Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

awec · 18-01-2018 02:56PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In the very, very short term. Medium to long term you would want to have guys exposed to that level and a strong enough panel of players that a good number are being called up for International honours.

Yea short term. Main goal for Ulster is some consistency til the end of the season and that is best served with losing as few players as possible.

bilston · 18-01-2018 03:47PM

Once Best retires it's not beyond the realms of possibility that we will only be contriburing two players to the Ireland squad in Henderson and Stockdale for a while.

prawnsambo · 18-01-2018 04:11PM

bilston wrote: »

Once Best retires it's not beyond the realms of possibility that we will only be contriburing two players to the Ireland squad in Henderson and Stockdale for a while.

Rob Herring? Also I think John Cooney could well be in with a shout for the summer and Rob Lyttle has seomthing aboiut him too.

madlad88 · 18-01-2018 04:40PM

bilston wrote: »

Once Best retires it's not beyond the realms of possibility that we will only be contriburing two players to the Ireland squad in Henderson and Stockdale for a while.

prawnsambo wrote: »

Rob Herring? Also I think John Cooney could well be in with a shout for the summer and Rob Lyttle has seomthing aboiut him too.

Would love to get your opinions on the 2nd row situation with the irish squad.
I know AOC wouldn't be quite be up to international standard but he has out performed both Roux and Treadwell this season. Been very impressive taking control of the lineouts while Best and Hendo have been absent.

Surely would be worth a call up in the near future for the training squad.

bilston · 18-01-2018 04:42PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

Once Best retires it's not beyond the realms of possibility that we will only be contriburing two players to the Ireland squad in Henderson and Stockdale for a while.

Rob Herring? Also I think John Cooney could well be in with a shout for the summer and Rob Lyttle has seomthing aboiut him too.

There are guys like Lyttle and maybe even McBurney who could make their way into the squad after the WC, but they have to prove themselves for Ulster first.

Maybe I'm being harsh but I don't see Herring as a long term Irish squad member.

prawnsambo · 18-01-2018 05:08PM

madlad88 wrote: »

Would love to get your opinions on the 2nd row situation with the irish squad.
I know AOC wouldn't be quite be up to international standard but he has out performed both Roux and Treadwell this season. Been very impressive taking control of the lineouts while Best and Hendo have been absent.

Surely would be worth a call up in the near future for the training squad.

It's an area where I believe Ireland need more depth. It's been said here that Roux is a great scrummager and I'd probably bow to those who know better than me. But yeah, O'Connor is young enough to progress if he keeps it up.

prawnsambo · 18-01-2018 05:10PM

bilston wrote: »

There are guys like Lyttle and maybe even McBurney who could make their way into the squad after the WC, but they have to prove themselves for Ulster first.

Maybe I'm being harsh but I don't see Herring as a long term Irish squad member.

Herring has impressed me lately. Not a lot wrong with his game tbh. He's a big lad too. He's in the right age bracket to get himself in the frame. But he's got serious competition from Niall Scannell and James Tracy.

Buer · 19-01-2018 09:04AM

AOC is a solid enough performer but any call up ambitions he had were possibly torpedoed by his effort on Deegan in the build up to Sexton's try in the RDS. It was the sort of effort that a coach would look at and think he lacks the bite and determination for the top level.

$ausage$ · 19-01-2018 10:29AM

bilston wrote: »

prawnsambo wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

Once Best retires it's not beyond the realms of possibility that we will only be contriburing two players to the Ireland squad in Henderson and Stockdale for a while.

Rob Herring? Also I think John Cooney could well be in with a shout for the summer and Rob Lyttle has seomthing aboiut him too.

There are guys like Lyttle and maybe even McBurney who could make their way into the squad after the WC, but they have to prove themselves for Ulster first.

Maybe I'm being harsh but I don't see Herring as a long term Irish squad member.

I dont see Lyttle making it that far. I would see more chance of Timoney than him.
Also dont forget we will have Murphy and Moore they could sneak back in to make it 4 guys

irishfan9 · 19-01-2018 10:33AM

Timoney won't make international level.

awec · 19-01-2018 10:45AM

Ultimately players who are good but not quite test level are the foundation of any team and the more of those we have the better.

