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Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

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    #542
    Shauny2010
    Closed Accounts Posts: 657 ✭✭✭Shauny2010


    sabat wrote: »
    Hundreds of billions in real money has been lost this time. That's just not coming back.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPD5q6DC43M

    Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong
    It didn't take hundreds of billions to reduce the price it just took the weak holders to sell.
    cmc does not give a true reflection of market caps
    Its already drifting back up.


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    #543
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    lostboy75 wrote: »
    I bought a pizza once for 10,000 BTC
    In hind sight that may have been a bad idea, but it was tasty at the time

    Something tells me you're not being serious..
    But I was genuinely interested as to whether anyone here has used any of it as an actual currency..


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    #544
    lostboy75
    Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭lostboy75


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Something tells me you're not being serious..
    But I was genuinely interested as to whether anyone here has used any of it as an actual currency..
    That was referencing the very first BTC transaction. there are rumours it wasn't by me. I don't knew for certain though.
    And as an actual answer, no I have never bought anything directly with any crypto.
    It is possible, but my beliefs are, it's still in it's infancy, it will take more time to grow and stabilise. That will help sort out the fluctuations to some degree


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    #545
    worded
    Registered Users Posts: 4,535 ✭✭✭worded


    Crypto N00b

    Just opened a www.coinbase.com account and thinking of buying ...

    Tonight or tomorrow or soon ....

    Anyone any advice? (aside from gamble what you can afford to loose?)

    Buy all bitcoin or mix it up with Ethereum ?


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    #546
    BizWiz66
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭BizWiz66


    I actually just bought some products last week with Bitcoins from this Irish company, they accept Bitcoins :D:D:D https://www.evolutionisland.com/ , no sure how many others do though, not many yet I guess.


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    #547
    lifeandtimes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭lifeandtimes


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Have you actually bought anything with it?

    I bought a football jersey for an American "soccer" team who are sponsored by an altcoin I'm invested in just today. They advertise our logo on their shirt so I felt i couldn't pass up the opportunity.

    But yes I buy things online,legal things like products in different countries and home grown places like marvin.ie.

    I actually cant wait for the crypto coffee shop in aungier street to open up


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    #548
    Pintman Paddy Losty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,913 ✭✭✭Pintman Paddy Losty


    lifeandtimes wrote: »
    I bought a football jersey for an American "soccer" team who are sponsored by an altcoin I'm invested in just today. They advertise our logo on their shirt so I felt i couldn't pass up the opportunity.

    But yes I buy things online,legal things like products in different countries and home grown places like marvin.ie.

    I actually cant wait for the crypto coffee shop in aungier street to open up

    So you bought a soccer jersey yesterday...let's say you paid 50 spoofcoins for it...which yesterday cost 50 euros... does it not concern you that a month ago those same 50 spoofcoins would have bought you 4 jerseys and a month from now they will buy you jack ****?


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    #549
    lifeandtimes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭lifeandtimes


    Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »
    So you bought a soccer jersey yesterday...let's say you paid 50 spoofcoins for it...which yesterday cost 50 euros... does it not concern you that a month ago those same 50 spoofcoins would have bought you 4 jerseys and a month from now they will buy you jack ****?

    No

    If I go to an off license in Ireland I can get 8 cans of bulmers for 12 quid.

    In Spain I can get the same for 6 quid

    All the while your comments will still be worth b0ll0x


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    #550
    makeorbrake
    Registered Users Posts: 4,664 ✭✭✭makeorbrake


    Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »
    So you bought a soccer jersey yesterday...let's say you paid 50 spoofcoins for it...which yesterday cost 50 euros... does it not concern you that a month ago those same 50 spoofcoins would have bought you 4 jerseys and a month from now they will buy you jack ****?

    When the internet was in it's infancy, did you go around telling everyone, this internet thing is b0ll0x - it's slow, there's nothing practical you can do with it - yet all these fools are going round saying it's the future?....because that's the analogy of what you're doing here.

    Has there been speculation - and fickle speculation - yes there has. Cryptocurrency didn't invent speculation. It's a distraction from the actual technology.

    Did BTC function as a transactional currency up until recently - yes it did until it hit a scaling issue. Are there developers working on addressing that? Yes there are. Did the internet have the same scaling issue - yes it did.


    You also complain about volatility. Of course - it's a problem right now. Will that always be the case - IF cryptocurrency sticks around - over time, that will be less pronounced.

    All of you guys are saying it's rubbish - and won't consider the fact that it's an innovative work in progress.


