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Bono and the Taoiseach

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  • 21-03-2018 12:38pm
    #1
    John DoeReMi
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭


    An interesting article in this morning’s Daily Mail about correspondence between Bono and the Taoiseach and high level meetings between Bono, Varadkar, Simon Coveney and Paschal Donohoe. Apparently this was to discuss Ireland’s overseas aid etc.

    Great news to read about in my humble opinion. To me Bono and Leo Varadkar represent Ireland at its best – intelligent, creative, compassionate, hard working, forward looking. There’s a case to be made that U2 achieve more for this country on a daily basis, in terms of good will abroad and hard cash from U2 related tourism, than most of our so called democratically elected “public representatives” do for the country in their lifetime.

    Of course all of this will send the usual hysterical mobs of whinging infantile begrudgers into a tailspin of frothing at the mouth as they sit there, helplessly, trying to sound cool down the pub by mouthing off about how much they hate Bono. The usual inaccurate nonsense about how the great man “doesn’t pay any f*ckin* tax” will be trotted out. Too thick of course to know the difference between personal tax, which Bono pays plenty of because he CHOOSES to remain resident in Ireland, and business tax. (I usually find myself that the ones who scream loudest about the tax issue are the ones who have devoted their life to milking the welfare system in this country for all its worth and will never pay a cent of tax themselves because they prefer the welfare lifestyle to actually, like, working.)

    Note to mods: this post is not trolling. It is intended to stimulate robust, frank, discussion on, among other things:

    - the cancer of begrudgery which still afflicts this country;
    - the contribution U2 and Bono have made to Ireland;
    - the intersection between politics and rock;
    - the welfare lifestyle. And I make no apologies for using that term. It exists and it’s high time we faced up to the damage it’s doing to our society.


«13

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Red_Wake
    Registered Users Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭Red_Wake


    I don't have to be on welfare to think Bono's a cock.

    Taking advantage of tax loopholes to avoid paying corporation taxes is hypocritical when he's telling the government to increases overseas aid , which the tax he avoids paying could contribute to.


  • Options
    #3
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    John DoeReMi wrote: »
    An interesting article in this morning’s Daily Mail about correspondence between Bono and the Taoiseach and high level meetings between Bono, Varadkar, Simon Coveney and Paschal Donohoe. Apparently this was to discuss Ireland’s overseas aid etc.

    Great news to read about in my humble opinion. To me Bono and Leo Varadkar represent Ireland at its best – intelligent, creative, compassionate, hard working, forward looking. There’s a case to be made that U2 achieve more for this country on a daily basis, in terms of good will abroad and hard cash from U2 related tourism, than most of our so called democratically elected “public representatives” do for the country in their lifetime.

    Of course all of this will send the usual hysterical mobs of whinging infantile begrudgers into a tailspin of frothing at the mouth as they sit there, helplessly, trying to sound cool down the pub by mouthing off about how much they hate Bono. The usual inaccurate nonsense about how the great man “doesn’t pay any f*ckin* tax” will be trotted out. Too thick of course to know the difference between personal tax, which Bono pays plenty of because he CHOOSES to remain resident in Ireland, and business tax. (I usually find myself that the ones who scream loudest about the tax issue are the ones who have devoted their life to milking the welfare system in this country for all its worth and will never pay a cent of tax themselves because they prefer the welfare lifestyle to actually, like, working.)

    Note to mods: this post is not trolling. It is intended to stimulate robust, frank, discussion on, among other things:

    - the cancer of begrudgery which still afflicts this country;
    - the contribution U2 and Bono have made to Ireland;
    - the intersection between politics and rock;
    - the welfare lifestyle. And I make no apologies for using that term. It exists and it’s high time we faced up to the damage it’s doing to our society.

    I'm a PAYE worker and hate Bono,how does that that factor in your worldview? Bono does **** all for anyone except bono.his red foundation has admin costs of 99% and is basically a marketing platform for big companies.He does seems like Leo's type of guy tho.Soundbites and no substance.


