Frustrated with Turas Nua

tringle · 11-12-2017 01:04PM

splinter65 wrote: »

Turas Nua report back to SW regarding wether or not you were co operative in the effort to find “full time” employment, and SW act on that information.
If you get called into work the day of a meeting with TN I would notify them and get proof from the employer that you were there.
But you will have to attend TN if you want to keep your claim open.
Personally I would prefer to close my claim while your getting nearly full time hours and open it again if it slows down.

Your signed Xs and Os sheet from your employer as issued to you from social welfare IS written proof that you were working that day. My social welfare office have always advised me to keep my claim open when doing casual work, I might have one day a week or 5 days a week. You only receive a payment if you work 3 days or less but continue to sign on. Once I received a call from SW to confirm what work I was doing, a 30 second call from them. If you really think you will run into problems with TN I would in the first instance talk to the SW office rather than TN who as many have seen is run by people from a sales and retail background just interested in numbers and commission rather than a background in social protection or an interest in individuals. Also, anyone I know that has called TN to reschedule an appointment has never had an issue.

blowin3 · 11-12-2017 09:55PM

tringle wrote: »

Your signed Xs and Os sheet from your employer as issued to you from social welfare IS written proof that you were working that day. My social welfare office have always advised me to keep my claim open when doing casual work, I might have one day a week or 5 days a week. You only receive a payment if you work 3 days or less but continue to sign on. Once I received a call from SW to confirm what work I was doing, a 30 second call from them. If you really think you will run into problems with TN I would in the first instance talk to the SW office rather than TN who as many have seen is run by people from a sales and retail background just interested in numbers and commission rather than a background in social protection or an interest in individuals. Also, anyone I know that has called TN to reschedule an appointment has never had an issue.

I called into TN to try get out of next weeks meeting. I was told if I dont turn up SW will cancel my claim. She did state she could not understand why I was referred to TN as I showed her all the hours I was working.
I am on a zero hour contract hence the reason keeping my claim open as I have work this week but who knows about next week. I dont earn a whole lot more working and taking into account fuel allowance and the other fringe benefits I am properly worse off working. But I would rather be the master of my own future and not dictated to as I witnessed today happening to others in the TN office. I also said I would not be signing a contract with out my solicitor looking at it. Pain in the ass.

tringle · 12-12-2017 11:14AM

blowin3 wrote: »

I called into TN to try get out of next weeks meeting. I was told if I dont turn up SW will cancel my claim. She did state she could not understand why I was referred to TN as I showed her all the hours I was working.
I am on a zero hour contract hence the reason keeping my claim open as I have work this week but who knows about next week. I dont earn a whole lot more working and taking into account fuel allowance and the other fringe benefits I am properly worse off working. But I would rather be the master of my own future and not dictated to as I witnessed today happening to others in the TN office. I also said I would not be signing a contract with out my solicitor looking at it. Pain in the ass.

That's terrible... Is there no way they can reschedule. I know my daughter rescheduled a few appointments with them. I mean you are not refusing to go but just asking for another day. Is your local SW office decent in any way, they know your are working that day and declaring it, they may have some leeway.
Feeling very frustrated for you, its an ironic situation... Having to give up work to look for work.

blowin3 · 12-12-2017 01:09PM

tringle wrote: »

That's terrible... Is there no way they can reschedule. I know my daughter rescheduled a few appointments with them. I mean you are not refusing to go but just asking for another day. Is your local SW office decent in any way, they know your are working that day and declaring it, they may have some leeway.
Feeling very frustrated for you, its an ironic situation... Having to give up work to look for work.

Thanks for the advice very kind of you. No she told me I had to turn up or sign off. I droped in my X and O docket a day late due to pressure of working 6 days and I think this is my punishment. I might go to my local TD and plead my case.

Twelve Bar Blues · 12-12-2017 02:39PM

blowin3 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice very kind of you. No she told me I had to turn up or sign off. I droped in my X and O docket a day late due to pressure of working 6 days and I think this is my punishment. I might go to my local TD and plead my case.

