Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

lifeandtimes

Anthracite wrote: »

I guess the key takeaway from this thread is that anybody 'investing' (lol) in cryptocurrency will get rich, but the main threat to them is people asking any questions or poking any holes in their beliefs, or indeed citing the history of speculative asset bubbles (we've never seen an example of one of those in Ireland). This threat is why any discussion or questions about their belief system must be immediately shouted down and the questioner abused and ridiculed - after all, we all know that people secure in their beliefs react like that to any sort of questioning.

Anyway, best of luck folks. I'm going to keep a small bit of skin in the game but I'm looking hard at the exit. Just remember the little people when ye are all stinking rich

No need for the condescending "lol"

The issue was people making jokes/bring condescending and repeating themselves over and over again quoting history and people with degrees in finances as if what they say will happen with absolute certainty and that cryptos were worthless and will fail.

We are by all means happy to debate as long as all views are taken on board and recognised why people are honestly investing. There were 1 or 2 posters where it was like banging your head against a wall which made the thread go in circles

Anyway good luck with your investment.

Debtocracy

I love how news articles can't keep up with the price of bitcoin.

Today "Bitcoin goes below €,6000, investors fleeing" when it's pumping 30%
Tomorrow "Bitcoin rebounds with renewed investor confidence" when it collapses back to €6,000.

My own prediction,which has a 0.073% chance of being correct, is that Bitcoin needs to find a good support level before it can go on a bull run. So if Bitcoin could collapse to 6,000, pump again, then collapse back etc. etc., this could provide a solid foundation for a bull run.

Whatever about the utility of cryptopcurrency, the big pump into risky coins today suggests that investors are far from finished gambling. Expect the Fudders and HODLERS to be claiming victories every over week on this thread.

JohnnyFlash

I'm longer in the tooth that most of the people around here I'd imagine. So I've seen a few bubbles in my time. I'm not trying to get one over on lads who have skin in this game, but I really do think ye are playing with fire, and most of ye haven't brought any fire extinguisher.

There's no reason that any traditional financial institiute would use any of these coins. Any of them. They might use blockchain if the costs of a transaction are less than what they offer at the moment. So would utilities I think, even though smart meters and the like are based on low cost and low transmission cost to send data back. Might change with tech -- who knows.

The crypto thing is a shower of people trying to make money buying these virtual coins in the hope that someone will buy em for more than they bought them for. There's nothing real backing it. Like I like the idea of that ripple company. Good idea and all that, but that coin they launched is worth nothing as no bank will ever use it. Why would they?? they raised loads of money with that coin though if they cashed out back to real money. And anyone who bought it has no stake in the company.

Wombatman

I'm out.

Invested €5k overall at various times between Nov and now.

Bought and sold ETH, LTC, VEN, WTC, FUN, LEND, XRP, XRB, ADA, ZEC, POWR, XLM, AMB, REQ over that period. Some profitable, some not.

I traded on GDax, Binance, Bit-Grail, Kucoin, and Bit-z.

All tolled I came out with €470 profit which I'm leaving on GDax for now in fiat.

The first two months were fun, the second two not so much. Great learning experience.

Good luck to all. Don't risk what you can't afford to loose. Post some pics of those Lambos when ye buy them.

Anthracite

S.M.B. wrote: »

Has anyone come across any decent resources where this debate is captured but without the pettiness?

It might be worth asking the mod to set up a thread for reasoned debate with rules around conduct. I agree that at present it's not possible to have a serious exchange of thoughts, hence I'm bowing out.

ballyharpat

From standing on the outside of this thread, what I see is people claiming that they are buying bitcoins as a coin for the future, but yet they are calling it an investment, but when they are called out on saying it's not an investment, they accuse people of being condescending.

People are buying with the hope that other people will buy more and pay more than they did, encouraging to hold, in the hope that it will keep their investment high.

