Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

Hurrache · 22-03-2018 01:24PM

PaulieC wrote: »

It's not like the car models mentioned are actual SUVs. They are actually perfectly suited to an urban environment.

droidus wrote: »

I disagree, they are far too large
.....
..... small trucks.....

Duckjob wrote: »

these ridiculous looking tanks clogging up the roads

buffalo wrote: »

:rolleyes: Can you offer a reasoned rebuttal to the points argued above?

I'm with PaulieC on this one. I don't own one but I have a car that takes up more road space as it's longer but would be seen as more socially acceptable because it's not thrown into the faux 'SUV' category.

Take 2 of the most common cars on the road, the Qashqai is 4,394mm long, a Renault Megane hatchback, classed as a small/medium car, is 4,359 mm, about an inch longer.

The Qashqai, mirror to mirror, is 2,070mm, the Megane hatchback is 2,058 mm. Only 12mms wider.

But you won't get people complaining about parents dropped their kids off in a Megane hatchback.

This whole thing about classifying one as a tractor/tank,clogging up roads more than other cars is simply untrue when you actually look at the facts, it's all in peoples head, a prejudice if you will.

PaulieC · 22-03-2018 01:28PM

buffalo wrote: »

Does posting your opinions on a discussion forum count as 'forcing your opinions on others'?

As stated above, if such a driver hits a pedestrian, there's a higher likelihood of death or serious injury. That alone should warrant discouraging use in heavily populated areas. And as a frequent pedestrian, it's not 'nothing to do with me'.

There were a lot of things stated above, some of it opinion, some of it possibly fact (no facts and figures to back anything up despite there being loads out there). As I said, I don't see the need for an SUV in an urban setting and I chose my car accordingly.

Stating that suvs have no place in an urban setting sounds more like a statement of accepted fact than opinion.

CramCycle · 22-03-2018 01:32PM

Ray Bloody Purchase wrote: »

I hope for a more inclusive world where SUV drivers can be accepted as normal people too.

I am an SUV driver, not every day but I learn to live with it.

PaulieC wrote: »

No. I shouldn't need to. People have a choice as to what they buy to transport themselves around. It's nothing to do with me what other people drive, as long as they drive safely with respect to other people who use the roads.

Some of them might be considered more difficult to drive safely

12 element wrote: »

To be fair a Qashqai is only 140mm longer and 100mm taller than a VW Golf
Potentially lighter than a Golf too depending on options.

I haven't driven a golf i a long time but have driven a few Quashqais. The size of the pillar in the car is huge, you seem to lose over 25degrees of viewing if you don't move back and forth constantly, something I have never noticed a Quashqai driver doing (not saying they don't). The issue with that car is not the size, it is the poor design and viewing angles.

droidus · 22-03-2018 01:34PM

PaulieC wrote: »

There were a lot of things stated above, some of it opinion, some of it possibly fact (no facts and figures to back anything up despite there being loads out there). As I said, I don't see the need for an SUV in an urban setting and I chose my car accordingly.

Stating that suvs have no place in an urban setting sounds more like a statement of accepted fact than opinion.

I invite you to go and do some research. As I said there's plenty of it out there, and most of it is not good.

Hurrache · 22-03-2018 01:35PM

CramCycle wrote: »

The issue with that car is not the size, it is the poor design and viewing angles.

Problem is that all the posts subsequent to it being told it has no place on the road have all been around the size of it, which apart from height, has no merit in reality.

droidus · 22-03-2018 01:36PM

One thing that hasnt been mentioned but which really annoys me when driving is that the position of the headlights on larger SUV's means that they shine right into the eyes of drivers in a normal seating position.

Hurrache · 22-03-2018 01:39PM

droidus wrote: »

One thing that hasnt been mentioned but which really annoys me when driving is that the position of the headlights on larger SUV's means that they shine right into the eyes of drivers in a normal seating position.

But that's also untrue. And if they do, it's by misaligned lights, not by design. Their lights may be at eye level so you may find yourself looking at them more than you would at another cars lights, but they're not pointed or directed at your eyes.

droidus · 22-03-2018 01:43PM

Hurrache wrote: »

This whole thing about classifying one as a tractor/tank,clogging up roads more than other cars is simply untrue when you actually look at the facts, it's all in peoples head, a prejudice if you will.

