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Mark your diaries! Pope Frank coming to Ireland - August 2018

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Comments

  • #32
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,253 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    infogiver wrote: »
    A few posts ago you were going to go as a cross dressing hooker and make a killing ....

    There's a world of difference between a humorous "...could make a killing..." and the above.


  • #33
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    infogiver wrote: »
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26989991
    Is this not an apology?
    I can't see an apology in the text that's quoted there.

    Plenty of "it's not the church" prose alright, plus some pious palaver about it only being a small minority of priests. Plus, that he wanted the church to be forgiven.

    On behalf of the church, he did not accept responsibility for church leaders moving abusive priests around from parish to parish. He did not accept that the number of priests is vast. Nor did he open church archives to researchers or police. Nor did he accept that requiring grown men to swear off legitimate sex might make some of them engage in illegitimate sex.

    His performance was about as convincing as a cream cheese dildo.


  • #34
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    infogiver wrote: »
    Then why are you looking for "paedos" to be extradited?

    Why the inverted commas ?

    I really don't see the issue here. Plenty of people around today suffered greatly at the hands of the church, many still are. Lives were ruined and people damaged. If you are lucky enough not to have been one of them or know one of them I can understand the reluctance to keep going back to this subject but it's only because those affected never got justice in the first place.

    As a Catholic, which I'm assuming you are, can you honestly tell me why you seem so against a proper, genuine, heartfelt apology and justice for the victims?


  • #35
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,133 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The constant lying, deflection and denial on this issue from so-called christians is something to behold.

    Maybe to admit the truth to themselves would bring the whole house of cards of belief falling down, who knows.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • #36
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Why the inverted commas ?

    I really don't see the issue here. Plenty of people around today suffered greatly at the hands of the church, many still are. Lives were ruined and people damaged. If you are lucky enough not to have been one of them or know one of them I can understand the reluctance to keep going back to this subject but it's only because those affected never got justice in the first place.

    As a Catholic, which I'm assuming you are, can you honestly tell me why you seem so against a proper, genuine, heartfelt apology and justice for the victims?
    The inverted commas are because I don't like paedophilia to be trivialised by shortening it. It's very tabloidesque if you know what I mean. The other poster used the expression paedos.
    If you were honest, there is nothing, no words and no actions that the Vatican can employ to make things right.
    The abuse, the cover up, the failure to pay up, it's all abominable.
    The vast vast majority of both Catholic clergy and laity all over the world are innocent people going about minding their own business and not bothering anyone.
    They've been vilified and attacked with virtually no retort for years now by those who have used the churches scandals as a stick to beat them with, but still Irish people continue to flock to the church for all the major family occasions.
    Yes there's an increase in secular weddings and funerals but that's a relief to big extent as the stench of hypocrisy can be intolerable at times.
    The most gobsmacking phenomenon of the rise of the liberal left has been the blatant refusal to accept that if we have freedom of expression and freedom of speech then it must extend to everyone and not just people who agree with you.
    But all this has been said before.
    The RCC will survive, it was atrocious the amount of influence the Irish people allowed it to wield and it's much better for it and Ireland that that's over now.


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  • #37
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,133 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    infogiver wrote: »
    Pope Francis is a very popular figure throughout the world and the leader of over 1 billion Catholics and growing.

    Are the Hotel California catholics like myself, who have long checked out but can never leave, counted among that number?

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • #38
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    infogiver wrote: »
    If you were honest, there is nothing, no words and no actions that the Vatican can employ to make things right.
    Nothing can undo what was done. However, Francis can instruct his bishops to open all archives, without exception, to law enforcement. He could demand that the world's bishops volunteer information to law enforcement. He could perhaps encourage the setting up of a Truth and Reconciliation commission - so that no person can subsequently deny what happened. He could admit fully and finally, that abusive priests were moved around from parish to parish to avoid being caught by police. He could issue a genuine apology, rather than something carefully worded to smell like one. He could permit married priests. He could instruct the previous pope to tell everything he knows. Hell, he could instruct George Pell to go back to Australia and face the music there, rather than avoid it by hiding out in the Vatican or somewhere close by.

    He could do lots of things. And his inaction beyond some intentionally misleading words tells all about the church that one really needs to know.
    infogiver wrote: »
    [...] the stench of hypocrisy can be intolerable at times.
    Indeed, it can.


  • #39
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,947 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    I'm not really wishing to get into the wider discussion that appears to be going on here, but I found the phrasing "legitimate sex / illegitimate sex" unusual in relation to trying to associate the practice of celibacy with paedophilia -

    robindch wrote: »
    Nor did he accept that requiring grown men to swear off legitimate sex might make some of them engage in illegitimate sex.


    And I'm even more bewildered as to what I assume you're putting forward as a plausible remedial action -

    robindch wrote: »
    He could permit married priests.


    I don't believe there's any connection between the two, and I don't think permitting priests to marry would have any effect on the number of paedophiles (both male and female) within religious orders who act on their sexual desires. I believe part of the problem was the impression that because they were thought to practice celibacy, the likelihood of them being interested in any sexual activity whatsoever made it harder for their victims to be believed. I don't believe that allowing for priests to marry would have any effect on the number of paedophiles who act on their desires regardless of their marital status or occupation.


  • #40
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,133 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    infogiver wrote: »
    Yes there's an increase in secular weddings and funerals but that's a relief to big extent as the stench of hypocrisy can be intolerable at times.

    How about the hypocrisy of 96% religious run schools in a country where religious practise is dwindling away hand over fist?

    Or prioritising children of non believing parents who baptised their children for that sole purpose?

    How are you with the stench of that sort of hypocrisy? If you want a more "pure" church then great - withdraw from all state funded schools and hospitals, you can no longer have it both ways.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • #41
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,169 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    How about the hypocrisy of 96% religious run schools in a country where religious practise is dwindling away hand over fist?

