Bono and the Taoiseach

James Brown

John DoeReMi wrote: »

Nowhere in any of my welfare comments, which I clarified earlier, have I slagged off genuine welfare claimants.

Your points about foreign aid are all valid and I'd agree with a lot of them. I have no problem with people who have a genuine concern about Bono's activities and wants to debate them in an adult fashion. My problem is that it's gone too far now in this country with the Bono hate. There's almost a national consensus that he's an ogre. I am, in fairness, more conscious of this than most because I'm a fan of the band. I don't go around shouting about how much I love them, but it 's now got to a point where I actually have to hide the fact that I'm a fan because of people jumping down my throat. At a recent social event I was at I was introduced to a couple of guys and we got into conversation. I mentioned, casually, that I was trying to get a ticket for their Irish gigs later this year. The words were barely out of my mouth when one of them starts mouthing off about the tax thing. I just walked away.

Well maybe you should have led with, 'the great, vast majority of those on welfare are deserving, hard working people, but there is a minority who take advantage.'
Watch the Poverty Inc. doc or look up the Bono portion on youtube.
I may think Bono is a tit, but I enjoyed going to see the Joshua Tree gig. Might you have hitched Bono's blood diamond encrusted wagon to Leo's dull star just to get your pro bono work into the politics forum?

McMurphy

John DoeReMi wrote: »

Actually Bono did make comments onstage back in 1987 about the health service crisis. This was at a time when 4,000 beds were taken out of the service in order to try and put the country back on the rails after the first time Fianna Fail bankrupted the country in the early 80's.

31 years ago, yeah?

John DoeReMi

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Well maybe you should have led with, 'the great, vast majority of those on welfare are deserving, hard working people, but there is a minority who take advantage.'
Watch the Poverty Inc. doc or look up the Bono portion on youtube.
I may think Bono is a tit, but I enjoyed going to see the Joshua Tree gig. Might you have hitched Bono's blood diamond encrusted wagon to Leo's dull star just to get your pro bono work into the politics forum?

I don't believe I should have to state the obvious. My comments referred to the kind of knuckle draggers you find in pubs the length and breadth of the country.

Nicely worded slag off in the second paragraph there. Who knows, we may end up beside each other at a future gig.

John DoeReMi

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

31 years ago, yeah?

Actually he paid tribute to front line health service workers more recently, but your point is meaningless anyway. The problems of the health service in this country exist because the Irish people allow them to exist. As evidenced by their voting patterns.

david75

John DoeReMi wrote: »

Actually he paid tribute to front line health service workers more recently, but your point is meaningless anyway. The problems of the health service in this country exist because the Irish people allow them to exist. As evidenced by their voting patterns.

Your hero Leo did an appalling job when he had the ministry. So you’re kinda undermining your own point here.

James Brown

John DoeReMi wrote: »

I don't believe I should have to state the obvious. My comments referred to the kind of knuckle draggers you find in pubs the length and breadth of the country.

Nicely worded slag off in the second paragraph there. Who knows, we may end up beside each other at a future gig.

You are selling right wing PR spin. I'm not sure if you realise that or not. The way you word and present your 'findings' might lead one to believe welfare fraud is endemic and a major causal contributor to the real life problems facing Irish people, above and beyond the generational poor policies and cronyism metered out by the Fianna Fail and Fine Gael parties.

All fraud against the state should be rooted out, but to paraphrase Leo, there's others doing worse. Much worse.

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

31 years ago, yeah?

It's still going on, to be fair......(how long must we sing this song?). What's needed is someone like Leo put in charge of health

Franz Von Peppercorn

david75 wrote: »

Your hero Leo did an appalling job when he had the ministry. So you’re kinda undermining your own point here.

Without dismantling the system and starting again nobody is going to do good there.

James Brown

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Without dismantling the system and starting again nobody is going to do good there.

Agreed. Kenny blew his shot and Leo might talk about it needing to be done something something...

McMurphy

John DoeReMi wrote: »

Actually he paid tribute to front line health service workers more recently, but your point is meaningless anyway. The problems of the health service in this country exist because the Irish people allow them to exist. As evidenced by their voting patterns.

My point is far from meaningless.

Your own post stated that bono commented on the state of the 'health system crisis'back in 1987.

Things have not improved, in fact I recall reading that the health crisis had hit an all time high fairly recently, during Leo's tenure as health minister and as Taoiseach.

Just today I was reading that things have got so bad that hot food has had to be stopped from being served to people languishing on trolleys.

In 2018.

Whats the latest from Bono on that I wonder?

John DoeReMi

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

My point is far from meaningless.

Your own post stated that bono commented on the state of the 'health system crisis'back in 1987.

Things have not improved, in fact I recall reading that the health crisis had hit an all time high fairly recently, during Leo's tenure as health minister and as Taoiseach.

Just today I was reading that things have got so bad that hot food has had to be stopped from being served to people languishing on trolleys.

In 2018.

Whats the latest from Bono on that I wonder?

To the best of my knowledge, Bono has never actually held the position of Minister for Health. So why you keep banging on about the health service and Bono baffles me.