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    #551
    sabat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭sabat


    Shauny2010 wrote: »

    Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong
    It didn't take hundreds of billions to reduce the price it just took the weak holders to sell.
    cmc does not give a true reflection of market caps
    Its already drifting back up.

    OK then, how much has been lost by the newest investors across all crypto currencies since the peak? How much of that was borrowed? How much of that was stolen/misappropriated in order to gamble? To what degree was the price manipulated by tether?


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    #552
    rapul
    Registered Users Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭rapul


    Oh my god will you all calm down, who hurt you lads ,was it bitcoin itself? If you put as much effort into anything else other than these posts you know you might learn something or has been stated if you bought yesterday you would be in profit today, it's just ridiculous how much negativity your all spouting, how about we start saying no your wrong for buying that car or your house is just crap , who hurt you lads?

    Edit: Johnny you crack me up, absolute keyboard warriors ,spoofcoin grow up!


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    #553
    h0neybadger
    Registered Users Posts: 321 ✭✭h0neybadger


    This was a nice thread until a certain few started to post here.

    I’m unsubscribing from the Crypto forum as it’s just too dramatic for what it should be.


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    #554
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,835 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    h0neybadger wrote: »
    I’m unsubscribing from the Crypto forum

    Please don't. Many posters in here are intelligent and reasonable and see virtue / value in blockchain technologies per se, in investing in it or even speculating with it or creating with it or mining it. And want to talk about it!

    There are always nay sayers whenever there is anything new. Let's all just chill and get along. Worst thing happening to anyone invested in crypto is that the other party will say "I told you so" after each downturn in value. Worst thing happening to the nay sayers is when someone invested a coupla dollars in crypto shows them their new lambo :D


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    #555
    rapul
    Registered Users Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭rapul


    h0neybadger wrote: »
    This was a nice thread until a certain few started to post here.

    I’m unsubscribing from the Crypto forum as it’s just too dramatic for what it should be.

    Agreed it's just gone beyond.
    This will be my last post in this thread for sure ,perhaps the Crypto forum I shall see.


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    #556
    Dr Bolouswki
    Registered Users Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭Dr Bolouswki


    I find it quite easy to ignore the jabbering imbeciles. I sometimes weaken, but mostly I just let them get on with their half baked, confused and self contradictory ramblings. My dog can put together more cohesive analysis. Hell, the dump I took this morning could.


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    #557
    grindle
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭grindle


    sabat wrote: »
    OK then, how much has been lost by the newest investors across all crypto currencies since the peak?

    Did they pay a price that was fair to them at the time?
    They thought so, presumably. They've got the same assets until they sell so it's not a loss unless they sell lower than their buy-in.
    If they bought in order to make "quick gains" ("IT'S UP 1000% IN A MONTH, ZOMG I'VE GOT TO BUY IT!") then they don't really give a toss about the wider market and deserve every failure they sign up for. Their decision.
    sabat wrote: »
    How much of that was borrowed?
    Hopefully none but there are always some idiots (as evinced by the path this thread and others have taken).
    sabat wrote: »
    How much of that was stolen/misappropriated in order to gamble?
    Not sure what this means. Are you talking about people exit-scamming from ICOs and playing with that money? People placing their money into bona fide ponzis like BitConnect and making a loss (what a surprise)?
    They should do their research instead of throwing good money after bad at scams.
    sabat wrote: »
    To what degree was the price manipulated by tether?
    To a massive degree. Most people see Tether's cap and don't seem to realise it's not just a $2.2b pimple on the face of crypto, it was purposefully injected at the exact moments when BTC's rallies started flagging and in order to be genuine it would have to have been sold to those trading it 1:1 with USD or bought by the exchanges for that amount of USD. Which likely did not happen.
    It's available on exchanges which for the most part have no "USD" option besides USDT and no fiat gateway so the most probable outcome is that it was sold directly from exchange for BTC and then pumped back in when the 15m charts and depth charts looked ripe.
    It's the ultimate wash trading device for whales because having "USD" as a prefix provides some notion of safety to newbs while the ultimate goal for whales is to manipulate to the point where they own as much of an asset as possible in order to rinse and repeat the market manipulation. People who trade for a living and quants know how to play this game, the average mong loses.
    Despite that clear manipulation it's up to the mongs what price they buy and sell at so it's nobody's fault but their own if they consider themselves burnt - they've burnt themselves by playing a game that's over their heads. If they're not controlling the market but they still play the game they're essentially offering themselves.

    Anybody panic-selling or trying to guess bottoms yesterday deserved what they got - it's the game they were playing & the gamble they took.