Best selling car in Ireland January 2016

Skoda%20Kodiac.jpg

Second best selling car in Ireland 2017, best selling car 2018:

mr spuckler · 22-03-2018 01:44PM

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Maybe it’s just the weather and bank holiday, but this thread has quietened right down since the 1.5m ads on tv. I’ve had a couple of close-ish passes in the last week and maybe it’s jusg confirmation bias, but could it be working already? Have noticed more patience out there. I think.

as others have said, I just don't comment in here unless the close passes are particularly bad.
I do have a parking issue that's really p1ssing me off every day though. on Mespil road just after Baggot st bridge heading westbound, drivers of a couple of cars & vans insist on parking in the cycle lane every single morning, despite the fact that the car park spaces which are just a few yards away (literally less than 15 yards) are all free. it forces me out into traffic at a pinch point. often times they're sat in the cars on their phones.

droidus · 22-03-2018 01:44PM

Hurrache wrote: »

But that's also untrue. And if they do, it's by misaligned lights, not by design. Their lights may be at eye level so you may find yourself looking at them more than you would at another cars lights, but they're not pointed or directed at your eyes.

They're at eye level and are therefore more likely to affect the vision of oncoming drivers.

I really don't see how this is contentious.

magicbastarder · 22-03-2018 01:54PM

CramCycle wrote: »

The size of the pillar in the car is huge, you seem to lose over 25degrees of viewing if you don't move back and forth constantly

my wife is learning to drive and has commented on the size of the A pillar in some cars - even in our octavia, she finds it distractingly large (this was after she'd been for her 12 mandatory lessons with a driving school, in a small car).

the best car i've ever driven for visibility was years ago, in my mum's 1990 rover metro. fantastic for visibilty but i would have been concerned about the roof collapsing like wet paper if it rolled.

Hurrache · 22-03-2018 01:56PM

droidus wrote: »

Best selling car in Ireland January 2016

Second best selling car in Ireland 2017, best selling car 2018:

The Kodiaq wasn't released until some time mid 2017 so it's impossible that it was the best selling car of January 2016.

Out of the top 5 for 2017 you had the
TUCSON
QASHQAI
FOCUS
OCTAVIA
GOLF

so the roads are hardly stuffed with tanks, the Octavia is actually the longest out of that list, and only slightly narrower than the Tucson I would guess.

droidus · 22-03-2018 02:00PM

Hurrache wrote: »

The Kodiaq wasn't released until some time mid 2017 so it's impossible that it was the best selling car of January 2016.

Out of the top 5 for 2017 you had the
TUCSON
QASHQAI
FOCUS
OCTAVIA
GOLF

so the roads are hardly stuffed with tanks, the Octavia is actually the longest out of that list, and only slightly narrower than the Tucson I would guess.

Sorry, your right, it was the Tucson, the article tricked me.

https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/how-the-suvcrossover-boom-is-breaking-sales-records-right-across-europe-and-ireland-34418643.html

droidus · 22-03-2018 02:03PM

Some curious research here:

For 'modern mums' practical considerations score high as does style (56pc).

More than 80pc said the perception of SUVs' good performance "in bad weather, and on bad roads" has become more important.

Millenials see the SUV 'as a symbol of success'.

The survey says: "For 36pc, driving a car that makes them feel powerful has become more important over the past few years, a feature that 45pc most associated with SUVs."

And for "Quintastics" a high driving position has become more important for 81pc over the past few years.

https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/study-shows-irish-mums-are-driving-surge-in-suv-sales-34723605.html

Status, power, position are common themes.

Fighting Tao · 22-03-2018 05:48PM

mr spuckler wrote: »

as others have said, I just don't comment in here unless the close passes are particularly bad.
I do have a parking issue that's really p1ssing me off every day though. on Mespil road just after Baggot st bridge heading westbound, drivers of a couple of cars & vans insist on parking in the cycle lane every single morning, despite the fact that the car park spaces which are just a few yards away (literally less than 15 yards) are all free. it forces me out into traffic at a pinch point. often times they're sat in the cars on their phones.

