Bono and the Taoiseach

John DoeReMi · 21-03-2018 12:38pm #1

An interesting article in this morning’s Daily Mail about correspondence between Bono and the Taoiseach and high level meetings between Bono, Varadkar, Simon Coveney and Paschal Donohoe. Apparently this was to discuss Ireland’s overseas aid etc.

Great news to read about in my humble opinion. To me Bono and Leo Varadkar represent Ireland at its best – intelligent, creative, compassionate, hard working, forward looking. There’s a case to be made that U2 achieve more for this country on a daily basis, in terms of good will abroad and hard cash from U2 related tourism, than most of our so called democratically elected “public representatives” do for the country in their lifetime.

Of course all of this will send the usual hysterical mobs of whinging infantile begrudgers into a tailspin of frothing at the mouth as they sit there, helplessly, trying to sound cool down the pub by mouthing off about how much they hate Bono. The usual inaccurate nonsense about how the great man “doesn’t pay any f*ckin* tax” will be trotted out. Too thick of course to know the difference between personal tax, which Bono pays plenty of because he CHOOSES to remain resident in Ireland, and business tax. (I usually find myself that the ones who scream loudest about the tax issue are the ones who have devoted their life to milking the welfare system in this country for all its worth and will never pay a cent of tax themselves because they prefer the welfare lifestyle to actually, like, working.)

Note to mods: this post is not trolling. It is intended to stimulate robust, frank, discussion on, among other things:

- the cancer of begrudgery which still afflicts this country;
- the contribution U2 and Bono have made to Ireland;
- the intersection between politics and rock;
- the welfare lifestyle. And I make no apologies for using that term. It exists and it’s high time we faced up to the damage it’s doing to our society.

Red_Wake · 21-03-2018 12:50pm

I don't have to be on welfare to think Bono's a cock.

Taking advantage of tax loopholes to avoid paying corporation taxes is hypocritical when he's telling the government to increases overseas aid , which the tax he avoids paying could contribute to.

smurgen · 21-03-2018 12:54pm

John DoeReMi wrote: »

An interesting article in this morning’s Daily Mail about correspondence between Bono and the Taoiseach and high level meetings between Bono, Varadkar, Simon Coveney and Paschal Donohoe. Apparently this was to discuss Ireland’s overseas aid etc.

Great news to read about in my humble opinion. To me Bono and Leo Varadkar represent Ireland at its best – intelligent, creative, compassionate, hard working, forward looking. There’s a case to be made that U2 achieve more for this country on a daily basis, in terms of good will abroad and hard cash from U2 related tourism, than most of our so called democratically elected “public representatives” do for the country in their lifetime.

Of course all of this will send the usual hysterical mobs of whinging infantile begrudgers into a tailspin of frothing at the mouth as they sit there, helplessly, trying to sound cool down the pub by mouthing off about how much they hate Bono. The usual inaccurate nonsense about how the great man “doesn’t pay any f*ckin* tax” will be trotted out. Too thick of course to know the difference between personal tax, which Bono pays plenty of because he CHOOSES to remain resident in Ireland, and business tax. (I usually find myself that the ones who scream loudest about the tax issue are the ones who have devoted their life to milking the welfare system in this country for all its worth and will never pay a cent of tax themselves because they prefer the welfare lifestyle to actually, like, working.)

Note to mods: this post is not trolling. It is intended to stimulate robust, frank, discussion on, among other things:

- the cancer of begrudgery which still afflicts this country;
- the contribution U2 and Bono have made to Ireland;
- the intersection between politics and rock;
- the welfare lifestyle. And I make no apologies for using that term. It exists and it’s high time we faced up to the damage it’s doing to our society.

I'm a PAYE worker and hate Bono,how does that that factor in your worldview? Bono does **** all for anyone except bono.his red foundation has admin costs of 99% and is basically a marketing platform for big companies.He does seems like Leo's type of guy tho.Soundbites and no substance.

Mossy Monk · 21-03-2018 12:55pm

Well done to the OP. Makes a thread about Bono and the Taoiseach but uses it to bash social welfare recipients.

John DoeReMi · 21-03-2018 12:57pm

Red_Wake wrote: »

I don't have to be on welfare to think Bono's a cock.

Taking advantage of tax loopholes to avoid paying corporation taxes is hypocritical when he's telling the government to increases overseas aid , which the tax he avoids paying could contribute to.