The problems of the health service exist because health is an area with more powerful vested interests and competing factions than possibly any other area of human activity bar the arms dealing trade. In this country we have a situation where every single health service employee from the richest consultant down to the minimum wage cleaner has their trade union or some other form of representative association behind them. All of whom refuse to take part in any meaningful reform of the system until they've been bought off with pay increases or some other sweetener. That's just one piece of the puzzle. Then you have the gombeen politicians who refuse to accept that we can't have a hospital in every hamlet and an ambulance at the end of every driveway and who will block badly needed reforms if their local service is threatened. Then of course we have the media. Who have a vested interest in the service being a disaster (which it isn't by any means) and who will only publish the most hysterical horror stories - often grossly exagerated - day after day, which leads Joe and Jane Public to think that every hospital in Ireland is a war zone. Which it isn't. This by the way can deter people from wanting to join the health service in the first place, which in turn means that hospitals can't get the staff they need....and so on and so on.

None of which has even the slightest thing whatsoever to do with Bono of course, but don't let that get in the way of some infantile student Socialist Worker ranting. And for the record, I was once an infantile Socialist Worker supporter myself. Then I went into the real world and grew up.

david75

You set up a new boards account just to post all this?

What’s your point exactly?

Bono is wonderful and people on social welfare are all bad?

LoughNeagh2017

At least Bono is an island nationalist, a Protestant too, the orange people would like him.

FrancieBrady

It would be refreshing to see Leo do a favour for someone who isn't a million/billionaire though.
Like my relative who lay on a trolley in hospital for two nights last week.

It's the cringe inducing PR they try to extract out of meetings like these that annoys.

recedite

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

At least Bono is an island nationalist, a Protestant too, the orange people would like him.

Whats "an island nationalist"?

Thomas__.

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

At least Bono is an island nationalist, a Protestant too, the orange people would like him.

They certainly dislike his song of Bloody Sunday. Therefore I doubt what you say about him being liked by the Dinosaurs of NI.

evolving_doors

John DoeReMi wrote: »

My social welfare comment is about people who deliberately choose to drop out of society because our welfare system allows them to. I'm talking about able bodied people who are perfectly capable of working and contributing to society but choose not to. Welfare is meant to support those who genuinely need it.

that's bono

blanch152

Thomas__. wrote: »

They certainly dislike his song of Bloody Sunday. Therefore I doubt what you say about him being liked by the Dinosaurs of NI.

Who dislikes his song of Bloody Sunday?

It has been misunderstood by a lot of people. It is basically an anti-terrorist and anti-violence song.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_Bloody_Sunday

"And let me tell you somethin'. I've had enough of Irish Americans who haven't been back to their country in twenty or thirty years come up to me and talk about the resistance, the revolution back home...and the glory of the revolution...and the glory of dying for the revolution. **** the revolution! They don't talk about the glory of killing for the revolution. What's the glory in taking a man from his bed and gunning him down in front of his wife and his children? Where's the glory in that? Where's the glory in bombing a Remembrance Day parade of old age pensioners, their medals taken out and polished up for the day. Where's the glory in that? To leave them dying or crippled for life or dead under the rubble of a revolution that the majority of the people in my country don't want. No more."

This is an anti-IRA song, an anti-UDA song, highlighting the futility of terrorism.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Who dislikes his song of Bloody Sunday?

It has been misunderstood by a lot of people. It is basically an anti-terrorist and anti-violence song.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_Bloody_Sunday

"And let me tell you somethin'. I've had enough of Irish Americans who haven't been back to their country in twenty or thirty years come up to me and talk about the resistance, the revolution back home...and the glory of the revolution...and the glory of dying for the revolution. **** the revolution! They don't talk about the glory of killing for the revolution. What's the glory in taking a man from his bed and gunning him down in front of his wife and his children? Where's the glory in that? Where's the glory in bombing a Remembrance Day parade of old age pensioners, their medals taken out and polished up for the day. Where's the glory in that? To leave them dying or crippled for life or dead under the rubble of a revolution that the majority of the people in my country don't want. No more."

This is an anti-IRA song, an anti-UDA song, highlighting the futility of terrorism.

The song was supposed to be about Bloody Sunday in Derry.

It is anti violence in general and, sadly, like most people in 1983 it had no practical solutions to stop the violence.

But all hail Bono the peacemaker.

He attributes the song to the Edge by the way, as he merely rewrote and restructured the song.

AlanG

Don't forget Bono is a businessman first and musician second. He has made far more profit from Facebook and property than from music, so these reports should be about a Facebook investor meeting government officials. In 2011 their share of Facebook was already worth about 1 billion.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/ireland-business-blog-with-lisa-ocarroll/2011/aug/16/u2-bono-facebook-stake

Thomas__.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

blanch152 wrote: »

Who dislikes his song of Bloody Sunday?