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    #558
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,238 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    In fairness, the volatility of the currency at this time is precisely why various vendors have stopped accepting bitcoins as a mode of payment. How do you value a good or service in BTC on your website when the thing is going up or down 5% in a matter of minutes, unless you want to tie it to ‘current dollar value”, which seems a bit tricky to program? This does not seem unreasonable at this time. I’m sure they’ll go back to accepting, but not until things settle down.

    I will raise a hand and say that right now I am not investing, I am speculating. Gambling, even, but even gamblers play odds based on some research.

    That said, I really could do without these swings. I don’t want my portfolio up twenty percent, down ten, up ten, down five. I would be more satisfied with 0.5% every day... It would add up quickly enough.


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    #559
    Tinder Surprise
    Registered Users Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭Tinder Surprise


    Dr Bolouswki wrote: »
    I find it quite easy to ignore the jabbering imbeciles. I sometimes weaken, but mostly I just let them get on with their half baked, confused and self contradictory ramblings. My dog can put together more cohesive analysis. Hell, the dump I took this morning could.

    Why do I always read your posts in a Morgan Freeman voice

    :p


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    #560
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,888 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    The thread title is inviting people like myself in voicing are concernes about the currency. Maybe changing the title might put off negative posts.


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    #561
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,888 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    The thread title is inviting people like myself in voicing are concernes about the currency. Maybe changing the title might put off negative posts.


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    #562
    lostboy75
    Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭lostboy75


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    The thread title is inviting people like myself in voicing are concernes about the currency. Maybe changing the title might put off negative posts.
    My view is I welcome reasoned debate. And if your here to add to that, great, welcome.
    What is winding several regulars up is certain posters. they are like a broken record, endlessly repeating their beliefs, who do not want to listen to counter-arguments.
    What does the future bring, well no one knows for certain. But I'm pretty sure it will contain blockchain, and cryptos.


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    #563
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,888 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    lostboy75 wrote: »
    My view is I welcome reasoned debate. And if your here to add to that, great, welcome.
    What is winding several regulars up is certain posters. they are like a broken record, endlessly repeating their beliefs, who do not want to listen to counter-arguments.
    What does the future bring, well no one knows for certain. But I'm pretty sure it will contain blockchain, and cryptos.


    I'm not here to bash you guys. I'm genuinely worried that its a house of cards but I'm not wishing it'll collapse . I'm genuinely delighted for you if you make a killing


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    #564
    grindle
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭grindle


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    The thread title is inviting people like myself in voicing are concernes about the currency. Maybe changing the title might put off negative posts.

    A very quick read of the first post should give an indication of what the thread was about - basically "Hey everybody, how do ye feel about general market sentiment?"

    Which got hijacked by a bunch who literally don't know what a Ponzi or a pyramid scheme is and can't see value in things they can't touch - probably while streaming movies and music they can't touch using a technology they also can't fathom with bandwidth they can't touch yet persistently pay money for - sometimes they even pay more for extra bandwidth or specifically choose certain providers based on the strength of the network!
    Can you imagine that? Paying money to be on a strong network? Choosing a provider based on different attributes?
    Crazy notion altogether, never going to work, something something ponzyramid


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    #565
    Tinder Surprise
    Registered Users Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭Tinder Surprise


    grindle wrote: »
    ponzyramid


    :D:pac:

    Just found my new username...how does one go about getting their username changed on here?


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    #566
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,645 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    grindle wrote: »
    A very quick read of the first post should give an indication of what the thread was about - basically "Hey everybody, how do ye feel about general market sentiment?"

    Which got hijacked by a bunch who literally don't know what a Ponzi or a pyramid scheme is and can't see value in things they can't touch - probably while streaming movies and music they can't touch using a technology they also can't fathom with bandwidth they can't touch yet persistently pay money for - sometimes they even pay more for extra bandwidth or specifically choose certain providers based on the strength of the network!
    Can you imagine that? Paying money to be on a strong network? Choosing a provider based on different attributes?
    Crazy notion altogether, never going to work, something something ponzyramid

    Yeah fair point but super telling that people shouting for folks to 'hooooold' and stay in the game are doing it for their own benefit not some form of altruistic advice giving ....


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    #567
    jasper100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 455 ✭✭jasper100


    listermint wrote: »
    Yeah fair point but super telling that people shouting for folks to 'hooooold' and stay in the game are doing it for their own benefit not some form of altruistic advice giving ....

    Ah get with the program now, they have their own special little word for that and all its "HODL" didn't you know.

    But you are correct. Advising people to hold purely because they want their own investment value not to collapse.


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    #568
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    grindle wrote: »
    A very quick read of the first post should give an indication of what the thread was about - basically "Hey everybody, how do ye feel about general market sentiment?"

