Should religious paraphernalia be removed from polling stations on the day of voting?

Oldtree

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I have no interest in religion and actively dislike the doctrine around it, but I don't care at all what items there are in a polling station.

I'd vote in a church if needs be. It has no effect on my vote or likelihood to vote. Don't care.

I think it is more about protecting those umong our community who perhaps are not as strong-minded as us.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Agricola wrote: »

I'd imagine that represents a large proportion of the voting public on any given polling day.

Not at all. While opinion polls are no exact science, the 'don't knows' are usually a small minority. No way can you say 'a large proportion' of voters don't know how they will vote before they go into the polling station. Most Don't Knows don't vote at all.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And how many places in Ireland actually have such a hall, thats not attached to a church or a school?

Community centers. Town halls. Most areas have one lying idle during the day.

eviltwin

Akrasia wrote: »

It's not that people are stupid, it's that human cognition is imperfect and subject to subconscious biases.

People think differently when in different environments. If you were any way on the fence about abortion, you could be nudged into voting against it by having to do so inside a church or in a building with a lot of religious iconography. If the referendum is close, 1 or 2% of voters who were influenced to vote no instead of yes because they subconsciously felt the eyes of the church watching them vote could be enough to affect the outcome.

Would christians support having poling centers inside a rape crisis center?

If we were being asked to vote in a room full of newborns I would agree but we are going to be voting in a school hall or community centre

My polling station is the local Catholic school, I have to pass a big statue of Mary and a cross or two to get to the hall. It's unfair to ask schools to hide this stuff because AI are offended.

I have made up my mind on how I will be voting. I reckon most will have made up theirs by polling day and I doubt they will be swayed.

Oldtree

Scarlette Modern Muffin wrote: »

If somebody goes to vote and is deflected from their intended opinion by the simple presence of a bible or a cross somewhere in the room, then they are easily influenced and obviously hadn't a notion what way they actually felt on the issue.

That may be one way of looking at it. But if they are voting in a blank voting station then they get to vote as they have decided beforehand, which is their rite, notion or no notion.

splinter65

Agricola wrote: »

It's not the bible I'm worried about. It's Mrs O' Flaherty, church caretaker and head polling clerk in my local parish since 1977. She gave me some filthy looks when I came in to vote on the same sex marriage. She'll really be gunning for the abortion vote.

If your afraid of Mrs O’Flaherty despite being old enough to vote, then that means that you actually believe that Mrs O’Flaherty has X-ray vision and in my opinion your vote doesn’t count, because you don’t actually have the capacity to vote in the first place.
The amount of voters in the country who believe Mrs O’Flaherty has X-ray vision and will come to their bedroom that night and kill them is so minuscule as to be negligible, so doesn’t matter.

Oldtree

Scarlette Modern Muffin wrote: »

And she'll know how anybody actually votes????

She is uncanny that way, we all have one!

Mrs OBumble

Agricola wrote: »

It's not the bible I'm worried about. It's Mrs O' Flaherty, church caretaker and head polling clerk in my local parish since 1977. She gave me some filthy looks when I came in to vote on the same sex marriage. She'll really be gunning for the abortion vote.

But a look from her in the (non-existant in most towns) commuity centre would have less effect?

splinter65

Oldtree wrote: »

I think it is more about protecting those umong our community who perhaps are not as strong-minded as us.

Protecting them from what? Making up their own minds?

Oldtree

splinter65 wrote: »

But are voters not being subconsciously influenced to vote one way or the other for weeks before hand by the campaigners for each side?
Are you seriously suggesting that churches and mosques and synagogues be asked to cover up the fronts of their buildings on polling day in case their adherents are swayed?
Or is it just Christians your bothered about?

It would be about anybody of any religion/or not that would be influenced in any way inside a polling station

One eyed Jack

Akrasia wrote: »

It's not that people are stupid, it's that human cognition is imperfect and subject to subconscious biases.

People think differently when in different environments. If you were any way on the fence about abortion, you could be nudged into voting against it by having to do so inside a church or in a building with a lot of religious iconography. If the referendum is close, 1 or 2% of voters who were influenced to vote no instead of yes because they subconsciously felt the eyes of the church watching them vote could be enough to affect the outcome.

Sounds to me like a long winded way of suggesting people are stupid and can't be trusted with no minds of their own.

Would christians support having poling centers inside a rape crisis center?

I'm trying to understand the relationship between Christianity and rape and on what basis you imagine I should find such a location objectionable or not?

Rape Crisis Centres aren't usually large enough in size to accommodate a polling booth btw, never mind a whole polling station :pac:

AndrewJRenko

Oldtree wrote: »

Maby a community building built by the community might be a better option.

Something like the GAA Club hall that exists in every townland in the country?

Oldtree

eviltwin wrote: »

If we were being asked to vote in a room full of newborns I would agree but we are going to be voting in a school hall or community centre

My polling station is the local Catholic school, I have to pass a big statue of Mary and a cross or two to get to the hall. It's unfair to ask schools to hide this stuff because AI are offended.

I have made up my mind on how I will be voting. I reckon most will have made up theirs by polling day and I doubt they will be swayed.

I think we can agree that what is outside the polling station isn't the issue here.

eviltwin

Oldtree wrote: »

I think we can agree that what is outside the polling station isn't the issue here.

So what is the issue? A Bible on a desk?

Oldtree

splinter65 wrote: »

If your afraid of Mrs O’Flaherty despite being old enough to vote, then that means that you actually believe that Mrs O’Flaherty has X-ray vision and in my opinion your vote doesn’t count, because you don’t actually have the capacity to vote in the first place.
The amount of voters in the country who believe Mrs O’Flaherty has X-ray vision and will come to their bedroom that night and kill them is so minuscule as to be negligible, so doesn’t matter.