I hate to break it to ye, but even if everyone on this whole forum held, it still would not have any decent impact on the price of crypto. Have ye even looked at the size of crypto trades every day? It reminds me of a guy on here saying that people that were suggesting apple as a good buy, were shills and trying to get the price high. Again, it would take a lot more than what's on these forums to have any impact on a decent stock-maybe Providence....... but that's about it with a few more penny stocks.

Anyone that starts to get worried, or points out the reality of coins, is eaten alive.

To answer the question in the title, I am not worried, the fall was pretty gradual and did not have much effect-if any-on the stock market- there is currently about 350-400 billion in cryptos, and even if it went to zero in the space of a week, it wouldnt effect the economy. And if it does go to zero, so what, blockchain will still be the same, it can still be utilised for many different purposes.

JohnnyFlash

ballyharpat wrote: »

From standing on the outside of this thread, what I see is people claiming that they are buying bitcoins as a coin for the future, but yet they are calling it an investment, but when they are called out on saying it's not an investment, they accuse people of being condescending.

People are buying with the hope that other people will buy more and pay more than they did, encouraging to hold, in the hope that it will keep their investment high.

I hate to break it to ye, but even if everyone on this whole forum held, it still would not have any decent impact on the price of crypto. Have ye even looked at the size of crypto trades every day? It reminds me of a guy on here saying that people that were suggesting apple as a good buy, were shills and trying to get the price high. Again, it would take a lot more than what's on these forums to have any impact on a decent stock-maybe Providence....... but that's about it with a few more penny stocks.

Anyone that starts to get worried, or points out the reality of coins, is eaten alive.

To answer the question in the title, I am not worried, the fall was pretty gradual and did not have much effect-if any-on the stock market- there is currently about 350-400 billion in cryptos, and even if it went to zero in the space of a week, it wouldnt effect the economy. And if it does go to zero, so what, blockchain will still be the same, it can still be utilised for many different purposes.

Great post horse and you put it across much better than I could. I don't want to see any lad lose most of his money of this thing. And if they are sticking in a few quid like they would at the bookies then best of luck. Just thing they should be aware that the odds are stacked against them. At the end of the day , even if the entire thing was to collapse it would make no difference to the global money market. Cool to watch from the outside though.

WhiteMemento9

Wombatman wrote: »

I'm out.

Invested €5k overall at various times between Nov and now.

Bought and sold ETH, LTC, VEN, WTC, FUN, LEND, XRP, XRB, ADA, ZEC, POWR, XLM, AMB, REQ over that period. Some profitable, some not.

I traded on GDax, Binance, Bit-Grail, Kucoin, and Bit-z.

All tolled I came out with €470 profit which I'm leaving on GDax for now in fiat.

The first two months were fun, the second two not so much. Great learning experience.

Good luck to all. Don't risk what you can't afford to loose. Post some pics of those Lambos when ye buy them.

People that think it is easy money should stick in a proper amount of money of their own and see how ****ing easy it really is. The obsession and stress of it all at times are massive. No different to trading any volatile market this is no get rich quick pyramid scheme.

Manic Moran

lifeandtimes wrote: »

https://twitter.com/TraceMayer/status/960567625276379137

This guy is usually on top of his game about stuff like this

The hell? Is he seriously suggesting that 1BTC could be worth over $100k by the end of the year? Not that I’m in any way cynical, but I find that sort of prediction to be so unrealistic that it negates any credibility he may have on past history.

asteroids over berlin

Wombatman wrote: »

I'm out.

Invested €5k overall at various times between Nov and now.

Bought and sold ETH, LTC, VEN, WTC, FUN, LEND, XRP, XRB, ADA, ZEC, POWR, XLM, AMB, REQ over that period. Some profitable, some not.

I traded on GDax, Binance, Bit-Grail, Kucoin, and Bit-z.

All tolled I came out with €470 profit which I'm leaving on GDax for now in fiat.

The first two months were fun, the second two not so much. Great learning experience.