  • Options
    #4
    Mossy Monk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 28,128 ✭✭✭✭Mossy Monk


    Well done to the OP. Makes a thread about Bono and the Taoiseach but uses it to bash social welfare recipients.


  • Options
    #5
    John DoeReMi
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭John DoeReMi


    Red_Wake wrote: »
    I don't have to be on welfare to think Bono's a cock.

    Taking advantage of tax loopholes to avoid paying corporation taxes is hypocritical when he's telling the government to increases overseas aid , which the tax he avoids paying could contribute to.

    It's not that simple though. First of all, U2 isn't Bono. There are four members of the band and they share profits equally. Any financial decision affects Edge, Larry and Adam just as much as Bono. Secondly, U2 are a major business organistion which, in these unstable economic times, employs a significant number of people both directly and indirectly. The history of rock is full of successful bands who went bankrupt because they didn't keep their eye on the ball business wise. U2 could be said to have an obligation to those they employ to run their business efficiently.


  • Options
    #6
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    So a guy who moved his tax base outside of Ireland to Holland is telling our government how taxpayers money should be spent. Yeah seems legit.


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  • Options
    #7
    Arthur Daley
    Registered Users Posts: 4,383 ✭✭✭Arthur Daley


    John DoeReMi wrote: »
    U2 could be said to have an obligation to those they employ to run their business efficiently.

    Not to the exclusion of others, or the common good, no.


  • Options
    #8
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Mossy Monk wrote:
    Well done to the OP. Makes a thread about Bono and the Taoiseach but uses it to bash social welfare recipients.

    Missed that bit, I must have developed an ability to weed out the dole/SW bashing on Boards. If I could only patent the technique....


  • Options
    #9
    John DoeReMi
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭John DoeReMi


    Mossy Monk wrote: »
    Well done to the OP. Makes a thread about Bono and the Taoiseach but uses it to bash social welfare recipients.

    My social welfare comment is about people who deliberately choose to drop out of society because our welfare system allows them to. I'm talking about able bodied people who are perfectly capable of working and contributing to society but choose not to. Welfare is meant to support those who genuinely need it.


  • Options
    #10
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    John DoeReMi wrote:
    Note to mods: this post is not trolling.


    Of course it's not. ; )


  • Options
    #11
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Bono ? can't even look after his own :




    https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/bono-charity-one-campaign-bullying-claims-harassment-u2-latest-a8250306.html


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  • Options
    #12
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    John DoeReMi wrote:
    My social welfare comment is about people who deliberately choose to drop out of society because our welfare system allows them to. I'm talking about able bodied people who are perfectly capable of working and contributing to society but choose not to. Welfare is meant to support those who genuinely need it.


    How many have dropped out ? Must be a huge number if they are as you claim doing damage to Irish society. Personally I think the policies of this and the pervious government may have done far more harm to our society but that's just my opinion. I suppose it's easier blame those on the margins.


  • Options
    #13
    John DoeReMi
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭John DoeReMi


    Arthur Daley wrote: »
    Not to the exclusion of others, or the common good, no.

    How do they exclude others and damage the common good? What does that even mean? They're a rock band. If they wanted to they could all be tax exiles and spend all their profits on coke and hookers. Instead they choose to remain resident in Ireland and try and use their celebrity to do something worthwhile. For which they are vilified and despised by a large number of people in this country.


  • Options
    #14
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    John DoeReMi wrote:
    How do they exclude others and damage the common good? What does that even mean? They're a rock band. If they wanted to they could all be tax exiles and spend all their profits on coke and hookers. Instead they choose to remain resident in Ireland and try and use their celebrity to do something worthwhile. For which they are vilified and despised by a large number of people in this country.


    That you Bono?


  • Options
    #15
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    To the point that they ( ONE ) were calling organizations ahead of my meetings and media appointments and sent a letter to African NGOs claiming, basically, painting me as a genocidal maniac trying to kill African babies.
    To me, that was not really fostering dialogue."
    .


