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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

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    #872
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Are you serious?

    Every lads group on Watsapp has the exact same BS in it....

    So why? Why do some lads need to brag to each other and put women down to feel good about themselves. I shared the media headlines with friends abroad, male and female, and they were shocked at the texts.


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    #873
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,115 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    ahnowbrowncow wrote: »
    Anyone listening to the Matt Cooper show? Four feminists on complaining about the justice system and how it needs to change as a result of this case. He had invited numerous male guests but they all declined. It's hardly surprising when you see what happened to George Hook for speaking common sense.

    This is arguably the most telling. We are going to have wall to wall coverage now on how the justice system is some sort of woman hating creation of the patriarchy.

    What these people want is not justice or equality but a way to make accusations of rape easier to attain and if people are convicted wrongfully, then so be it.

    It is easy to mock the nutty Femnazi's but when they are trying to bend the court system to their own will then people need to take a stand.

    They see everything through the prism of their gender studies class and cannot handle how the real world and real people think and work.


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    #874
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    So why? Why do lads need to brag to each other and put women down to feel good about themselves. I shared the media headlines with friends abroad, male and female, and they were shocked at the texts.

    I don't know, it's some weird bravado thing that teenage boys do. I don't think it's "putting women down" as such - it's more like rap music or something, as a kind of camaraderie thing. It is utterly stupid of course but there you have it. In most cases it doesn't mean anything and a lot of the time it isn't even true. Women do it too anyway with men - I've heard them.

    I guess it's the same reason a bunch of married women get together to give out about their husbands or men about their wives for hours on end. They generally don't hate their spouses but it gives them something to talk about.


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    #875
    dark crystal
    Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    markodaly wrote: »
    This is arguably the most telling. We are going to have wall to wall coverage now on how the justice system is some sort of woman hating creation of the patriarchy.

    What these people want is not justice or equality but a way to make accusations of rape easier to attain and if people are convicted wrongfully, then so be it.

    It is easy to mock the nutty Femnazi's but when they are trying to bend the court system to their own will then people need to take a stand.

    They see everything through the prism of their gender studies class and cannot handle how the real world and real people think and work.

    What evidence do you have for any of this?

    Still waiting to hear who the four feminists on the Matt Cooper show were.


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    #876
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,782 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Paddy Jackson's solicitor on 6.1 in a minute.


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    #877
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    So why? Why do lads need to brag to each other and put women down to feel good about themselves. I shared the media headlines with friends abroad, male and female, and they were shocked at the texts.

    I really don’t understand why people are acting as if the male tendency toward bravado and trying to out do each other in terms of manliness is something new and unusual.

    Far from it - males of any and all species, young males particularly, will always try to outdo do each other to be the strongest, the best looking, the most attractive to the opposite sex.

    Human males are no different - it’s a primal instinct that goes back to our ape ancestors.


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    #878
    Snickers Man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    andekwarhola wrote: »
    I'd hate to be on a jury that has to make a judgement on something like this.

    It wouldn't be pleasant, I'm sure. I was thinking about how I would have approached it had I been on the jury. And the simple realisation was that it was impossible to be nice: whatever conclusion you arrived at, you were going to screw somebody's life up probably irreparably.

    Either you were going to condemn three young men as "nonces" into a prison system where the only people more vehemently self righteous about the issue of sex crimes are those who are in prison for crimes of extreme violence, and a fourth for being a sneaky conspirator in attempting to cover up their acts; or you were going to brand the complainant as at best a regretful fantasist or at worst a malevolent liar.

    So it was important to attempt to establish the facts, as best you could from the evidence; and after that you had to determine whether there was no reasonable doubt that a crime had been committed.

    Not an easy task.


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    #879
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,431 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    professore wrote: »
    I don't know, it's some weird bravado thing that teenage boys do. I don't think it's "putting women down" as such - it's more like rap music or something, as a kind of camaraderie thing. It is utterly stupid of course but there you have it. In most cases it doesn't mean anything and a lot of the time it isn't even true. Women do it too anyway with men - I've heard them.

    I guess it's the same reason a bunch of married women get together to give out about their husbands or men about their wives for hours on end. They generally don't hate their spouses but it gives them something to talk about.

    They were not teenage boys though and that is an important point, there is a huge difference between a moan about the other half ( something I never and have never done as I don't like it ) and what they were saying about the woman.


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    #880
    qwerty ui op
    Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭qwerty ui op


    Who was the woman seen walking with Blane Mcllroy, was it his mother?

    where could I see the the Instagram comments?


