The Orville

Inviere · 12-12-2017 5:04pm

I'm gonna give The Orville one last shot, so need advice on which episode to watch. I've tried before, but could only last literally minutes before turning it off...I keep hearing about the TNG feel etc, so what's a good ep to showcase the show?

12-12-2017 5:08pm

About a girl.

It's episode 3 so if you've seen it then I'd (personally) take it that it's not for me

Goodshape · 12-12-2017 5:16pm

Inviere wrote: »

I'm gonna give The Orville one last shot, so need advice on which episode to watch. I've tried before, but could only last literally minutes before turning it off...I keep hearing about the TNG feel etc, so what's a good ep to showcase the show?

First keep in mind that TNG was pretty ropey for it's first couple seasons. And Orville isn't perfect either! It feels a bit like TNG, sure, but it's not a 'greatest hits'.

Looking through the list, the best episodes, I thought, were:

Ep. 4 – "If the Stars Should Appear"

Ep. 5 – "Pria" (with Charlize Theron, and directed by Jonathan Frakes (TNG's Riker))

Ep. 7 – "Majority Rule"

Ep. 8 – "Into the Fold"

EP. 9 – "Cupid's Dagger"

Ep 12 – "Mad Idolatry" (season final, though it's a totally stand-alone episode)

So I guess that's half of all the episodes! Not a bad hit rate.

Again though, it's a light-hearted sci-fi adventure show. Don't expect "best-of" quality TNG, or bloody Blade Runner or something. Relax and enjoy. It's an easy watch.

Inviere · 12-12-2017 5:19pm

Cheers folks, will take a look

silverharp · 19-12-2017 5:00pm

the last episode was very good , you could see where the plot setup was going as it doffed a cap to a voyager episode, a couple genuine lol moments too

Starfleet Student · 23-12-2017 10:09pm

Hi everyone is the Orville worth watching?
Heard bad thing about the first episode is it the same for all or does it get better?

23-12-2017 10:26pm

Inviere wrote: »

Cheers folks, will take a look

So how did it go for ya?

pah · 24-12-2017 1:28am

Starfleet Student wrote: »

Hi everyone is the Orville worth watching?
Heard bad thing about the first episode is it the same for all or does it get better?

If you can't even read the last few pages of this thread for some ideas and opinions then I wouldn't bother watching it.

Wolverine359 · 25-12-2017 1:46am

Just wondering if this thread could be merged with the Orville thread in the main Television forum? I cannot for the life of me understand why it exists here in the dedicated Star Trek forum. I get that it parodies a lot of Trek ideas etc but it doesn’t belong here, it’s not a spin-off or anything related to actual Star Trek series. I cringe every time I see it here tbh when I just want to read Trek discussions.

Goodshape · 25-12-2017 5:39am

I like discussing Orville with Star Trek fans. Also I don't subscribe to the TV forum and was barely aware there was an Orville thread on there. The two can coexist, I think.

the_syco · 25-12-2017 6:56am

The first three episodes were crap. The forth, and the ones after felt like TNG.

Sleeper12 · 25-12-2017 7:59am

I watched the first two yesterday. I not sure what I think tbh. I've always liked Seth Mc Farland and there are a few gags but just feel that it could be better. I'm planning on watching a few more.

Inviere · 25-12-2017 8:36am

Wolverine359 wrote: »

Just wondering if this thread could be merged with the Orville thread in the main Television forum? I cannot for the life of me understand why it exists here in the dedicated Star Trek forum. I get that it parodies a lot of Trek ideas etc but it doesn’t belong here, it’s not a spin-off or anything related to actual Star Trek series. I cringe every time I see it here tbh when I just want to read Trek discussions.

Agreed, it's annoying being notified/coming here to read new posts only to see they're about a show that isn't Star Trek.

FutureGuy · 11-01-2018 11:09pm

I’m going to make an admission.

I **** all over Orville a few months ago after watching 20 minutes of it. I think I really took offense at the amount of bile being spewed at Discovery and it tainted my opinion of it.

Having watched up to Priya, I now get the Orville in a big way. Yes, the humor can be a little purile but it is as close to a TV show has come to Older Trek, particularly TNG. Part morality play, part family guy, part TNG.

The fact that it feels so like TNG makes the humor really pop because you are not expecting it at all - your not used to that type of humour in this setting. One minute talking about the ethics of caging animals and the next talking about testicles.

The show has a ton of heart.

We are in a great age - Discovery on a Monday and Orville on Fox on a Thursday. &#55357;&#56834; It’s like Trek twice a week.

Sleeper12 · 14-01-2018 12:53pm

It's growing on me. Just finished episode 4. The all to brief appearance of Liam Nesson was a pleasant surprise.

