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The 8th amendment(Mod warning in op)

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Comments

  • #7172
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


  • #7173
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    pleas advice wrote: »
    You ask what their views are, that's their views right there
    'it's alive! Abortion is murder'

    Its no more complicated than that

    Why should that view top my view that it’s not alive, abortion isn’t murder, and I should get ultimate day about what’s allowed in my body?


  • #7174
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    pleas advice wrote: »
    You ask what their views are, that's their views right there
    'it's alive! Abortion is murder'

    Its no more complicated than that
    So what you're saying is that they're simpletons?

    If it's "no more complicated than that" in their heads, then clearly they haven't, or refuse to, give it much thought.

    Because the issue itself is far more complicated than that, which can't be disregarded with, "Well, I believe it's murder and that's that".


  • #7175
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    To paraphrase Panti

    "It turns out that women are not the victims of misogyny: misogynists are the victims of misogyny."


  • #7176
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    pleas advice wrote: »
    they're not all ignorant misogynist control freaks, out to destroy young girls and women's life's for ****s and giggles...

    But that has been the consequence.


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  • #7177
    ToddyDoody
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,417 ✭✭✭ToddyDoody


    They call it the ate ammendment in Carlow.


  • #7178
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    To paraphrase Panti

    "It turns out that women are not the victims of misogyny: misogynists are the victims of misogyny."

    You come across this a lot alright - people who think of themselves as good, kind, loving, moral men and women but who will happily vote for things which hurt other people.

    Like people who voted against marriage equality - if you pointed out to them that their actions actually hurt the lives of innocent people, they got all huffy and offended that anyone would dare to say they were selfish or unkind. 'I'm entitled to my opinion!' they shouted, enraged at any and all criticism.


  • #7179
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,143 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    pleas advice wrote: »
    To see where they are coming from, that they're not all ignorant misogynist control freaks, out to destroy young girls and women's life's for ****s and giggles...

    #NotAllProLifers


  • #7180
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    I was discussing the referendum recently with a pro life relative.

    They didn’t have much to offer beyond the usual ‘its wrong, it’s murder etc’ speech.

    When he realized he had pretty much no argument he said ‘I’m entitled to have my opinion and have my say on the matter!!’.

    The irony of the fact that he was aggressively defending his right to choose to vote on the matter was lost on him, particularly when I pointed out that his choice in the referendum determines whether I will be allowed to have a choice over my own body.
    He just didn’t get it.
    Some people can’t see the wood from the trees.


  • #7181
    pitifulgod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭pitifulgod


    pleas advice wrote: »
    You ask what their views are, that's their views right there
    'it's alive! Abortion is murder'

    Its no more complicated than that

    You don't see how that's loaded language? Should women be convicted for murder because of their abortions?


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  • #7182
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    I just used that posters words, call it what you like it's the intentional ending of a genetically separate, human, life.

    Call it whatever you like, that's what it is.


  • #7183
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    pleas advice wrote: »
    I just used that posters words, call it what you like it's the intentional ending of a genetically separate, human, life.

    Call it whatever you like, that's what it is.

    So is refusing vital health care treatment but a vote to keep the 8th allows exactly that to happen.


  • #7184
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    #NotAllProLifers

    What's this nonsense? Do you seriously believe that there are people out there who see a fetus as nothing more than a bunch of cells, a parasite, but are 'pro life' just to 'keep women in their place'?


  • #7185
    pitifulgod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭pitifulgod


    pleas advice wrote: »
    I just used that posters words, call it what you like it's the intentional ending of a genetically separate, human, life.

    Call it whatever you like, that's what it is.

    Do you think women should be convicted for abortions obtained here?


  • #7186
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    pleas advice wrote: »
    What's this nonsense? Do you seriously believe that there are people out there who see a fetus as nothing more than a bunch of cells, a parasite, but are 'pro life' just to 'keep women in their place'?

    Methinks the poster doth protest too much. :rolleyes:


  • #7187
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    pleas advice wrote: »
    What's this nonsense? Do you seriously believe that there are people out there who see a fetus as nothing more than a bunch of cells, a parasite, but are 'pro life' just to 'keep women in their place'?

    Bingo. Yes there are people exactly like that out there.


  • #7188
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    pitifulgod wrote: »
    Do you think women should be convicted for abortions obtained here?

    Me, personally. No. Nor for importing abortion pills, or taking them.


  • #7189
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    pleas advice wrote: »
    I just used that posters words, call it what you like it's the intentional ending of a genetically separate, human, life.

    Call it whatever you like, that's what it is.

    But why should that view trump my view that it's not alive, abortion isn't murder, and I should have 100% control about what happens my body?


  • #7190
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    January wrote: »
    Bingo. Yes there are people exactly like that out there.

    And do you think they are a sizeable proportion, or ...?


  • #7191
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    pleas advice wrote: »
    Me, personally. No. Nor for importing abortion pills, or taking them.

    Grand, so you've no problem with abortion. Go away and stop annoying everyone with your constant questions.


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  • #7192
    frag420
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,161 ✭✭✭frag420


    ***Dear Pro Lifers, before you ask what mother would refuse to help their child, that is not the point of the question below! ***

    So from reading this thread and others as well as talking to a lot of pro life people both online and in real life one thing that is always put forward as a justification for keeping the 8th is that a fetus inside a woman cannot survive on its own and thus deserves the right to life via the woman's body as it depends on the body of the woman to develop.