It's not that simple though. First of all, U2 isn't Bono. There are four members of the band and they share profits equally. Any financial decision affects Edge, Larry and Adam just as much as Bono. Secondly, U2 are a major business organistion which, in these unstable economic times, employs a significant number of people both directly and indirectly. The history of rock is full of successful bands who went bankrupt because they didn't keep their eye on the ball business wise. U2 could be said to have an obligation to those they employ to run their business efficiently.

Hitman3000 · 21-03-2018 12:59pm

So a guy who moved his tax base outside of Ireland to Holland is telling our government how taxpayers money should be spent. Yeah seems legit.

Arthur Daley · 21-03-2018 1:00pm

John DoeReMi wrote: »

U2 could be said to have an obligation to those they employ to run their business efficiently.

Not to the exclusion of others, or the common good, no.

Hitman3000 · 21-03-2018 1:01pm

Mossy Monk wrote:

Well done to the OP. Makes a thread about Bono and the Taoiseach but uses it to bash social welfare recipients.

Missed that bit, I must have developed an ability to weed out the dole/SW bashing on Boards. If I could only patent the technique....

John DoeReMi · 21-03-2018 1:02pm

Mossy Monk wrote: »

Well done to the OP. Makes a thread about Bono and the Taoiseach but uses it to bash social welfare recipients.

My social welfare comment is about people who deliberately choose to drop out of society because our welfare system allows them to. I'm talking about able bodied people who are perfectly capable of working and contributing to society but choose not to. Welfare is meant to support those who genuinely need it.

Hitman3000 · 21-03-2018 1:02pm

John DoeReMi wrote:

Note to mods: this post is not trolling.

Of course it's not. ; )

gctest50 · 21-03-2018 1:05pm

Bono ? can't even look after his own :

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/bono-charity-one-campaign-bullying-claims-harassment-u2-latest-a8250306.html

Hitman3000 · 21-03-2018 1:06pm

John DoeReMi wrote:

My social welfare comment is about people who deliberately choose to drop out of society because our welfare system allows them to. I'm talking about able bodied people who are perfectly capable of working and contributing to society but choose not to. Welfare is meant to support those who genuinely need it.

How many have dropped out ? Must be a huge number if they are as you claim doing damage to Irish society. Personally I think the policies of this and the pervious government may have done far more harm to our society but that's just my opinion. I suppose it's easier blame those on the margins.

John DoeReMi · 21-03-2018 1:06pm

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Not to the exclusion of others, or the common good, no.

How do they exclude others and damage the common good? What does that even mean? They're a rock band. If they wanted to they could all be tax exiles and spend all their profits on coke and hookers. Instead they choose to remain resident in Ireland and try and use their celebrity to do something worthwhile. For which they are vilified and despised by a large number of people in this country.

Hitman3000 · 21-03-2018 1:10pm

John DoeReMi wrote:

How do they exclude others and damage the common good? What does that even mean? They're a rock band. If they wanted to they could all be tax exiles and spend all their profits on coke and hookers. Instead they choose to remain resident in Ireland and try and use their celebrity to do something worthwhile. For which they are vilified and despised by a large number of people in this country.

That you Bono?

gctest50 · 21-03-2018 1:10pm

To the point that they ( ONE ) were calling organizations ahead of my meetings and media appointments and sent a letter to African NGOs claiming, basically, painting me as a genocidal maniac trying to kill African babies.
To me, that was not really fostering dialogue."

.

John DoeReMi · 21-03-2018 1:11pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

So a guy who moved his tax base outside of Ireland to Holland is telling our government how taxpayers money should be spent. Yeah seems legit.

He's not telling the Government anything. Were you at the meetings described ?

Arthur Daley · 21-03-2018 1:13pm

You know I do feel there is a certain begrudgery towards U2 and Bono in particular. In years to come U2 will be celebrated widely and associated properly with Dublin along the lines of how proud Liverpool is of the Beatles.

But Bono is one opinion. Just a guy with an opinion. It's not a lot more valid than mine or yours, or the other people of this thread. He doesn't help himself in this regard when he holds these private meetings with Heads of government, some very dodgy charachters indeed, such as Clinton, Blair and W Bush. So it's inevitable he will be challenged and lampooned for pushing this One World, open borders agenda, and conspiring with people that are effectively seen as war criminals by large swathes of the populace.