  • Options
    #16
    John DoeReMi
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭John DoeReMi


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    So a guy who moved his tax base outside of Ireland to Holland is telling our government how taxpayers money should be spent. Yeah seems legit.

    He's not telling the Government anything. Were you at the meetings described ?


  • Options
    #17
    Arthur Daley
    Registered Users Posts: 4,383 ✭✭✭Arthur Daley


    You know I do feel there is a certain begrudgery towards U2 and Bono in particular. In years to come U2 will be celebrated widely and associated properly with Dublin along the lines of how proud Liverpool is of the Beatles.

    But Bono is one opinion. Just a guy with an opinion. It's not a lot more valid than mine or yours, or the other people of this thread. He doesn't help himself in this regard when he holds these private meetings with Heads of government, some very dodgy charachters indeed, such as Clinton, Blair and W Bush. So it's inevitable he will be challenged and lampooned for pushing this One World, open borders agenda, and conspiring with people that are effectively seen as war criminals by large swathes of the populace.

    I still buy their music, and go to their live shows.


  • Options
    #18
    Sidebaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 178 ✭✭Sidebaro


    There are some people who have genuine reasons for disliking Bono and then there's people who dislike him for silly reasons or because it's 'cool' to. I think it's the same with all celebrities but Bono is A List and Irish so we hear about it more.


  • Options
    #19
    John DoeReMi
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭John DoeReMi


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    How many have dropped out ? Must be a huge number if they are as you claim doing damage to Irish society. Personally I think the policies of this and the pervious government may have done far more harm to our society but that's just my opinion. I suppose it's easier blame those on the margins.

    I don't have stats. But I personally know three individuals who've dropped out to live the lifestyle. We all know it's going on. It's not healthy for any society to promote the idea that you can simply drop out and live off everyone else's work.

    The massive amount of welfare expenditure in this country was a contributory factor in the most recent economic catastrophe Fianna Fail inflicted on the country. It's high time we had a debate about welfare.


  • Options
    #20
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    Did Bono and Leo ever discuss the crisis in our health service or is that too unsexy as a cause?


  • Options
    #21
    John DoeReMi
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭John DoeReMi


    Arthur Daley wrote: »
    You know I do feel there is a certain begrudgery towards U2 and Bono in particular. In years to come U2 will be celebrated widely and associated properly with Dublin along the lines of how proud Liverpool is of the Beatles.

    But Bono is one opinion. Just a guy with an opinion. It's not a lot more valid than mine or yours, or the other people of this thread. He doesn't help himself in this regard when he holds these private meetings with Heads of government, some very dodgy charachters indeed, such as Clinton, Blair and W Bush. So it's inevitable he will be challenged and lampooned for pushing this One World, open borders agenda, and conspiring with people that are effectively seen as war criminals by large swathes of the populace.

    I still buy their music, and go to their live shows.

    Good points, well made. Re Bush, Clinton etc: these are world leaders and the fact is that if you want to effect real change - which Bono does - these are the people you have to influence. Bono is well aware of the fact that many people have a problem with Blair and Bush in particular over Iraq. He's on record as saying that he thinks it's justified to meet whoever he needs to meet to achieve his aims.


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  • Options
    #22
    John DoeReMi
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭John DoeReMi


    smurgen wrote: »
    Did Bono and Leo ever discuss the crisis in our health service or is that too unsexy as a cause?

    Actually Bono did make comments onstage back in 1987 about the health service crisis. This was at a time when 4,000 beds were taken out of the service in order to try and put the country back on the rails after the first time Fianna Fail bankrupted the country in the early 80's.


  • Options
    #23
    Thomas__.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 152 ✭✭Thomas__.


    John DoeReMi wrote: »
    An interesting article in this morning’s Daily Mail about correspondence between Bono and the Taoiseach and high level meetings between Bono, Varadkar, Simon Coveney and Paschal Donohoe. Apparently this was to discuss Ireland’s overseas aid etc.

