16t or 800 kg MS, discuss

Panch18 · 07-01-2018 08:15PM

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Irexit.
Ireland will sorely miss their greatest ally when the UK leaves. The UK have been very instrumental in Ireland keeping its ‘special’ tax (haven) status.
If there’s any friction between France and Ireland in the coming years, it will be on taxation, not on competition for shelf space in UK supermarkets. Imho.

Once there is soil available to grow crops any system can be adapted. A cow, a sow, and the acre under plough, works from one acre plus...

Irrigation is run on electricity...unless like me, you’re stealing water from rivers.

Are you seriously trying to have a go at Irish farmers about the envioronment whilst your irrigation network bleeds another aquafier or river dry??

Say my name · 07-01-2018 11:26PM

jaymla627 wrote: »

Holland is the test subject that we should be looking at, the EU pulled the rug out from under their dairy industry literally overnight, a fortune was spent by Dutch farmers in anticipation of quotas going on the assumption they could increases cow numbers at their will once they adhered to the current regulations at the time......
The grass mafia can blow about grazed grass and its green image till the cows come home the reality is further down the line your going to need 9000 litre/650kgs ms plus cows to make a living simply because nitrates/phosphorus limits our whatever other instrument Brussels thinks up simply won't allow high stocking rates, so production per cow will be vital

MOD SNIP
But anyway how do you feed this wonder cow and what do you do with the slurry?

If you're not producing feed on farm you're buying in and subsidizing that cow from numerous farms and it'll mean the same that slurry will also have to be spread on numerous farms not just your own farm.
Great solution.

mahoney_j · 07-01-2018 11:31PM

Say my name wrote: »

But anyway how do you feed this wonder cow and what do you do with the slurry?

If you're not producing feed on farm you're buying in and subsidizing that cow from numerous farms and it'll mean the same that slurry will also have to be spread on numerous farms not just your own farm.
Great solution.

Jay makes a valid point ,in your scenario dairy farmer and tillage/beef farmer etc come to agreement for maize /beet silage for slurry/fym deal

wrangler · 07-01-2018 11:35PM

Birdnuts wrote: »

There was something in the Farming Indo just before the holidays about teagasc looking to hire 20 water quality experts to help sort the problems you outline above. Late in the day I know but maybe finally the penny is starting to drop??

They did some pilot areas over ten years ago, they must've got some bad news in their results or we'd have heard more about it if the farmers were exonerated

Say my name · 07-01-2018 11:37PM

mahoney_j wrote: »

Jay makes a valid point ,in your scenario dairy farmer and tillage/beef farmer etc come to agreement for maize /beet silage for slurry/fym deal

But in the majority of cases these high output cows are fed on imported feed from the U.S. or Europe.
That's not very environmentally friendly is it.
How do you ship the slurry back to the U.S.?

At least the grass fed cow is as simple as.
Grow grass, eat grass, sh1t dung on paddock and use minimal concentrates.

jaymla627 · 07-01-2018 11:46PM

Say my name wrote: »

.
But anyway how do you feed this wonder cow and what do you do with the slurry?

If you're not producing feed on farm you're buying in and subsidizing that cow from numerous farms and it'll mean the same that slurry will also have to be spread on numerous farms not just your own farm.
Great solution.

Team up with your local tillage farmer he draws in feed you supply him with slurry it's pretty simple, wouldn't call 650kgs ms cow anything extradionary, with the right management and genetics it's easily achievable.....
To be fair Teagasc and the Irish print media have conditioned Irish dairy farmer that no other way exists bar the grass-rich way and stocking the milking platform to the hilt, but when the boys in Brussels finally put the foot down re derogation like the Dutch increasing production per cow is the only feasible way of surviving

mahoney_j · 07-01-2018 11:48PM

Say my name wrote: »

But in the majority of cases these high output cows are fed on imported feed from the U.S. or Europe.
That's not very environmentally friendly is it.
How do you ship the slurry back to the U.S.?

