16t or 800 kg MS, discuss

Gawddawggonnit

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

.

That article should generate a very good debate, sadly it will be shouted down as ‘fake news’...
..

Farmer's producing milk that's not wanted. Yet today's price is 35c.
So fake news correct.
Greenwashing a term just used to get up people's backs. Poor journalism.
Reports of nitrogen and phosphorus in water and specifically attributing it farmers when the EPA in the report blamed council and waste facilities. Again fake news and poor journalism.
Blaming agriculture for the increase in emissions when since 1990 it's decreased. Fake news and also poor journalism.

Really! What else would you call such a crap collection of words? The writer must also believe this since they never bothered to put their name to it.:rolleyes:[/quote]




I rest my case...

yosemitesam1

Say my name wrote: »

Farmer's producing milk that's not wanted. Yet today's price is 35c.
So fake news correct.
Greenwashing a term just used to get up people's backs. Poor journalism.
Reports of nitrogen and phosphorus in water and specifically attributing it farmers when the EPA in the report blamed council and waste facilities. Again fake news and poor journalism.
Blaming agriculture for the increase in emissions when since 1990 it's decreased. Fake news and also poor journalism.

Really! What else would you call such a crap collection of words? The writer must also believe this since they never bothered to put their name to it.:rolleyes:

Where has the reduction in emissions come from in that period, much more likely to be from the large decline in tillage and sheep and a bit from beef sectors. The increase in dairy is hardly the cause of the small decrease since 1990 but is likely the cause for increases in more recent years. At the same time the government/teagasc are encouraging more dairy and can't say enough how clean and green we are.

Over half the artificial n applied is leached from intensive grass. Where does that go?


Then look at the points of declines in biodiversity etc, why is it birds, bats, bees, butterflys, grasshoppers and beetles are having a hard time? It's hardly due to intensification and removal of the majority of their food sources?

Buford T. Justice XIX

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Where has the reduction in emissions come from in that period, much more likely to be from the large decline in tillage and sheep and a bit from beef sectors. The increase in dairy is hardly the cause of the small decrease since 1990 but is likely the cause for increases in more recent years. At the same time the government/teagasc are encouraging more dairy and can't say enough how clean and green we are.

Over half the artificial n applied is leached from intensive grass. Where does that go?


Then look at the points of declines in biodiversity etc, why is it birds, bats, bees, butterflys, grasshoppers and beetles are having a hard time? It's hardly due to intensification and removal of the majority of their food sources?

You're forgetting the decline in N usage from 10 bags of can/acre down to 4 bags/acre these days. And reports from research is looking like a minimal loss of output from going to 3 bags/acre of N but with a few caveats in that.

The whole biodiversity debate I find kind of peculiar. We are being preached to about diverse habitats which I have no objection to and readily support. But having had occasion to visit the house of a prominent preacher in the recent past and looking at the foreign plants and manicured lawns and contrasting that to their ideal of, basically, weed strewn pastures, I don't take an ounce of notice to those talking heads anymore.

Any walk into suburbia will show much the same, close cropped lawns, concrete drives, low maintenance hedging with little or no flowers or fruits. But, yeah, farmers are the main cause of loss of diversity.

K.G.

With most fertilizer prices running at what they are i dont throw it out if i think it s going to be washed away.maybe i m in the minortity

yosemitesam1

K.G. wrote: »

With most fertilizer prices running at what they are i dont throw it out if i think it s going to be washed away.maybe i m in the minortity

630kg of milk protein is equal to 100kg of n, where does the rest go?

Gawddawggonnit

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

You're forgetting the decline in N usage from 10 bags of can/acre down to 4 bags/acre these days. And reports from research is looking like a minimal loss of output from going to 3 bags/acre of N but with a few caveats in that.

The whole biodiversity debate I find kind of peculiar. We are being preached to about diverse habitats which I have no objection to and readily support. But having had occasion to visit the house of a prominent preacher in the recent past and looking at the foreign plants and manicured lawns and contrasting that to their ideal of, basically, weed strewn pastures, I don't take an ounce of notice to those talking heads anymore.

