US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

08-03-2018 7:30pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I agree with everything you said. Maybe the Americans will pull out after the talks conclude it's the best possible scenario for peace. North Korea likely will reduce its nuclear stockpile and maybe go as far as denuclearisation? US military involvement in South Korean affairs was always the problem. I still think if talks break off the Americans may decide to go alone on attacking North Korea. Anyway, we got to wait and see if the talks go anywhere.

The US acts out of it's own interests. It's either get behind them or be knocked down. That's Trumps attitude and it's been the general attitude of American foreign policy until Obama came along.

The US has already invested too much publicity in tackling Kims regime. Another axis of evil, and all the rubbish that goes along with that label. Nah. The US will try to cause a war with N.Korea regardless of what happens. It really depends on whether S.Korea, Japan, etc actually bother to believe in them having good intentions, or whether they'll decide that now is the time to ditch US influence in Asia.

I've been seeing a lot of posts in Japanese and Korean social forums [I stay tuned since I'll be returning to Asia later this year] about an Asian alliance (to combat Chinese influence but also to remove the dependency on US aid). Japan and S.Korea working together would be a very powerful partnership, especially if they managed to get Thailand on board.

Chrongen · 08-03-2018 7:50pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The US acts out of it's own interests. It's either get behind them or be knocked down. That's Trumps attitude and it's been the general attitude of American foreign policy until Obama came along.

The US has already invested too much publicity in tackling Kims regime. Another axis of evil, and all the rubbish that goes along with that label. Nah. The US will try to cause a war with N.Korea regardless of what happens. It really depends on whether S.Korea, Japan, etc actually bother to believe in them having good intentions, or whether they'll decide that now is the time to ditch US influence in Asia.

I've been seeing a lot of posts in Japanese and Korean social forums [I stay tuned since I'll be returning to Asia later this year] about an Asian alliance (to combat Chinese influence but also to remove the dependency on US aid). Japan and S.Korea working together would be a very powerful partnership, especially if they managed to get Thailand on board.

America wants the status quo on the Korean Peninsula. Their biggest fear is a unified Korea because they'll be effectively frozen out of the South. They do not want any detente between the 2 Koreas and will do anything to scupper talks between the two. Like the Okinawans the South Koreans loathe being America's bitches.

A unified Korea could be a neutral, non-aligned country but America doesn't want this. The division of the peninsula serves it's purpose perfectly. If America stopped goading North Korea and pretending it was a pariah state bent on the destruction of the entire region then the dust would settle and the whole imbroglio could be settled through dialogue, concessions, treaties, exchanges, and the slow reconciliation of a divided people. The ceasefire could be scrapped and turned into an actually armistice

America doesn't want that.

The One Belt One Road Initiative is steaming ahead and every nation in Asia is excited about it. The New Silk Road will have high speed rail from Beijing to Berlin. Casinos are opening up in Vladivostok. Ports along the Indian Ocean are being retrofitted at a dizzying pace for trade, rail links and service stations are mushrooming up all across Eurasia.

All America can do is sit by and try to disrupt this with their usual solution to competition (that term that they always swear is the bedrock of Capitalism) by threats, subversion and military action.

Maybe if they put as much effort into cooperation they might maintain a reduced but still significant piece of the pie. But no, they've shown the world that they want it all on their terms so the world isn't playing ball anymore. And who would blame them.

Gatling · 08-03-2018 7:52pm

Chrongen wrote: »

The "free" South whose armed forces are under direct foreign command

The South Korean Army can't buy a cartridge without it being signed off by the US commander of Korea's armed forces.

No not true .

But that's not usual now is it

Chrongen · 08-03-2018 8:45pm

Gatling wrote: »

No not true .

But that's not usual now is it

Yeah, ok mate.

You make General Haig look like Rommel the amount of things you deny and persist are correct according to your own fishbowl view of the world.

You're also aware that the UK has no access to their own Trident nuclear codes right?

The US are in command of South Korean Forces and that is a sad, sorry but indisputable fact.

But other than that, South Korea is "free" :pac:

Cheerful Spring · 08-03-2018 8:56pm

Gatling wrote: »

No not true .

But that's not usual now is it

Actually, your wrong OPCON puts wartime control in the hands of America. Operationally the Americans control the South Korean military if war broke out. Most of the weapons supplied to South Koreans are made in America.

Gatling · 08-03-2018 9:30pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

a. Operationally the Americans control the South Korean military if war broke out. Most of the weapons supplied to South Koreans are made in America.

