Breaking: At least 1 man dead after stabbing rampage in Dundalk

weldoninhio wrote: »

The goat comment was in reply to a blatant troll. You know this, but are still using it to deflect. Nice try.

Fair enough. Glad that was the only one you disputed.

Autochange wrote: »

Is it possible that after Brexit comes in we will see immigrants choose Ireland instead of the UK as the soft western country of choice? Sure the paddys have emigrated around the world for years. They won't stand in the way of others who want to come here.

This one way unchecked immigration is turning parts of some European countries into ghettos. Take Malmö, Molenbeek and Sevran for example. These are known as hotbeds for jihadis.

Marseille, Bradford, Birmingham already are close to 25 % muslim.

I doubt Ireland will have a problem once the UK leaves the EU as the land border will be closed, however I am affraid of what will happen before Brexit. I suspect that a lot of immigrants already in the UK will know that their stay will be short lived and Ireland may be a better option than than France or mainland Europe. Simple to hop on the ferry and remain in the EU. Ireland has to be ready for it.

As for ghettos within mainland Europes cities....these were often there before this immigration wave and most date back to immigrants being brought in to rebuild Germany etc. after WW2 or to work in the coal mines thereafter. At the time these people were seen as guest workers and as a result were never intergrated.

What is happening/has happened is that a lot of young men (2nd-3rd generation) living in these areas have allowed themselves be radicalised. This I assume is a result of these young men and women being on the edge of society, normally coming from low income, low perspective families. When a group comes along and shows an interest and creates a community for them they are easily lead.

John Mooney has an article in yeaterdays ST. Apparently this guy spent 2/3 years traveling between various EU countries, sought residence in Britain a year ago, travelled to NI last autumn and lived there for a few months before coming to the attention of immigration services. And that he has contracts across the Middle East and North Africa.

Also says he was stopped by an Garda on patrol on Monday who quiried his immigration status. Article states he was taken to Immigration Services and was offered temporary accommodation in a direct provision centre.

As per previous poster, if this person was on the Avenue Road this morning I dread to think how many victims there might have been. (3 primary schools in very close proximaty to the road, and one of the main thoroughfares for secondary school students)

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's not about Muslims and it never was, it's about people from the geographic region encompassing North Africa and the Middle East, which have a very recent history of cultural hostility towards what we in the West consider basic, non-negotiable human rights in various ways. A non-Muslim from Saudi Arabia is just as likely to have a backwards view of womens' place in society as a Muslim from Saudi Arabia - it's not about religion or race, it's about cultural immersion. Somebody who converted to Islam while living in Ireland is not culturally connected to ultraconservative middle eastern culture, so they're unlikely to adopt such views.

I'd argue that historic precedent has actually shown us that this form of multiculturalism simple never works out well. The problems you refer to only arose because people with vastly conflicting cultures were forced to share the same geographic regions without agreeing on a mutually acceptable set of values by which to live. This is what leads to the creation of ghettoes etc. This is where the concept of cultural ethnicities deserving their own homeland in which they can live according to their own cultures - for example, the two state solution of Israel and Palestine - came about. Because it was recognised that throwing people of utterly incompatible cultures into one small geographic region together only ever leads to conflict. History has taught us this repeatedly.

Again, it's not about religion. Seeking out Muslims to do this would be pointless, since there are many Muslims who do not adopt ultraconservative cultural ideologies imported from repressed nations elsewhere. A far better analogy would be if you meet a teenage girl or young woman whose family doesn't let her out of the house without a male chaperone. Telling her to her face that you find this repulsive is obviously pointless, but how about phoning the Gardai or social services to report a suspected case of psychological / emotional abuse? If it was a case of somebody's partner treating them this way, under the new domestic violence laws introduced very recently this would be a clear cut case of emotional abuse, no question whatsoever. Why should it be different when it comes to familial relationships as opposed to sexual ones?

A lot of people thanked this post, but I think your basic premise that it has nothing to do with islam is wrong.

For a start good luck finding many non muslims in Saudi that are actually Saudis.
Even muslims like the Palestinians that spent decades there and in other states like Kuwait don't get citizenship.

And Saudi's society is based around the most regressive form of islam.

You mention it is a North African/Middle Eastern regional thing, but you fail to mention that by far the primary ideology in that area is islam.

And islam has misogyny built into it front and centre.
It also has a hatred for secularism and even democracy built into it.

The vast majority of those states are built around islam.
People have often argued that the rulers of these states have used islam to control the masses and but for their despotic rulers the people would be more open, embracing secular democracy.
Well Egypt blew that little theory out of the water when they elected the muslim brotherhood as government.
Iraq descended into tribal and religious sectarian fighting once Saddam was gone.
Likewise in Libya which saw a resorting to tribal warfare once Gaddafi was off the scene.

