Scummy Irish, Wales sh1t and Messi freak

GFish · 15-03-2018 12:31am #1

https://youtu.be/-btm103ZXN4

I watched half of that clip and by then Eddie Jones had said:

- Messi is a freak
- Wales a Sh1t place
- the Irish are scummy
- the Japanese are too small
and patronised the audience re Roger Bannister

Then I stopped watching.

Come on England - it's time for this plank to walk the plank

15-03-2018 12:41am

The gentleman sitting behind Eddie Jones is an Irish guy, which is why he turned around and looked at him as he said it jokingly.

Messi is a freak of nature in being literally uniquely excellent at something, Japanese men and women are on average 1.5" shorter than UK men and women, and in fairness, I've said Wales is a **** place jokingly myself.

This was a leadership talk for the head company of the RFU's sponsor (Fuso > Mitsubishi), not a newspaper interview, or a public appearance. It's less formal and less serious.

Get a grip, yeah? Just because it's the internet it doesn't mean that you have to be offended by stuff.

Happy4all · 15-03-2018 12:43am

Deleted User wrote: »

The gentleman sitting behind Eddie Jones is an Irish guy, which is why he turned around and looked at him as he said it jokingly.

Messi is a freak of nature in being literally uniquely excellent at something, Japanese men and women are on average 1.5" shorter than UK men and women, and in fairness, I've said Wales is a **** place jokingly myself.

This was a leadership talk for the head company of the RFU's sponsor (Fuso > Mitsubishi), not a newspaper interview, or a public appearance. It's less formal and less serious.

Get a grip, yeah? Just because it's the internet it doesn't mean that you have to be offended by stuff.

ah, that makes it all okay.

15-03-2018 12:46am

If you can understand that other people may have a sense of humour that doesn't exactly mirror yours, and then appreciate that he's being tongue-in-cheek at a private event, yes.

"The brilliant players, unless they're an absolute freak like a Messi, can't play at that level every week, so they tend to...the brilliant players might give you a 9 out of 10 performance, but then the next week they might drop to a 4 out of 10 performance"

The Wales comment comes when he starts talking about Japan U20s playing Wales U20s. He stops, asks who knows Wales and are there any Welsh people there, gets a few responses and says "it's this little **** place" and gets a few laughs, presumably from the people who responded.

Really OP? That's what you're getting upset about?

laugh · 15-03-2018 1:02am

Deleted User wrote: »

If you can understand that other people may have a sense of humour that doesn't exactly mirror yours, and then appreciate that he's being tongue-in-cheek at a private event, yes.

Describing a nation of people as scummy is some kind of humour?

15-03-2018 1:06am

laugh wrote: »

Describing a nation of people as scummy is some kind of humour?

When you're directing the comment at a friend who's from that nation?

Yes. It's actually a fairly common form of humour, fake-insult a friend over where they're from (or something along those lines).

I always thought we had a fairly good, dry sense of humour as a nation. Seems some people want to ruin me that preconception for me.

It's actually a decent talk for what it's worth.

Flincher · 15-03-2018 1:07am

I actually had a listen to it when I went for a stroll earlier. It's actually an interesting enough talk - some interesting points on team cohesion and what he did with Japan. He's just not particularly funny so those jokes don't come off great.

Edit - just as an example, I help out with a bit of soccer coaching with some u16s - they're a lovely group of lads, but we're always commenting that there doesn't seem to be a leader among them. It's dawned on me from listening to Jones that we could give a few of them more chances to lead things in training, and maybe that might result in a few more voices on the pitch. Amazing what you can learn by listening instead of looking to be offended.

thomond2006 · 15-03-2018 1:14am

Let's just win on Saturday. He can say what he likes after that.

commonsense. · 15-03-2018 1:16am

Flincher wrote:

He's just not particularly funny so those jokes don't come off great.

Nail on the head there.
As my mother used to say - making a mountain out of a molehill.
Nothing to see here so move along.

jr86 · 15-03-2018 10:19am

Deleted User wrote: »

I always thought we had a fairly good, dry sense of humour as a nation. Seems some people want to ruin me that preconception for me.