    Great news to read about in my humble opinion. To me Bono and Leo Varadkar represent Ireland at its best – intelligent, creative, compassionate, hard working, forward looking.  There’s a case to be made that U2 achieve more for this country on a daily basis, in terms of good will abroad and hard cash from U2 related tourism, than most of our so called democratically elected “public representatives” do for the country in their lifetime.  

    Of course all of this will send the usual hysterical mobs of whinging infantile begrudgers into a tailspin of frothing at the mouth as they sit there, helplessly, trying to sound cool down the pub by mouthing off about how much they hate Bono. The usual inaccurate nonsense about how the great man “doesn’t pay any f*ckin* tax” will be trotted out. Too thick of course to know the difference between personal tax, which Bono pays plenty of because he CHOOSES to remain resident in Ireland, and business tax. (I usually find myself that the ones who scream loudest about the tax issue are the ones who have devoted their life to milking the welfare system in this country for all its worth and will never pay a cent of tax themselves because they prefer the welfare lifestyle to actually, like, working.)

    Note to mods: this post is not trolling. It is intended to stimulate robust, frank, discussion on, among other things:

    - the cancer of begrudgery which still afflicts this country;  
    - the contribution U2 and Bono have made to Ireland;
    - the intersection between politics and rock;
    - the welfare lifestyle. And I make no apologies for using that term.  It exists and it’s high time we faced up to the damage it’s doing to our society.

    I acknowledge what he has done and still does to make the world a better place, still I think that your post is a bit exaggerated. I am not that sure that he does it all for Ireland, but more sure that he does it for the sake of a better life for humans in areas where they are not so well off like here.


  • Options
    #24
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    John DoeReMi wrote:
    He's not telling the Government anything. Were you at the meetings described ?


    Equally were you? So I can make a supposition as can you we both may be wrong or right. Leo of course can put the conversation up on his Twitter account with Bono's permission of course.


  • Options
    #25
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    John DoeReMi wrote:
    I don't have stats. But I personally know three individuals who've dropped out to live the lifestyle. We all know it's going on. It's not healthy for any society to promote the idea that you can simply drop out and live off everyone else's work.


    So you're just guessing when you could have said 'I have no idea how many but I think there are lots'. Grand so.


  • Options
    #26
    Arthur Daley
    Registered Users Posts: 4,383 ✭✭✭Arthur Daley


    John DoeReMi wrote: »
    How do they exclude others and damage the common good? What does that even mean? They're a rock band. If they wanted to they could all be tax exiles and spend all their profits on coke and hookers. Instead they choose to remain resident in Ireland and try and use their celebrity to do something worthwhile. For which they are vilified and despised by a large number of people in this country.

    When you talk about running things 'efficiently' for the benefit of employees, I take it to mean tax avoidance measures. Of course people will say this is all very legal, and we are sure it is. But for most people it stinks, and while something may be in the letter of the law, it is the spirit of the law that people are often referring to. Most people don't approve of tax planning measures to offshore incomes, and certainly not when the same person is lecturing us about transferring more taxpayers money to foreign aid budgets.

    Hiding behind how many people you employ to justify this behaviour is disingenuous for many people.


  • Options
    #27
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    John DoeReMi wrote: »
    An interesting article in this morning’s Daily Mail about correspondence between Bono and the Taoiseach and high level meetings between Bono, Varadkar, Simon Coveney and Paschal Donohoe. Apparently this was to discuss Ireland’s overseas aid etc.

    Great news to read about in my humble opinion. To me Bono and Leo Varadkar represent Ireland at its best – intelligent, creative, compassionate, hard working, forward looking. There’s a case to be made that U2 achieve more for this country on a daily basis, in terms of good will abroad and hard cash from U2 related tourism, than most of our so called democratically elected “public representatives” do for the country in their lifetime.