Good luck to all. Don't risk what you can't afford to loose. Post some pics of those Lambos when ye buy them.

even with the big dip, i am somewhat baffled how you only made a profit of 400 odd euro with an investment of 5k, you must of been very unlucky or constantly buying and selling and not paying much attention to dips, December in particular was a gold mine. anyway, best of luck

JohnnyFlash

Manic Moran wrote: »

The hell? Is he seriously suggesting that 1BTC could be worth over $100k by the end of the year? Not that I’m in any way cynical, but I find that sort of prediction to be so unrealistic that it negates any credibility he may have on past history.

Fire his figures into excel and it will pick up what he is tryin' to imply. Worth 21 billion or something by 2021. That lad Mcafee only predicted 1 million by 2020. He is going to eat his mickey if it isnt at that price by then. Done some reading about him, how did he become someone who people thoguht had an insight on this stuff???

Wombatman

Wombatman wrote: »

I'm out.

Invested €5k overall at various times between Nov and now.

Bought and sold ETH, LTC, VEN, WTC, FUN, LEND, XRP, XRB, ADA, ZEC, POWR, XLM, AMB, REQ over that period. Some profitable, some not.

I traded on GDax, Binance, Bit-Grail, Kucoin, and Bit-z.

All tolled I came out with €470 profit which I'm leaving on GDax for now in fiat.

The first two months were fun, the second two not so much. Great learning experience.

Good luck to all. Don't risk what you can't afford to loose. Post some pics of those Lambos when ye buy them.

All the best Wombatman.

Bob_Marley

Long term there is nothing to make bitcoin an indispensable intrinsic currency. People are not buying it to use/need, they are just buying it to gamble on. Its biggest contribution was to blockchain technology, and that's now available to any and all successors and variations. Bitcoin is just the Ford Model T of future financial transactions, if even, and not the be all and end all.

There was / is money to be made in Bitcoin, even if like some Celtic Tiger property pyramid scheme, it ultimately might not succeed.
Like all things in life, those who buy and sell at the right times will make money regardless, like the Celtic tiger, you didn't have to believe the bull to make money (or loose it).

sabat

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Fire his figures into excel and it will pick up what he is tryin' to imply. Worth 21 billion or something by 2021. That lad Mcafee only predicted 1 million by 2020. He is going to eat his mickey if it isnt at that price by then. Done some reading about him, how did he become someone who people thoguht had an insight on this stuff???

If bitcoin went to 1m its market cap would be 21 trillion (including unmined coins.) Just for some context- the total amount of USD in cash is 1.6 trillion; including bank accounts and other savings/funds it's circulation is about 14 trillion. Alarmingly, a google search of the phrase 'bitcoin 1 million' brings up any number of "experts" saying basically 'who knows?' 'maybe this could happen.'
Could the crypto-enthusiasts here at least concede that talk of that kind of valuation is deluded horsesh1t?

S.M.B.

ballyharpat wrote: »

From standing on the outside of this thread, what I see is people claiming that they are buying bitcoins as a coin for the future, but yet they are calling it an investment, but when they are called out on saying it's not an investment, they accuse people of being condescending.

People are buying with the hope that other people will buy more and pay more than they did, encouraging to hold, in the hope that it will keep their investment high.

I hate to break it to ye, but even if everyone on this whole forum held, it still would not have any decent impact on the price of crypto. Have ye even looked at the size of crypto trades every day? It reminds me of a guy on here saying that people that were suggesting apple as a good buy, were shills and trying to get the price high. Again, it would take a lot more than what's on these forums to have any impact on a decent stock-maybe Providence....... but that's about it with a few more penny stocks.

Anyone that starts to get worried, or points out the reality of coins, is eaten alive.

To answer the question in the title, I am not worried, the fall was pretty gradual and did not have much effect-if any-on the stock market- there is currently about 350-400 billion in cryptos, and even if it went to zero in the space of a week, it wouldnt effect the economy. And if it does go to zero, so what, blockchain will still be the same, it can still be utilised for many different purposes.

Great post.