99.9% of people would laugh it off in real life don't worry.

When some people get behind a computer screen though they just have to be offended by something, or jumping on some sort of PC bandwagon

Quint2010 · 15-03-2018 10:20am

His comments were crass. Why else is the RFU apologising?

Buer · 15-03-2018 10:24am

Quint2010 wrote: »

His comments were crass. Why else is the RFU apologising?

PR.

I would imagine 90% of people have said something equally bad about another nation whether they admit it or not.

I've called people from certain places "scummy" at one point or another. It would be a flippant, tongue in cheek generalisation that I didn't actually believe but I'm certain I'd have said it at one point or another as would most people.

As for calling Wales a sh*tty place, people have called Newport and Swansea worse on this forum a number of times and nobody bats an eyeled.

B-D-P-- · 15-03-2018 10:24am

There was once a time, we were known for our sense of humour and being able to have the craic.
I miss those days.

LeinsterDub · 15-03-2018 10:28am

B-D-P-- wrote: »

There was once a time, we were known for our sense of humour and being able to have the craic.
I miss those days.

Stop stereotyping us

jr86 · 15-03-2018 10:29am

Buer wrote: »

I've called people from certain places "scummy" at one point or another. It would be a flippant, tongue in cheek generalisation that I didn't actually believe but I'm certain I'd have said it at one point or another as would most people.

100%

Or else slagged off a place where someone is from to their face, in purely a joking manner.

All this hyper-sensitive nonsense would drive ya daft. Twitter is the absolute pits these days.

Quint2010 · 15-03-2018 10:34am

If a high ranking member of a sports team or coach said "jokingly" in a public environment that The Queen was "scummy" what do you think the reaction would be?

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater · 15-03-2018 10:41am

This was picked up and latched onto by the Social Media "News" outlets and splashed all over Facebook, Twitter etc. Not because any of them were particularly outraged, but for the week that's in it, pure clickbait. I didn't bother watching it myself, but I knew it was probably in a jokey way he meant it. A head coach is not going to start supplying free ammo to teams that he knows can already compete.

Eddie Jones may be many things, but he's not an idiot.

Gbear · 15-03-2018 10:41am

Quint2010 wrote: »

If a high ranking member of a sports team or coach said "jokingly" in a public environment that The Queen was "scummy" what do you think the reaction would be?

Just because others act like **** doesn't mean we have to join them.

Quint2010 · 15-03-2018 10:44am

Gbear wrote: »

Just because others act like **** doesn't mean we have to join them.

Well quite. They'd be offended and outraged though.

15-03-2018 10:56am

Quint2010 wrote: »

If a high ranking member of a sports team or coach said "jokingly" in a public environment that The Queen was "scummy" what do you think the reaction would be?

If Jones called Michael D Higgins scummy, then your analogy would be accurate, but he didn't, he made a jokey (albeit not very funny) remark to an Irish colleague on the stage.

I would guess he would have said "We lost to the ****ing Irish" but didn't want to use the f word on stage and made a poor choice in his alternative word.

Buer · 15-03-2018 10:58am

Quint2010 wrote: »

If a high ranking member of a sports team or coach said "jokingly" in a public environment that The Queen was "scummy" what do you think the reaction would be?

But he didn't. Commenting specifically on a single individual is very different to what Jones did.

And even if he did, if it was a clearly glib comment then it would still be much ado about nothing although I could understand why offence would be taken in that instance. People make a living from savaging public figures.

thomond2006 · 15-03-2018 10:59am

It's a CONSPIRACY!

Jones leaked the video himself!

adamhughes · 15-03-2018 11:03am

Deleted User wrote: »

The gentleman sitting behind Eddie Jones is an Irish guy, which is why he turned around and looked at him as he said it jokingly.

Messi is a freak of nature in being literally uniquely excellent at something, Japanese men and women are on average 1.5" shorter than UK men and women, and in fairness, I've said Wales is a **** place jokingly myself.

This was a leadership talk for the head company of the RFU's sponsor (Fuso > Mitsubishi), not a newspaper interview, or a public appearance. It's less formal and less serious.