    Of course all of this will send the usual hysterical mobs of whinging infantile begrudgers into a tailspin of frothing at the mouth as they sit there, helplessly, trying to sound cool down the pub by mouthing off about how much they hate Bono. The usual inaccurate nonsense about how the great man “doesn’t pay any f*ckin* tax” will be trotted out. Too thick of course to know the difference between personal tax, which Bono pays plenty of because he CHOOSES to remain resident in Ireland, and business tax. (I usually find myself that the ones who scream loudest about the tax issue are the ones who have devoted their life to milking the welfare system in this country for all its worth and will never pay a cent of tax themselves because they prefer the welfare lifestyle to actually, like, working.)

    Note to mods: this post is not trolling. It is intended to stimulate robust, frank, discussion on, among other things:

    - the cancer of begrudgery which still afflicts this country;
    - the contribution U2 and Bono have made to Ireland;
    - the intersection between politics and rock;
    - the welfare lifestyle. And I make no apologies for using that term. It exists and it’s high time we faced up to the damage it’s doing to our society.


    With all due respected your post is delusional and reads like a Trumpesque vehicle to get a dig in at your fellow countrymen/women who aren't on your particular political song.

    Ironic to slag off the working poor and the sick in your own country to applaud a billionaires charitable works abroad. A billionaire who's pal The Edge stood up and declared that their hotel, The Clarence, should be exempt from paying tax due to all the tourism U2 brings to the country.
    As regards Bono, he makes profit on his charity works. Bono charity money is 'Better than a kick in the arse' as they saying goes, but it's believed this, the true poverty industry (where multinationals make profit), actually helps to maintain the need for charity when people generally want to help themselves.

    There is an award winning documentary, 'Poverty Inc.' which has a whole section about Bono and the damage he does.
    "I see multiple colonial governors," says Ghanaian software entrepreneur Herman Chinery-Hesse of the international development establishment. "We are held captive by the donor community."

    The West has made itself the protagonist of development, giving rise to a multibillion dollar poverty industry.
    https://www.povertyinc.org/

    More billionaires does not mean greater wealth for everyone. And the current economic system we adhere to does just that. As regards Fine Gael economics; If We live on a street and I'm a billionaire, that means our street is doing great economically, but you, my neighbour and others on the street might be eating cold beans right out of the tin for your dinner, but we can claim the economy of our street is strong.
    This is the issue with the polices of Leo Varadkar. 'Sure homelessness is bad, but elsewhere is worse' etc. We see millions squandered and he runs a campaign against welfare fraud. We have Rothchild replace Merrill as the states financial adviser; Rothchild turned out to be a major Anglo bond holder. We've vulture funds profiting off the misery of the people and paying little tax for the privilege, but y'know 'dem that won't work'.

    Alas ignorance is bliss.


  • Options
    #28
    John DoeReMi
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭John DoeReMi


    Arthur Daley wrote: »
    When you talk about running things 'efficiently' for the benefit of employees, I take it to mean tax avoidance measures. Of course people will say this is all very legal, and we are sure it is. But for most people it stinks, and while something may be in the letter of the law, it is the spirit of the law that people are often referring to. Most people don't approve of tax planning measures to offshore incomes, and certainly not when the same person is lecturing us about transferring more taxpayers money to foreign aid budgets.

    Hiding behind how many people you employ to justify this behaviour is disingenuous for many people.

    I'd love to know where these lectures that everybody accuses Bono of take place. I'm going to U2 concerts in Ireland and abroad for 40 years. I've read countless interviews with the man. I've never heard him tell anyone they should do this or they should do that. I have heard him make comments about issues he cares passionately about.

    When you scratch the surface of most people's dislike of Bono, the root cause has nothing to do with tax or anything else. It's the fact that he's rich and famous and he doesn't play the game you're supposed to play in this country. The one where you pretend to be really "down to earth" and "a man of the people". Like Bertie Ahern. "Ah look at me, I love a pint and bit o' the oul GAA". Irish people are never happier than when they're sneering at each other. I've seen it my whole life, I've been on the receiving end of it and I'm sick of it.