    Which got hijacked by a bunch who literally don't know what a Ponzi or a pyramid scheme is and can't see value in things they can't touch - probably while streaming movies and music they can't touch using a technology they also can't fathom with bandwidth they can't touch yet persistently pay money for - sometimes they even pay more for extra bandwidth or specifically choose certain providers based on the strength of the network!
    Can you imagine that? Paying money to be on a strong network? Choosing a provider based on different attributes?
    Crazy notion altogether, never going to work, something something ponzyramid

    As it's reasoned debate that people claim to be interested in, let me put the other side of the argument.

    I have worked in tech my whole life. I understand the value of things that I can't touch, so let's please not pretend that is the issue here. I also know and am friends with several people who have been bitcoin advocates for years, and several who have made good (in some cases great) money out of it.

    However, I believe the long-term value of bitcoin is somewhere close to zero, albeit not actually zero or at least not for some time.

    I base that on the fact that bitcoin does not appear fit for purposes as a currency, and given that is the case, I do not understand what it is for. I want someone to explain to me why and when bitcoin will function as a currency or as SOMETHING that has a meaningful utility.

    As stated up thread, it is reasonably obvious why fiat money has value (and reasonably predictable value). Governments back it and effectively mandate its use in their territories. I won't go into the details beyond what I've already said, but this is well understood or it should be.

    But I don't understand what the argument 'for' bitcoin is.

    Arguments that for me don't stack up, or at least I don't feel do (open to persuasion):
    • "It's about blockchain" etc. So what? Does bitcoin or any coin have a monopoly on blockchain? Is there blockchain scarcity somehow? Also, given what is happening with transaction times etc I wonder if it is fit for purpose anyway.
    • "Fiat money is 'broken'". To some degree, yes. But this is a negative argument rather than a positive one for bitcoin, I can't see the path to recognition for bitcoin as an alternative to fiat (again, bitcoin, NOT the technology)
    • "Governments can print money and thus inflation is possible with fiat money". That's true, but hyper-inflation is empirically very rare and almost non-existent in functioning western economies. Certainly no major currency has deflated the way bitcoin has in the last month for decades.
    • "But people have made money". This is true and will be true again. It's true of every speculative bubble, but it proves nothing.

    There may be others I have missed. I am genuinely, genuinely interested to hear where the non-replicable utility of bitcoin (or any coin) lies. So if you actually want reasoned debate I am right here.


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    #569
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,888 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    grindle wrote:
    A very quick read of the first post should give an indication of what the thread was about - basically "Hey everybody, how do ye feel about general market sentiment?"


    In fairness you can't brush off the negative nellys as crackpots. Almost every government in the world agrees with them including all the top economists. Many experts have broken it down & have called it akin to a ponzi scheme.

    Title says is anyone else starting to become a bit worried. The title is encouraging people to come in and say of course you should be worried.

    I'm just saying posters have asked why the anti bitcoin posters in this thread & not others. The answer is the title.


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    #570
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,888 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    grindle wrote:
    A very quick read of the first post should give an indication of what the thread was about - basically "Hey everybody, how do ye feel about general market sentiment?"


    In fairness you can't brush off the negative nellys as crackpots. Almost every government in the world agrees with them including all the top economists. Many experts have broken it down & have called it akin to a ponzi scheme.

    Title says is anyone else starting to become a bit worried. The title is encouraging people to come in and say of course you should be worried.

    I'm just saying posters have asked why the anti bitcoin posters in this thread & not others. The answer is the title.


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    #571
    jasper100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 455 ✭✭jasper100


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    In fairness, the volatility of the currency at this time is precisely why various vendors have stopped accepting bitcoins as a mode of payment. How do you value a good or service in BTC on your website when the thing is going up or down 5% in a matter of minutes, unless you want to tie it to ‘current dollar value”, which seems a bit tricky to program? This does not seem unreasonable at this time. I’m sure they’ll go back to accepting, but not until things settle down.

    I will raise a hand and say that right now I am not investing, I am speculating. Gambling, even, but even gamblers play odds based on some research.

    That said, I really could do without these swings. I don’t want my portfolio up twenty percent, down ten, up ten, down five. I would be more satisfied with 0.5% every day... It would add up quickly enough.

    Its great to have somebody who holds bitcoin come on and agree with common sense logic that at this point in time playing with bitcoin is merely a gamble and shouldn't be used with anything other than money you are willing to lose.

    But when people come on here touting that its some form of breakout currency for people in the third world they need to be reigned in a bit.


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