Tenigate · 14-01-2018 1:37pm

I just watched episode 1 last night.

Months ago i watched 2 eps of STD. I hated it. It was everything wrong with the first 2 reboot movies, with added unpredictable and unprofessional female officers, retarded klingons, a liberal political agenda beneath the surface, unnecessary grimness, and bad storytelling.

So, i gave STD a fair chance by watching the first 2 eps and I'm under the impression from message boards that it hasn't improved any. I'm not interested. It's disappointing, because i enjoyed the 3rd movie so much and really looked forward to the new series expecting big budget star trek on the small screen

I'll point out i wasn't too pushed on Enterprise and stopped watching it, too. I felt they were attempting to set up a story arc they hadn't even written and it felt pretty tired from the beginning.

Which brings me to ep 1 of the Orville. It feels like star trek. It looks like star trek. The annoying ginger chap with his joyride at the beginning really wasn't that much worse than tom paris would have done. The wooden horse thing wasn't far off a TNG episode resolution. And i guess, as the visuals and even some stories of TOS and TNG can look so silly to our 21st century eyes, the silly humour in the Orville doesn't feel so out of place. It just sets a lighthearted tone and reminds you you're not meant to take the episodes too seriously.

One review said it's an ideal future, except humans haven't changed.

My observation (and I'm sure everyone's observation) is that it's star trek in spirit, whereas STD is star trek in name.

Therefore, STD gets to use all the assets of the star trek universe.. decades of storylines, alien races, characters, objects, costumes... But is also restricted by them. Why they chose to set it as a prequel to TOS despite being such a departure from it is anyone's guess.

The Orville has to be happy with being a star trek clone, or a tribute. It can't break new ground or become too serious because it won't be the lighthearted and enjoyable escape. It's not part of the star trek universe, the canon, it can't use the storylines or characters except maybe as gags or irreverent references.

Yet, here i am, looking forward to ep 2 of the orville, but holding out for someone to tell me STD feels like star trek before i waste time watching another episode.

_Kaiser_ · 14-01-2018 3:56pm

To be fair to Discovery, like you I wasn't very impressed at all by the first few episodes. I HATE what they've done to the Klingons - from the make-up to the ship designs, and Burnham is a bad choice IMO as the lead. I agree with you as well that it's far closer to JJ Trek or BSG than classic Trek. I'm still not convinced about how they plan to make this all line up with the events of the TOS series which takes place 10 years later from Discovery's perspective.

BUT...

If you mentally view it as a standalone, modern (in terms of tone), big-budget sci-fi show with some familiar terminology (ie: the Orville without the budget) it becomes far more watchable as the episodes go on. It was a mistake not to start the show on the Discovery itself, but once they get there (and I'm trying to avoid spoilers in case you do decide to watch more

) it gets far better. The Captain of that ship (Lorca) is FAR more interesting than Burnham and despite what the producers may have intended, I think he's become the actual lead in particularly the most recent episodes. It'll still annoy you in places, but that's why i say to try and view it as a separate thing.

The Orville on the other hand went from strength to strength in season one as they adjusted the balance between plot/story and Family Guy humor. They still have a bit of tweaking to go, but for me it's been a great first season.

The thing I find most bizarre is the hostility from "real" Trek fans to both Orville and anyone not on-board with Discovery's changes and tone. For whatever reason they view the situation as more black and white, one or the other. Me I'm content to watch both for now.

14-01-2018 5:49pm

Tenigate wrote: »

My observation (and I'm sure everyone's observation)

Nah you're better off just speaking for yourself and don't assume anything of the sort

14-01-2018 5:54pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

To be fair to Discovery, like you I wasn't very impressed at all by the first few episodes. I HATE what they've done to the Klingons - from the make-up to the ship designs, and Burnham is a bad choice IMO as the lead. I agree with you as well that it's far closer to JJ Trek or BSG than classic Trek. I'm still not convinced about how they plan to make this all line up with the events of the TOS series which takes place 10 years later from Discovery's perspective.

BUT...

If you mentally view it as a standalone, modern (in terms of tone), big-budget sci-fi show with some familiar terminology (ie: the Orville without the budget) it becomes far more watchable as the episodes go on. It was a mistake not to start the show on the Discovery itself, but once they get there (and I'm trying to avoid spoilers in case you do decide to watch more ) it gets far better. The Captain of that ship (Lorca) is FAR more interesting than Burnham and despite what the producers may have intended, I think he's become the actual lead in particularly the most recent episodes. It'll still annoy you in places, but that's why i say to try and view it as a separate thing.