I still buy their music, and go to their live shows.

Sidebaro · 21-03-2018 1:17pm

There are some people who have genuine reasons for disliking Bono and then there's people who dislike him for silly reasons or because it's 'cool' to. I think it's the same with all celebrities but Bono is A List and Irish so we hear about it more.

John DoeReMi · 21-03-2018 1:18pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

How many have dropped out ? Must be a huge number if they are as you claim doing damage to Irish society. Personally I think the policies of this and the pervious government may have done far more harm to our society but that's just my opinion. I suppose it's easier blame those on the margins.

I don't have stats. But I personally know three individuals who've dropped out to live the lifestyle. We all know it's going on. It's not healthy for any society to promote the idea that you can simply drop out and live off everyone else's work.

The massive amount of welfare expenditure in this country was a contributory factor in the most recent economic catastrophe Fianna Fail inflicted on the country. It's high time we had a debate about welfare.

smurgen · 21-03-2018 1:18pm

Did Bono and Leo ever discuss the crisis in our health service or is that too unsexy as a cause?

John DoeReMi · 21-03-2018 1:23pm

Arthur Daley wrote: »

You know I do feel there is a certain begrudgery towards U2 and Bono in particular. In years to come U2 will be celebrated widely and associated properly with Dublin along the lines of how proud Liverpool is of the Beatles.

But Bono is one opinion. Just a guy with an opinion. It's not a lot more valid than mine or yours, or the other people of this thread. He doesn't help himself in this regard when he holds these private meetings with Heads of government, some very dodgy charachters indeed, such as Clinton, Blair and W Bush. So it's inevitable he will be challenged and lampooned for pushing this One World, open borders agenda, and conspiring with people that are effectively seen as war criminals by large swathes of the populace.

I still buy their music, and go to their live shows.

Good points, well made. Re Bush, Clinton etc: these are world leaders and the fact is that if you want to effect real change - which Bono does - these are the people you have to influence. Bono is well aware of the fact that many people have a problem with Blair and Bush in particular over Iraq. He's on record as saying that he thinks it's justified to meet whoever he needs to meet to achieve his aims.

John DoeReMi · 21-03-2018 1:26pm

smurgen wrote: »

Did Bono and Leo ever discuss the crisis in our health service or is that too unsexy as a cause?

Actually Bono did make comments onstage back in 1987 about the health service crisis. This was at a time when 4,000 beds were taken out of the service in order to try and put the country back on the rails after the first time Fianna Fail bankrupted the country in the early 80's.

Thomas__. · 21-03-2018 1:27pm

John DoeReMi wrote: »

An interesting article in this morning’s Daily Mail about correspondence between Bono and the Taoiseach and high level meetings between Bono, Varadkar, Simon Coveney and Paschal Donohoe. Apparently this was to discuss Ireland’s overseas aid etc.

Great news to read about in my humble opinion. To me Bono and Leo Varadkar represent Ireland at its best – intelligent, creative, compassionate, hard working, forward looking. There’s a case to be made that U2 achieve more for this country on a daily basis, in terms of good will abroad and hard cash from U2 related tourism, than most of our so called democratically elected “public representatives” do for the country in their lifetime.

Of course all of this will send the usual hysterical mobs of whinging infantile begrudgers into a tailspin of frothing at the mouth as they sit there, helplessly, trying to sound cool down the pub by mouthing off about how much they hate Bono. The usual inaccurate nonsense about how the great man “doesn’t pay any f*ckin* tax” will be trotted out. Too thick of course to know the difference between personal tax, which Bono pays plenty of because he CHOOSES to remain resident in Ireland, and business tax. (I usually find myself that the ones who scream loudest about the tax issue are the ones who have devoted their life to milking the welfare system in this country for all its worth and will never pay a cent of tax themselves because they prefer the welfare lifestyle to actually, like, working.)

Note to mods: this post is not trolling. It is intended to stimulate robust, frank, discussion on, among other things:

- the cancer of begrudgery which still afflicts this country;
- the contribution U2 and Bono have made to Ireland;
- the intersection between politics and rock;
- the welfare lifestyle. And I make no apologies for using that term. It exists and it’s high time we faced up to the damage it’s doing to our society.

I acknowledge what he has done and still does to make the world a better place, still I think that your post is a bit exaggerated. I am not that sure that he does it all for Ireland, but more sure that he does it for the sake of a better life for humans in areas where they are not so well off like here.