Any walk into suburbia will show much the same, close cropped lawns, concrete drives, low maintenance hedging with little or no flowers or fruits. But, yeah, farmers are the main cause of loss of diversity.

Are you talking about 500kg bags Chief?

Was talking to the Boss today and asked him what fert regime for wwheat. For good wheat 9 bags/acre of 27-2.5-5 and poor wheat gets 10 bags...

What dairy farmer grows grass all year on 4bags, when the guts of 2 are spread in January?? OR...are you talking an average across the country?



[....those huge suburban farms are going to have to be reigned in before the country has no wildlife left...:)]


An free and open debate would be interesting.....

K.G.

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

You're forgetting the decline in N usage from 10 bags of can/acre down to 4 bags/acre these days. And reports from research is looking like a minimal loss of output from going to 3 bags/acre of N but with a few caveats in that.

The whole biodiversity debate I find kind of peculiar. We are being preached to about diverse habitats which I have no objection to and readily support. But having had occasion to visit the house of a prominent preacher in the recent past and looking at the foreign plants and manicured lawns and contrasting that to their ideal of, basically, weed strewn pastures, I don't take an ounce of notice to those talking heads anymore.

Any walk into suburbia will show much the same, close cropped lawns, concrete drives, low maintenance hedging with little or no flowers or fruits. But, yeah, farmers are the main cause of loss of diversity.

Are you talking about 500kg bags Chief?

Was talking to the Boss today and asked him what fert regime for wwheat. For good wheat 9 bags/acre of 27-2.5-5 and poor wheat gets 10 bags...

What dairy farmer grows grass all year on 4bags, when the guts of 2 are spread in January?? OR...are you talking an average across the country?



[....those huge suburban farms are going to have to be reigned in before the country has no wildlife left...:)]


An free and open debate would be interesting.....

Wouldnt a quota and restrictions on transport both by road and air have alot more potenial to reduce emissions across the board.anybody know what each person emits in transport every year.throw in some quota on esb usage and we d be laughing.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Are you talking about 500kg bags Chief?

Was talking to the Boss today and asked him what fert regime for wwheat. For good wheat 9 bags/acre of 27-2.5-5 and poor wheat gets 10 bags...

What dairy farmer grows grass all year on 4bags, when the guts of 2 are spread in January?? OR...are you talking an average across the country?



[....those huge suburban farms are going to have to be reigned in before the country has no wildlife left...:)]


An free and open debate would be interesting.....

Nope, roughly 4 25kg bags/acre of CAN. That's what I'm allowed at just over the 170 kgs stocking rate and that's all I spread.

In my roughly 30 years farming here, I have dug out 16 foot of hedging to make I opening and planted multiple times that.

Tbh, I mostly ignore those preaching about biodiversity at this stage, Dawg, for the reasons I gave above. Global warming as well. Those shouting loudest about it seem to want others to do the heavy lifting while doing SFA about it themselves in their own patch where they could what they are telling farmers to do. But don't:rolleyes:

Their solution appears to be to fly in large groups to conferences where they can get all hot and bothered about what someone else is doing while ignoring what they have within their own grasp to do.

And an apology to yosemitesam as well, my previous post was in no way aimed at him. He IS walking the walk.

Mooooo

What way Is it applied dawg? Don't blanket spread here, bar in Spring in which 35 units or so goes out if weather is right generally spread after the cows then once a week, in what was grazed that week, river passing our place is tested regularly and no issues. Two wells in middle of farm next to house no issues. In derogation here around 230kgs/ha on the comp anyway

Gawddawggonnit

Mooooo wrote: »

What way Is it applied dawg? Don't blanket spread here, bar in Spring in which 35 units or so goes out if weather is right generally spread after the cows then once a week, in what was grazed that week, river passing our place is tested regularly and no issues. Two wells in middle of farm next to house no issues. In derogation here around 230kgs/ha on the comp anyway

Usually 3 splits, sometimes 4 or five.

