Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

Bridge93 · 28-03-2018 01:56PM

I couldn't care less about the Rory Best part, it's totally irrelevant and already been dealt with. No need to drag him back in to it

awec · 28-03-2018 01:57PM

From a purely rugby POV If the IRFU do decide to give them the boot then Ulster need to be given carte blanche on finding a 10 for next year.

Zzippy · 28-03-2018 01:59PM

Former Former wrote: »

Deleted post

If you are suggesting a private individual lied, I suggest you do it on another platform where you may commit libel to your heart's content, and the owners of that site are happy to assume the risk of legal action. DO NOT repeat that kind of insinuation here.

There will be red cards and bans issued to posters if this kind of thing continues.

damianmcr · 28-03-2018 01:59PM

Thank Christ that's over.

One thing I'll say is the social media outrage has been disgusting. From both sides.

Anyway I'm an Ulster fan. I have no plans to renew my ST at the minute.

If Ulster announced now they were staying I'd renew.

Former Former · 28-03-2018 02:01PM

Zzippy wrote: »

If you are suggesting a private individual lied, I suggest you do it on another platform where you may commit libel to your heart's content, and the owners of that site are happy to assume the risk of legal action. DO NOT repeat that kind of insinuation here.

There will be red cards and bans issued to posters if this kind of thing continues.

Not the intention at all, post deleted.

jr86 · 28-03-2018 02:03PM

pc7 wrote: »

The law really needs to catch up on this side of social media, its crazy the stuff that was on twitter and reddit etc. I hope all the parties involved can move on with their lives, sadly they will never be the same for any of them. Belfast is a small place, the girl is known, the guys of course known.

Jackson's solicitor said they lost days of the trial due to Social Media nonsense

The "legal issues" days were dealing with that

wp_rathead · 28-03-2018 02:08PM

Synode wrote: »

imo the worst of that that nonsense will pass quick enough. I'd also say they'll get more congrats than abuse.

Synode · 28-03-2018 02:16PM

wp_rathead wrote: »

What are you so confused about

stephen_n · 28-03-2018 02:23PM

Former Former wrote: »

I'd be interested to know a few things. If think about the sequence of events, and what was said, there's some interesting questions to be asked.

I absolutely know he's never going to comment on it. That doesn't mean his actions shouldn't be questioned.

The judge stated that he was there on his legal council’s advise. I fail to see what question he needs to answer for following legal advice. Unless we are working on the assumption the judge is lying or was lied to.

Dubinusa · 28-03-2018 02:28PM

Rory Best has nothing to do with the case. The judge stated he was advised to be present.
What else is there to know?

wp_rathead · 28-03-2018 02:34PM

Synode wrote: »

What are you so confused about

why would they be congratulated?

Synode · 28-03-2018 02:36PM

wp_rathead wrote: »

why would they be congratulated?

For winning the case

P.Walnuts · 28-03-2018 02:37PM

Synode wrote: »

For winning the case

There were absolutely no winners in this case.

jacothelad · 28-03-2018 02:37PM

Synode wrote: »

Why wouldn't they play for Ireland and Ulster again. They're innocent. The case should never have went to trial

They were brought to trial because of who they were and what they were perceived to represent, not because there was a single shred of evidence against them other than being less than gentlemenly. No forensic evidence of any type, a witness who saw consensual activity, no police investigation of the accusation worth a damn. For all those on here who think they should be ostracised and booted out of their livelihood because of this...get a feckin' life and wise up. Should they lose everything they have worked for because of a trial? If you think they should you need to re-evaluate your stance. Go and look in a mirror.

thomond2006 · 28-03-2018 02:38PM

I advise staying off social media until this calms down. There's a lot of venting and moral high horsing going on, from both 'sides'.

A sad case all round. Nothing more to be said.

Former Former · 28-03-2018 02:39PM

stephen_n wrote: »

The judge stated that he was there on his legal council’s advise. I fail to see what question he needs to answer for following legal advice. Unless we are working on the assumption the judge is lying or was lied to.

As outlined above, I'm not accusing anyone of lying, but that doesn't mean there aren't open questions.

Rory himself said he was there because he'd been called as a character witness and "wanted to get both sides of the story" before he testified. Fair enough.

Except he never testified. I'd be interested to know what happened along the line, especially if they end up as team-mates this/next season.

But I fully accept that it's never going to happen.

Synode · 28-03-2018 02:42PM

P.Walnuts wrote: »

There were absolutely no winners in this case.

I'd call not having to go to jail a win. Came at a cost, granted. But still a win and I guarantee everyone that knows them will congratulate them

irishbucsfan · 28-03-2018 02:42PM

Former Former wrote: »

As outlined above, I'm not accusing anyone of lying, but that doesn't mean there aren't open questions.

Rory himself said he was there because he'd been called as a character witness and "wanted to get both sides of the story" before he testified. Fair enough.

Except he never testified. I'd be interested to know what happened along the line.

But I fully accept that it's never going to happen.

I understand where you're coming from, but maybe the fact he wasn't called just came down to how the case was proceeding, rather than anything on his side.

jacothelad · 28-03-2018 02:42PM

$ausage$ wrote: »

Big difference in being found not guilty and innocent

Perhaps you would like to elaborate. Do you have evidence that you withheld at the trial? If not, it would be better not to libel 4 innocent guys. They may have behaved rather less than is palatable but they are not priests of vicars. They are young guys who did what lots do, have done or would like to do. The stench of hypocrisy is pretty awful.