The Orville on the other hand went from strength to strength in season one as they adjusted the balance between plot/story and Family Guy humor. They still have a bit of tweaking to go, but for me it's been a great first season.

The thing I find most bizarre is the hostility from "real" Trek fans to both Orville and anyone not on-board with Discovery's changes and tone. For whatever reason they view the situation as more black and white, one or the other. Me I'm content to watch both for now.

I really like both, I dislike the people who use Orville as a blunt stick to smash the "This is real Trek" line out.

As I said before, I think that the Orville would have been ripped to shreds by those very same people if it were Star Trek: Orville.

No one Trek series has been like the previous, so I still would love to know what people view as "Real Trek"

Anyway in relation to Orville, I love it's homage to TNG (and I do find it much more TNG than TOS) but that is what it is, a love letter to Trek of the 80's.
I hope that it moves away from that a bit to become even more of its own show

Tenigate · 14-01-2018 6:19pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As I said before, I think that the Orville would have been ripped to shreds by those very same people if it were Star Trek: Orville.

Nah you're better off just speaking for yourself and don't think anything of the sort

And what a petty, prissy little comment btw-in response to one sentence in my post. What's wrong with you?

pixelburp · 14-01-2018 6:19pm

Man the whole Orville v. Trek argument is beyond tedious at this stage. As if liking both is a completely mutually exclusive concept. They’re BOTH Trek (albeit one being unofficially so), they both have their pros and cons, qualities and flaws yet ultimately some unlucky scheduling has them released at the same time; if nature abhors a vacuum, them clearly fandom abhors two similar objects of affection existing at the same time.

Honestly, I haven’t enjoyed Orville and I hate Seth McFarlane as a lead actor & writer so that show was always off to a rough start with me; but in the end it’s obviously a labour of love for McFarlane, very much the quintessential Trek fanboy, even if the output is arguably a clear example of a TV show equivalent of a Tribute Band. A show that plays all the old hits, just as you remember them, barely with a voice of its own. So of course it’s a more enticing prospect to some Trek fans than the edgier Discovery, itself deciding to push Trek in a new, unexplored territory - with mixed but generally interesting & positive results.

And that’s fine! If you just want to watch old Trek stories with some modern polish, then more power to you, but Discovery has its own charms (once you get past the debatable 2-part opening - the 3d episode is the REAL pilot) that shouldn’t need or have to be compared with another show, or pilloried because it’s trying something new.

Sad Professor · 14-01-2018 7:53pm

Tenigate wrote: »

Nah you're better off just speaking for yourself and don't think anything of the sort

And what a petty, prissy little comment btw-in response to one sentence in my post. What's wrong with you?

Keep it friendly please.

15-01-2018 11:58am

Tenigate wrote: »

Nah you're better off just speaking for yourself and don't think anything of the sort

And what a petty, prissy little comment btw-in response to one sentence in my post. What's wrong with you?

Big difference in our comments. I'm basing my view point on observations on Trek's fandom's often rabid approach to change. As opposed to being somewhat derisory of those with different opinion.

I also state "think" and am open to correction versus being "sure" and locking that point down as non arguable fact.

It is very possible to like both but, while it is developing its own voice, Orville is playing it relatively safe and hitting the right notes to keep you entertained without TOO much thought.

At the same time it's far far better than it had any right to be and looking forward to its return

seamus · 15-01-2018 12:09pm

pixelburp wrote: »

A show that plays all the old hits, just as you remember them, barely with a voice of its own.

I think that's unfair to be honest.
There are certainly lots of very standard tropes in use in terms of settings and misunderstandings. There are lots of echoes from TNG and Stargate: SG-1.

But most of the wider arcs/themes in an episode are surprisingly unique and not just TNG episodes redone in a different show. It seems clear that MacFarlane has done his best to avoid this, and probably has had a few of these up his sleeve for years.

IMHO, obviously. It does take the fourth or fifth episode to properly find its feet and warm up. It moves away from the "jokes every minute" format that it was pitched at and settles closer to the SG-1 format of serious stories interjected with frequent light-hearted moments. With a few outright MacFarlane-style jokes too.
This makes it less jarring and much easier to enjoy overall.

2ndcoming · 15-01-2018 4:21pm

Shared from Discovery Pre-show thread, fits as well here....

Having sat down and watched the first ten episodes of each I think I have to side with The Orville.

Discovery is Star Trek trying to do Peak TV; The Orville is a reaction to Peak TV in general.

Not everything has to have a multi-layered, continuous epic story full of twists and intrigue a la Game Of Thrones. The beauty for most casual fans of Trek was that it offered one hour of casual escapism. You know there will be some deus ex machina solution to that week's potential catastrophe in the last 5 minutes of the episode, but you don't care.