Hitman3000 · 21-03-2018 1:27pm

John DoeReMi wrote:

He's not telling the Government anything. Were you at the meetings described ?

Equally were you? So I can make a supposition as can you we both may be wrong or right. Leo of course can put the conversation up on his Twitter account with Bono's permission of course.

Hitman3000 · 21-03-2018 1:29pm

John DoeReMi wrote:

I don't have stats. But I personally know three individuals who've dropped out to live the lifestyle. We all know it's going on. It's not healthy for any society to promote the idea that you can simply drop out and live off everyone else's work.

So you're just guessing when you could have said 'I have no idea how many but I think there are lots'. Grand so.

Arthur Daley · 21-03-2018 1:35pm

John DoeReMi wrote: »

How do they exclude others and damage the common good? What does that even mean? They're a rock band. If they wanted to they could all be tax exiles and spend all their profits on coke and hookers. Instead they choose to remain resident in Ireland and try and use their celebrity to do something worthwhile. For which they are vilified and despised by a large number of people in this country.

When you talk about running things 'efficiently' for the benefit of employees, I take it to mean tax avoidance measures. Of course people will say this is all very legal, and we are sure it is. But for most people it stinks, and while something may be in the letter of the law, it is the spirit of the law that people are often referring to. Most people don't approve of tax planning measures to offshore incomes, and certainly not when the same person is lecturing us about transferring more taxpayers money to foreign aid budgets.

Hiding behind how many people you employ to justify this behaviour is disingenuous for many people.

James Brown · 21-03-2018 2:01pm

John DoeReMi wrote: »

An interesting article in this morning’s Daily Mail about correspondence between Bono and the Taoiseach and high level meetings between Bono, Varadkar, Simon Coveney and Paschal Donohoe. Apparently this was to discuss Ireland’s overseas aid etc.

Great news to read about in my humble opinion. To me Bono and Leo Varadkar represent Ireland at its best – intelligent, creative, compassionate, hard working, forward looking. There’s a case to be made that U2 achieve more for this country on a daily basis, in terms of good will abroad and hard cash from U2 related tourism, than most of our so called democratically elected “public representatives” do for the country in their lifetime.

Of course all of this will send the usual hysterical mobs of whinging infantile begrudgers into a tailspin of frothing at the mouth as they sit there, helplessly, trying to sound cool down the pub by mouthing off about how much they hate Bono. The usual inaccurate nonsense about how the great man “doesn’t pay any f*ckin* tax” will be trotted out. Too thick of course to know the difference between personal tax, which Bono pays plenty of because he CHOOSES to remain resident in Ireland, and business tax. (I usually find myself that the ones who scream loudest about the tax issue are the ones who have devoted their life to milking the welfare system in this country for all its worth and will never pay a cent of tax themselves because they prefer the welfare lifestyle to actually, like, working.)

Note to mods: this post is not trolling. It is intended to stimulate robust, frank, discussion on, among other things:

- the cancer of begrudgery which still afflicts this country;
- the contribution U2 and Bono have made to Ireland;
- the intersection between politics and rock;
- the welfare lifestyle. And I make no apologies for using that term. It exists and it’s high time we faced up to the damage it’s doing to our society.

With all due respected your post is delusional and reads like a Trumpesque vehicle to get a dig in at your fellow countrymen/women who aren't on your particular political song.

Ironic to slag off the working poor and the sick in your own country to applaud a billionaires charitable works abroad. A billionaire who's pal The Edge stood up and declared that their hotel, The Clarence, should be exempt from paying tax due to all the tourism U2 brings to the country.
As regards Bono, he makes profit on his charity works. Bono charity money is 'Better than a kick in the arse' as they saying goes, but it's believed this, the true poverty industry (where multinationals make profit), actually helps to maintain the need for charity when people generally want to help themselves.

There is an award winning documentary, 'Poverty Inc.' which has a whole section about Bono and the damage he does.

"I see multiple colonial governors," says Ghanaian software entrepreneur Herman Chinery-Hesse of the international development establishment. "We are held captive by the donor community."