"If" war broke out ,so I'm not wrong

And south Korea has its own indigenous arms programs ,Korean weapons, vehicles , aircraft and so on . they currently export around 30bn worth of Korean military weapons and vehicles

So again I'm not wrong

Next

Gatling · 08-03-2018 9:31pm

Chrongen wrote: »

Yeah,

Yeah ,

Ted

Cheerful Spring · 08-03-2018 9:35pm

Gatling wrote: »

"If" war broke out ,so I'm not wrong

And south Korea has its own indigenous arms programs ,Korean weapons, vehicles , aircraft and so on .

So again I'm not wrong

Next

The South Korea operational command is controlled by the US military. Peacetime, wartime it doesn't matter continue on though.

Gatling · 08-03-2018 9:41pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The South Korea operational command is controlled by the US military. Peacetime, wartime it doesn't matter continue on though.

Your wrong along with the other one ,

South Korea has command of its own military there is an exception during wartime but it's not so straight forward ,if war does breakout the south Korean president has to agree to ceed control to a US command structure to allow a common defense strategy in the event the south is over run ,

Cheerful Spring · 08-03-2018 9:49pm

Gatling wrote: »

Your wrong along with the other one ,

South Korea has command of its own military there is an exception during wartime but it's not so straight forward ,if war does breakout the south Korean president has to agree to ceed control to a US command structure to allow a common defense strategy in the event the south is over run ,

America has control of all military activities during peacetime and wartime under the agreed policy of OPCON. The South Korean can't do anything on their own militarily. South Korea has no independent control of its's armed forces. If North Korea was to attack the American military will give the order to fire back.

Gatling · 08-03-2018 9:54pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The South Korean can't do anything on their own militarily. South Korea has no independent control of its's armed forces. If North Korea was to attack the American military will give the order to fire back.

Your wrong .

Amazing all the skirmishes over the last 50+ years since the peace agreement was nk Vs south Korean forces ,

No American forces involved ,

If you don't actually know don't make it up ,

cnocbui · 08-03-2018 9:58pm

Deleted User wrote: »

And haven't 'won' any of them.

First Gulf war - they nailed it.

08-03-2018 11:00pm

cnocbui wrote: »

First Gulf war - they nailed it.

Ok. You got me. Against a grossly inferior military in a conventional war with very suitable terrain.

But you're right, they won one. Kinda. Didn't they have to go back again later?

08-03-2018 11:10pm

Chrongen wrote: »

A unified Korea could be a neutral, non-aligned country but America doesn't want this.

Great post btw.

A unified Korea or even two Koreas wouldn't remain non-aligned because once the threat of N.Korea disappears, they would be able to tap into their xenophobic temperament. Most of Asia has this racism towards others, but Koreans in recent years have been developing a rather strong dislike of "Westerners". Oh, sure, the women like us

, but the men are a very different story.

I suspect Korea would turn closer to China if China can treat them as 'almost' an equal.

aloyisious · 08-03-2018 11:36pm

CNN news just reported a quote from Don Trump that there'll be a major announcement in 90 [ninety] minutes from Korea after his meeting with SK Reps in the White House. It seem's moves may be afoot on the peninsula peace front, if Don is being totally up front and not misguiding.

Cheerful Spring · 09-03-2018 12:02am

aloyisious wrote: »

CNN news just reported a quote from Don Trump that there'll be a major announcement in 90 [ninety] minutes from Korea after his meeting with SK Reps in the White House. It seem's moves may be afoot on the peninsula peace front, if Don is being totally up front and not misguiding.

Could North Korea be offering up denuclearization for the removal of US troops? This only thing makes sense. Can't see North Korea giving up its nuclear arsenal for no security guarantees? It fast moving the discussions all positive so far.

Bob24 · 09-03-2018 12:04am

Deleted User wrote: »

Great post btw.

Most of Asia has this racism towards others, but Koreans in recent years have been developing a rather strong dislike of "Westerners".

I suspect Korea would turn closer to China if China can treat them as 'almost' an equal.

The racism card is overplayed about Asians and I think the fact that many don’t want multicultural societies in their countries and have strong national pride is mistaken for racism whereas it is just a different model of society.

I’ve been to China a lot (but also Korea and Japan plus a couple of less major countries) and a lot of people there are quiet welcoming to Westerners (in my case and in China, especially since I can speak some Chinese allowing for basic communication). They however have a concept of society which is different for what is currently the dominent one in the West (to simplify, more society oriented and less individual oriented) and don’t want to change the way they are because someone in another country thinks it would be better that way. In fact it is a very Western thing to see racism everywhere (I am not saying racism doesn’t exist of course - but many here extend its definition quite beyond the original meaning of the word).