At least the grass fed cow is as simple as.
Grow grass, eat grass, sh1t dung on paddock and use minimal concentrates.

Maby do but it’s a limited model ,what if dero pulled ,a lot of low input highly stocked farms will be in trouble.environmental regulations are going to get stiffer too

davidk1394 · 08-01-2018 12:31AM

Birdnuts wrote: »

There was something in the Farming Indo just before the holidays about teagasc looking to hire 20 water quality experts to help sort the problems you outline above. Late in the day I know but maybe finally the penny is starting to drop??

Unfortunately Ireland's "green image" isn't as green as we all throught. N & P are the two greatest factors in algae blooms. Their doing trials around the country under catchment programmes thr site are located in dairy areas, tillage areas and less intensive areas. For Ireland to become greener unfortunately we have to bring in stricter implementation on slurry spreading, fertilizer usage and spray usages on farms.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 08-01-2018 12:32AM

jaymla627 wrote: »

Team up with your local tillage farmer he draws in feed you supply him with slurry it's pretty simple, wouldn't call 650kgs ms cow anything extradionary, with the right management and genetics it's easily achievable.....
To be fair Teagasc and the Irish print media have conditioned Irish dairy farmer that no other way exists bar the grass-rich way and stocking the milking platform to the hilt, but when the boys in Brussels finally put the foot down re derogation like the Dutch increasing production per cow is the only feasible way of surviving

That importing feed and exporting slurry will only work when dairy farms are situated in or near tillage areas. The majority of dairy farms aren't.

Waffletraktor · 08-01-2018 12:41AM

Panch18 wrote: »

Are you seriously trying to have a go at Irish farmers about the envioronment whilst your irrigation network bleeds another aquafier or river dry??

Didn't dawg not go out out of his way to emphasise having to build irrigation ponds to hold winter/storm run off from rivers as water police are especially around in Summer monitoring what goes leaking out of yard and where it ends up.
Irish dairying, 'Worlds greenest most efficient producers of commodity milk that's not really needed' a nice Bio for the twitteraity.

Waffletraktor · 08-01-2018 12:45AM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

The whole biodiversity debate I find kind of peculiar. We are being preached to about diverse habitats which I have no objection to and readily support. But having had occasion to visit the house of a prominent preacher in the recent past and looking at the foreign plants and manicured lawns and contrasting that to their ideal of, basically, weed strewn pastures, I don't take an ounce of notice to those talking heads anymore.

I'd take a bet with you by the end of the next decade, to get a deregation you'll have to put aside an amount of land to be managed for bio-diversity or 'efa's' as they're called.

alps · 08-01-2018 02:25AM

jaymla627 wrote: »

Holland is the test subject that we should be looking at, the EU pulled the rug out from under their dairy industry literally overnight, a fortune was spent by Dutch farmers in anticipation of quotas going on the assumption they could increases cow numbers at their will once they adhered to the current regulations at the time......
The grass mafia can blow about grazed grass and its green image till the cows come home the reality is further down the line your going to need 9000 litre/650kgs ms plus cows to make a living simply because nitrates/phosphorus limits our whatever other instrument Brussels thinks up simply won't allow high stocking rates, so production per cow will be vital

The Dutch scenario was a play by farmers for what they felt could be increased phosphorus allowances, and they piled on cows in the lead up to this negotiation.

It did not pay off overall, but when the country was forced to reduce the numbers again, the reduction was imposed equally across all farmers, meaning those that caused the issue actually won out in the end...

This was an intentional play by Dutch farmers to achieve increased phosphorus limits for their farms, that they felt they could claim as an asset and trade on retirement.

It was not a loss of derogation, which is the story we are being spun and we seem to fall for it..

blue5000 · 08-01-2018 10:08AM

Pulling these posts from dairy chit chat as it probably deserves it's own thread.