The West has made itself the protagonist of development, giving rise to a multibillion dollar poverty industry.
https://www.povertyinc.org/

More billionaires does not mean greater wealth for everyone. And the current economic system we adhere to does just that. As regards Fine Gael economics; If We live on a street and I'm a billionaire, that means our street is doing great economically, but you, my neighbour and others on the street might be eating cold beans right out of the tin for your dinner, but we can claim the economy of our street is strong.
This is the issue with the polices of Leo Varadkar. 'Sure homelessness is bad, but elsewhere is worse' etc. We see millions squandered and he runs a campaign against welfare fraud. We have Rothchild replace Merrill as the states financial adviser; Rothchild turned out to be a major Anglo bond holder. We've vulture funds profiting off the misery of the people and paying little tax for the privilege, but y'know 'dem that won't work'.

Alas ignorance is bliss.

John DoeReMi · 21-03-2018 2:02pm

Arthur Daley wrote: »

When you talk about running things 'efficiently' for the benefit of employees, I take it to mean tax avoidance measures. Of course people will say this is all very legal, and we are sure it is. But for most people it stinks, and while something may be in the letter of the law, it is the spirit of the law that people are often referring to. Most people don't approve of tax planning measures to offshore incomes, and certainly not when the same person is lecturing us about transferring more taxpayers money to foreign aid budgets.

Hiding behind how many people you employ to justify this behaviour is disingenuous for many people.

I'd love to know where these lectures that everybody accuses Bono of take place. I'm going to U2 concerts in Ireland and abroad for 40 years. I've read countless interviews with the man. I've never heard him tell anyone they should do this or they should do that. I have heard him make comments about issues he cares passionately about.

When you scratch the surface of most people's dislike of Bono, the root cause has nothing to do with tax or anything else. It's the fact that he's rich and famous and he doesn't play the game you're supposed to play in this country. The one where you pretend to be really "down to earth" and "a man of the people". Like Bertie Ahern. "Ah look at me, I love a pint and bit o' the oul GAA". Irish people are never happier than when they're sneering at each other. I've seen it my whole life, I've been on the receiving end of it and I'm sick of it.

For all our progress and patting ourselves on the back about how wonderful we are, there's still a strain of ignorance and anti-intellectualism in this country. Our attitude to Bono says a lot about the country. We elect corrupt politicians and political parties we KNOW are rotten with corruption from the top to the bottom. Then sneer at Bono for some alleged wrongdoing or hypocrisy.

david75 · 21-03-2018 2:07pm

OP I’d love you to go apply for social welfare, see how almost impossible they make it to actually get on jobseekers, then explore what kind of ‘lifestyle’ €188 a week affords you.

You’re either innocently ignorant of how dismal an existence it is trying to get by on that or you’re the opposite and hate poor people. Given your admiration for leo I can probably make a guess which it is.

John DoeReMi · 21-03-2018 2:13pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

With all due respected your post is delusional and reads like a Trumpesque vehicle to get a dig in at your fellow countrymen/women who aren't on your particular political song.

Ironic to slag off the working poor and the sick in your own country to applaud a billionaires charitable works abroad. A billionaire who's pal The Edge stood up and declared that their hotel, The Clarence, should be exempt from paying tax due to all the tourism U2 brings to the country.
As regards Bono, he makes profit on his charity works. Bono charity money is 'Better than a kick in the arse' as they saying goes, but it's believed this, the true poverty industry (where multinationals make profit), actually helps to maintain the need for charity when people generally want to help themselves.

There is an award winning documentary, 'Poverty Inc.' which has a whole section about Bono and the damage he does.

More billionaires does not mean greater wealth for everyone. And the current economic system we adhere to does just that. As regards Fine Gael economics; If We live on a street and I'm a billionaire, that means our street is doing great economically, but you, my neighbour and others on the street might be eating cold beans right out of the tin for your dinner, but we can claim the economy of our street is strong.
This is the issue with the polices of Leo Varadkar. 'Sure homelessness is bad, but elsewhere is worse' etc. We see millions squandered and he runs a campaign against welfare fraud. We have Rothchild replace Merrill as the states financial adviser; Rothchild turned out to be a major Anglo bond holder. We've vulture funds profiting off the misery of the people and paying little tax for the privilege, but y'know 'dem that won't work'.

Alas ignorance is bliss.

Nowhere in any of my welfare comments, which I clarified earlier, have I slagged off genuine welfare claimants.