Get a grip, yeah? Just because it's the internet it doesn't mean that you have to be offended by stuff.

some leadership talk, what a idiot jones is, he's only motivated Ireland more to kick their butts

jr86 · 15-03-2018 11:05am

adamhughes wrote: »

some leadership talk, what a idiot jones is, he's only motivated Ireland more to kick their butts

Was this talk not months ago?

Complete non-story rubbish

Ray Bloody Purchase · 15-03-2018 11:07am

It seems very opportunistic that it should 'leak' now.

Jawgap · 15-03-2018 11:08am

English coach says something Englishy?

It's a nice little story for the week that's in it (and it'll be a bit of craic to send it on to English friends if we win) but beyond that 'tis a storm in a very small teacup.

arsebiscuits1 · 15-03-2018 11:14am

adamhughes wrote: »

some leadership talk, what a idiot jones is, he's only motivated Ireland more to kick their butts

To paraphrase Jamie Heaslip on the Leinster Munster rivalry.

"It's the Grand Slam in Twickenham, if you can't get motivated for that, go home"

Henry Ford III · 15-03-2018 11:14am

It's an overreaction to a nothing really. It's an old video, taken at a private function and published this week to provoke outrage.

I wonder did he ever say anything silly on Twitter?

Nekarsulm · 15-03-2018 11:14am

jr86 wrote: »

Was this talk not months ago?

Complete non-story rubbish

Yes, from sometime last year.
He says "We have them at home next year ......etc."

ford2600 · 15-03-2018 11:18am

Buer wrote: »

PR.
As for calling Wales a sh*tty place, people have called Newport and Swansea worse on this forum a number of times and nobody bats an eyeled.

https://youtu.be/KcE59yXpvuk

Eddie is a big fan of Twin Towns

Jawgap · 15-03-2018 11:22am

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Yes, from sometime last year.
He says "We have them at home next year ......etc."

Apparently it's been knocking around since last july on YouTube - so hardly a scoop!

Plus, the camera work looks very professional so I'm guessing it was a corporate video - again, not something surreptitiously recorded on a mobile.

.....the only real criticism is that he was a bit indiscreet in so public a forum and I'm not sure the corporate sponsors would want language like that used in relation to countries where they might be hoping to sell a few trucks/vehicles.

Perhaps having a video describing a country as 'scummy' when you are a significant supplier of vehicles to that country's defence forces is the best marketing move ever, but hardly grounds for resignation, public flogging or whatever it is the baying mob think should happen to him.

Hurrache · 15-03-2018 11:23am

Deleted User wrote: »

Messi is a freak of

human growth hormones.

15-03-2018 12:37pm

Can we not do this?

First thing that came to mind was that Nigel Owen's quote, "This is not football".

Professor Moriarty · 15-03-2018 12:44pm

It's certainly a thing of nothing in many ways. However, I can't imagine Schmidt commenting on 'the scummy English'. Which is an important difference between the two men. I'm glad we have Schmidt.

VinLieger · 15-03-2018 12:58pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Can we not do this?

First thing that came to mind was that Nigel Owen's quote, "This is not football".

Tell that to Eddie, he's the one who keeps trying to mindgame and insult everyone else similar to your average premiership manager hanging on to their job by their fingernails

To me it doesn't matter when he said it, to who he said it to or the timing of it being revealed, he said it end of and apologising isnt enough, hes shown this attitude both publicly and privately now so its quite obvious to me this is just the kind of reprehensible arrogant piece of garbage he is in all walks of life and rugby regardless of his coaching ability would be better off with less people like eddie involved in the sport

Buer · 15-03-2018 1:04pm

VinLieger wrote: »

To me it doesn't matter when he said it, to who he said it to or the timing of it being revealed, he said it end of and apologising isnt enough, hes shown this attitude both publicly and privately now so its quite obvious to me this is just the kind of reprehensible arrogant piece of garbage he is in all walks of life and rugby regardless of his coaching ability would be better off with less people like eddie involved in the sport

To me, that's a far more insulting comment about Jones than anything he said about Ireland or Wales.

