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The Academies

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  • #1592
    ArmchairQB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 958 ✭✭✭ArmchairQB


    irishfan9 wrote: »
    I assume Connacht will take a long look at the sub academy players released by Leinster - Dunne, Duggan, Roche etc.

    They might but assume all in College as well and where will they play club wise in Connacht. The clubs are going down the leagues in Connacht so the system needs to change as academy players need top level club rugby to improve themselves and keep developing. Attitude with some of the players released may be the real problem especially not hitting targets etc some lads just dont get on in the academy sysytem to much scrutiny for them or personality conflicts anyway I hope they all go well and get what their looking for they may be happy to be out of the system


  • #1593
    irishfan9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭irishfan9


    ArmchairQB wrote: »
    They might but assume all in College as well and where will they play club wise in Connacht. The clubs are going down the leagues in Connacht so the system needs to change as academy players need top level club rugby to improve themselves and keep developing. Attitude with some of the players released may be the real problem especially not hitting targets etc some lads just dont get on in the academy sysytem to much scrutiny for them or personality conflicts anyway I hope they all go well and get what their looking for they may be happy to be out of the system

    well if they don't get on in the academy system they are hardly going to get on in the pro system..

    also not the first time personality may have cost a player an academy place.

    Not too hard to guess Leinster academy class for next season IMO.


  • #1594
    Dog Botherer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭Dog Botherer


    irishfan9 wrote: »
    well if they don't get on in the academy system they are hardly going to get on in the pro system..

    also not the first time personality may have cost a player an academy place.

    Not too hard to guess Leinster academy class for next season IMO.

    Some very good players have come through the AIL to the pro game after not making it into an academy. Niyi Adeoluken and Barry Daly immediately spring to mind.


  • #1595
    irishfan9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭irishfan9


    Dog Botherer wrote: »
    Some very good players have come through the AIL to the pro game after not making it into an academy. Niyi Adeoluken and Barry Daly immediately spring to mind.

    And?

    I'm sure both would have succeeded if in an academy aswell.. if players can't handle demands of academy they will struggle to handle demands of pro setup.


  • #1596
    Dog Botherer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭Dog Botherer


    irishfan9 wrote: »
    And?

    I'm sure both would have succeeded if in an academy aswell.. if players can't handle demands of academy they will struggle to handle demands of pro setup.

    The point is they didn't make the academy. Irish academies are very good at skimming the cream of the talent off the top, but they still miss the odd drop or two. Good players sometimes fall through the cracks, the academies are not the final arbiters of whether someone is good enough to go pro.


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  • #1597
    irishfan9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭irishfan9


    Dog Botherer wrote: »
    The point is they didn't make the academy. Irish academies are very good at skimming the cream of the talent off the top, but they still miss the odd drop or two. Good players sometimes fall through the cracks, the academies are not the final arbiters of whether someone is good enough to go pro.

    did i say they were?

    all these players could potentially make it professionally..

    if they arent set out for academy life now then maybe with some maturing they will down the line


  • #1598
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,741 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    irishfan9 wrote: »
    And?

    I'm sure both would have succeeded if in an academy aswell.. if players can't handle demands of academy they will struggle to handle demands of pro setup.

    Barry Daly was in the sub academy and wasn't awarded a place. So he went off and played AIL and showed what he could do there. Same with Niyi he was part of the development squads but Leinster didn't deem him good enough so he went off and played with Trinity.

    It's not a case of whether they would have succeeded if part of the academy, but rather that they were turned down by the academy and used the AIL to showcase that they could succeed regardless.


  • #1599
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Squidgy Black wrote: »
    Barry Daly was in the sub academy and wasn't awarded a place. So he went off and played AIL and showed what he could do there. Same with Niyi he was part of the development squads but Leinster didn't deem him good enough so he went off and played with Trinity.

    It's not a case of whether they would have succeeded if part of the academy, but rather that they were turned down by the academy and used the AIL to showcase that they could succeed regardless.

    Ah come on that's not really what his point was supposed to be at all...

    Somehow someone saying "guys who don't have the personality to succeed in an academy likely won't make it in pro rugby" has been interpreted as "guys who don't make the academy won't succeed in pro rugby". It's not the same thing.


  • #1600
    irishfan9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭irishfan9


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Ah come on that's not really what his point was supposed to be at all...

    Somehow someone saying "guys who don't have the personality to succeed in an academy likely won't make it in pro rugby" has been interpreted as "guys who don't make the academy won't succeed in pro rugby". It's not the same thing.

    thanks.