Some parishes in Cork, Tipp and Waterford are already pretty close to Dutch stocking levels, NZ are aware they have a density problem too in some intensive dairy areas. You don't have to be a dairy farmer to chip in here,

blue

Buford T. Justice XIX · 08-01-2018 02:06PM

Waffletraktor wrote: »

I'd take a bet with you by the end of the next decade, to get a deregation you'll have to put aside an amount of land to be managed for bio-diversity or 'efa's' as they're called.

Not a hope. Tbh, it wouldn't surprise me if they forced derogation farmers to reseed their heads with ryegrass to qualify for a derogation.

mahoney_j · 08-01-2018 02:23PM

Is there really a need for this thread ??

Waffletraktor · 08-01-2018 03:02PM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Not a hope. Tbh, it wouldn't surprise me if they forced derogation farmers to reseed their heads with ryegrass to qualify for a derogation.

Why not your thrashing the environement, again... There's talk of lowering protein content of rations to control the amount of urea in livestock faecies in NI. Shifting away from using non protected artificial 'N' to reduce loses.

yosemitesam1 · 08-01-2018 04:27PM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Not a hope. Tbh, it wouldn't surprise me if they forced derogation farmers to reseed their heads with ryegrass to qualify for a derogation.

Don't see why it mightn't be included as part of greening that you might need a certain plant diversity
Say min 1 legume, 2 herbs, 3 or 4 grasses. Would have no negative effect on production for majority of dairy farms and a positive effect on a lot of them.
Some of the other species would make up for Clover's slower spring growth would be balanced off a bit by the other's and increased drought tolerance...

MF290 · 08-01-2018 04:28PM

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Take another read of this, then take a look at the “Slurry opening date” thread...

What publication is that out of?

alps · 08-01-2018 05:02PM

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Why not your thrashing the environement, again... There's talk of lowering protein content of rations to control the amount of urea in livestock faecies in NI. Shifting away from using non protected artificial 'N' to reduce losses.

The questionnaire attached to.the board bia audit, now asks if soya is included in the rations....auditor just gone from here and I forgot to ask what the purpose of the question was...
Any connection with the above, or looking at the feasibility at GMO free? It's being asked for.some reason..

MF290 · 08-01-2018 05:16PM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/05/china-plant-forest-size-ireland-bid-become-world-leader-conservation/

This should off set any supposed increase in pollution from Ireland infant formula production

blue5000 · 08-01-2018 06:53PM

alps wrote: »

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Why not your thrashing the environement, again... There's talk of lowering protein content of rations to control the amount of urea in livestock faecies in NI. Shifting away from using non protected artificial 'N' to reduce losses.

The questionnaire attached to.the board bia audit, now asks if soya is included in the rations....auditor just gone from here and I forgot to ask what the purpose of the question was...
Any connection with the above, or looking at the feasibility at GMO free? It's being asked for.some reason..

I reckon supermarkets are starting to look for non GMO food, did they ask about maize as well?

Gawddawggonnit · 08-01-2018 09:06PM

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Absolutely. I’ve written here before about trials on rainfall (irrigation in my case) washing away N.

Any fields that I have after irrigated crops show, to the line, where the water fell on land. One headland, the one where the irrigation reels are stationed, are noticeably greener as less/no irrigation was applied. Remember I don’t even use artificial fert to grow maize...therefore the more rainfall, the more Nitrates that are washed into ground water...it does make sense in fairness.

I’ll try and get some pics and post them.

Photo taken earlier. Poor light...

Gawddawggonnit · 08-01-2018 09:24PM

My, my, but people take offense at my futile attempt at an open and honest discussion.

I’m wasn’t pontificating from a higher piece of moral ground.

I’m a soon to be convicted polluter.

Last August I accidentally polluted a stagnant pool of a dried up river. There was 90 cubic meters of water in the pool. The low level pollution didn’t damage any fauna or flora.
I pumped the pool onto maize and hired an excavator to clean out any residues that remained.
I’ve spent just under €25k in doing some works so that anything like that can’t happen again.
The local radio stations all visited us and took interviews. Likewise county television station.