I would imagine you don't know Jones at all to be in a position to say that he is a "reprehensible arrogant piece of garbage".

15-03-2018 1:11pm

VinLieger wrote: »

Tell that to Eddie, he's the one who keeps trying to mindgame and insult everyone else similar to your average premiership manager hanging on to their job by their fingernails

To me it doesn't matter when he said it, to who he said it to or the timing of it being revealed, he said it end of and apologising isnt enough, hes shown this attitude both publicly and privately now so its quite obvious to me this is just the kind of reprehensible arrogant piece of garbage he is in all walks of life and rugby regardless of his coaching ability would be better off with less people like eddie involved in the sport

you didn't share a train with him from Edinburgh to Manchester by any chance?

15-03-2018 1:15pm

Buer wrote: »

To me, that's a far more insulting comment about Jones than anything he said about Ireland or Wales.

I would imagine you don't know Jones at all to be in a position to say that he is a "reprehensible arrogant piece of garbage".

Saying England would take Italy to the cleaners and then effectively accusing them of cheating in the aftermath along with his comments about Sexton's parents move him out of the 'charming friendly jibe' category as far as I'm concerned.

I couldn't care less about his comments for the most part, but he is the face of the RFU whilst coach and will do more interviews and speak at more events than anyone else in the RFU. As such, he should be mindful of how he represents them in public.

There are 100 things he could have called the Irish for a bit of fun but he chose a poor remark calling anyone scummy. I doubt he was intending any offence and I think this is a big deal about nothing, but it is a predictable big deal about nothing and he will probably avoid such remarks in the future.

mangobob · 15-03-2018 1:19pm

While I am hardly a fan of Jones, I honestly can't believe the level of overreaction to this. People are getting so hung up on the word "scummy". Context is vital here. If he were conducting a serious interview and called Irish people scum, or if he had written an article using the phrase "scummy Irish" then you would have a case that its offensive.

But he is on stage at a corporate event, speaking extemporaneously. In the course of this he tried to make a joke that England would avenge their defeat to the Irish which robbed them of their Grand Slam and the world record for the most wins. It was directed at an Irish guy on stage, ribbing him in a lighthearted manner. He obviously felt he could not swear, so in the heat of the moment he settled on the word scummy. Its just his vernacular. He could equally have said "those nasty Irish" or "those bloody Irish" or any number of other ways of expressing the same sentiment. Its a complete non-story, being totally blown out of proportion as usual by our hysterical media looking to stir up some outrage among their constituency of the perpetually offended in order to generate clicks.

The fact that he apologised does not prove in any way that the outrage is justified. His apology was merely a recognition that in this hyper PC age you have to pick your battles and this is not one that is worth fighting. I'm sure he realises now that ultimately one cannot win in a fight with the press anyway. They own the bully pulpit, so just grit your teeth, put out the standard apology for all "offence" caused and move on.

Furthermore I can't really understand the argument that it will give Ireland ammunition to go out and win. Honestly if we need to resort to spinning a bit of lighthearted banter into some kind of national grievance in order to get up for this game, or to cause us to play better, I would absolutely despair for us. That's the kind of thing you use in a junior cup game to get psyched. These are elite professional rugby players who are playing for a grand slam, to consolidate our 2nd place ranking and a potential financial windfall. They don't need this manufactured cr*p to give them any additional motivation. If anything, it could end up being a distraction.

Finally I hear a few people saying that his comments demonstrate his small man syndrome. I rather think the frenzied overreaction in some quarters here evince a clear case of "small country" syndrome. He also called wales a sh*t place and yet according to ESPN "the Welsh rugby management [found] the footage "humorous"". It's almost as if they realised he wasn't actually serious. What a pity we could not display the same level of common sense.

Connacht15 · 15-03-2018 1:39pm

In the modern world, it's amazing that he is keeping his job. Also his mother is Japanese American, a people who suffered incredibly with internment in the Sates during the war!

VinLieger · 15-03-2018 1:53pm

Buer wrote: »

To me, that's a far more insulting comment about Jones than anything he said about Ireland or Wales.

I would imagine you don't know Jones at all to be in a position to say that he is a "reprehensible arrogant piece of garbage".