  • #1601
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    irishfan9 wrote: »
    I assume Connacht will take a long look at the sub academy players released by Leinster - Dunne, Duggan, Roche etc.
    They may. But obviously will focus on those in Connacht and from Connacht but are in boarding schools elsewhere
    ArmchairQB wrote: »
    They might but assume all in College as well and where will they play club wise in Connacht. The clubs are going down the leagues in Connacht so the system needs to change as academy players need top level club rugby to improve themselves and keep developing. Attitude with some of the players released may be the real problem especially not hitting targets etc some lads just dont get on in the academy sysytem to much scrutiny for them or personality conflicts anyway I hope they all go well and get what their looking for they may be happy to be out of the system
    How does system change though. Galwegians looking likely to be in division 2B next season but Corinthians will be in 2A most likely and with Buccs in 1B it isnt that bad. It will be similar to this season and pro senior squad players may look to transfer to Limerick/Dublin sides for division 1 rugby while academy players are involved in all clubs. Playing division 2 rugby isnt the worst thing for academy players at same time.


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  • #1602
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    better for lads to actually be playing AIL rugby
    you learn by playing the game


  • #1603
    irishfan9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭irishfan9


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    better for lads to actually be playing AIL rugby
    you learn by playing the game

    yeah all those academy players who are now professionals really suffered from being the academy


  • #1604
    irishfan9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭irishfan9


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    They may. But obviously will focus on those in Connacht and from Connacht but are in boarding schools elsewhere

    not sure theres a need to point that out.. connacht rely on leinster for academy players so naturally players not wanted by leinster will be evaluated by connacht


  • #1605
    MDunne14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 413 ✭✭MDunne14


    irishfan9 wrote: »
    Connacht Academy

    Year 3
    Conan O'Donnell(Prop/Buccaneers)
    Conor Kyne(Prop/Galwegians)

    Year 2
    Conor Kenny(Prop/Buccaneers)
    Peter Claffey(Lock/Buccaneers)
    Cillian Gallagher(Lock/Corinthians)
    Stephen Kerins(Scrumhalf/Corinthians)
    Adam Leavy(Back three/Lansdowne)
    Matthew Byrne(Back three/Terenure)

    Year 1
    Matthew Burke(Prop/Corinthians)
    Paul Boyle(Backrow/Buccaneers)
    Sean Masterson(Backrow/Corinthians)
    Harley Fox(Backrow/?)
    Ryan Feehily(Scrumhalf/Sligo)
    Luke Carty(Outhalf/Buccaneers)
    Kieran Joyce(Centre/Corinthians)
    Jordan Conroy(Back three/Buccaneers)
    Colm de Buitléar(Back three/An Ghaeltacht/Corinthians)

    Connacht Sub Academy

    Ryan Lomas(Prop/Buccaneers)
    Brian Diffley(Prop/Buccaneers)
    Kuba Woitijowicz(Prop/Sligo)
    Liam Winnett(Prop/Buccanners)

    Callum Torpey(Hooker/Exile)
    Dylan Tierney(Hooker/Corinthians)

    Niall Murray(2nd Row/Buccaneers)
    Iarlaith Morrin Laheen(2nd Row/Galwegians)
    Darragh Murray(2nd Row/Buccaneers)

    Neal Moylett(Backrow/Ballina)
    Christian Nielson(Backrow/Sligo)
    Oisin McCormack(Backrow/Ballinasloe)
    Cian Huxford(Backrow/Corinthians)
    Andrew Murphy(Backrow/Blackrock)

    Richie Fahy(Scrumhalf/Blackrock)
    Colm Reilly(Scrumhalf/Ballinasloe)
    Ryan Feehily(Scrumhalf/Sligo)
    Rory Gaffney(Scrumhalf/Galwegians)

    Morgan Codyre(Outhalf/Galwegians)
    Diarmuid Codyre(OuthalfGalwegians)
    Dylan Prendergast(Outhalf/Westport)
    Cian Treacy(Outhalf/Ballinasloe)

    Shane Jennings(Outside Back/Ballinasloe)
    Saul O'Carroll(Outside Back/Buccaneers)
    Mark Balaski(Outside Back/Castlebar)
    Corey Reid(Outside Back/Buccaneers)
    Conor O'Shaughnessy(Outside Back/Galwegians)
    Hugh Lane(Outside Back/Galwegians)
    Michael O'Reilly(Outside Back/Corinthians)

    Would expect to see Niall Murray , Cian huxford and Callum torpey in connachts academy this year along with a few rejects from Leinster/Munster


  • #1606
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    irishfan9 wrote: »
    not sure theres a need to point that out.. connacht rely on leinster for academy players so naturally players not wanted by leinster will be evaluated by connacht
    They dont "rely" upon them. Yes there often is players added who may have been schooled in Leinster but rely upon players like that. No they dont.


