Should religious paraphernalia be removed from polling stations on the day of voting?

G_R wrote: »

I think you can be fairly confident it will be "Do you agree with repealing the 8th amendment to the Irish constitution"

We've seen the trouble having specifics in the constitution causes. I don't think they'd be stupid enough to start listing valid reasons for an abortion in the constitution.

That would be my preference, but the citizens' assembly (which I strongly disagree with and think is incredibly undemocratic) voted against having a repeal referendum and strongly in favour having an amendment referendum.

This is totally off topic though, my point was some people decode 6 months before a question has been set and others decide while reading the two options on the ballot paper.

I myself have changed my mind in the polling booth to swap the order of my second and 3rd preference in a general election.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Not necessarily, the Children's Referendum had the second lowest turnout of the electorate in our history with only 33% of the electorate turning out to vote. I would suggest that people only turn out to vote in referenda when they feel the outcome will directly affect them.

That whole referendum campaign was a mess. Including the biased publications by the department of children. The fact that the supreme court ruled that the government had used public funding to produce biased information in favour of voting yes, just a couple of days before the referendum, understandably put a lot of voters off and caused a lot of doubt.

Added to the fact that all the neutral information from ref com was ridiculously vague, people just didn't know what way to vote, not that they didn't care, or that it didn't affect them so they didn't vote. I myself sent numerous emails at the time to try and understand what it was all about and most of the responses amounted to "its to protect children"- nothing about the specifics of how that would happen in real terms. My mind is foggy on the legislative details but the aspects I do remember from the referendum, i can understand exactly why people didn't vote.

This one time I was going to vote and on my way in I saw a Padre Pio sticker in a car window and accidently voted Sinn Fein.

Maybe they should get the nearby clothes shops to remove any coat hangers that can be seen from the street?

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Don't tell me.. You're an atheist right? :pac:

Oh God don’t get any of them started. He/she’s already suggested in another post that “others” mightn’t be as “strong minded” as he/she.
Cos , you know, only atheists are “strong minded”!

Oldtree wrote: »

There's a very good idea.

In our area, the school hall has about 5 or 6 steps at the entrance, while the GAA club has level access, and a lift to the main function room - so it would be much better for wheelchair users or anyone a bit unsteady on their feet too.

G_R wrote: »

I think you can be fairly confident it will be "Do you agree with repealing the 8th amendment to the Irish constitution"

We've seen the trouble having specifics in the constitution causes. I don't think they'd be stupid enough to start listing valid reasons for an abortion in the constitution.

You're probably right on the main referendum question, but the context is not yet clear. Will there be a political commitment to bring in legislation to allow abortion? What conditions will apply about gestation periods or other requirements?

Oldtree wrote: »

I think we can agree that what is outside the polling station isn't the issue here.

I'm not so sure. As I walked into the polling station in our school for the SSM referendum, I passed the church entrance as the Corpus Christi parade was entering, complete with chanting and waving around of gold crosses and other paraphernalia. There are definitely people who would be susceptible to this influence.

splinter65 wrote: »

Your lack of confidence in ordinary Irish people, or rather your sense of personal superiority, is disheartening to say the very least.

So just to be clear, you don't think this proposal is necessary - but do you have any fundamental objection to a plan to remove all religious paraphernalia (bibles, statues, etc) from polling stations on the day?

One eyed Jack wrote: »

That only explains why you didn't vote. The specifics and legislative details were widely available to anyone who was actually interested in them, and of course as has been noted elsewhere already, of course the Government would be interested in seeing a referendum pass, same as they had an interest in seeing the marriage equality referendum pass, same as they'll be interested in seeing this referendum pass, or it will go down in history as a failure against their leadership.

I did vote.

Completely missing the point of the Supreme Court ruling there but ok.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I didn't miss it, I just remember that the High Court ruled that the Governments conduct did not have a material effect on the outcome of the referendum is all, and an appeal to overturn the result of the referendum was rejected by the same Supreme Court -


The Supreme Court has rejected an appeal against the 2012 Children's Referendum result.

The court this morning gave its decision on a challenge by a woman to a High Court ruling rejecting her petition to overturn the result.

She also appealed the High Court's decision to reject her challenge to the laws governing the bringing of such petitions.

Joanna Jordan, from Dún Laoghaire in Dublin, brought a petition to the High Court aimed at overturning the Yes vote in the Children's Referendum held in November 2012.

She had argued that the Government's use of public money to fund an unbalanced information campaign had materially affected the outcome of the referendum.

Shortly before the referendum took place, the Supreme Court held that the Government's spending of more than €1m of public money on a one-sided information campaign was a clear disregard of the limits imposed by the Constitution on what the State may do in a referendum.

However, the High Court rejected her case, saying the Government's conduct did not have a material effect on the outcome of the referendum.


Source: Supreme Court rejects appeal on 2012 Children's Referendum

I'm aware of that but my point was you were missing the point the that a government can't just breach McKenna Principles to get the result they want. I was referring to your post about "of course they wanted the referendum to pass".

Oldtree wrote: »

No. I am simply not superstitious.

superstitious? Hmm. What a strange word to use in response. Almost like you are taking a jab at religious people.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

In our area, the school hall has about 5 or 6 steps at the entrance, while the GAA club has level access, and a lift to the main function room - so it would be much better for wheelchair users or anyone a bit unsteady on their feet too.



You're probably right on the main referendum question, but the context is not yet clear. Will there be a political commitment to bring in legislation to allow abortion? What conditions will apply about gestation periods or other requirements?

I'm not so sure. As I walked into the polling station in our school for the SSM referendum, I passed the church entrance as the Corpus Christi parade was entering, complete with chanting and waving around of gold crosses and other paraphernalia. There are definitely people who would be susceptible to this influence.



So just to be clear, you don't think this proposal is necessary - but do you have any fundamental objection to a plan to remove all religious paraphernalia (bibles, statues, etc) from polling stations on the day?

Would you not lobby your TD to ensure that referenda are not held around important religious dates? Because I know for sure your not suggesting that religious bodies should be forced to move these dates around to accommodate referenda , which let’s face it, can really be held anytime?
Also, the GAA is a private clubhouse, paid for privately, how would they be compelled to accommodate a public vote in anything , also, what makes you think that there is no religious iconography in GAA clubhouses?