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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

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    #782
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    There was a lot of that during the marriage equality referendum as well…

    Really don't know what any of this has to do with the trial though.

    It came up because it was noted that on Twitter, some people were conflating the two issues.


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    #783
    Mr.H
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭Mr.H


    david75 wrote: »
    There’s many the cute hoor who would say anything to get away with such an allegation. Including saying they can’t perform and under stage fright.

    Shouldn’t just believe him cos it’s such a display of vulnerability or whatever.

    No but we can believe him because he was proven not guilty in a court of law

    Its also ironic that you seem to be all about a certain side yet use the word hoor


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    #784
    givyjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,287 ✭✭✭givyjoe


    Kivaro wrote: »
    Not if the EVIDENCE contradicted her statements.
    The EVIDENCE in this instance included a woman at the party who gave her account of the scene when she walked into the room.

    This 'your sister, mother..' stuff is completely irrelevant and the most irritating thing that keeps coming into this. Imagining it was someone close to you has got nothing to do with it, which is why a jury not known to either party are the people who decide on guilt or acquittal. Feelings have absolutely zero to do with the evidence.


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    #785
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    dark crystal wrote: »
    Huh? Do you even know what that phrase means?

    Anyway, I had my doubts that the men would be found guilty based on the evidence I've seen in the media, but one thing is sure, if I was raped tomorrow, I think there's very little chance I'd ever have the courage to bring a prosecution after the sh!tstorm this whole trial has been from start to finish.
    When only 1% of rape cases reported actually result in a conviction and your character both during and after the trial is dragged through the mud, it would take a very strong person to take it all the way.

    Yeah, if I was raped, I 100% wouldn't report it. That's the honest truth. I'm a fairly private person and I'd find it even more traumatising having so many people knowing my business.


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    #786
    Pelvis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭Pelvis


    irishrebe wrote: »
    Now we're policing victims' reactions to being assaulted? You couldn't ****ing make it up. I sent a similar text when I was randomly attacked in the street years ago. I was shocked, angry and in disbelief about what had just happened. Thankfully the Gardai didn't use it as evidence of how I must be a lying hoor.

    Calm down ffs.


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    #787
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,287 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    dark crystal wrote: »
    Huh? Do you even know what that phrase means?

    Anyway, I had my doubts that the men would be found guilty based on the evidence I've seen in the media, but one thing is sure, if I was raped tomorrow, I think there's very little chance I'd ever have the courage to bring a prosecution after the sh!tstorm this whole trial has been from start to finish.
    When only 1% of rape cases reported actually result in a conviction and your character both during and after the trial is dragged through the mud, it would take a very strong person to take it all the way.

    If you were raped it wouldn't be like this case where no rape occured.


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    #788
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    All these #IBelieveHer people. If a man close to them was acquitted, would they be saying the same?


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    #789
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    A girl I went to college with would have being up for it.

    :confused:

    This is the second time you’ve said something like this on this thread and I’ve no idea what point you’re trying to make?


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    #790
    razorblunt
    Registered Users Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    Mr.H wrote: »
    No but we can believe him because he was proven not guilty in a court of law

    Its also ironic that you seem to be all about a certain side yet use the word hoor

    Also, he's all for not believing one side, yet others are imploring people to believe the girl for appearing to be vunerable for "having her knickers waved around in court" as one twitter person put it.


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    #791
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    All these #IBelieveHer people. If a man close to them was acquitted, would they be saying the same?
    It would be a brave person to #believeHim


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    #792
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,616 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    I see #ibelieveher is doing the rounds on social media , is this started because of this case ?
    If so how stupid are people, saying they believe a women they have never meet, saw or heard speak, basically just going on reading the paper, Now I'm not saying she didn't get raped but how can anyone not there have any idea of what happened either way ,Starting up these stupid # tags just shows your a moron ,
    We have a legal system for stuff like this and it found the lads not guilty,
    What ever happened only the people there will ever truly know . everyone else needs to get on with the life's as the justice system has dealt with it ,


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    #793
    dark crystal
    Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    pjohnson wrote: »
    If you were raped it wouldn't be like this case where no rape occured.

    You know this how?

    I'm assuming you weren't in the room at the time?


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    #794
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    dark crystal wrote: »
    You know this how?

    I'm assuming you weren't in the room at the time?
    Innocent until proven guilty. Ring a bell?


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    #795
    Katgurl
    Registered Users Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭Katgurl


    francois wrote: »
    Whatever one's feelings about the verdict, their private whatsapp messages, as produced in court, were disrespectful and showed them to have a very low opinion of women.

    I agree but not a crime. Still I'm glad it was exposed.


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    #796
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but I have zero respect for someone who believes in repealing the 8th voting against it because they think someone on the repeal side is a poo poo head. I believe in democracy so if someone was inclined to vote for keep the eight for such a terrible reason, then I have to accept it. But respect it, I won't. It is gobsmackingly moronic. Voting against something you believe in for such a flimsy reason? Mother of jaysus.
    I'm not talking about people who will vote in favour changing their minds.
    It's easy to forget when you're online all the time that a huge number of people don't be. And a huge number are but are in a different bubble. Also older people are the ones who vote. If someone is floating and hasn't made up their mind, let's it's say a guy and the first thing they see from the repeal side is a caricature who opens with patriarchy and male privilege is that gonna win him over? He's switching off. Best case he forgets about it altogether, worst case he's convinced by some God-botherers who come around.
    Again Brexit and Trump still haven't taught the lesson while winning with principles is great some things are too important to lose with whatever your principles are.