    Now the pro life side equate a fetus to a child, to a teenager, to an adult etc etc etc...they are all life and are all equal, that much they ave made very clear!

    So say a child is born, it is outside the womb, its is a breathing living human. After a month that child develops a fatal condition that requires blood or marrow or an organ(i know they would be too big for a new born but work with me here).

    Now much like the fetus inside the womb the child requires the nourishment and care of the mother to live and develop outside the womb as inside the womb.

    Are you in agreement that the mother should be forced to provide marrow or blood or an organ to keep that child alive same as you expect a pregnant woman to provide for the unborn?


  • #7193
    PhoenixParker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭PhoenixParker


    frag420 wrote: »
    ***Dear Pro Lifers, before you ask what mother would refuse to help their child, that is not the point of the question below! ***

    So from reading this thread and others as well as talking to a lot of pro life people both online and in real life one thing that is always put forward as a justification for keeping the 8th is that a fetus inside a woman cannot survive on its own and thus deserves the right to life via the woman's body as it depends on the body of the woman to develop.

    Now the pro life side equate a fetus to a child, to a teenager, to an adult etc etc etc...they are all life and are all equal, that much they ave made very clear!

    So say a child is born, it is outside the womb, its is a breathing living human. After a month that child develops a fatal condition that requires blood or marrow or an organ(i know they would be too big for a new born but work with me here).

    Now much like the fetus inside the womb the child requires the nourishment and care of the mother to live and develop outside the womb as inside the womb.

    Are you in agreement that the father who didnt want the baby in the first place should be forced to provide marrow or blood or an organ to keep that child alive same as you expect a pregnant woman to provide for the unborn?

    Ftfy


  • #7194
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    kylith wrote: »
    Why should that view top my view that it’s not alive, abortion isn’t murder, and I should get ultimate day about what’s allowed in my body?

    If it is not alive, then why does the life in the womb have to be terminated?


  • #7195
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    RobertKK wrote: »
    If it is not alive, then why does the life in the womb have to be terminated?
    The pregnancy is terminated.


  • #7196
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,143 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    pleas advice wrote: »
    What's this nonsense? Do you seriously believe that there are people out there who see a fetus as nothing more than a bunch of cells, a parasite, but are 'pro life' just to 'keep women in their place'?

    Yes, I think that in a country of 4.6 million there are some people in Ireland who are pro-life not because of their religious beliefs, but out of batshit-crazy sexism, sometimes the kind that gives rise to conspiracy theories about soy products.


  • #7197
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    frag420 wrote: »
    ***Dear Pro Lifers, before you ask what mother would refuse to help their child, that is not the point of the question below! ***

    So from reading this thread and others as well as talking to a lot of pro life people both online and in real life one thing that is always put forward as a justification for keeping the 8th is that a fetus inside a woman cannot survive on its own and thus deserves the right to life via the woman's body as it depends on the body of the woman to develop.

    Now the pro life side equate a fetus to a child, to a teenager, to an adult etc etc etc...they are all life and are all equal, that much they ave made very clear!

    So say a child is born, it is outside the womb, its is a breathing living human. After a month that child develops a fatal condition that requires blood or marrow or an organ(i know they would be too big for a new born but work with me here).

    Now much like the fetus inside the womb the child requires the nourishment and care of the mother to live and develop outside the womb as inside the womb.

    Are you in agreement that the mother should be forced to provide marrow or blood or an organ to keep that child alive same as you expect a pregnant woman to provide for the unborn?

    The problem with your example is that nobody has said the relationship between the mother and baby does not change. I doubt you'll find many who say that the relationship between mother and child should be the same as the relationship between mother and fetus in the same way you won't find many who think the relationship between mother and infant are the same as the relationship between mother and teenager.


  • #7198
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    pleas advice wrote: »
    What's this nonsense? Do you seriously believe that there are people out there who see a fetus as nothing more than a bunch of cells, a parasite, but are 'pro life' just to 'keep women in their place'?

    I would encourage you to look at some of the comments on the pro life pages and you will find there are people who are exactly like that. I've been told on one of those pages that I'm a slut, I should be sterilised, be jailed, that I'm a terrible mother, that I'm trying to encourage women to lose the run of themselves, I've seen others called similar things or worse. Just for supporting repeal. It's all about control, about shaming normal sexual behaviour and trying to make women feel bad for wanting choice.


  • #7199
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    The back and forth here is so pointless.

    It's very simple. If you don't want or support abortion, do not get one. But just because you personally dislike it, does not mean that you should prevent others from being able to do so if that is what's right for them.

    Quite frankly an awful lot of women I've spoken to about this have said they'd never have an abortion, but know they should have the right to do so.


  • #7200
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    pilly wrote: »
    Grand, so you've no problem with abortion. Go away and stop annoying everyone with your constant questions.
    Mod note: pilly, please take a 24 hour break from posting on this thread, please.

    Buford T. Justice


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  • #7201
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    The back and forth here is so pointless.

    It's very simple. If you don't want or support abortion, do not get one. But just because you personally dislike it, does not mean that you should prevent others from being able to do so if that is what's right for them.

    Quite frankly an awful lot of women I've spoken to about this have said they'd never have an abortion, but know they should have the right to do so.

    The back and forth is only pointless because people like yourself refuse to look at the issue from the the point of view of the other side. Pro life people believe a life is being destroyed. Saying "If you don't want or support abortion, do not get one" to someone who believes this is no different then saying "If you don't support child abuse then don't touch children. No need to prevent others from doing it."


This discussion has been closed.
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