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The 8th amendment(Mod warning in op)

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Comments

  • #7652
    TomSweeney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Indeed, and what a dishonest silly argument :
    like in the UK and USA where they were burning unborn babies to heat hospitals and thought nothing of it.

    When you resort to that kind of shyte you don't have a lot to go on.


  • #7653
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


  • #7654
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


  • #7655
    TomSweeney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Indeed, If only these people were as concerned for life after birth as they are supposedly before hand..


  • #7656
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    2wsxcde3 wrote:
    I was just repeating what some women do. It wasn't meant to be nasty towards women who've had a miscarriage and never thought of it that way. Though I can see what i've done now.


    I don't believe you. What could a woman bury at 4 weeks? Blood? It's either an out and out lie or the person who told you that is mentally unwell.


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  • #7657
    Andrew Beef
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 754 ✭✭✭Andrew Beef


    The rape piece is a bit of a red herring though, isn’t it?

    How many women are vaginally raped every year in Ireland? Not many I would venture; the CSO indicates that circa 2,500 sexual offences occur each year. When you remove the attacks on men, the number’s probably closer to 2,000. What’s a woman’s fertility window, perhaps four days per month? So statistically, only circa 14% of rape victims are fertile at the time of the rape. That’s 280 women. I’d be shocked if female rape victims don’t take the morning after pill which is 95% effective. So circa 14 rape victims will give birth each year; why does this number of cases dominate the debate to such a degree?


  • #7658
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Andrew Beef wrote: »
    The rape piece is a bit of a red herring though, isn’t it?

    How many women are vaginally raped every year in Ireland? Not many I would venture; the CSO indicates that circa 2,500 sexual offences occur each year. When you remove the attacks on men, the number’s probably closer to 2,000. What’s a woman’s fertility window, perhaps four days per month? So statistically, only circa 14% of rape victims are fertile at the time of the rape. That’s 280 women. I’d be shocked if female rape victims don’t take the morning after pill which is 95% effective. So circa 14 rape victims will give birth each year; why does this number of cases dominate the debate to such a degree?

    I believe you said rape victims should have the right to an abortion?
    So you brought it up this time. You were asked why, if you believe in the unborn right to life, does the unborn not have a right to life in this case?


  • #7659
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    Andrew Beef wrote:
    How many women are vaginally raped every year in Ireland? Not many I would venture; the CSO indicates that circa 2,500 sexual offences occur each year. When you remove the attacks on men, the number’s probably closer to 2,000. What’s a woman’s fertility window, perhaps four days per month? So statistically, only circa 14% of rape victims are fertile at the time of the rape. That’s 280 women. I’d be shocked if female rape victims don’t take the morning after pill which is 95% effective. So circa 14 rape victims will give birth each year; why does this number of cases dominate the debate to such a degree?


    Jesus wept is all I can say to that.


  • #7660
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Andrew Beef wrote: »
    The rape piece is a bit of a red herring though, isn’t it?

    How many women are vaginally raped every year in Ireland? Not many I would venture; the CSO indicates that circa 2,500 sexual offences occur each year. When you remove the attacks on men, the number’s probably closer to 2,000. What’s a woman’s fertility window, perhaps four days per month? So statistically, only circa 14% of rape victims are fertile at the time of the rape. That’s 280 women. I’d be shocked if female rape victims don’t take the morning after pill which is 95% effective. So circa 14 rape victims will give birth each year; why does this number of cases dominate the debate to such a degree?

    It doesn’t matter if it’s 1 woman or 1000 women.
    She should have access to a safe abortion should she want it, without any additional stress put on her by making her plead her case to rape committees.
    She doesn’t and shouldn’t have to justify herself to anyone. It’s no ones business but hers.


  • #7661
    Andrew Beef
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 754 ✭✭✭Andrew Beef


    The Rape Committee solutions stands; my only ancillary observation is that looking at the maths of it, only circa 14 babies are born as a result of rape each year so that’s the scale of the issue. On that basis, there’s no way that 14 cases should be the trojan horse for abortion on demand.

    One of the most shocking stats is that 1 in 5 pregnancies in the UK ends in abortion; do we really want a society like that where abortion is a method of contraception?


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  • #7662
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Andrew Beef wrote: »
    The Rape Committee solutions stands; my only ancillary observation is that looking at the maths of it, only circa 14 babies are born as a result of rape each year so that’s the scale of the issue. On that basis, there’s no way that 14 cases should be the trojan horse for abortion on demand.

    One of the most shocking stats is that 1 in 5 pregnancies in the UK ends in abortion; do we really want a society like that where abortion is a method of contraception?

    Your rape committee is up there as one of the worst ideas to manage abortion I’ve heard to date.
    Absolutely appalling idea, it doesn’t have the best interests of women at heart at all and would do nothing but add further distress and suffering at an already extremely vulnerable time.