Only once I had to r/s an appt as I had chest infection. No issues, brought a doc cert the next meeting and that was it.
From speaking to other people about their experiences, it seems to depend on your 'personal advisor'. My lady is decent enough but I think if you have one that isn't they can make life a little difficult. Keep records of everything - if you change an apt over the phone I would then email your PA a confirmation, for eg.
As someone else said, have proof on paper that you cannot attend as you're working.
Ring and give as much notice as possible. I can't see why it is a problem to r/s an appt (which it says you can do on the letter they give you detailing said appt) because you're working!!

blowin3 · 13-12-2017 08:15AM

Twelve Bar Blues wrote: »

Only once I had to r/s an appt as I had chest infection. No issues, brought a doc cert the next meeting and that was it.
From speaking to other people about their experiences, it seems to depend on your 'personal advisor'. My lady is decent enough but I think if you have one that isn't they can make life a little difficult. Keep records of everything - if you change an apt over the phone I would then email your PA a confirmation, for eg.
As someone else said, have proof on paper that you cannot attend as you're working.
Ring and give as much notice as possible. I can't see why it is a problem to r/s an appt (which it says you can do on the letter they give you detailing said appt) because you're working!!

Thanks for the reply and support. I think the lady I was talking to mention I had no PA and needed to have one attached to my file. Last week I worked 50 houres and this week will be 40 but after Christmas it might fall back to 3 days. But I still will not get anything from SW as my means test is set to 94e per day worked. So I think it's a punishment for dropping in my X and O docket a day late to SW as I got a phone call the following day. ðŸ˜³

Stonedpilot · 17-01-2018 02:07PM

People just google Unitedpeople Turas Nua.

Extensive 106 page report on them all researched.

Turas Nua is the British Seetec. Paid a fortune by the state to force people into minimum wage jobs so RTE can tell people employment is at itso
Lowest since blah blah blah. All PR spin.

Stonedpilot · 17-01-2018 03:24PM

Here it is

http://www.unitedpeople.ie/download/jobpath-a-unitedpeople-report/

tringle · 18-01-2018 09:00AM

blowin3 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply and support. I think the lady I was talking to mention I had no PA and needed to have one attached to my file. Last week I worked 50 houres and this week will be 40 but after Christmas it might fall back to 3 days. But I still will not get anything from SW as my means test is set to 94e per day worked. So I think it's a punishment for dropping in my X and O docket a day late to SW as I got a phone call the following day. ðŸ˜³

What happened?

Twelve Bar Blues · 18-01-2018 10:06AM

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Here it is

http://www.unitedpeople.ie/download/jobpath-a-unitedpeople-report/

Ugh it's painful.
Failed miserably in the UK, and then Irish Gov decides to try it out....

Stonedpilot · 18-01-2018 07:21PM

brendanwalsh wrote: »

I found this job myself. TN hassled me non stop for months. I refuse to give them a commission for me getting myself a job. they are a snake organisation.

True where you work is none of their business whatsoever. Why should you working benefit a non related British company????

Let them know in plain English All further correspondence will be considered harassment. Get the name of the person who rings you, a date a time, what office are they calling from?. and make them very aware of this.

You have several ways of reporting it as harassment and I'd strongly suggest you do this.

brendanwalsh · 21-01-2018 08:32PM

Which is the best avenue to report harassmen

Garda Seochana or somewhere else?

splinter65 · 21-01-2018 08:47PM

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Which is the best avenue to report harassmen

Garda Seochana or somewhere else?

You need to write to the management of the Turas Nua office to complain and escalate the complaint all the way up to the Ombudsman .

Twelve Bar Blues · 22-01-2018 01:07PM

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Which is the best avenue to report harassmen

Garda Seochana or somewhere else?

If you do go ahead with a complaint, would you mind letting us know how it goes?

blowin3 · 22-01-2018 09:08PM

tringle wrote: »

What happened?

I had my meeting with what seemed a nice young lady. I asked why I was there she said because I was on dockets even so I have got no payment from SW for the last 6 months. She said I will be expect to go to a follow up meeting at the end of the month unless I am working that day. She agreed that I am on average working 30 plus hours a week but on a zero hour contract hence on dockets. We will see.

Stonedpilot · 26-01-2018 02:21PM

blowin3 wrote: »

I had my meeting with what seemed a nice young lady. I asked why I was there she said because I was on dockets even so I have got no payment from SW for the last 6 months. She said I will be expect to go to a follow up meeting at the end of the month unless I am working that day. She agreed that I am on average working 30 plus hours a week but on a zero hour contract hence on dockets. We will see.