Having said that in my experience South Korea is probably the least Asian country from that perspective and the most influenced by the West and especially America. Traditional Korean society is changing more than in most other Asian countries (certainly more than in Japan or China). But having said that, of course North Korea is probably very different so it is hard to tell what the balance would be in a reunited Korea.

Gatling · 09-03-2018 12:24am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ok. You got me. Against a grossly inferior military in a conventional war with very suitable terrain.

But you're right, they won one. Kinda. Didn't they have to go back again later?

Very similar to NK actually ,

Poor equipped conscripts , poorly paid and poorly fed ,
No aircover or protection and haven't faught a war since china came to their aid in the 50's .

Despite claims on here of an 8 million man army it will go the same way,

Being you have been to Korea and actually met people and seen how they south Koreans do things do you think china would allow a united korea which would be both an economic and military threat on their door step

Chrongen · 09-03-2018 12:30am

Gatling wrote: »

Very similar to NK actually ,

Poor equipped conscripts , poorly paid and poorly fed ,
No aircover or protection and haven't faught a war since china came to their aid in the 50's .

Despite claims on here of an 8 million man army it will go the same way,

Being you have been to Korea and actually met people and seen how they south Koreans do things do you think china would allow a united korea which would be both an economic and military threat on their door step

Can you expand on how poorly and how badly paid this army is?

I'm not challengeing your knowledge or evidence, I would just like to know how YOU know the pay and the hierarchy of a foreign army.

Atlantic Dawn · 09-03-2018 12:31am

aloyisious wrote: »

CNN news just reported a quote from Don Trump that there'll be a major announcement in 90 [ninety] minutes from Korea after his meeting with SK Reps in the White House. It seem's moves may be afoot on the peninsula peace front, if Don is being totally up front and not misguiding.

Fairplay to Don, I always knew he would increase the peace.

Chrongen · 09-03-2018 12:41am

Gatling wrote: »

Very similar to NK actually ,

Poor equipped conscripts , poorly paid and poorly fed ,
No aircover or protection and haven't faught a war since china came to their aid in the 50's .

Despite claims on here of an 8 million man army it will go the same way,

Being you have been to Korea and actually met people and seen how they south Koreans do things do you think china would allow a united korea which would be both an economic and military threat on their door step

Gatling.....GATLING...Even Nero would laugh at you.

Your weapons that you get the horn for are useless.
All of them.

Would your daughter get excited about them the way you do?

09-03-2018 12:45am

Gatling wrote: »

Very similar to NK actually ,

Poor equipped conscripts , poorly paid and poorly fed ,
No aircover or protection and haven't faught a war since china came to their aid in the 50's .

Really? N.Korea has been importing Air-defence weaponry from other countries for decades, which means they have dozens of different types. US aircraft are designed for particular types of anti-air tech. A lot of the old-school AA is a serious risk to their aircraft along with radar coverage that is well established both from stationary and mobile forces. Apparently, the mingling of different systems also increases their chances of detecting stealth. Also, China would happily supply N.Korea with the armaments for testing... the very testing that they need to be sure of their own ability to take out US surveillance sats.

As for not fighting a war, sure. That's definitely a factor. How many US troops that would be sent over would have actual combat experience in large-scale operations? Not training missions. Actual combat. The US military as an institution has been fighting, but the troops deployed and fighting extensively is rather low.

Against an ideologically strong opponent. The last time they fought against a people that were so strongly supportive of the regime was Vietnam.

Despite claims on here of an 8 million man army it will go the same way,

I dunno. Between the cities, and the mountains N.Korea has plenty of terrain to bleed any US forces. It's only if they step into the open that they become vulnerable... and N.Korean forces are going to know that. They've been building fortifications for decades (old-school fortifications are still useful for infantry battles) and the US has hardly identified all of them. The US has a habit of underestimating the enemy.

Being you have been to Korea and actually met people and seen how they south Koreans do things do you think china would allow a united korea which would be both an economic and military threat on their door step

I lived in S.Korea for a year, Japan for a year, and China for 7 years. Asian countries hate America. Not dislike. Hate. The contempt they feel for Americans is incredible and only matched by their admiration for what America has achieved.

China wants to be No. 1. It's that simple. If other nations are willing to bow their heads somewhat to China, then China will allow them to prosper... because China will prosper in return. Ultimately, China will seek to conquer them... and they know it, but Asians love to talk about patience and the long-game as if they're the only ones that understand it.

The US has become kinda unpredictable since Sept 11. Very aggressive and demanding. China, on the other hand, is relatively predictable. Asians will generally appreciate the difference. So, yes, I would believe that China would allow a stronger N.Korea and a stronger S.Korea. Unification would never be allowed to happen though.