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    #881
    ahnowbrowncow
    Registered Users Posts: 2,565 ✭✭✭ahnowbrowncow


    dark crystal wrote: »
    Who were the four feminists?

    BTW, I find it increasingly funny how men complain their voices aren't heard enough and then justify the lack of male commentators on this story (by their own choice) as being someone else's fault.

    Plenty of women who agreed with this verdict too....bit sexist to assume all the male guests would be on the side of the aquitted.

    I don't know their names, you can listen to the podcast.

    I never said all male guests would be on the side of the acquitted, it was a caller/texter to the show that asked why there were no male guests and Matt stated all the male guests declined. My point was that opposing the feminist view has proven fatal for a career in so it wouldn't be surprising that the reason male guests declined the invite was due to holding a different view.

    I don't care what someone's sex is, my point was that there was no dissenting opinion on the show so it was more or less an echo chamber.


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    #882
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    ahnowbrowncow wrote: »
    Anyone listening to the Matt Cooper show? Four feminists on complaining about the justice system and how it needs to change as a result of this case. He had invited numerous male guests but they all declined. It's hardly surprising when you see what happened to George Hook for speaking common sense.

    Ireland did recently have the accolade of being the country with the lowest rape convictions of all of Europe , so do you think it is working efficiently? It needs a massive overhaul. What was the point of this 9 week circus, when everyone knew they were bound to get off. I also think that the accuseds identities should be anonymous. Guilty or innocent, those lads were subjected to a 9 week awful media campaign. What was the point of that either? There are much wider issues that need to be addressed in this area.


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    #883
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,782 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    Ireland did recently have the accolade of being the country with the lowest rape convictions of all of Europe , so do you think it is working efficiently? It needs a massive overhaul. What was the point of this 9 week circus, when everyone knew they were bound to get off. I also think that the accuseds identities should be anonymous. Guilty or innocent, those lads were subjected to a 9 week awful media campaign. What was the point of that either? There are much wider issues that need to be addressed in this area.


    Are you talking about Irl, NI or UK criminal justice system in relation to above?


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    #884
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,348 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Again, to make my opinion clear.
    I think on balance there probably was rape.
    If I had to say beyond a reasonable doubt based on what I've heard then I'd be right on the fence.
    11 people heard all of the evidence for weeks and made a unanimous decision very quickly which implies that for them it wasn't too close to reasonable doubt for those who heard all the evidence.

    An interesting perspective.

    I wonder will she sue for damages. The burden of proof in a civil cases is on the balance of probabilities.


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    #885
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    Stuart Olding has apologised for 'hurt caused to the woman'.


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    #886
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,348 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    Ireland did recently have the accolade of being the country with the lowest rape convictions of all of Europe , so do you think it is working efficiently? It needs a massive overhaul. What was the point of this 9 week circus, when everyone knew they were bound to get off. I also think that the accuseds identities should be anonymous. Guilty or innocent, those lads were subjected to a 9 week awful media campaign. What was the point of that either? There are much wider issues that need to be addressed in this area.

    This case was in the UK.


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    #887
    tinpib
    Registered Users Posts: 4,481 ✭✭✭tinpib


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Neither were the jurors who said unanimously no rape occured.

    The jurors agreed unanimously that the prosecution did not prove a rape occured beyond a reasonable doubt. There is a difference.


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    #888
    MissShihTzu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭MissShihTzu


    He's on now.

    From what I read of the case, I wasn't surprised. Seems Olding is 'sorry for the hurt he caused'. I don't know though - There was never enough evidence to prosecute, and the girl's story was full of holes. That's not to say it happened or not either way, but the evidence didn't seem to stack up. I always felt the men would get off.

    So many rape cases seem to fail. Look at the case of the poor boy in Croydon. He was up on a rape charge that nearly went all the way simply because the girl concerned decided to get him out of spite. Another man in the UK was actually convicted and imprisoned before evidence was found that exonerated him. More and more women are being prosecuted and indeed imprisoned for making false allegations of rape.

    Rape is a serious violent crime, and the fact these cases fail for whatever reason, deters more women who are in this position from coming forward.

    All this has left me feeling very uncomfortable.


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    #889
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,782 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    blanch152 wrote: »
    An interesting perspective.

    I wonder will she sue for damages. The burden of proof in a civil cases is on the balance of probabilities.


    Could the 4 alleged defendents also sue?