Did you sign their contract?. Must have done if they have their claws in lad

splinter65 · 26-01-2018 02:57PM

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Did you sign their contract?. Must have done if they have their claws in lad

What do you think will happen if he doesn’t sign the contract Stoned ?

jmcgill16 · 26-01-2018 04:09PM

splinter65 wrote: »

What do you think will happen if he doesn’t sign the contract Stoned ?

The current best advice is to simply refuse to sign their contract at the meetings.

I've heard multiple reports of people doing that and them just being dropped from Seetac/Turas Nua with no penalty. By attending any meetings, but just not signing over any rights to Seetac, its not refusing to engage so your JSA can't be penalized. But at the same time Seetac can't deal with you.

The department even circulated an internal memo (which has since leaked) advising its staff not to dock anyones payments who does the above, so its fairly legitimate.

splinter65 · 26-01-2018 06:15PM

jmcgill16 wrote: »

The current best advice is to simply refuse to sign their contract at the meetings.

I've heard multiple reports of people doing that and them just being dropped from Seetac/Turas Nua with no penalty. By attending any meetings, but just not signing over any rights to Seetac, its not refusing to engage so your JSA can't be penalized. But at the same time Seetac can't deal with you.

The department even circulated an internal memo (which has since leaked) advising its staff not to dock anyones payments who does the above, so its fairly legitimate.

Best advice from who though? Can you give us a link to this advice ? Can you give us a link to the leaked memo ?
Have you even got links to the numerous reports of people opting not to co operate with TN because I work at the coalface and I’m absolutely astounded.

jmcgill16 · 26-01-2018 07:07PM

splinter65 wrote: »

Best advice from who though? Can you give us a link to this advice ? Can you give us a link to the leaked memo ?
Have you even got links to the numerous reports of people opting not to co operate with TN because I work at the coalface and I’m absolutely astounded.

The image is a little small, but readable. The key section relates to someone attending all meetings, but refusing to sign the contract. They were initially sanctioned by DSP, but this was then subsequently overturned:

“Having reviewed our internal Penalty Rate (PR) Circular in light of the original
decision to apply same, it was noted that it did not provide for the application of a Penalty rate and subsequent nine-week disqualification period in a situation where someone refused to sign the Personal Progression Plan (PPP) but indicated that they would still engage with a prescribed programme.”

Since this happened I've personally known three people who've done exactly the same, and have had no sanctions applied to them. But they've been dropped by Turas Nua/Seetac.

Which exact "coalface" are you working at?

Twelve Bar Blues · 27-01-2018 11:44AM

jmcgill16 wrote: »

The image is a little small, but readable. The key section relates to someone attending all meetings, but refusing to sign the contract. They were initially sanctioned by DSP, but this was then subsequently overturned:

Since this happened I've personally known three people who've done exactly the same, and have had no sanctions applied to them. But they've been dropped by Turas Nua/Seetac.

Which exact "coalface" are you working at?

Interesting...... but it seems that this was a decision made on one case of a participant not signing the PPP, and maybe not a general rule.

Farmer Bob · 27-01-2018 12:49PM

splinter65 wrote: »

I work at the coalface and I’m absolutely astounded.

The 'coalface'. lol.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Dealing with the great unwashed is tough, huh?

splinter65 · 27-01-2018 01:08PM

Farmer Bob wrote: »

The 'coalface'. lol.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Dealing with the great unwashed is tough, huh?

Do you find it tough? I don’t! I enjoy it!

splinter65 · 27-01-2018 01:12PM

jmcgill16 wrote: »

The image is a little small, but readable. The key section relates to someone attending all meetings, but refusing to sign the contract. They were initially sanctioned by DSP, but this was then subsequently overturned:

Since this happened I've personally known three people who've done exactly the same, and have had no sanctions applied to them. But they've been dropped by Turas Nua/Seetac.

Which exact "coalface" are you working at?

But the client did continue to attend the meetings and engaged with TN/Seetec so what is your point exactly?
I’m concerned that your rather randomly encouraging posters not to engage with Jobpath when you absolutely know full well that there will be consequences if they don’t .

jmcgill16 · 27-01-2018 02:45PM

splinter65 wrote: »

But the client did continue to attend the meetings and engaged with TN/Seetec so what is your point exactly?
I’m concerned that your rather randomly encouraging posters not to engage with Jobpath when you absolutely know full well that there will be consequences if they don’t .

