The 8th amendment(Mod warning in op)

I just used that posters words, call it what you like it's the intentional ending of a genetically separate, human, life.

Call it whatever you like, that's what it is.

pitifulgod

pleas advice wrote: »

You ask what their views are, that's their views right there
'it's alive! Abortion is murder'

Its no more complicated than that

You don't see how that's loaded language? Should women be convicted for murder because of their abortions?

SusieBlue

I was discussing the referendum recently with a pro life relative.

They didn’t have much to offer beyond the usual ‘its wrong, it’s murder etc’ speech.

When he realized he had pretty much no argument he said ‘I’m entitled to have my opinion and have my say on the matter!!’.

The irony of the fact that he was aggressively defending his right to choose to vote on the matter was lost on him, particularly when I pointed out that his choice in the referendum determines whether I will be allowed to have a choice over my own body.
He just didn’t get it.
Some people can’t see the wood from the trees.

PopePalpatine

pleas advice wrote: »

To see where they are coming from, that they're not all ignorant misogynist control freaks, out to destroy young girls and women's life's for ****s and giggles...

#NotAllProLifers

B0jangles

Bannasidhe wrote: »

To paraphrase Panti

"It turns out that women are not the victims of misogyny: misogynists are the victims of misogyny."

You come across this a lot alright - people who think of themselves as good, kind, loving, moral men and women but who will happily vote for things which hurt other people.

Like people who voted against marriage equality - if you pointed out to them that their actions actually hurt the lives of innocent people, they got all huffy and offended that anyone would dare to say they were selfish or unkind. 'I'm entitled to my opinion!' they shouted, enraged at any and all criticism.

ToddyDoody

They call it the ate ammendment in Carlow.

Bannasidhe

pleas advice wrote: »

they're not all ignorant misogynist control freaks, out to destroy young girls and women's life's for ****s and giggles...

But that has been the consequence.

Bannasidhe

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

To paraphrase Panti

"It turns out that women are not the victims of misogyny: misogynists are the victims of misogyny."

seamus

pleas advice wrote: »

You ask what their views are, that's their views right there
'it's alive! Abortion is murder'

Its no more complicated than that

So what you're saying is that they're simpletons?

If it's "no more complicated than that" in their heads, then clearly they haven't, or refuse to, give it much thought.

Because the issue itself is far more complicated than that, which can't be disregarded with, "Well, I believe it's murder and that's that".

kylith

pleas advice wrote: »

You ask what their views are, that's their views right there
'it's alive! Abortion is murder'

Its no more complicated than that

Why should that view top my view that it’s not alive, abortion isn’t murder, and I should get ultimate day about what’s allowed in my body?

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Night Falls

pilly wrote: »

Why are you referring to "they"? You can not speak for a whole section of society. Speak for yourself and lay off the sound bites.

You're ask people to listen to views when your views are summarised in one sentence. People don't agree. What's to understand?

The hilarious thing is that someone is surprised that people might get angry at being labelled as murderers.

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pilly

Why are you referring to "they"? You can not speak for a whole section of society. Speak for yourself and lay off the sound bites.

You're ask people to listen to views when your views are summarised in one sentence. People don't agree. What's to understand?

To see where they are coming from, that they're not all ignorant misogynist control freaks, out to destroy young girls and women's life's for ****s and giggles...

pleas advice wrote: »

You ask what their views are, that's their views right there
'it's alive! Abortion is murder'

Its no more complicated than that

They are wrong as a simple matter of fact.

What was the point of trying to understand this again?

You ask what their views are, that's their views right there
'it's alive! Abortion is murder'

Its no more complicated than that

kylith

pleas advice wrote: »

Well I mean, if you understood their actual views, and not just what you think their views are, maybe you'd see where they were coming from a little better?

Well, what are their views then? Because ‘it’s alive! Abortion is murder’ is just an opinion and I have never been given any good reason why that opinion should be given any weight.

B0jangles

pleas advice wrote: »

Im sensing a little hostility here?

I don't think you quite grasp that for Irish women this is not just an interesting ethical conundrum, it's quite literally a matter of life and death for some, of permanent disability or pain for others, and for the risk of those two for all Irish women.

It's easy to be calm and dispassionate about something when it poses no personal risk to you.

pleas advice wrote: »

Im sensing a little hostility here?

Yes, of course, with good reason.

Im sensing a little hostility here?

pleas advice wrote: »

Well I mean, if you understood their actual views, and not just what you think their views are, maybe you'd see where they were coming from a little better?

... and then what?

They voted in the 8th, caused all these problems, and have resisted fixing them for 30 years. What benefit is supposed to flow from seeing where they are coming from?

I say we just vote them into the stone age where they belong.

pilly

pleas advice wrote: »

Well I mean, if you understood their actual views, and not just what you think their views are, maybe you'd see where they were coming from a little better?

Why don't you take your own advice and stop copy and pasting it to everyone else?

And how do you know any better what people's actual views are? You can only speak for yourself not a whole section of society.

I've named numerous reasons that I think men are anti-choice. Not just one so I'm not assuming anything.

pilly wrote: »

What I find more difficult to understand are the young men with these same views. Where the hell are they getting it from? Do they not have mothers or sisters?

Well I mean, if you understood their actual views, and not just what you think their views are, maybe you'd see where they were coming from a little better?

This post has been deleted.

pilly

seamus wrote: »

It's everywhere, and it's quite incredible. Even taking the fact that many platforms tend to be male-heavy anyway, I very rarely see any women holding a pro-life position and getting into heated debates about it.

Go onto twitter, and aside from the odd God-botherer putting in a throwaway comment, the ones engaging in huge pro-life threads are always men.

I'm not really willing to write it off as, "Ah, just a load of women-haters" myself. I'm genuinely curious to know what it's all about, and why women seem to be so massively underrepresented in pro-life circles.

Most of the people at the top level of the pro-choice campaigns, are women. Most of those at the top level of the pro-life campaign, are men.

Could it really be as simple as misogyny?

I think it's a mixture of misogyny and pure ignorance.

A man can never know what it's like to be pregnant and not want to be, it's as simple as that. No matter how much they protest, they will never ever experience that.

Another male poster has actually said it's not that big a deal to carry a child to term and give birth to it and then you can do what you want. Pure ignorance.

It's also a control issue. Some men want control over women, always have done and always will do, nothing will change them. On the plus side more and more of those type of men are dying off.

What I find more difficult to understand are the young men with these same views. Where the hell are they getting it from? Do they not have mothers or sisters?

pleas advice wrote: »

Not second, equal. (in regards a right to exist)

This is exactly what killed Savita Hallapanavar.

Even though everyone knew the fetus could not survive, until either it was dead or her life was in danger, she was denied a termination (which she requested).

By the time the medical team decided her life was in danger, they were too late.

Yes, yes, we all know the team made mistakes, but without the 8th they would not have been in the position to make mistakes. The termination would have been routine, she'd be alive and maybe had another child by now (as it was a wanted pregnancy).

pleas advice wrote: »

better?

SIMPLY BY VIRTUE OF BEING TAXONOMICALLY HUMAN, these entities should acquire some rights (in the view of most 'pro-lifers')

So, what are you doing to ban IVF and repeal the 13th amendment?

kylith

pleas advice wrote: »

Not second, equal. (in regards a right to exist)

When one organism co-opts another’s body they can’t both have equal rights. Giving the fetus an inviolable right to exist means that the living woman loses her rights to bodily autonomy.