I highlighted that to garda traffic twitter account quite a few times when I worked in the area. I met the same cars every day. Of course garda traffic are not interested in evidence of the law being broken. They actually give out to people for highlighting breaches to them.

mr spuckler · 22-03-2018 06:04PM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

I highlighted that to garda traffic twitter account quite a few times when I worked in the area. I met the same cars every day. Of course garda traffic are not interested in evidence of the law being broken. They actually give out to people for highlighting breaches to them.

you're right - it is the same cars / vans every day. I was wondering if reporting it would do any good, I guess your experience informs that conversation in my head!

AndrewJRenko · 23-03-2018 09:30PM

homer911 wrote: »

Last night at the Northumberland Rd/Haddington Road junction a cyclist decided to "go" on the pedestrian lights, just as three pedestrians stepped into the road in front of him. Absolute disgrace and the reason why we collectively get such a bad name - cyclists are always jumping these lights but that was the worst I have seen

This morning at UCD/N11 another impatient cyclist decided he could cycle through a red light (parallel to N11) when the lights went green for traffic exiting UCD. The driver pointed at the lights and wagged his finger at the cyclist. Another example of bad behavior that could get the rider/pedestrian injured or killed - come one everyone, we have to do better than this, don't give the other road users an excuse!

I see a lot of bad cycling along the canal at most of those junctions. It's not unusual to see cyclists pushing through bunches of pedestrian crossing. It's not hugely dangerous, but it is fairly rude.

But I don't quite get this 'collective bad name'. Do the motorists on the phone (2nd worst rates of mobile phone abuse in Europe) give all motorists a bad name? Do the motorists who kill 3 or 4 people on the roads each week give all other motorists a bad name?

magicbastarder · 25-03-2018 02:34PM

Heading from the naul to ballyboughal this morning - crested the nags head and was beginning to pick up speed, and a jeep crossed through the junction at full speed, no attempt to slow down. If I'd been another 30m further along, good chance he'd have totaled me.

mr spuckler · 28-03-2018 10:21AM

coming down Haddington rd this morning, just after joining from South Lotts rd, there's a wide stretch at first which then narrows due to the start of a line of parking spaces on the left.
I hear a construction / dumper truck coming up fast behind me, look over my shoulder and he looks for all the world like he's gunning for the space in the road before I get there, there would have been no option but for me to jam on the brakes if I'd waited another couple of seconds before looking and acting. so I immediately took primary position in the lane at that point and he slowed and backed off, but seemed to rev very loudly as he did so. completely needlessly aggressive, particularly (as usual) because the next lights 100m up the road were red.

What Username Guidelines · 28-03-2018 10:56AM

One cycling home yesterday approaching a T-junction. Needed to move into right hand lane so checked for a gap, signalled, and a guy in a Tucson slowed to let me move across just where the single lane splits into 3, two for left and one for right. Gave a wave to thank him and then hear him speed up, he passes on my left and squeezes in last second in front of me to turn right as wel, behind a queue of about 12 cars. He looked very perplexed as I gave him the “what was that” shrug. Then the window came down as he passed me again “what’s your f’ing problem I f’ing let you across” etc.

Alanstrainor · 28-03-2018 11:19AM

I've had a few bad ones this week. Almost all of them involving elderly drivers who seem to entirely lack any spacial or situational awareness.

PaulieC · 28-03-2018 11:26AM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

But I don't quite get this 'collective bad name'. Do the motorists on the phone (2nd worst rates of mobile phone abuse in Europe) give all motorists a bad name? Do the motorists who kill 3 or 4 people on the roads each week give all other motorists a bad name?

Talk to anyone about cyclists and they don't mention the 95% of safe cyclists. All cyclists get tarred with the RLJ brush regardless.

mathie · 28-03-2018 12:30PM

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I've had a few bad ones this week. Almost all of them involving elderly drivers who seem to entirely lack any spacial or situational awareness.

I was recently nearly taken out of it by a guy who must have been in his nineties.
He was completely oblivious as he exited a supermarket car park.
He didn't even look right and I'd to slam the brakes.
I came up beside him at the next lights to ask why he didn't look.
He didn't even hear me knock on his window.
"Hello? Hello?"

A guy walking pase goes "Leave him alone he's old".

I just don't get that attitude.
If people are old is it ok if they nearly hit or actually hit people?