I made my point very clearly in my first post: that the best method of dealing with TN/Seetac currently is to attend every meeting you're called to, but refuse to sign the contract. That this will then result in TN/Seetac dropping you, with no sanctions applied by the department.

You have yet to answer my question, which exact "coalface" do you work at that you're professing knowledge of this that counteracts both a department circular that I posted, and my own personal experience?

Farmer Bob · 29-01-2018 09:13AM

Reports in the papers this morning say that only 18% of people referred to JobPath found employment through the scheme, at a cost of €84million.

According to Government documents, seen by the Irish Examiner, just 18% or 6,111 out of 39,603 people selected for the scheme in the year July 2015 to June 2016 secured full-time employment. This means the cost per successful appointment was €13,772.

Social Democrats leader Catherine Murphy said the revelations contained in the documents merit a full investigation. "I have long had concerns about the quality of the scheme, when you take it with the stories from those who enrolled, but now there are real questions to be asked about the value-for- money aspect"

Great use of taxpayers money eh?

terryduff12 · 30-01-2018 12:07AM

Back for my second run at it after 6 months off, took girl a year to do a C.V. for me only got it back at end of course and information was incorrect. Pure waste of time.

blowin3 · 03-02-2018 09:03AM

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Did you sign their contract?. Must have done if they have their claws in lad

I did and I have had a second meeting with them. The lady logged the hours I have worked into her computer and thanked me and said she would see me in 3 weeks. The lady also told me if I am working that date just let her know and there was no problem missing the meeting.
But the can not dock any money off of me as I dont get anything from welfare as they have means tested me at 98e for every day worked. I am on a zero hour contract and work day to day as booked but no guarantee getting work hence X and Os .

Jurgen Klopp · 06-02-2018 01:34AM

jmcgill16 wrote: »

I made my point very clearly in my first post: that the best method of dealing with TN/Seetac currently is to attend every meeting you're called to, but refuse to sign the contract. That this will then result in TN/Seetac dropping you, with no sanctions applied by the department.

Being serious here. If you don't sign the progress plan how can you claim you attended and engaged for the department.

I was with then before and I remember a log book you sign in when you arrive and leave and the time but think it was for the event of fire like I've seen in colleges and that

I do remember at the end of each session you signed another piece of paper to receive your travel costs for petrol

Are we talking refusing to a sign a single document day one that mentions data protection or are we talking about refusing to sign the form for travel costs

Or is the PPP separate, I can't remember

Another thing that interests and maybe you won't know but take an above poster who's on his second go with them.

I wonder what's the story if he signed it the first time but refused to sign it for his second stint ? Is it a fresh case

Twelve Bar Blues · 06-02-2018 12:38PM

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

Being serious here. If you don't sign the progress plan how can you claim you attended and engaged for the department.

I was with then before and I remember a log book you sign in when you arrive and leave and the time but think it was for the event of fire like I've seen in colleges and that

I do remember at the end of each session you signed another piece of paper to receive your travel costs for petrol

Are we talking refusing to a sign a single document day one that mentions data protection or are we talking about refusing to sign the form for travel costs

Or is the PPP separate, I can't remember

Another thing that interests and maybe you won't know but take an above poster who's on his second go with them.

I wonder what's the story if he signed it the first time but refused to sign it for his second stint ? Is it a fresh case

Signing the Personal Progression Plan is effectively signing a contract, without the absolute specifics, it includes an agreement between the 'customer' and Turas Nua that the customer will furnish TN with details of their new employer and agree that TN can contact said employer at different intervals throughout their employment. TN receive a bonus at different stages of your employment.
Effectively they are being rewarded monetarily for helping you get the job (whether they did or did not).
You can still engage without signing the PPP. And you are not breaking any rules by not signing, as long as you engage by attending meetings, apply for jobs, courses etc. This was confirmed by a High Court ruling recently. You cannot be forced into a contract with any private company. The DSP encourage the customer to sign, but it is not and cannot be forced.

The sign-in sheet is a fire registration form, health and safety.
And the signature for travel expenses is just that.

Frustrated with Turas Nua

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