It has been misunderstood by a lot of people. It is basically an anti-terrorist and anti-violence song.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_Bloody_Sunday

"And let me tell you somethin'. I've had enough of Irish Americans who haven't been back to their country in twenty or thirty years come up to me and talk about the resistance, the revolution back home...and the glory of the revolution...and the glory of dying for the revolution. **** the revolution! They don't talk about the glory of killing for the revolution. What's the glory in taking a man from his bed and gunning him down in front of his wife and his children? Where's the glory in that? Where's the glory in bombing a Remembrance Day parade of old age pensioners, their medals taken out and polished up for the day. Where's the glory in that? To leave them dying or crippled for life or dead under the rubble of a revolution that the majority of the people in my country don't want. No more."

This is an anti-IRA song, an anti-UDA song, highlighting the futility of terrorism.

The song was supposed to be about Bloody Sunday in Derry.

It is anti violence in general and, sadly, like most people in 1983 it had no practical solutions to stop the violence.

But all hail Bono the peacemaker.

He attributes the song to the Edge by the way, as he merely rewrote and restructured the song.

I'm more indifferent to him but better Bono the peacemaker than Trump the warmonger.

FrancieBrady

Thomas__. wrote: »

I'm more indifferent to him but better Bono the peacemaker than Trump the warmonger.

You know what you are getting with Trump.

Not so with somebody who will rattle off a platitudinous pop song and hop on and off bandwagons to lecture the people.

Some good tunes but let's keep the value of that to humanity in perspective.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The song was supposed to be about Bloody Sunday in Derry.

It is anti violence in general and, sadly, like most people in 1983 it had no practical solutions to stop the violence.

But all hail Bono the peacemaker.

He attributes the song to the Edge by the way, as he merely rewrote and restructured the song.

The song was originally misinterpreted by republicans as support from U2 for their cause. Bono quickly disabused them of that sentiment.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

The song was originally misinterpreted by republicans as support from U2 for their cause. Bono quickly disabused them of that sentiment.

The song was inspired by Bloody Sunday in Derry.

You said the song was 'anti IRA and anti UDA', it isn't specifically about those groups, it is anti violence.

Stop jumping on bandwagons yourself. Bono is quite happy when it suits him, to have the song associated with events in Derry.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/bono-remembers-the-real-bloody-sunday-20100622

Thomas__.

blanch152 wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The song was supposed to be about Bloody Sunday in Derry.

It is anti violence in general and, sadly, like most people in 1983 it had no practical solutions to stop the violence.

But all hail Bono the peacemaker.

He attributes the song to the Edge by the way, as he merely rewrote and restructured the song.

The song was originally misinterpreted by republicans as support from U2 for their cause. Bono quickly disabused them of that sentiment.

One could say that you misinterprete the song by simply omitting to know that Bloody Sunday is about the Paras killing innocent civilians. I am sure that you know that yourself perfectly well but you still try to have the focus on the IRA and the UDA for which the Provos allegedly were around on that day in Derry but the UDA had nothing to do with it, just the Paras did the killings, destroying the Civil Rights Movement in NI.

Extremists of any political stance love to abuse traditions and symbols for their own purpose. It is just a matter of whether the non-extremists let them get away with it unquestioned and unopposed.

Thomas__.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

blanch152 wrote: »

The song was originally misinterpreted by republicans as support from U2 for their cause. Bono quickly disabused them of that sentiment.

The song was inspired by Bloody Sunday in Derry.

You said the song was 'anti IRA and anti UDA', it isn't specifically about those groups, it is anti violence.

Stop jumping on bandwagons yourself. Bono is quite happy when it suits him, to have the song associated with events in Derry.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/bono-remembers-the-real-bloody-sunday-20100622

Why did you come up with Bloody Sunday of November 1920 in your previous post as well?

Thomas__.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Thomas__. wrote: »

I'm more indifferent to him but better Bono the peacemaker than Trump the warmonger.

You know what you are getting with Trump.

Not so with somebody who will rattle off a platitudinous pop song and hop on and off bandwagons to lecture the people.

Some good tunes but let's keep the value of that to humanity in perspective.

Aye, lots of twatter sh1te from an old man who acts like a child and sits on the levers of a world power. That is worse than anything that comes from Bono.

FrancieBrady

Thomas__. wrote: »

Why did you come up with Bloody Sunday of November 1920 in your previous post as well?

What?

Thomas__.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Thomas__. wrote: »

Why did you come up with Bloody Sunday of November 1920 in your previous post as well?

What?

Sorry, my mistake. I mixed it up with the content of the wiki article posted by blanch.

boombang

I think a huge number of people view Bono as a complete tool. I don't think Leo is going to do his own reputation any favours by being seen to listen to him.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The song was inspired by Bloody Sunday in Derry.

You said the song was 'anti IRA and anti UDA', it isn't specifically about those groups, it is anti violence.

Stop jumping on bandwagons yourself. Bono is quite happy when it suits him, to have the song associated with events in Derry.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/bono-remembers-the-real-bloody-sunday-20100622

Both Bono and the Edge state that the source of inspiration was both Bloody Sunday in Derry and Bloody Sunday in 1920.

However, where you misinterpret it is that you mistake inspiration for support. Yes, Bono found the events of Bloody Sunday to be horrific and unjustified, but he also found the reaction by the IRA to the events of Bloody Sunday to be horrific and unjustified. That is the message of the song.