  • #7663
    Andrew Beef
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 754 ✭✭✭Andrew Beef


    WhiteRoses wrote: »
    Andrew Beef wrote: »
    The Rape Committee solutions stands; my only ancillary observation is that looking at the maths of it, only circa 14 babies are born as a result of rape each year so that’s the scale of the issue. On that basis, there’s no way that 14 cases should be the trojan horse for abortion on demand.

    One of the most shocking stats is that 1 in 5 pregnancies in the UK ends in abortion; do we really want a society like that where abortion is a method of contraception?

    Your rape committee is up there as one of the worst ideas to manage abortion I’ve heard to date.
    Absolutely appalling idea, it doesn’t have the best interests of women at heart at all and would do nothing but add further distress and suffering at an already extremely vulnerable time.

    It’s designed to protect the unborn child and deal with the time-lag between conception in a rape scenario and the actual rape trial.


  • #7664
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Andrew Beef wrote: »
    It’s designed to protect the unborn child and deal with the time-lag between conception in a rape scenario and the actual rape trial.

    And add further stress and suffering to the already traumatized woman carrying that unborn child.

    Or.... here’s a mad idea... We could take all women at their word, not make them prove themselves to a panel of strangers and trust them to make the best decision for themselves by offering unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks??????


  • #7665
    Andrew Beef
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 754 ✭✭✭Andrew Beef


    WhiteRoses wrote: »
    Andrew Beef wrote: »
    It’s designed to protect the unborn child and deal with the time-lag between conception in a rape scenario and the actual rape trial.

    And add further stress and suffering to the already traumatized woman carrying that unborn child.

    Or.... here’s a mad idea... We could take all women at their word, not make them prove themselves to a panel of strangers and trust them to make the best decision for themselves by offering unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks??????

    No we shouldn’t, because the life of the unborn takes precedence over the whim of a woman, unless there is a medical issue or she has been raped. Rape cannot be proven within the relevant timescale, hence my Rape Committee solution.


  • #7666
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    Mod note: ........, please don't post in this thread again,

    Buford T. Justice.


  • #7667
    drkpower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    January wrote: »
    I'm not demeaning anyones experience. She could not have identified an embryo on a pad at that stage of gestation. As Neyite said its the size of a sesame seed.

    This person was obviously devastated by what happened to her but there's no way she knew what she was burying was an embryo but if it brought her some peace to think that she was burying her miscarried baby then she should be left to do what she felt she needed to do.

    She may have had an early pregnancy scan, so wouldn't have needed to have identified anything visually. The story posted came from a thread about pregnancy loss in IVF when people know - very very early - when they are pregnant, and - surprise surprise - can be devastated with such losses. You don't need to see humanoid features to suffer such loss.

    You have rightly decried people for judging you and your choices. You shouldn't be so quick to judge the experiences of others.


  • #7668
    JDD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭JDD


    Andrew Beef wrote: »
    No we shouldn’t, because the life of the unborn takes precedence over the whim of a woman, unless there is a medical issue or she has been raped. Rape cannot be proven within the relevant timescale, hence my Rape Committee solution.

    I call troll. Or, a pro-choice poster taking just enough of an offensive pro-life view so as to swing undecideds lurking on the thread. I don’t agree with your tactics mate.


  • #7669
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    drkpower wrote: »
    January wrote: »
    I'm not demeaning anyones experience. She could not have identified an embryo on a pad at that stage of gestation. As Neyite said its the size of a sesame seed.

    This person was obviously devastated by what happened to her but there's no way she knew what she was burying was an embryo but if it brought her some peace to think that she was burying her miscarried baby then she should be left to do what she felt she needed to do.

    She may have had an early pregnancy scan, so wouldn't have needed to have identified anything visually. The story posted came from a thread about pregnancy loss in IVF when people know - very very early - when they are pregnant, and - surprise surprise - can be devastated with such losses. You don't need to see humanoid features to suffer such loss.

    You have rightly decried people for judging you and your choices. You shouldn't be so quick to judge the experiences of others.
    Again where have I judged anyone? She couldn't have identified what was on the pad so she couldn't have known what she buried. I'm not judging her for burying anything but she may not have buried what she thought was an embryo.


  • #7670
    Andrew Beef
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 754 ✭✭✭Andrew Beef


    There’s a saying that hard cases make bad law; never has that been truer than in relation to abortion. The outliers (e.g. rape and incest) cannot dominate the agenda. And there will be stories (like that woman burying the foetus in her garden) that will melt hearts and make us throw logic out the window.


  • #7671
    JDD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭JDD


    Andrew Beef wrote: »
    There’s a saying that hard cases make bad law; never has that been truer than in relation to abortion. The outliers (e.g. rape and incest) cannot dominate the agenda. And there will be stories (like that woman burying the foetus in her garden) that will melt hearts and make us throw logic out the window.