Your points about foreign aid are all valid and I'd agree with a lot of them. I have no problem with people who have a genuine concern about Bono's activities and wants to debate them in an adult fashion. My problem is that it's gone too far now in this country with the Bono hate. There's almost a national consensus that he's an ogre. I am, in fairness, more conscious of this than most because I'm a fan of the band. I don't go around shouting about how much I love them, but it 's now got to a point where I actually have to hide the fact that I'm a fan because of people jumping down my throat. At a recent social event I was at I was introduced to a couple of guys and we got into conversation. I mentioned, casually, that I was trying to get a ticket for their Irish gigs later this year. The words were barely out of my mouth when one of them starts mouthing off about the tax thing. I just walked away.

John DoeReMi · 21-03-2018 2:17pm

david75 wrote: »

OP I’d love you to go apply for social welfare, see how almost impossible they make it to actually get on jobseekers, then explore what kind of ‘lifestyle’ €188 a week affords you.

You’re either innocently ignorant of how dismal an existence it is trying to get by on that or you’re the opposite and hate poor people. Given your admiration for leo I can probably make a guess which it is.

As I believe I mentioned earlier, I personally know three people - friends of mine - who have actively chosen not to work because they can earn more on welfare and get a nice apartment from the council etc. I also have a close friend who worked for years, then had an accident and can't work, and is now on the verge of becoming homeless because she can't get the help she needs. Never having learned how to game the system you see.

James Brown · 21-03-2018 2:30pm

John DoeReMi wrote: »

Nowhere in any of my welfare comments, which I clarified earlier, have I slagged off genuine welfare claimants.

Your points about foreign aid are all valid and I'd agree with a lot of them. I have no problem with people who have a genuine concern about Bono's activities and wants to debate them in an adult fashion. My problem is that it's gone too far now in this country with the Bono hate. There's almost a national consensus that he's an ogre. I am, in fairness, more conscious of this than most because I'm a fan of the band. I don't go around shouting about how much I love them, but it 's now got to a point where I actually have to hide the fact that I'm a fan because of people jumping down my throat. At a recent social event I was at I was introduced to a couple of guys and we got into conversation. I mentioned, casually, that I was trying to get a ticket for their Irish gigs later this year. The words were barely out of my mouth when one of them starts mouthing off about the tax thing. I just walked away.

Well maybe you should have led with, 'the great, vast majority of those on welfare are deserving, hard working people, but there is a minority who take advantage.'
Watch the Poverty Inc. doc or look up the Bono portion on youtube.
I may think Bono is a tit, but I enjoyed going to see the Joshua Tree gig. Might you have hitched Bono's blood diamond encrusted wagon to Leo's dull star just to get your pro bono work into the politics forum?

McMurphy · 21-03-2018 2:36pm

John DoeReMi wrote: »

Actually Bono did make comments onstage back in 1987 about the health service crisis. This was at a time when 4,000 beds were taken out of the service in order to try and put the country back on the rails after the first time Fianna Fail bankrupted the country in the early 80's.

31 years ago, yeah?

John DoeReMi · 21-03-2018 2:43pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Well maybe you should have led with, 'the great, vast majority of those on welfare are deserving, hard working people, but there is a minority who take advantage.'
Watch the Poverty Inc. doc or look up the Bono portion on youtube.
I may think Bono is a tit, but I enjoyed going to see the Joshua Tree gig. Might you have hitched Bono's blood diamond encrusted wagon to Leo's dull star just to get your pro bono work into the politics forum?

I don't believe I should have to state the obvious. My comments referred to the kind of knuckle draggers you find in pubs the length and breadth of the country.

Nicely worded slag off in the second paragraph there.

Who knows, we may end up beside each other at a future gig.

John DoeReMi · 21-03-2018 2:46pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

31 years ago, yeah?

Actually he paid tribute to front line health service workers more recently, but your point is meaningless anyway. The problems of the health service in this country exist because the Irish people allow them to exist. As evidenced by their voting patterns.

david75 · 21-03-2018 2:48pm

John DoeReMi wrote: »

Actually he paid tribute to front line health service workers more recently, but your point is meaningless anyway. The problems of the health service in this country exist because the Irish people allow them to exist. As evidenced by their voting patterns.

Your hero Leo did an appalling job when he had the ministry. So you’re kinda undermining your own point here.

James Brown · 21-03-2018 3:08pm

John DoeReMi wrote: »

I don't believe I should have to state the obvious. My comments referred to the kind of knuckle draggers you find in pubs the length and breadth of the country.

