrote:
    You're pathetic if you believe an Internet forum is the place to bare your soul and not be challenged on every detail of it. IT'S AN ONLINE FORUM,not a drop in centre for victims. Get a grip. Every female I know would be ashamed of your 'womans' opinions.

    Where did I say I believed that?


  • #1857
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,949 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    mayolady14 wrote: »
    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Again if you felt unfairly treated you should have followed up with a complaint and perused the matter,
    Without sounded cold hearted The Ombudsman is in place to help complaints like this, its the sole reason it is in place  .You decided not to peruse the one route that is there and then complain things need to change ,

    It’s pretty telling that you and others on this tread would prefer to chastise me for not taking things further than be horrified that 1. This happened and 2. A guard did nothing.
    I'm not chastising you for anything,
    I'm telling you if you felt a Guard did not hear your side fairly you should have brought it to the Ombudsman that what he is there for,
    You have said things need to change but there was protocol in place already to help you in such a situation and you didn't use it for whatever reason (entirely up to yourself )
    I would hope any women who feels they are not listened would make sure she goes down the avenues to make sure she is heard fairly,


  • #1858
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #1859
    Luxxis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 141 ✭✭Luxxis


    mayolady14 wrote: »
    They don’t add up to rape beyond reasonable doubt. Sure she could’ve, but if she had decided to lie she literally must have decided straight away as she was crying bleeding etc, and texted her friend the next day. Pretty quick turnaround to decide on a massive plot to take down a couple of rugby players with a sore head.

    Objection your Honor.
    Speculation.


    Sustained.....


  • #1860
    irishrebe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 612 ✭✭✭irishrebe


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Mr.H wrote: »
    You have a disgusting attitude and really need to grow up. Stop dragging everyone into a victim status.

    You didnt serve on the jury for this case so didnt see the evidence. The people that did found the men innocent and that is it.

    Dont make up your own story for this case because the story is, she willingly had group sex. That was her choice. She for some reason cried rape afterwards. We dont know why and probably never will. But in this case there was no rape.

    Let it go

    Amen.

    I was a victim, and posts like this disgust me. Bullsh*t sisterhood claptrap.

    #dontspeakforme
    You were a victim, and yet you see fit to claim another woman 'cried rape', despite not being in that room and having no idea what was going on in her head, whether or not she genuinely believed she had been assaulted. You get to think of yourself as a 'real' victim and dismiss other women as liars. Nice person.


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  • #1861
    Mokuba
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭Mokuba


    mayolady14 wrote: »
    They don’t add up to rape beyond reasonable doubt. Sure she could’ve, but if she had decided to lie she literally must have decided straight away as she was crying bleeding etc, and texted her friend the next day. Pretty quick turnaround to decide on a massive plot to take down a couple of rugby players with a sore head.

    If she is lying then yes, she would have had to get out in front of the other story - when she was caught partaking in group sex.


This discussion has been closed.
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