    I actually agree with that. I think the legal choice should be either available abortion to twelve weeks, or completely outlawed. Making exceptions for anything other than FFA just makes the whole system open to abuse to the point it becomes an absurdity.


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  • #7672
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Andrew Beef wrote: »
    The Rape Committee solutions stands; my only ancillary observation is that looking at the maths of it, only circa 14 babies are born as a result of rape each year so that’s the scale of the issue. On that basis, there’s no way that 14 cases should be the trojan horse for abortion on demand.

    One of the most shocking stats is that 1 in 5 pregnancies in the UK ends in abortion; do we really want a society like that where abortion is a method of contraception?

    Your rape committe idea of putting women on trial so they could get an abortion is disgusting.
    You still haven't answered the question why a pregnancy from rape has less of a right to life than any other pregnancy?

    And where does it say that abortion in England is used as contraception? Any idea how many Irish pregnancies end in abortion?
    You do know what contraception is right? By definition, abortion cannot be a contraceptive.


  • #7673
    captbarnacles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,972 ✭✭✭captbarnacles


    JDD wrote: »
    I call troll. Or, a pro-choice poster taking just enough of an offensive pro-life view so as to swing undecideds lurking on the thread. I don’t agree with your tactics mate.

    I snarkily suggested the idea of a 'committee' to decide which women were lying earlier in the thread.....and here we are.


  • #7674
    Andrew Beef
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 754 ✭✭✭Andrew Beef


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Andrew Beef wrote: »
    The Rape Committee solutions stands; my only ancillary observation is that looking at the maths of it, only circa 14 babies are born as a result of rape each year so that’s the scale of the issue. On that basis, there’s no way that 14 cases should be the trojan horse for abortion on demand.

    One of the most shocking stats is that 1 in 5 pregnancies in the UK ends in abortion; do we really want a society like that where abortion is a method of contraception?

    Your rape committe idea of putting women on trial so they could get an abortion is disgusting.
    You still haven't answered the question why a pregnancy from rape has less of a right to life than any other pregnancy?

    And where does it say that abortion in England is used as contraception? Any idea how many Irish pregnancies end in abortion?
    You do know what contraception is right? By definition, abortion cannot be a contraceptive.

    20% of pregnancies in the UK end in abortion; are they all rape and incest cases?! That’s abortion as a form of contraception.


  • #7675
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    Andrew Beef wrote: »
    bubblypop wrote: »
    Andrew Beef wrote: »
    The Rape Committee solutions stands; my only ancillary observation is that looking at the maths of it, only circa 14 babies are born as a result of rape each year so that’s the scale of the issue. On that basis, there’s no way that 14 cases should be the trojan horse for abortion on demand.

    One of the most shocking stats is that 1 in 5 pregnancies in the UK ends in abortion; do we really want a society like that where abortion is a method of contraception?

    Your rape committe idea of putting women on trial so they could get an abortion is disgusting.
    You still haven't answered the question why a pregnancy from rape has less of a right to life than any other pregnancy?

    And where does it say that abortion in England is used as contraception? Any idea how many Irish pregnancies end in abortion?
    You do know what contraception is right? By definition, abortion cannot be a contraceptive.

    20% of pregnancies in the UK end in abortion; are they all rape and incest cases?! That’s abortion as a form of contraception.
    Abortion cannot be used as contraception as conception has already occurred.


  • #7676
    Andrew Beef
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 754 ✭✭✭Andrew Beef


    That’s semantics; it can be used as a form of retrospective contraception.


  • #7677
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Andrew Beef wrote: »
    20% of pregnancies in the UK end in abortion; are they all rape and incest cases?! That’s abortion as a form of contraception.

    So you actually know what contraception is?
    No one said abortions in the UK are anything other than unwanted pregnancies. Including unwanted Irish pregnancies!
    You know, the right we have enshrined in the constitution, the right to travel?


  • #7678
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Andrew Beef wrote: »
    That’s semantics; it can be used as a form of retrospective contraception.

    There's no such thing.
    Contraception is the prevention of pregnancy.


  • #7679
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    Andrew Beef wrote: »
    One of the most shocking stats is that 1 in 5 pregnancies in the UK ends in abortion; do we really want a society like that where abortion is a method of contraception?

    I'd rather have it out in the open and a safe, legal and free option than the current situation in Ireland where it's a mishmash of travel and pills ordered illegally.


  • #7680
    Victor Cold Marsupial
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Victor Cold Marsupial


    has anyone told him the miscarriage rate


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  • #7681
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    And this is what we're arguing with folks... Retrospective contraception is a thing. Yup.


This discussion has been closed.
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