Nicely worded slag off in the second paragraph there. Who knows, we may end up beside each other at a future gig.

You are selling right wing PR spin. I'm not sure if you realise that or not. The way you word and present your 'findings' might lead one to believe welfare fraud is endemic and a major causal contributor to the real life problems facing Irish people, above and beyond the generational poor policies and cronyism metered out by the Fianna Fail and Fine Gael parties.

All fraud against the state should be rooted out, but to paraphrase Leo, there's others doing worse. Much worse.

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

31 years ago, yeah?

It's still going on, to be fair......(how long must we sing this song?). What's needed is someone like Leo put in charge of health

Franz Von Peppercorn · 21-03-2018 3:12pm

david75 wrote: »

Your hero Leo did an appalling job when he had the ministry. So you’re kinda undermining your own point here.

Without dismantling the system and starting again nobody is going to do good there.

James Brown · 21-03-2018 3:14pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Without dismantling the system and starting again nobody is going to do good there.

Agreed. Kenny blew his shot and Leo might talk about it needing to be done something something...

McMurphy · 21-03-2018 3:14pm

John DoeReMi wrote: »

Actually he paid tribute to front line health service workers more recently, but your point is meaningless anyway. The problems of the health service in this country exist because the Irish people allow them to exist. As evidenced by their voting patterns.

My point is far from meaningless.

Your own post stated that bono commented on the state of the 'health system crisis'back in 1987.

Things have not improved, in fact I recall reading that the health crisis had hit an all time high fairly recently, during Leo's tenure as health minister and as Taoiseach.

Just today I was reading that things have got so bad that hot food has had to be stopped from being served to people languishing on trolleys.

In 2018.

Whats the latest from Bono on that I wonder?

John DoeReMi · 21-03-2018 4:46pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

My point is far from meaningless.

Your own post stated that bono commented on the state of the 'health system crisis'back in 1987.

Things have not improved, in fact I recall reading that the health crisis had hit an all time high fairly recently, during Leo's tenure as health minister and as Taoiseach.

Just today I was reading that things have got so bad that hot food has had to be stopped from being served to people languishing on trolleys.

In 2018.

Whats the latest from Bono on that I wonder?

To the best of my knowledge, Bono has never actually held the position of Minister for Health. So why you keep banging on about the health service and Bono baffles me.

The problems of the health service exist because health is an area with more powerful vested interests and competing factions than possibly any other area of human activity bar the arms dealing trade. In this country we have a situation where every single health service employee from the richest consultant down to the minimum wage cleaner has their trade union or some other form of representative association behind them. All of whom refuse to take part in any meaningful reform of the system until they've been bought off with pay increases or some other sweetener. That's just one piece of the puzzle. Then you have the gombeen politicians who refuse to accept that we can't have a hospital in every hamlet and an ambulance at the end of every driveway and who will block badly needed reforms if their local service is threatened. Then of course we have the media. Who have a vested interest in the service being a disaster (which it isn't by any means) and who will only publish the most hysterical horror stories - often grossly exagerated - day after day, which leads Joe and Jane Public to think that every hospital in Ireland is a war zone. Which it isn't. This by the way can deter people from wanting to join the health service in the first place, which in turn means that hospitals can't get the staff they need....and so on and so on.

None of which has even the slightest thing whatsoever to do with Bono of course, but don't let that get in the way of some infantile student Socialist Worker ranting. And for the record, I was once an infantile Socialist Worker supporter myself. Then I went into the real world and grew up.

david75 · 21-03-2018 4:49pm

You set up a new boards account just to post all this?

What’s your point exactly?

Bono is wonderful and people on social welfare are all bad?

LoughNeagh2017 · 25-03-2018 1:15am

At least Bono is an island nationalist, a Protestant too, the orange people would like him.

FrancieBrady · 25-03-2018 1:34am

It would be refreshing to see Leo do a favour for someone who isn't a million/billionaire though.
Like my relative who lay on a trolley in hospital for two nights last week.

It's the cringe inducing PR they try to extract out of meetings like these that annoys.

recedite · 25-03-2018 11:10pm

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

At least Bono is an island nationalist, a Protestant too, the orange people would like him.

Whats "an island nationalist"?

Thomas__. · 26-03-2018 8:23am

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

At least Bono is an island nationalist, a Protestant too, the orange people would like him.