However, I don't think anyone on this forum genuinely believes that convincing others to HODL would have any actual impact on the market price.

lifeandtimes

asteroids over berlin wrote: »

even with the big dip, i am somewhat baffled how you only made a profit of 400 odd euro with an investment of 5k, you must of been very unlucky or constantly buying and selling and not paying much attention to dips, December in particular was a gold mine. anyway, best of luck

I find it strange as well, an investment of 5k should have at least doubled if you kept your money in them coins.

A problem with a lot of the people here or in the market is they jumped into this with a fair sized investments but this new money expected to get rich quick, especially by investing in the top 20 coins on CMC.

The real money to be made is in long term coins that start off on 0.00005 etc.

I bought 25 million of one that's in the couples of 100s (was higher at the time) at a similar price over the course of 512months and that coins is now worth just over $0.01 which has netted me a little under 25k.

Any way good luck all

Tinder Surprise

lifeandtimes wrote: »

I bought 25 million of one that's in the couples of 100s (was higher at the time) at a similar price over the course of 512months and that coins is now worth just over $0.01 which has netted me a little under 25k.

You bought into an ICO/coin just over 42yrs ago?..now that's what I call getting in early :P

What was the name of the coin 'Shilling'

smacl

Wombatman wrote: »

I'm out.

Invested €5k overall at various times between Nov and now.

Bought and sold ETH, LTC, VEN, WTC, FUN, LEND, XRP, XRB, ADA, ZEC, POWR, XLM, AMB, REQ over that period. Some profitable, some not.

I traded on GDax, Binance, Bit-Grail, Kucoin, and Bit-z.

All tolled I came out with €470 profit which I'm leaving on GDax for now in fiat.

The first two months were fun, the second two not so much. Great learning experience.

Good luck to all. Don't risk what you can't afford to loose. Post some pics of those Lambos when ye buy them.

Best of luck with it, and ~10% net profit over three months isn't a bad return over that period. Nor for that matter is remaining in the game on a far smaller scale with the entirety of your initial investment returned.

smacl

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I'm longer in the tooth that most of the people around here I'd imagine. So I've seen a few bubbles in my time. I'm not trying to get one over on lads who have skin in this game, but I really do think ye are playing with fire, and most of ye haven't brought any fire extinguisher.

So pray tell what is the average age of posters here exactly? FWIW, I set up my first business 28 years ago which has remained profitable year on year, sold a second business which I co-owned, and have traded through a number of major recessions and technology shifts. One thing I can say with confidence is that if you see a potentially major paradigm shift in how the world around you operates, ignoring it is neither safe nor clever. All of the existing coins could well go pop, but I'd predict that those investing time and money to understand this emerging change will do well by it, whereas those steadfastly determined to downplay it and stick to whatever traditional products are doled out to them by the banks and financial institutions may well find themselves struggling and failing to keep up in a few years time.

Personally, I'm taking a very financially conservative approach to crypto putting in just a couple of k, but engaging with it enthusiastically. I have no expectation of making significant gains on my initial investment, as likely losses, but still consider it a prudent, worthwhile and valuable investment. Loving the look of IOTA long term regardless of whether my current investment in it comes up trumps, enjoying playing around with mining at the smallest level, and getting to grips with trading.

GreeBo

smacl wrote: »

One thing I can say with confidence is that if you see a potentially major paradigm shift in how the world around you operates, ignoring it is neither safe nor clever.

Not buying crypto coins/tokens is not the same as ignoring the technology behind them.

You don't have to purchase anything to get involved and benefit from blockchain and similar technologies.

jasper100

smacl wrote: »

whereas those steadfastly determined to downplay it and stick to whatever traditional products are doled out to them by the banks and financial institutions may well find themselves struggling and failing to keep up in a few years time.

20 years ago "traditional products" from banks were cheques, cash and travellers cheques.

Now if you go into must pubs and shops its card all the way, tap and go, applepay with your watch etc.

Some places still don't accept any of this but will have to switch soon as its becoming more and more cashless. Even if they haven't switched over yet I wouldn't consider them to be struggling.

Point is its only when some new payment system becomes mainstream that existing businesses need to start changing their mindset.