    Or prioritising children of non believing parents who baptised their children for that sole purpose?

    How are you with the stench of that sort of hypocrisy? If you want a more "pure" church then great - withdraw from all state funded schools and hospitals, you can no longer have it both ways.

    Ah, but a "pure" Church needs a regular stream of true believers, and what better supply than little children? :rolleyes:


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  • #42
    feargale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,634 ✭✭✭feargale


    robindch wrote: »
    Next August, Pope Frank is going to take off for a six-day visit to Ireland from the 21st to the 26th of August.

    Thoughts?

    Dickie Dawkins won't be happy.


  • #43
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    Ah, but a "pure" Church needs a regular stream of true believers, and what better supply than little children? :rolleyes:

    Doesn't seem to be working. But then there are very few religious on those schools.


  • #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,874 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    infogiver wrote: »
    The abuse, the cover up, the failure to pay up, it's all abominable.
    So maybe the pope could do something about one of those things perhaps? Won't fix everything, but it would help a lot of victims.
    But I guess the church's finances are more important...

    Besides, there's more important things they'd need to spend their money on: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/catholic-church-hired-lobby-firms-block-n-y-kid-rape-laws-article-1.2655010


  • #45
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    All RCC property should have been seized by CAB a long time ago.


  • #46
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,133 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    feargale wrote: »
    Dickie Dawkins won't be happy.

    Yeah the millions coming out to see the pope in Ireland will show him, eh!

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,874 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    infogiver wrote: »
    They've been vilified and attacked with virtually no retort for years now by those who have used the churches scandals as a stick to beat them with, but still Irish people continue to flock to the church for all the major family occasions.
    Also, what do you mean no retort? They have weekly uninterrupted venues where they can say whatever they want to the majority of Ireland (if we are to believe their claims). Is this not enough? What then about the countless catholic publications out there? What about the fact they'll always have a place to retort on the media.
    Or I dunno, maybe they can get some of their apologists to take to the internet...?

    Also, what retort could they be giving that would make them seem any less awful? If apologies aren't going to change anything what could they say that would counter people pointing out the abuse, the continued cover up, the continued attempt to delay and reduce payouts...
    Is it vilifying if it's something you admit that is unforgivable?


  • #48
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    A smiling elderly man who still peddles the same tired old nonsense about sin, transubstantiation, virgin birth, original sin etc etc. Hes just a different flavor of idiot to the rest of them.


  • #49
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Fleawuss wrote: »
    A smiling elderly man who still peddles the same tired old nonsense about sin, transubstantiation, virgin birth, original sin etc etc. Hes just a different flavor of idiot to the rest of them.
    One good thing about this post is that we are now under no illusions what you think of all Christians ... and what everybody else, who doesn't dissociate themselves from it also thinks.


  • #50
    henryporter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,088 ✭✭✭henryporter


    Does this mean that sycophantic Enda can't resign as Taoiseach until after the most venerable's visit? Will we ever get rid of him!


  • #51
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,435 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    51713318.jpg


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  • #52
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    J C wrote: »
    One good thing about this post is that we are now under no illusions what you think of all Christians ... and what everybody else, who doesn't dissociate themselves from it also thinks.

    Lol. The desperate post of a true believer in..... trying to remain "culturally" relevant! Are you a peddler of the dogmas?


  • #53
    looksee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 30,049 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Why would anyone in this forum dissociate themselves from it? If you want people to agree with you go post in Christianity!


  • #54
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 38,133 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    I think it's fair to say that one would have to be more than a bit thick to believe in the literal truth of the bible given that it contradicts many known scientific facts.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • #55
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Seems that Pope Frank did everything he could, and finally announces that he'll be visiting Dublin on 25th and 26th of August to close an event called "The World Meeting of Families".

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/pope-francis-announces-he-will-visit-ireland-this-year-1.3434835

    Clear your diaries or something like that I suppose.


  • #56
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 16,007 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    robindch wrote: »
    Seems that Pope Frank did everything he could, and finally announces that he'll be visiting Dublin on 25th and 26th of August to close an event called "The World Meeting of Families".

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/pope-francis-announces-he-will-visit-ireland-this-year-1.3434835

    Clear your diaries or something like that I suppose.

    Reading the RTE website it seems the full title of the event should read "The World meeting of Families (other than single parent families and LGBT families)"
    RTE wrote:
    Meanwhile, the Association of Catholic Priests has called on Archbishop Martin to clarify why two references to non-traditional families, including LGBT households, have been dropped by the World Meeting of Families from its official material.

    plus ça change...

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  • #57
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    smacl wrote: »
    the full title of the event should read "The World meeting of Families (other than single parent families and LGBT families)".
    The Rebel Alliance are organising "a pre-WMOF public event" in April, if that is more to your taste.
    Or if you just can't contain yourself waiting for the main event.


  • #58
    pauldla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭pauldla


    I'll be flying back to far Cathay on the 20th, just before he arrives. Such a pity.


  • #59
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,797 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    pauldla wrote: »
    I'll be flying back to far Cathay on the 20th, just before he arrives. Such a pity.
    Your disappointment will be exceeded only by his, I dare say. ;)


  • #60
    feargale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,634 ✭✭✭feargale


    robindch wrote: »
    Seems that Pope Frank did everything he could, and finally announces that he'll be visiting Dublin on 25th and 26th of August to close an event.

    Will Dickie Dawkins be coming to protest?


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  • #61
    pauldla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭pauldla


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Your disappointment will be exceeded only by his, I dare say. ;)

    Well he never replied to my invite to my housewarming. Yes, I hold a grudge.


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