Ray Bloody Purchase · 28-03-2018 12:36PM

I nearly got T-boned by an unaccompanied learner driver pulling out from a junction this morning. She was coming out of estate, didn't look right. I could have ended up on her bonnet or pushed out into traffic.

homer911 · 28-03-2018 01:03PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I see a lot of bad cycling along the canal at most of those junctions. It's not unusual to see cyclists pushing through bunches of pedestrian crossing. It's not hugely dangerous, but it is fairly rude.

But I don't quite get this 'collective bad name'. Do the motorists on the phone (2nd worst rates of mobile phone abuse in Europe) give all motorists a bad name? Do the motorists who kill 3 or 4 people on the roads each week give all other motorists a bad name?

I think its a matter of visibility - cyclists stand out because they are different. Bad cyclists stand out even more, and that's what people remember

queldy · 28-03-2018 04:08PM

On the canal almost got knocked out today by a man looking at the phone on his lap, slowing down the car at around 20/25 km/h, looking at his phone while the car was slowing invading left the cycling lane.
I say almost because in fact I saw his head down, I had time to brake and scream at him.
He changed trajectory, stopped at the queue, started looking again his lap.

I did not confront, and I think this is the first time I do not (usually by blood gets boiling), I honestly just thought "it is hopeless".

Colleague of mine came today a few hours ago almost crying for disappointment in human beings: a van (would you wonder?) swerved left to avoid a few second waiting in lane (due to car turing right), and of course without giving a sh*t about him being on the cycling lane. He had to smash on the brakes; he confronted the driver, and got back a lot of insults and swearing, and the driver removing his belt and going out of the car to confront him phisically.

Only thing I could say, guys, is that I am myself too also pretty disappointed. It is not anymore being angry, or hoping for a change.

Arcade_Tryer · 28-03-2018 07:56PM

PaulieC wrote: »

Talk to anyone about cyclists and they don't mention the 95% of safe cyclists. All cyclists get tarred with the RLJ brush regardless.

And cyclists changing their behaviour will never eradicate that. The problem is not with cyclists, but with those who criticise them. They will always find a reason to criticise cyclists, until they no longer wish to criticise cyclists.

Arcade_Tryer · 28-03-2018 08:04PM

homer911 wrote: »

I think its a matter of visibility - cyclists stand out because they are different. Bad cyclists stand out even more, and that's what people remember

Disagree. People will criticise cyclists for as long as it is their aim to criticise cyclists. They will always find a reason, until it's no longer their aim.

What cycling in Dublin needs is a mass effect, whereby the number of cyclists soars so much that the culture surrounding cycling is changed, and subsequently the critics are forced to change their views due to the changing culture.

Of course it's good thing for cyclists to obey the rules of the road and so on. But to suggest that it is in any way significant in changing the attitudes of those who criticise cyclists seems absurd.

magicbastarder · 28-03-2018 08:44PM

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Disagree. People will criticise cyclists for as long as it is their aim to criticise cyclists. They will always find a reason, until it's no longer their aim.

i posted this in the commuting and transport forum:

because most drivers (most people?) see cycling as closer to driving than to walking. which, to be fair, has some basis in logic - bikes use the road and are subject to many of the same laws.
whereas cyclists probably see themselves closer to pedestrians on that spectrum.

but a large part of it is the 'i'd do the same in that situation' blind eye many motorists turn to the behaviour of other motorists. running an amber or red light, doing 65 in a 50 zone - you're not going to criticise another driver for doing something you know that you do yourself. but for most motorists, there's no 'arrah, sure i do that myself and it's fine' reaction with the behaviour of cyclists, because they simply don't do that themselves. so when they see a cyclist breaking the ROTR, the reaction is consistently negative.

Chiparus · 28-03-2018 08:47PM

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

PaulieC wrote: »

Talk to anyone about cyclists and they don't mention the 95% of safe cyclists. All cyclists get tarred with the RLJ brush regardless.

And cyclists changing their behaviour will never eradicate that. The problem is not with cyclists, but with those who criticise them. They will always find a reason to criticise cyclists, until they no longer wish to criticise cyclists.

Actually think the problem is human nature and queuing. Most people don't mind queuing so long as it is fair.
Nothing worse than being stuck in a queue and seeing others getting ahead of you. People see it as unfair and it makes them very upset.
Next time you are in McDonald's or at the airport, jump the queue and see what happens.

Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

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