And yes other societies dominated by other religions (e.g India and Hinduism) can be rife with inbuilt discrimination, misogynistic and often barbaric practices such as honor killings.
But they appear to adapt way better to life in Western secular societies than people who hail from muslim dominated societies.

Why is that ?

And yes we know that muslims from European countries such as Bosnia were way more secular and relaxed in their attitudes.
The question is how much had that to do with living for 50 odd years under Marshall Tito and forced integration.
There has been a rise in fundamentalist attitudes in Bosnia in recent years, likewise with Kosovo.
Fundamentalism is on the rise, a lot of the fault is down to fact Western World tolerate the Wahhabist doctrine being pedaled by the oil rich gulf states.
Hell the strides made by people like Ataturk are being rolled back.

I mentioned before that in my experience with say Pakistanis, it was very surprising the underlying attitudes of guys that were very well educated when it came to women, particularly their wives.
You suddenly found the guy that joked about and frowned upon his colleague writing fundamentalist thoughts on internet usergroups considered his wife a second class citizen that was meant to be seen and not heard while she pushed the buggy behind us.

Islam badly needs a reformation and a lot of states dominated by that ideology needs to start coming into the 20th century never mind the 21st century.

Cason Loud Broomstick wrote: »

Only if every single truck can be X-ray'd. If there's a perceived reward, there's a perceived risk to seek such reward.



Not sure what level of checks take place at Victoria bus station, quick flash of a ticket or basic ID card probably.

As I said the French seem to have everything in place, I have had my camper x-rayed a few times, had dogs put in and had the pleasure of 3 French police officers checking the train carriage on my last work trip to London. Ask yourself how many make it over the channel every month and how many are in the camp in Calais ;)

Captain Obvious wrote: »

What makes you think Brexit will change anything? England can already do all that, they just don't.

England have promised the EU that they would take X amount of refugees as have all other EU countries. Once they leave the EU there will be no obligation for them to take anyone. Somehow I doubt they will keep taking in problems....more likely will be a system similar to Austrailia or Canada where education and financial means will be important to enter.

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

England have promised the EU that they would take X amount of refugees as have all other EU countries. Once they leave the EU there will be no obligation for them to take anyone. Somehow I doubt they will keep taking in problems....more likely will be a system similar to Austrailia or Canada where education and financial means will be important to enter.

There's no legal obligation on them now to take any.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and how will any of that stop the illegals?

It will not stop them 100% but it will drastically reduce them. At the minute there is no major checks when entering the UK...once they are out you can be sure that they will check every nook and cranny and will be sending them asap back to France, Belgium or Holland to ensure they are not burdened with the cost.

end of the road wrote: »

that would mean britain having to pay for the staff to enforce the border. that's hardly likely now is it?

You can be sure they will monitor all incoming routers from mainland Europe very closely. How the border to Ireland will be monitored is the open question, I suspect they will do this on mainland UK in the ferry terminals and airports. Dont think they want a hard border with the republic and the EU are starting to understand it... how they will monitor France, Belgium or Holland,,. All 3 countries are already planning for modernisation to their ferry terminals to allow for customs and border police.

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

It will not stop them 100% but it will drastically reduce them. At the minute there is no major checks when entering the UK...once they are out you can be sure that they will check every nook and cranny and will be sending them asap back to France, Belgium or Holland to ensure they are not burdened with the cost.

they already do that before the trucks board the ferry. they have british border control officers based in europe.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they already do that before the trucks board the ferry. they have british border control officers based in europe.

Yes and you are checked by one or the other or they work half heartedly together.....very very seldom by both sides seperately. Thats the first change which should improve things. Added to that the problem is very often not people who have entered the UK illegally....the majority have some sort of right to be there.

As was the case with the clown that resulted in this thread being open, he was refused refuge, which means the UK accepted he was in the country whilst the decision was being made. We dont know how he entered...

Added to that please tell me how many of the known terrorists who have committed attacks within the EU were illegal?? Most of them held EU passports or were asylum seekers who were registered and getting support.

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

Yes and you are checked by one or the other or they work half heartedly together.....very very seldom by both sides seperately. Thats the first change which should improve things. Added to that the problem is very often not people who have entered the UK illegally....the majority have some sort of right to be there.

As was the case with the clown that resulted in this thread being open, he was refused refuge, which means the UK accepted he was in the country whilst the decision was being made. We dont know how he entered...

Added to that please tell me how many of the known terrorists who have committed attacks within the EU were illegal?? Most of them held EU passports or were asylum seekers who were registered and getting support.

so if the problem is not illegals what difference will a hard border make? You need to make your mind up as to what you think the problem is.