The Orville's approach of being part-parody, part-homage is risky because it's a hard balance to get right. A TNG style show in this day and age couldn't possibly take itself as seriously but the humour can't come from taking the pi55 out of the inspiration or it will alienate fans of the original (as a massive Star Wars fan growing up, I loathed Space Balls for this reason), so McFarlane's brand of off topic quips and sidetrack jokes is actually the right fit.

The Rotten Tomatoes scores are very illuminating: Discovery has an 82% critic score but only 55% from audiences, The Orville has a brutal 20% critic score but 93% approval from the public. I guess this is what the casual fan / tv viewer actually wants from their space fantasy workplace procedural.

15-01-2018 4:42pm

2ndcoming wrote: »

Shared from Discovery Pre-show thread, fits as well here....

Having sat down and watched the first ten episodes of each I think I have to side with The Orville.

Discovery is Star Trek trying to do Peak TV; The Orville is a reaction to Peak TV in general.

Not everything has to have a multi-layered, continuous epic story full of twists and intrigue a la Game Of Thrones. The beauty for most casual fans of Trek was that it offered one hour of casual escapism. You know there will be some deus ex machina solution to that week's potential catastrophe in the last 5 minutes of the episode, but you don't care.

The Orville's approach of being part-parody, part-homage is risky because it's a hard balance to get right. A TNG style show in this day and age couldn't possibly take itself as seriously but the humour can't come from taking the pi55 out of the inspiration or it will alienate fans of the original (as a massive Star Wars fan growing up, I loathed Space Balls for this reason), so McFarlane's brand of off topic quips and sidetrack jokes is actually the right fit.

The Rotten Tomatoes scores are very illuminating: Discovery has an 82% critic score but only 55% from audiences, The Orville has a brutal 20% critic score but 93% approval from the public. I guess this is what the casual fan / tv viewer actually wants from their space fantasy workplace procedural.

Someone needs to tell DS9 that multi layered arcs are not allowed in Trek

Goodshape · 15-01-2018 4:57pm

I'm very happy that they didn't try to copy the TNG formula again with Discovery. Voyager and Enterprise both felt very stale and bereft of ideas – and that was 10 and 20 years ago!

And I'm also quite happy that The Orville exists so I can get a slightly new, slightly fresh, slightly funny take on the TNG-style stories I grew up on.

I'd share Cork_exile's suspicions too; if Discovery came out and had stories like Orville's – basically rehashing old TNG/sci-fi tropes for the 3rd or 4th time under a 'Star Trek' banner – people would be pissed.

That doesn't mean anyone has to like what they're doing with Discovery but, well, I do! So that works for me.

FutureGuy wrote: »

We are in a great age - Discovery on a Monday and Orville on Fox on a Thursday. It’s like Trek twice a week.

100% this.

2ndcoming · 15-01-2018 5:07pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Someone needs to tell DS9 that multi layered arcs are not allowed in Trek

It's not that they're not allowed, it's not what makes the shows popular to a casual viewer (such as myself). DS9 is regularly quoted as the favourite of hardcore Trekkies. The hipster choice to the Filthy Casuals of TNG maybe. I grew up watching the shows of the TNG / DS9 era and re-watching over the past couple of years on SyFy and Netflix, I struggle now with DS9. The Dominion, the Founders, the Jem Hadar etc I just find it all a bit... boring.

From a critical point of view TNG is probably overly formulaic, dated etc etc but for me it's a nostalgia trip to a simpler time ironically set 350 years in the future. The Orville gets that spirit of light-hearted escapism very well I think.

Greyjoy · 15-01-2018 5:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Someone needs to tell DS9 that multi layered arcs are not allowed in Trek

DS9 still managed to tell satisfying single episodes within its overall arc. The episodes worked on their own but still fitted into the overall arc of each season. Discovery on the other hand is essentially telling one long story chopped up into smaller 'chapters'. Discovery is so heavily serialised that each episode only works in the context of the season overall.

Goodshape · 15-01-2018 5:33pm

(whispers)

I wasn't mad about DS9 either

Kinda preferred the first few seasons of DS9 tbh. Once the war starts it all gets a bit boring and depressing. They certainly succeeded in ripping the fun and optimism out of it all.

Discovery seems to know how to have fun too though – and definitely a few of these episodes I'd enjoy watching as a stand-alone. Also, unlike DS9, it's not taking ~25 episodes a season to get through the story-arc. A Star Trek story over 15 really well produced, high-budget, slick looking episodes... what's not to love?!

The Orville

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