Lads used to stand outside the polling stations here and would get a surprisingly accurate count just by looking at the voters. Perhaps just by standing outside the polling station they influenced the voters.

GarIT

Deleted User wrote: »

Community centers. Town halls. Most areas have one lying idle during the day.

Don't forget GAA clubs, I don't know anywhere without a GAA club.

Irish Guitarist

They're in for a shock when they discover that not everyone that votes against abortion will be doing so for religious reasons.

GarIT

eviltwin wrote: »

I have made up my mind on how I will be voting.

On what? Nobody's even been told what we are voting on yet.

eviltwin

GarIT wrote: »

On what? Nobody's even been told what we are voting on yet.

We have a fairly good idea

Oldtree

splinter65 wrote: »

Protecting them from what? Making up their own minds?

They have made up their minds. Whatever influenced their decision outdide the polling station I'm sure you would agree that there should be no influencing of any kind inside the polling station. The day of the vote is for reflection.

Agricola

Scarlette Modern Muffin wrote: »

Not at all. While opinion polls are no exact science, the 'don't knows' are usually a small minority. No way can you say 'a large proportion' of voters don't know how they will vote before they go into the polling station. Most Don't Knows don't vote at all.

Possibly. I think big ticket items like same sex marriage, abortion, etc are pretty straight forward, but we've had a few arcane referendums in recent years that largely flew over people's heads. People only engage for emotive issues, not for stuff like Lisbon.

splinter65 wrote: »

If your afraid of Mrs O’Flaherty despite being old enough to vote, then that means that you actually believe that Mrs O’Flaherty has X-ray vision and in my opinion your vote doesn’t count, because you don’t actually have the capacity to vote in the first place.
The amount of voters in the country who believe Mrs O’Flaherty has X-ray vision and will come to their bedroom that night and kill them is so minuscule as to be negligible, so doesn’t matter.

You clearly underestimate the pressure a Mrs O' Flaherty can exert on the ordinary voter. I'll tell you, if you come out of that polling booth after voting for men to marry each other or...........god save us.........after voting to kill a babby, well Mrs O' Flaherty will just sense it. She'll cut you in half with a look!

Oldtree

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Something like the GAA Club hall that exists in every townland in the country?

There's a very good idea.

Oldtree

eviltwin wrote: »

So what is the issue? A Bible on a desk?

Anything influencing voters inside a polling station.

GarIT

eviltwin wrote: »

We have a fairly good idea

At the moment it could realistically be anything from an amendment to allow abortion in the case of rape to allow abortion to anyone who wants one up to some yet undecided duration of the pregnancy.

My point was as easy as you can be sure months before a referendum when it's not even been decided what the question will be other people decide in the last 5 mins.

Oldtree

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

They're in for a shock when they discover that not everyone that votes against abortion will be doing so for religious reasons.

People will vote as they decide to for many reasons. I don't think anybody will think.of this as a black and white issue when the referendum comes.

thereality

GarIT wrote: »

Don't forget GAA clubs, I don't know anywhere without a GAA club.

Don't know anywhere? Don't know anywhere? Have you been to Dublin City...

Are you seriously expecting hundreds of thousands of Dubliners to get buses, walk etc from the City Centre to vote in the suburbs? Even when you get the inner suburbs with GAA clubs, they won't be able to handle the massive volumes of people

The results of the article you linked were swayed very marginally based on location. Expecting people to travel several kilometers to crowded suburbian polling stations will the vote far more than the current location.

Oldtree

GarIT wrote: »

At the moment it could realistically be anything from an amendment to allow abortion in the case of rape to allow abortion to anyone who wants one up to some yet undecided duration of the pregnancy.

My point was as easy as you can be sure months before a referendum when it's not even been decided what the question will be other people decide in the last 5 mins.

Some may only decide in the last few seconds and deserve to be free of any undue influence at that point with such an important decision.

Oldtree

thereality wrote: »

Don't know anywhere? Don't know anywhere? Have you been to Dublin City...

Are you seriously expecting hundreds of thousands of Dubliners to get buses, walk etc from the City Centre to vote in the suburbs? Even when you get the inner suburbs with GAA clubs, they won't be able to handle the massive volumes of people

The results of the article you linked were swayed very marginally based on location. Expecting people to travel several kilometers to crowded suburbian polling stations will the vote far more than the current location.

I think there are many local places, that won't involve any extra inconvenience to voters, available in a large city like Dublin that would suit.

One eyed Jack

Agricola wrote: »

Possibly. I think big ticket items like same sex marriage, abortion, etc are pretty straight forward, but we've had a few arcane referendums in recent years that largely flew over people's heads. People only engage for emotive issues, not for stuff like Lisbon.

Not necessarily, the Children's Referendum had the second lowest turnout of the electorate in our history with only 33% of the electorate turning out to vote. I would suggest that people only turn out to vote in referenda when they feel the outcome will directly affect them.

G_R

GarIT wrote: »

At the moment it could realistically be anything from an amendment to allow abortion in the case of rape to allow abortion to anyone who wants one up to some yet undecided duration of the pregnancy.

My point was as easy as you can be sure months before a referendum when it's not even been decided what the question will be other people decide in the last 5 mins.

I think you can be fairly confident it will be "Do you agree with repealing the 8th amendment to the Irish constitution"

We've seen the trouble having specifics in the constitution causes. I don't think they'd be stupid enough to start listing valid reasons for an abortion in the constitution.