Gatling · 09-03-2018 1:17am

Kim to meet Donald in the next couple of weeks ,that's an interesting development

Cheerful Spring · 09-03-2018 1:21am

Gatling wrote: »

Kim to meet Donald in the next couple of weeks ,that's an interesting development

Very interesting indeed. Have to applaud Trump for doing it prior American presidents would have turned this offer down.

Chrongen · 09-03-2018 1:27am

Deleted User wrote: »

Really? N.Korea has been importing Air-defence weaponry from other countries for decades, which means they have dozens of different types. US aircraft are designed for particular types of anti-air tech. A lot of the old-school AA is a serious risk to their aircraft along with radar coverage that is well established both from stationary and mobile forces. Apparently, the mingling of different systems also increases their chances of detecting stealth. Also, China would happily supply N.Korea with the armaments for testing... the very testing that they need to be sure of their own ability to take out US surveillance sats.

As for not fighting a war, sure. That's definitely a factor. How many US troops that would be sent over would have actual combat experience in large-scale operations? Not training missions. Actual combat. The US military as an institution has been fighting, but the troops deployed and fighting extensively is rather low.

Against an ideologically strong opponent. The last time they fought against a people that were so strongly supportive of the regime was Vietnam.

I dunno. Between the cities, and the mountains N.Korea has plenty of terrain to bleed any US forces. It's only if they step into the open that they become vulnerable... and N.Korean forces are going to know that. They've been building fortifications for decades (old-school fortifications are still useful for infantry battles) and the US has hardly identified all of them. The US has a habit of underestimating the enemy.

I lived in S.Korea for a year, Japan for a year, and China for 7 years. Asian countries hate America. Not dislike. Hate. The contempt they feel for Americans is incredible and only matched by their admiration for what America has achieved.

China wants to be No. 1. It's that simple. If other nations are willing to bow their heads somewhat to China, then China will allow them to prosper... because China will prosper in return. Ultimately, China will seek to conquer them... and they know it, but Asians love to talk about patience and the long-game as if they're the only ones that understand it.

The US has become kinda unpredictable since Sept 11. Very aggressive and demanding. China, on the other hand, is relatively predictable. Asians will generally appreciate the difference. So, yes, I would believe that China would allow a stronger N.Korea and a stronger S.Korea. Unification would never be allowed to happen though.

Rather nicely put. A refreshing retort to the "Russia have GPS's sellotaped to the dashboards of their coal powered MiGs" or other such crap.

I love listening to pro-American bluster and arrogance. It never gets old. Even wanker comedians like Dennis Miller would stand there and crack some super joke like "How do you tell an "Eye-Raki" war hero?...He's the one who waits 10 seconds before surrendering! Hur Hur! " Not long after that Iraqi resistance fighters fought to the death against 10,000 US Marines in Falujah.

Go wipe your nose Miller.
Even the British, and I know a few who have been over in that pathetic conflict, loathe with venom the Americans they are forced to deal with.

Gatling.....there's a new scientific breakthrough in (anywhere outside of Washington).

Gatling: "Our stuff will wipe that stuff out. They are useless thickos who still rely on alchemy.

Cheerful Spring · 09-03-2018 1:33am

Chrongen wrote: »

Gatling.....there's a new scientific breakthrough in (anywhere outside of Washington).

Gatling: "Our stuff will wipe that stuff out. They are useless thickos who still rely on alchemy.

Haha, that funny describes him perfectly.

donegaLroad · 09-03-2018 1:37am

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Very interesting indeed. Have to applaud Trump for doing it prior American presidents would have turned this offer down.

Its funny how there is little or no reaction from China on the news that Trump will meet Kim Jong Un.

Gatling · 09-03-2018 1:41am

donegaLroad wrote: »

Its funny how there is little or no reaction from China on the news that Trump will meet Kim Jong Un.

They will sit quietly and say something along the lines they want to see the denuking of the peninsula , while helping accelerating NKs nuclear program

Cheerful Spring · 09-03-2018 1:43am

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Fairplay to Don, I always knew he would increase the peace.

He definitely did something to help this along but I think the North Koreans maybe for the first time be looking for genuine peace? Don attitude to this is breath of fresh air not talking never solves anything. Long way to go but Don and Kim meeting is an awesome development for the region and the world. North Korea will be better off it was more like South Korea. I just hope the Americans appreciate the move by North Korea and talk about US troop redrawal from the South.

Cheerful Spring · 09-03-2018 1:45am

donegaLroad wrote: »

Its funny how there is little or no reaction from China on the news that Trump will meet Kim Jong Un.

It only just got announced they will react in time shortly.

US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

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