Former Former · 28-03-2018 02:44PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I understand where you're coming from, but maybe the fact he wasn't called just came down to how the case was proceeding, rather than anything on his side.

Yeah, absolutely - and it may be that the publicity around Best's initial attendance just made it impractical to call him as a witness, would backfire again or something.

I'm just interested that's all, in the bigger scheme of things this is a minor enough detail.

joseywhales · 28-03-2018 02:53PM

I did find that calling the Harrison guy a weasel on public record was below the belt considering he did nothing except give the complainant a ride home and reply to a few texts and made an inconsequential slip or two in hours and hours of testimony. That would have turned me against the prosecution. I wonder can he sue the attorney general for slander

28-03-2018 02:53PM

Former Former wrote: »

As outlined above, I'm not accusing anyone of lying, but that doesn't mean there aren't open questions.

Rory himself said he was there because he'd been called as a character witness and "wanted to get both sides of the story" before he testified. Fair enough.

Except he never testified. I'd be interested to know what happened along the line, especially if they end up as team-mates this/next season.

But I fully accept that it's never going to happen.

The extensive media coverage and #notmycaptain campaign almost certainly guaranteed that he wouldn't be testifying.

jacothelad · 28-03-2018 02:54PM

Bridge93 wrote: »

The state will pay it as they took the case

No it won't. Legal aid might have been available to some but not Jackson who would have had too many assets. It might bankrupt some of them. McIlroy also may not be permitted back to finish the last semester of his degree in the USA. They could however sue for a malicious prosecution. They still have an action against the BBC not least for a serious breach of the Data Protection Act in the U.K.

Former Former · 28-03-2018 02:56PM

joseywhales wrote: »

I did find that calling the Harrison guy a weasel on public record was below the belt considering he did nothing except give the complainant a ride home and reply to a few texts and made an inconsequential slip or two in hours and hours of testimony. That would have turned me against the prosecution. I wonder can he sue the attorney general for slander

Probably not because
1. The AG wasn't in court and had no role in the trial
2. No one called him a weasel
3. You can't slander someone during a trial

The Black Stags · 28-03-2018 03:07PM

Concerning Jackson + Oldings mental state. The night at the centre of this happened in June 2016. The police took them in for questioning over the next few days. They've had a possible court case hanging over them for a rape charge since then.
Before the 2017-2018 season where they were stood down. they played for both Ulster and Ireland even with this cloud hanging over them.

jacothelad · 28-03-2018 03:10PM

MJohnston wrote: »

Not guilty does not equal innocent. So many people get this wrong.

It actually does mean they are innocent. The law is 'Innocent until proven guilty.' It's not difficult. Not guilty means exactly 'innocent.'

Dubinusa wrote: »

It's a complete ****show. Although similar incidents have occurred here in the U.S. Kobe Bryant comes to mind. He was accused of rape years ago and after all of the legalities continued his career. It's very problematic for Ulster in particular, as they desperately need P.J.
Obviously, both of them cannot sign elsewhere until released from Ulster and the IRFU. The internal review will probably take several months. We won't know the end result until the summer.
What a mess.

It seems they are going to be tried again by the IRFU. Double jeopardy anyone?

joseywhales wrote: »

I did find that calling the Harrison guy a weasel on public record was below the belt considering he did nothing except give the complainant a ride home and reply to a few texts and made an inconsequential slip or two in hours and hours of testimony. That would have turned me against the prosecution. I wonder can he sue the attorney general for slander

You can't sue for issues or statements brought up in a criminal court. ..Or Westminster or the Dail. If the A.G. defamed him outside court he is just as liable as anyone else.

ClanofLams · 28-03-2018 03:14PM

Realistically the IRFUs main concern here is going to be brand/commercial damage. That’s the world we live in rightly or wrongly. I don’t see Jackson/Olding playing for Ulster or Ireland again personally.

molloyjh · 28-03-2018 03:19PM

ClanofLams wrote: »

Realistically the IRFUs main concern here is going to be brand/commercial damage. That’s the world we live in rightly or wrongly. I don’t see Jackson/Olding playing for Ulster or Ireland again personally.

But that could open them up to legal challenges given that there are no grounds for dismissal or refusal to extend contracts etc. It's a mess from almost every perspective, for every party.

Brewster · 28-03-2018 03:23PM

We have seen the worst of social media in recent times. The #notmycaptain BS was terrible. The jury clearly couldn’t acquit these lads quickly enough, this is the reality, they walked into the court innocent men and left innocent men. What gives anybody the right to question the jury in a criminal trial? It’s astonishing. These people were not in court for 9 weeks listenting to ALL of the evidence. The IRFU should absolutely get behind the two lads, anything else would just add insult to injury. A court of law has found them innocent.

ClanofLams · 28-03-2018 03:24PM

molloyjh wrote: »

But that could open them up to legal challenges given that there are no grounds for dismissal or refusal to extend contracts etc. It's a mess from almost every perspective, for every party.

It could but I don’t really see it happening. Can’t imagine the pair have any great desire to prolong this issue. The IRFU can pay off their last year if needs be anyway.

Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

Comments