Reprehensible - deserving censure or condemnation
Arrogant - having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.
Garbage - rubbish or waste

I dont see how what i said about him is worse than what he said about us

Scum - a layer of dirt or froth on the surface of a liquid.

pickarooney · 15-03-2018 1:57pm

Connacht15 wrote: »

In the modern world, it's amazing that he is keeping his job. Also his mother is Japanese American, a people who suffered incredibly with internment in the Sates during the war!

What on earth has that last bit got to do with anything?

irishbucsfan · 15-03-2018 1:59pm

VinLieger wrote: »

Reprehensible - deserving censure or condemnation
Arrogant - having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.
Garbage - rubbish or waste

I dont see how what i said about him is worse than what he said about us

Scum - a layer of dirt or froth on the surface of a liquid.

The difference is in the context

Shefwedfan · 15-03-2018 2:08pm

Anyone that is "offended" by this video should automatic get a 1 week ban.....

The person who started a thread on it should get a 1 month ban

The "person" above who seems to think it is ok to make reference to Eddies heritage should get a lifetime ban

#shefwedfan for mod :-)

VinLieger · 15-03-2018 2:12pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The difference is in the context

I disagree, I think in context his casual throwaway comment shows exactly the kind of person he is.

I don't think he should be sacked and i doin't care if he apologises but I really don't understand anyone trying to defend him, the mans shown his colours and if he doesn't like the reception that the arrogant attitude he puts forward receives then tough luck, he needs to grow up and accept his actions and words have consequences

irishbucsfan · 15-03-2018 2:14pm

VinLieger wrote: »

I disagree, I think in context his casual throwaway comment shows exactly the kind of person he is.

I think an inability to spot a joke likely does the same for you.

jr86 · 15-03-2018 2:17pm

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It's certainly a thing of nothing in many ways. However, I can't imagine Schmidt commenting on 'the scummy English'. Which is an important difference between the two men. I'm glad we have Schmidt.

Do you really care about these kind of things? Our coach is a nicer guy than their coach!

I'm sure United fans really cared deeply about Alex ferguson's personality when he was winning trophies galore during his tenure

VinLieger · 15-03-2018 2:23pm

jr86 wrote: »

Do you really care about these kind of things? Our coach is a nicer guy than their coach!

I'm sure United fans really cared deeply about Alex ferguson's personality when he was winning trophies galore during his tenure

Yay now I get to use Nigel's quote "this is not football" and thank god for that

VinLieger · 15-03-2018 2:26pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think an inability to spot a joke likely does the same for you.

Notice nobody in the audience even laughed, if they had id maybe let you away with trying to claim it was a joke, but the key definition of a joke is they need to be funny.

Dont get me wrong im not offended in the least by what he said but that still doesn't change that what he said is wrong. I believe he was describing our way of play and that we somehow "robbed" them of their perfect season, record run of victories and a grand slam which lets be honest is pretty pathetic.

He's blaming his loss on us rather than his failures as a coach, the man is as I previously said arrogant and id nearly go as far to say verging narcissistic regarding his own abilities, if he does something wrong then it has to always be someone else's fault. Thats hardly an ideal trait to have in an international coach of any sport.

Professor Moriarty · 15-03-2018 2:26pm

jr86 wrote: »

Do you really care about these kind of things? Our coach is a nicer guy than their coach!

I'm sure United fans really cared deeply about Alex ferguson's personality when he was winning trophies galore during his tenure

I didn't say "nicer", that's your word. If you ask would I prefer a national coach who calls other teams "scummy" and other countries "sh1t" or would I prefer a coach who didn't do that, then I'd prefer the coach who didn't do that.

kuang1 · 15-03-2018 2:27pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Anyone that is "offended" by this video should automatic get a 1 week ban.....

The person who started a thread on it should get a 1 month ban

The "person" above who seems to think it is ok to make reference to Eddies heritage should get a lifetime ban

#shefwedfan for mod :-)

Can we all thank this post.
Then can the mods act on the suggestions...
Then shut the embarassing thing down.

Scummy Irish, Wales sh1t and Messi freak

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