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    #797
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Mr.H wrote: »
    No but we can believe him because he was proven not guilty in a court of law

    Its also ironic that you seem to be all about a certain side yet use the word hoor

    I was using vernacular. And not attaching any value to it. But you know that.

    You however..


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    #798
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    dark crystal wrote: »
    So we can assume the girl isn't lying, as she hasn't been convicted of perjury, yeah?
    I believe that she believes she was raped. And I believe that the men believed they didn't rape her. I don't think she is intentionally lying.


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    #799
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,259 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    dark crystal wrote: »
    So we can assume the girl isn't lying, as she hasn't been convicted of perjury, yeah?


    that is really not how it works. To convict her of perjury they would have to prove that she knowingly lied in court. Simply being mistaken is not enough. It is very difficult to prove.


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    #800
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,322 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    retro:electro wrote: »
    :confused:

    This is the second time you’ve said something like this on this thread and I’ve no idea what point you’re trying to make?

    It was aimed at the poster who said what 19 year old woman goes out looking for a gang bang. Some do is my point
    Certain people would lead you to believe only men would.


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    #801
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    This seems like one of those cases where everyone was too drunk to consent. It would be pretty unjust to put all the blame on the guy in a case like this.


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    #802
    Maxpfizer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 496 ✭✭Maxpfizer


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Which is worse?

    a. That some rapists can walk free

    b. That innocent people are imprisoned

    I would offer a slight adjustment, worth considering for anyone pondering this:

    Which is worse?

    a. That some rapists can walk free

    b. That YOU are wrongfully imprisoned


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    #803
    kerplun k
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭kerplun k


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    A girl I went to college with would have being up for it.

    I’ve never met a girl who went out looking for multiple cocks in one go, especially a 19yo, and one who came across so well when speaking about her ordeal when questioned by the defense.The lads crossed the f**king line and they knew it. I’m not saying they are out and out rapists, but they definitely crossed a line.


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    #804
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Kivaro wrote: »
    Not if the EVIDENCE contradicted her statements.
    The EVIDENCE in this instance included a woman at the party who gave her account of the scene when she walked into the room.

    You'd call your own daughter a liar then would you if she went through all this?

    If so, don't ever have a daughter.


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    #805
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,259 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Given that the jury returned a not guilty verdict we have to assume she is lying or mistaken about what occurred.


    Or that the defence managed to create sufficient doubt about what happened. So we dont have to assume either of those things.


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    #806
    sightband
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 670 ✭✭✭sightband


    retro:electro wrote: »
    :confused:

    This is the second time you’ve said something like this on this thread and I’ve no idea what point you’re trying to make?

    it was suggested that it’s unlikely that a 19 year old would go out looking for a spit roast. In response to this the popcorn poster said he knew some tart from college that would be up for it so a wild guess at his point is that there are plenty of sluts out there that will go out for a night looking for dick and maybe even more than one dick. what’s so hard to understand?


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    #807
    C__MC
    Registered Users Posts: 3,066 ✭✭✭C__MC


    Is this the end of it? Can Jackson and co take this any further?


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    #808
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Given that the jury returned a not guilty verdict we have to assume she is lying or mistaken about what occurred.
    I don't think we can assert she was lying. "Wrong" seems to be a more appropriate label.


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    #809
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,259 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Kivaro wrote: »
    Not if the EVIDENCE contradicted her statements.
    The EVIDENCE in this instance included a woman at the party who gave her account of the scene when she walked into the room.


    that same woman also contradicted the evidence of paddy jackson.


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    #810
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    kerplun k wrote: »
    I’ve never met a girl who went out looking for multiple cocks in one go, especially a 19yo, and one who came across so well when speaking about her ordeal when questioned by the defense.The lads crossed the f**king line and they knew up. I’m not saying they are out and out rapists, but they definitely crossed a line.

    You haven’t been out with many 19 year old women then.

    No line was crossed here - at worst there’s was a misunderstanding about consent but that doesn’t make it rape.


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    #811
    Neamhshuntasach
    Registered Users Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭Neamhshuntasach


    kerplun k wrote: »
    Agree with this. Not to mention, what 19yo goes out looking for a gang bang, like she might have been up for something with PJ, and then thinks do you know that this needs, more cocks please, the lads were ****faced and treated her like a piece of meat. I bet each and everyone of them knew they crossed the line the morning after.

    You are unbelievably naive if you don't think girls like that exist at that age. I've come across plenty during my college years and heard plenty of corroborative stories. One being at a party where a girl had a threesome with 2 lads, followed by 2 more lads in a row with a trip out to the kitchen in between asking, who's next?! They exist. And it tends to be girls/women like that men don't respect. Not a thing applied to all women.


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