I’ve the court date next week. I’ll post the result.

To clarify...
Any water that I use for irrigation is from rainwater runoff...”rainwater harvesting” I think is the term.

Gawddawggonnit · 08-01-2018 09:43PM

mahoney_j wrote: »

Is there really a need for this thread ??

Nailed it Mahoney!

The title of this thread couldn’t be further away from what was being discussed. I think the term is “False Flag”?

Why bother to make a clumsy effort to brush it under the carpet of inter web waffle?

I strongly suggest that we collectively dig a virtual grave and consign this silly thread to the ether forever.
We could even get comical ali to give a graveside oration. Nobody will ever look under 6’ of BS.

I wonder will these ‘issues’ that I was trying to discuss be a topic at the positive dairy farmers conference...

freedominacup · 08-01-2018 09:50PM

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

My, my, but people take offense at my futile attempt at an open and honest discussion.

I’m wasn’t pontificating from a higher piece of moral ground.

I’m a soon to be convicted polluter.

Last August I accidentally polluted a stagnant pool of a dried up river. There was 90 cubic meters of water in the pool. The low level pollution didn’t damage any fauna or flora.
I pumped the pool onto maize and hired an excavator to clean out any residues that remained.
I’ve spent just under €25k in doing some works so that anything like that can’t happen again.
The local radio stations all visited us and took interviews. Likewise county television station.

I’ve the court date next week. I’ll post the result.

To clarify...
Any water that I use for irrigation is from rainwater runoff...”rainwater harvesting” I think is the term.

Apart from the time the inlet hose on that 6" diesel pump fell into the river last summer. To paraphrase your good self. Honestly starting to question response to fert levels over the past couple of seasons. Don't want to start ploughing again but some break crops are going to become part of the mix in the next few years. Oul boy raised a question re compaction this evening. We're usually fairly ocd about controlling this but he might have a point.

jaymla627 · 08-01-2018 10:06PM

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Nailed it Mahoney!

The title of this thread couldn’t be further away from what was being discussed. I think the term is “False Flag”?

Why bother to make a clumsy effort to brush it under the carpet of inter web waffle?

I strongly suggest that we collectively dig a virtual grave and consign this silly thread to the ether forever.
We could even get comical ali to give a graveside oration. Nobody will ever look under 6’ of BS.

I wonder will these ‘issues’ that I was trying to discuss be a topic at the positive dairy farmers conference...

The one thing going for us, is the simple in-eptness of local authorities and government to even try and implement what the Eu expects of us, it would take some pretty extreme action on the Eu's part to change this

Base price · 08-01-2018 10:19PM

jaymla627 wrote: »

The one thing going for us, is the simple in-eptness of local authorities and government to even try and implement what the Eu expects of us, it would take some pretty extreme action on the Eu's part to change this

Why worry about the ineptness of your local authority when your neighbours will be monitoring water quality in the very near future. IMO this is the future for us all whether we like it or not.
https://www.catchments.ie/public-consultation-draft-river-basin-management-plans-ireland-2018-2021/
https://www.catchments.ie/development-rivers-trusts-ireland/

Gawddawggonnit · 08-01-2018 10:45PM

jaymla627 wrote: »

The one thing going for us, is the simple in-eptness of local authorities and government to even try and implement what the Eu expects of us, it would take some pretty extreme action on the Eu's part to change this

I admire your honesty Jay.

There’s an old saying “You shouldn’t sh!t on your own doorstep”...

Gawddawggonnit · 08-01-2018 10:48PM

Mods.

I strongly suggest that you bury this thread.

Dairy chit chat 2 & 3 are being left idle...

mf240 · 08-01-2018 10:57PM

Don't criticize farmers with your mouth full.

16t or 800 kg MS, discuss

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