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    #890
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    spookwoman wrote: »
    You do realise rape victims can experience an orgasm during rape and also remember a gang of men who were a lot stronger than were in that room, what was it 3 against 1. Not everyone is going to cry out for help, everyone reacts differently. Moan could also have come from the pain of the vaginal laceration

    Initially it was 1 on 1. Then Stuart Olding came in making it 2 on 1. Then Dara Florence came in and left again. Then the 3rd guy came in and she ran out. You make it sound like the 3 of them cornered her in a room and started raping her together. Even her own account doesn't support this.

    Vaginal laceration would not cause a "moan" or "sexual noises" response. That would be more of an "ouch that's sore" response.

    What do you want me to say? I believe every woman unconditionally about rape? I'm not going to say that. Have seen too many liars, male and female, who lie about all sorts of ridiculous and outlandish stuff, in my 46 years. Will I say maybe she WAS raped? Yes. Maybe she was. But I'm not at all convinced in this case.


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    #891
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Ultimately it’s the tommy tiernan theory
    ‘Didja ever raaaape someone?’

    ‘No. It was only aggressive sex.’

    Then The defenders say ‘you can’t rape the willing’

    So it was her fault?

    Such a cluster****. Literally and figuratively.


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    #892
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,348 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    Could the 4 alleged defendents also sue?


    On what basis, and for what?

    The independent prosecuter determined there was a case to answer, i.e. that from the evidence available, one was entitled to form the opinion that there was a rape. The court case was about establishing whether it was beyond a reasonable doubt.


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    #893
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,115 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    dark crystal wrote: »
    Still waiting to hear who the four feminists on the Matt Cooper show were.


    There is a #ibelieveher hashtag trending with all the usual suspects in toe.

    These people are not interested in fact finding or getting to the truth of matters but want to go down the emotional route wether they are right or wrong.

    Superstition belongs to the last century, we don't need to have a justice system bent and coerced into a superstitious belief system based on Gender studies classes.


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    #894
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    mariaalice wrote: »
    They were not teenage boys though and that is an important point, there is a huge difference between a moan about the other half ( something I never and have never done as I don't like it ) and what they were saying about the woman.

    Really? I've heard some awful things said about other halves over the years. Really awful stuff. I don't like it either and don't do it myself.


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    #895
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    I really don’t understand why people are acting as if the male tendency toward bravado and trying to out do each other in terms of manliness is something new and unusual.

    Far from it - males of any and all species, young males particularly, will always try to outdo do each other to be the strongest, the best looking, the most attractive to the opposite sex.

    Human males are no different - it’s a primal instinct that goes back to our ape ancestors.

    Ah always blame the apes.

    Surely if we have evolved from apes, our behaviour evolves too.
    Someone , a man, said to me this week, while this case is in the news,

    'Rape is a very animalistic thing, Im surprised it hasn't died out by now'.

    Are we not getting any more enlightened in anyway shape or form?? :(


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    #896
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    markodaly wrote: »
    There is a #ibelieveher hashtag trending with all the usual suspects in toe.

    These people are not interested in fact finding or getting to the truth of matters but want to go down the emotional route wether they are right or wrong.

    Superstition belongs to the last century, we don't need to have a justice system bent and coerced into a superstitious belief system based on Gender studies classes.



    So you support alleged rapists in one thread but rail against women looking for bodily autonomy and abortion in another.

    You have a problem with women apparently.


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    #897
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,332 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Doctors room ghost wrote: »
    It wasn’t unanimous by 11 for not guilty.jury were told before deliberations that all 11 had to come to a guilty verdict or else they wouldn’t be convinced.all 11 with the same verdict of guilty is what I heard on the radio.was that right as opposed to majority vote

    The news is reporting that the jury decision was unanimous, not in-between so I think the verdict is very clear.

    #IBelieveDara


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    #898
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,381 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    david75 wrote: »
    So you support alleged rapists in one thread but rail against women looking for bodily autonomy and abortion in another.

    You have a problem with women apparently.

    Are you going to keep tagging on peoples views on abortion into this thread?

    This proves the earlier point that some people see all these issues as a single thing where there is only one possible choice if you previously chose "x". There is no borg hive mind.


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    #899
    monty_python
    Registered Users Posts: 1,675 ✭✭✭monty_python


    The case was dismissed due to insufficient evidence

    Different to being found not guilty


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    #900
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Are you going to keep tagging on peoples views on abortion into this thread?

    This proves the earlier point that some people see all these issues as a single thing where there is only one possible choice if you previously chose "x". There is no borg hive mind.

    You were the very first person to even bring that referendum up in this thread funny enough. So it’s ok for you but nobody else? Right.


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    #901
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,400 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Mod NoteKeep this relevant to this thread and don't bring up others. ie the eighth amendment thread.


This discussion has been closed.
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