Look at the likes of Cullen, McLaughlin, Jennings etc at Leinster, all just on the periphery of test matches but still top players and vital to Leinsters glory years.

madlad88 · 19-01-2018 11:42AM

Buer wrote: »

AOC is a solid enough performer but any call up ambitions he had were possibly torpedoed by his effort on Deegan in the build up to Sexton's try in the RDS. It was the sort of effort that a coach would look at and think he lacks the bite and determination for the top level.

I wouldn't read too much into that at all, he was barely on the pitch 10 minutes and the match was well over by then.

The whole ulster team had given up after half time. Schmidt wouldn't have been impressed by an player in white that day.

$ausage$ · 19-01-2018 12:03PM

irishfan9 wrote: »

Timoney won't make international level.

My point was he has more chance than Lyttle

Clegg · 19-01-2018 12:09PM

Every time Henderson plays at blindside baby jesus cries.

GeordieC · 19-01-2018 01:16PM

Teams for Sunday at 15:15 GMT

[font=ReithSans, Arial, Helvetica, freesans, sans-serif][font=ReithSans, Arial, Helvetica, freesans, sans-serif]Wasps:[/font] Le Roux; Wade, De Jongh, Eastmond, Watson; Cipriani, Robson; McIntyre, Cruse, Cooper-Woolley; Launchbury (capt), Gaskell; Willis, Thompson, Carr.[/font]
[font=ReithSans, Arial, Helvetica, freesans, sans-serif][font=ReithSans, Arial, Helvetica, freesans, sans-serif]Replacements:[/font] Johnson, Harris, Moore, Myall, Young, Simpson, Miller, Macken.[/font]
[font=ReithSans, Arial, Helvetica, freesans, sans-serif][font=ReithSans, Arial, Helvetica, freesans, sans-serif]
Ulster: [/font]Piutau; Ludik, Cave, McCloskey, Stockdale; Lealiifano, Cooney; McCall, Best (capt), Ah You; O'Connor, Treadwell; Henderson, Reidy, Timoney.[/font]
[font=ReithSans, Arial, Helvetica, freesans, sans-serif][font=ReithSans, Arial, Helvetica, freesans, sans-serif]Replacements: [/font]Herring, Warwick, Herbst, Rea, Henry, Shanahan, McPhillips, Lyttle.[/font]

bilston · 19-01-2018 01:38PM

Harsh on Mattie Rea...very harsh...

I assume Black is injured otherwise it's another WTF selection.

The rest is as expected.

Some decent bench options in Herring, Herbst, Rea and Henry.

awec · 19-01-2018 01:41PM

Is that Wasps first choice side?

19-01-2018 01:41PM

awec wrote: »

Is that Wasps first choice side?

I don't think Wasps have enough players for a first or second choice side.

prawnsambo · 19-01-2018 01:47PM

bilston wrote: »

Harsh on Mattie Rea...very harsh...

I assume Black is injured otherwise it's another WTF selection.

The rest is as expected.

Some decent bench options in Herring, Herbst, Rea and Henry.

Is that not the best back row you have? Reidy's been excellent, as has Timoney. Henderson obvs. > all the rest.

bilston · 19-01-2018 05:40PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

Harsh on Mattie Rea...very harsh...

I assume Black is injured otherwise it's another WTF selection.

The rest is as expected.

Some decent bench options in Herring, Herbst, Rea and Henry.

Is that not the best back row you have? Reidy's been excellent, as has Timoney. Henderson obvs. > all the rest.

I just prefer Henderson in the row, but I'm not upset to see him at 6 either (at least not for Ulster).

I was just thinking to myself earlier that next season if you add Moore, Nordi Murphy and (touch a rainforest of wood) Coetzee to that pack you suddenly have a decent set of forwards.