They certainly dislike his song of Bloody Sunday. Therefore I doubt what you say about him being liked by the Dinosaurs of NI.

evolving_doors · 26-03-2018 8:30am

John DoeReMi wrote: »

My social welfare comment is about people who deliberately choose to drop out of society because our welfare system allows them to. I'm talking about able bodied people who are perfectly capable of working and contributing to society but choose not to. Welfare is meant to support those who genuinely need it.

that's bono

blanch152 · 26-03-2018 9:19am

Thomas__. wrote: »

They certainly dislike his song of Bloody Sunday. Therefore I doubt what you say about him being liked by the Dinosaurs of NI.

Who dislikes his song of Bloody Sunday?

It has been misunderstood by a lot of people. It is basically an anti-terrorist and anti-violence song.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_Bloody_Sunday

"And let me tell you somethin'. I've had enough of Irish Americans who haven't been back to their country in twenty or thirty years come up to me and talk about the resistance, the revolution back home...and the glory of the revolution...and the glory of dying for the revolution. **** the revolution! They don't talk about the glory of killing for the revolution. What's the glory in taking a man from his bed and gunning him down in front of his wife and his children? Where's the glory in that? Where's the glory in bombing a Remembrance Day parade of old age pensioners, their medals taken out and polished up for the day. Where's the glory in that? To leave them dying or crippled for life or dead under the rubble of a revolution that the majority of the people in my country don't want. No more."

This is an anti-IRA song, an anti-UDA song, highlighting the futility of terrorism.

FrancieBrady · 26-03-2018 10:28am

blanch152 wrote: »

Who dislikes his song of Bloody Sunday?

It has been misunderstood by a lot of people. It is basically an anti-terrorist and anti-violence song.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_Bloody_Sunday

"And let me tell you somethin'. I've had enough of Irish Americans who haven't been back to their country in twenty or thirty years come up to me and talk about the resistance, the revolution back home...and the glory of the revolution...and the glory of dying for the revolution. **** the revolution! They don't talk about the glory of killing for the revolution. What's the glory in taking a man from his bed and gunning him down in front of his wife and his children? Where's the glory in that? Where's the glory in bombing a Remembrance Day parade of old age pensioners, their medals taken out and polished up for the day. Where's the glory in that? To leave them dying or crippled for life or dead under the rubble of a revolution that the majority of the people in my country don't want. No more."

This is an anti-IRA song, an anti-UDA song, highlighting the futility of terrorism.

The song was supposed to be about Bloody Sunday in Derry.

It is anti violence in general and, sadly, like most people in 1983 it had no practical solutions to stop the violence.

But all hail Bono the peacemaker.

He attributes the song to the Edge by the way, as he merely rewrote and restructured the song.

AlanG · 26-03-2018 10:45am

Don't forget Bono is a businessman first and musician second. He has made far more profit from Facebook and property than from music, so these reports should be about a Facebook investor meeting government officials. In 2011 their share of Facebook was already worth about 1 billion.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/ireland-business-blog-with-lisa-ocarroll/2011/aug/16/u2-bono-facebook-stake

Thomas__. · 26-03-2018 11:26am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

blanch152 wrote: »

Who dislikes his song of Bloody Sunday?

It has been misunderstood by a lot of people. It is basically an anti-terrorist and anti-violence song.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_Bloody_Sunday

"And let me tell you somethin'. I've had enough of Irish Americans who haven't been back to their country in twenty or thirty years come up to me and talk about the resistance, the revolution back home...and the glory of the revolution...and the glory of dying for the revolution. **** the revolution! They don't talk about the glory of killing for the revolution. What's the glory in taking a man from his bed and gunning him down in front of his wife and his children? Where's the glory in that? Where's the glory in bombing a Remembrance Day parade of old age pensioners, their medals taken out and polished up for the day. Where's the glory in that? To leave them dying or crippled for life or dead under the rubble of a revolution that the majority of the people in my country don't want. No more."

This is an anti-IRA song, an anti-UDA song, highlighting the futility of terrorism.

The song was supposed to be about Bloody Sunday in Derry.

It is anti violence in general and, sadly, like most people in 1983 it had no practical solutions to stop the violence.

But all hail Bono the peacemaker.

He attributes the song to the Edge by the way, as he merely rewrote and restructured the song.

I'm more indifferent to him but better Bono the peacemaker than Trump the warmonger.

Bono and the Taoiseach

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