If bitcoin ever becomes mainstream and say 3 shops in the village are taking it then the fourth shop will have to start taking it.

crytoadvice

Goldman Sachs reckon most crypto will fail
https://www.independent.ie/business/technology/cyrptocurrencies-unlikely-to-survive-goldman-sachs-36581170.html

smacl

GreeBo wrote: »

Not buying crypto coins/tokens is not the same as ignoring the technology behind them.

You don't have to purchase anything to get involved and benefit from blockchain and similar technologies.

True, but the process of doing so even to a very small extent is an immersive experience, whereas doing it as an academic exercise is not. By investing even a small amount amount of money, and being forced through the hoops of exchanges, and figuring out what you should buy and why, you in turn become invested and learn things you'd most likely skip in a paper exercise. Same goes for mining, even when done at the smallest possible level. You don't learn to swim or ride a bike by reading about it, same goes for most things in my experience. YMMV.

Blacktie.

crytoadvice wrote: »

Goldman Sachs reckon most crypto will fail
https://www.independent.ie/business/technology/cyrptocurrencies-unlikely-to-survive-goldman-sachs-36581170.html

Well he's right there. There's a lot of dud projects out there.

smacl

jasper100 wrote: »

If bitcoin ever becomes mainstream and say 3 shops in the village are taking it then the fourth shop will have to start taking it.

Hmmm, and if the residents of said village stop going to the local shop and now buy online? Those in retail that have chosen to ignore major shifts in purchasing behaviour have already been hammered. Apologies, but the above post makes me think said village is Royston Vasey. Local shops for local people.

jasper100

smacl wrote: »

True, but the process of doing so even to a very small extent is an immersive experience, whereas doing it as an academic exercise is not. By investing even a small amount amount of money, and being forced through the hoops of exchanges, and figuring out what you should buy and why, you in turn become invested and learn things you'd most likely skip in a paper exercise. Same goes for mining, even when done at the smallest possible level. You don't learn to swim or ride a bike by reading about it, same goes for most things in my experience. YMMV.

Are you seriously suggesting that mainstream businesses like Doctors, shop keepers, dentists, farmers, publicans, mechanics, etc. etc. need to go investing in coins to learn the technologies behind them as not doing so will probably cause them to struggle and fail in a few years?

ED E

Bob_Marley wrote: »

Long term there is nothing to make bitcoin an indispensable intrinsic currency. People are not buying it to use/need, they are just buying it to gamble on.

There are those that put that all down to spam TXs. Right now the currency isnt usable as such due to insane tx fees. If the cause of this is indeed spurious we could see an eventual correction.

Kenny Logins

ED E wrote: »

There are those that put that all down to spam TXs. Right now the currency isnt usable as such due to insane tx fees. If the cause of this is indeed spurious we could see an eventual correction.

I don't think this is true at the moment.

I accidentally transferred 0.12 BTC the other day at 5sat/b and it went through in under an hour. No problem at all at a cost of $0.29

makeorbrake

ED E wrote: »

There are those that put that all down to spam TXs. Right now the currency isnt usable as such due to insane tx fees. If the cause of this is indeed spurious we could see an eventual correction.

Lightning Network - IF it can be implemented successfully - will deal with transaction times and costs. Additionally, segwit adoption is only at 15%. Full segwit adoption will help also.

GreeBo

smacl wrote: »

True, but the process of doing so even to a very small extent is an immersive experience, whereas doing it as an academic exercise is not. By investing even a small amount amount of money, and being forced through the hoops of exchanges, and figuring out what you should buy and why, you in turn become invested and learn things you'd most likely skip in a paper exercise. Same goes for mining, even when done at the smallest possible level. You don't learn to swim or ride a bike by reading about it, same goes for most things in my experience. YMMV.

I think you missed my point as you are still talking specifically about crypto.

I can get involved and be actively using blockchain technology without ever getting involved in crypto currencies.

Crypto is an offshoot of blockchain, it's not blockchain or distributed ledgers, it uses them.

You can be heavily invested in blockchain and yet have zero cares about the value of crypto.