Shame we will struggle to put out a backline next season!

bilston · 19-01-2018 05:44PM

Potential Ulster pack next season

Black
Best
Moore
Henderson
O'Connor
Reidy
Murphy
Coetzee

Bench
Herring
McCall
Herbst
Treadwell
Timoney

Others
Rea
Deysel
Diack
Jones

Young guns to watch McBurney, O'Toole, Dalton, Hall.

It's starting to look a bit healthier

bilston · 19-01-2018 05:46PM

Potential Ulster backline

Cooney
Feck knows
Stockdale
McCloskey
Marshall
Gilroy
Payne

I'm being optimistic with Payne's invision

Bench
Stewart
McPhillips
Cave

Others
Lyttle, Trimble, Ludik

It's a far cry from a year or two ago.

prawnsambo · 19-01-2018 05:51PM

bilston wrote: »

Potential Ulster backline

Cooney
Feck knows
Stockdale
McCloskey
Marshall
Gilroy
Payne

I'm being optimistic with Payne's invision

Bench
Stewart
McPhillips
Cave

Others
Lyttle, Trimble, Ludik

It's a far cry from a year or two ago.

Is that a positive or a negative?

irishfan9 · 19-01-2018 06:03PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Is that a positive or a negative?

negative

bilston · 19-01-2018 06:45PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

Potential Ulster backline

Cooney
Feck knows
Stockdale
McCloskey
Marshall
Gilroy
Payne

I'm being optimistic with Payne's invision

Bench
Stewart
McPhillips
Cave

Others
Lyttle, Trimble, Ludik

It's a far cry from a year or two ago.

Is that a positive or a negative?

Definite negative

Think Pienaar, Jackson, Olding, Payne, Bowe, Trimble, Piutau

That's a whole backline gone, or almost/potentially gone.

19-01-2018 07:56PM

Cooney has been better in the 2017-2018 season than Pienaar was in 2016-2017..

He is an upgrade right now.

mfceiling · 19-01-2018 08:44PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Cooney has been better in the 2017-2018 season than Pienaar was in 2016-2017..

He is an upgrade right now.

Cooney has been magnificent. His kicking in behind La Rochelle was similar to the way Pienaar used to peg teams back.
Liked his push on the 2nd row as well.
Basically you want your scrum half to be a narky little bollix and right now he's ticking all the right boxes.

bilston · 19-01-2018 08:57PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Cooney has been better in the 2017-2018 season than Pienaar was in 2016-2017..

He is an upgrade right now.

Maybe, but that's not the point I was making. We've lost or could lose a lot of backline talent.

But yes Cooney has been excellent for us. He is a bit of a different beat to Pienaar so it's hard to compare. Pienaar was a better box kicking and passer, Cooney is more of an attacking threat and better defensively. Pienaar also had the advantage of having been part of a long standing half partnership with Jackson. Cooney hasn't been afforded that luxury to date. Pienaar also spent much of his Ulster career behind a vastly superior pack to what Cooney has had to deal with this season. But hopefully that will change a bit next season.

MDunne14 · 19-01-2018 09:41PM

bilston wrote: »

Maybe, but that's not the point I was making. We've lost or could lose a lot of backline talent.

But yes Cooney has been excellent for us. He is a bit of a different beat to Pienaar so it's hard to compare. Pienaar was a better box kicking and passer, Cooney is more of an attacking threat and better defensively. Pienaar also had the advantage of having been part of a long standing half partnership with Jackson. Cooney hasn't been afforded that luxury to date. Pienaar also spent much of his Ulster career behind a vastly superior pack to what Cooney has had to deal with this season. But hopefully that will change a bit next season.

Cooney has not and never will reach pienaars level and what he brought to ulster. If ulster bring in a 10 that takes place kicks does cooney excel in any other parts of his game as pienaar did ? Not really imo and that’s why he’s been left out of the Irish squad , the goal kicking is great don’t get me wrong and badly needed bUt he doesn’t do much more apart from it unlike pienaar who had great vision often had outrageous cross field kicks along with a better running game and passing

awec · 19-01-2018 11:14PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Cooney has been better in the 2017-2018 season than Pienaar was in 2016-2017..

He is an upgrade right now.

Er, no.

Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

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