    For all our progress and patting ourselves on the back about how wonderful we are, there's still a strain of ignorance and anti-intellectualism in this country. Our attitude to Bono says a lot about the country. We elect corrupt politicians and political parties we KNOW are rotten with corruption from the top to the bottom. Then sneer at Bono for some alleged wrongdoing or hypocrisy.


  • Options
    #29
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    OP I’d love you to go apply for social welfare, see how almost impossible they make it to actually get on jobseekers, then explore what kind of ‘lifestyle’ €188 a week affords you.

    You’re either innocently ignorant of how dismal an existence it is trying to get by on that or you’re the opposite and hate poor people. Given your admiration for leo I can probably make a guess which it is.


  • Options
    #30
    John DoeReMi
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭John DoeReMi


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    With all due respected your post is delusional and reads like a Trumpesque vehicle to get a dig in at your fellow countrymen/women who aren't on your particular political song.

    Ironic to slag off the working poor and the sick in your own country to applaud a billionaires charitable works abroad. A billionaire who's pal The Edge stood up and declared that their hotel, The Clarence, should be exempt from paying tax due to all the tourism U2 brings to the country.
    As regards Bono, he makes profit on his charity works. Bono charity money is 'Better than a kick in the arse' as they saying goes, but it's believed this, the true poverty industry (where multinationals make profit), actually helps to maintain the need for charity when people generally want to help themselves.

    There is an award winning documentary, 'Poverty Inc.' which has a whole section about Bono and the damage he does.



    More billionaires does not mean greater wealth for everyone. And the current economic system we adhere to does just that. As regards Fine Gael economics; If We live on a street and I'm a billionaire, that means our street is doing great economically, but you, my neighbour and others on the street might be eating cold beans right out of the tin for your dinner, but we can claim the economy of our street is strong.
    This is the issue with the polices of Leo Varadkar. 'Sure homelessness is bad, but elsewhere is worse' etc. We see millions squandered and he runs a campaign against welfare fraud. We have Rothchild replace Merrill as the states financial adviser; Rothchild turned out to be a major Anglo bond holder. We've vulture funds profiting off the misery of the people and paying little tax for the privilege, but y'know 'dem that won't work'.

    Alas ignorance is bliss.

    Nowhere in any of my welfare comments, which I clarified earlier, have I slagged off genuine welfare claimants.

    Your points about foreign aid are all valid and I'd agree with a lot of them. I have no problem with people who have a genuine concern about Bono's activities and wants to debate them in an adult fashion. My problem is that it's gone too far now in this country with the Bono hate. There's almost a national consensus that he's an ogre. I am, in fairness, more conscious of this than most because I'm a fan of the band. I don't go around shouting about how much I love them, but it 's now got to a point where I actually have to hide the fact that I'm a fan because of people jumping down my throat. At a recent social event I was at I was introduced to a couple of guys and we got into conversation. I mentioned, casually, that I was trying to get a ticket for their Irish gigs later this year. The words were barely out of my mouth when one of them starts mouthing off about the tax thing. I just walked away.


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  • Options
    #31
    John DoeReMi
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭John DoeReMi


    david75 wrote: »
    OP I’d love you to go apply for social welfare, see how almost impossible they make it to actually get on jobseekers, then explore what kind of ‘lifestyle’ €188 a week affords you.

    You’re either innocently ignorant of how dismal an existence it is trying to get by on that or you’re the opposite and hate poor people. Given your admiration for leo I can probably make a guess which it is.

    As I believe I mentioned earlier, I personally know three people - friends of mine - who have actively chosen not to work because they can earn more on welfare and get a nice apartment from the council etc. I also have a close friend who worked for years, then had an accident and can't work, and is now on the verge of becoming homeless because she can't get the help she needs. Never having learned how to game the system you see.


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