  • #1607
    irishfan9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭irishfan9


    Interesting that Max Kearney gets a run out for Leinster A this weekend, with Ronan Foley on the bench. Foley has had a strong season to date.

    Silvester also on the bench which isn't too surprising given players away with 7's.

    Kelleher and Aungier ahead of older academy players in McNulty and Heffernan not surprising either.


  • #1608
    MDunne14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 413 ✭✭MDunne14


    irishfan9 wrote: »
    Interesting that Max Kearney gets a run out for Leinster A this weekend, with Ronan Foley on the bench. Foley has had a strong season to date.

    Silvester also on the bench which isn't too surprising given players away with 7's.

    Kelleher and Aungier ahead of older academy players in McNulty and Heffernan not surprising either.

    Surprised both haven’t been released early especially mcnulty


  • #1609
    irishfan9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭irishfan9


    MDunne14 wrote: »
    Surprised both haven’t been released early especially mcnulty

    yeah it's an odd one.. needed the bodies around training probably


  • #1610
    Tarf1234
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭Tarf1234


    MDunne14 wrote: »
    Surprised both haven’t been released early especially mcnulty
    McNulty held I'd imagine due to the lack of hookers. How Heffernan is still around is beyond me...


  • #1611
    Stainalert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭Stainalert


    irishfan9 wrote: »
    Interesting that Max Kearney gets a run out for Leinster A this weekend, with Ronan Foley on the bench. Foley has had a strong season to date.

    Silvester also on the bench which isn't too surprising given players away with 7's.

    Kelleher and Aungier ahead of older academy players in McNulty and Heffernan not surprising either.
    Disappointing selection for any other flankers. Kearney hasn't played any senior rugby at all. I think Leinster A is a misnomer


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  • #1612
    Tarf1234
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭Tarf1234


    Stainalert wrote: »
    Disappointing selection for any other flankers. Kearney hasn't played any senior rugby at all. I think Leinster A is a misnomer
    Trinity hasn't really worked for Max. Due to the general weakness of their pack this year they've picked a bigger backrow. Ironically if Max had stayed in Tarf he prob would have a good few games in AIL now.


  • #1613
    irishfan9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭irishfan9


    Stainalert wrote: »
    Disappointing selection for any other flankers. Kearney hasn't played any senior rugby at all. I think Leinster A is a misnomer

    what flankers exactly?

    Dunne been releases by sub academy.
    Connors with 7's

    then they almost always look at u20's in sub academy over club players..


  • #1614
    irishfan9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭irishfan9


    Tarf1234 wrote: »
    Trinity hasn't really worked for Max. Due to the general weakness of their pack this year they've picked a bigger backrow. Ironically if Max had stayed in Tarf he prob would have a good few games in AIL now.

    doesnt seem to have prevented him with ireland u20 and leinster academy..


  • #1615
    Tarf1234
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭Tarf1234


    irishfan9 wrote: »
    doesnt seem to have prevented him with ireland u20 and leinster academy..
    Nor should it in my view. Quality player and his body of work over the last number of years should not be wiped because Trinity need more bulk this year.


  • #1616
    irishfan9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭irishfan9


    Tarf1234 wrote: »
    Nor should it in my view. Quality player and his body of work over the last number of years should not be wiped because Trinity need more bulk this year.

    yep.. dunno if he will make leinster academy but has a chance..


  • #1617
    Tarf1234
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭Tarf1234


    irishfan9 wrote: »
    yep.. dunno if he will make leinster academy but has a chance..
    I'd love to see him make it personally. Think he offers something really different too what is in there or around.


  • #1618
    irishfan9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭irishfan9


    Tarf1234 wrote: »
    I'd love to see him make it personally. Think he offers something really different too what is in there or around.

    care to expand?


  • #1619
    Ayewserious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 458 ✭✭Ayewserious


    irishfan9 wrote: »
    what flankers exactly?

    Dunne been releases by sub academy.
    Connors with 7's

    then they almost always look at u20's in sub academy over club players..
    Who else got released by the sub academy?


  • #1620
    irishfan9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭irishfan9


    Ayewserious wrote: »
    Who else got released by the sub academy?

    dont know.. posters have said dunne, roche, duggan and others have..

    safe to say Foley, Kearney, Silvester have not.


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  • #1621
    RugbyUA
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7 ✭RugbyUA


    irishfan9 wrote: »
    dont know.. posters have said dunne, roche, duggan and others have..

    safe to say Foley, Kearney, Silvester have not.

    Would think it's safe to say that's rubbish about Duggan. He is a physical specimen plus he featured heavily in the JWC last year. He'll surely be in pole position to start at loosehead this year too with a good shot at academy. No way would he be released from sub academy


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