Gawddawggonnit

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Nope, roughly 4 25kg bags/acre of CAN. That's what I'm allowed at just over the 170 kgs stocking rate and that's all I spread.

In my roughly 30 years farming here, I have dug out 16 foot of hedging to make I opening and planted multiple times that.

Tbh, I mostly ignore those preaching about biodiversity at this stage, Dawg, for the reasons I gave above. Global warming as well. Those shouting loudest about it seem to want others to do the heavy lifting while doing SFA about it themselves in their own patch where they could what they are telling farmers to do. But don't:rolleyes:

Their solution appears to be to fly in large groups to conferences where they can get all hot and bothered about what someone else is doing while ignoring what they have within their own grasp to do.

And an apology to yosemitesam as well, my previous post was in no way aimed at him. He IS walking the walk.

You’re not growing 16t+ dm of grass on those units Chief...last time I looked 90-120 unitsN are for first cut....
Anyone that says they can grow 16t dm of monoculture grass on 100uN is a liar.

Spoke to Boss yesterday, as already mentioned, about fert. The Eu are putting pressure on Irish Gov to put pcs numbers on fert, so as to be able to account for exactly how much fert actually reaches the shores of Ireland...nobody knows! Porous border and zero accounting of fert will not be allowed to carry on. The dogs on the street know that any farmer can buy as much fert as they like and get it invoiced as...whatever.
Water quality is going the wrong way. Emissions likewise.
Whether official Ireland, through successive governments, continue to ignore (or even be complicit) in the state of the environment, won’t wash in the 21st century.
Example. The boss told me that there’s a pic of slurry almost overflowing on Thursdays IFJ. Land is saturated and can’t be spread...fair enough. We were allowed spread from the 10th Jan and this is now put back to 1st Feb. Next year this could changed again...if I need to build more storage, I’ve no recourse to Tams for these works.
Water quality is going the right way. Fert usage is in free fall due to législation etc., in France. Yields are still rising..

Eu bureaucrats are mostly French. Those boxtickers WILL wade into Ireland and fix your ‘issues’ if the Irish gov don’t.


Something tells me that it’ll take severe pressure from the Eu for some positive action to be taken. There’s no point in farmers, farm organizations and politicians putting their backs up and shouting about the perfect environment that exists atm. Greenwashing (potty mouth me) only fools people for a while...

Farmers/agriculture are NOT totally to blame in this mess. Gov/local authorities are every bit as culpable.
Farmers can continue with their head in the sand shouting silly soundbites from page x in the IFJ/Agriland etc, or get proactive and actually do something!

I’ve mentioned before how closely watched Ireland is now since dairy expansion has exploded, and this will get more demanding going forward. That is inevitable...



As I’ve said before about N, there is another way...funny nobody has asked.

Mooooo

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

You’re not growing 16t+ dm of grass on those units Chief...last time I looked 90-120 unitsN are for first cut....
Anyone that says they can grow 16t dm of monoculture grass on 100uN is a liar.

Spoke to Boss yesterday, as already mentioned, about fert. The Eu are putting pressure on Irish Gov to put pcs numbers on fert, so as to be able to account for exactly how much fert actually reaches the shores of Ireland...nobody knows! Porous border and zero accounting of fert will not be allowed to carry on. The dogs on the street know that any farmer can buy as much fert as they like and get it invoiced as...whatever.
Water quality is going the wrong way. Emissions likewise.
Whether official Ireland, through successive governments, continue to ignore (or even be complicit) in the state of the environment, won’t wash in the 21st century.
Example. The boss told me that there’s a pic of slurry almost overflowing on Thursdays IFJ. Land is saturated and can’t be spread...fair enough. We were allowed spread from the 10th Jan and this is now put back to 1st Feb. Next year this could changed again...if I need to build more storage, I’ve no recourse to Tams for these works.
Water quality is going the right way. Fert usage is in free fall due to législation etc., in France. Yields are still rising..

Eu bureaucrats are mostly French. Those boxtickers WILL wade into Ireland and fix your ‘issues’ if the Irish gov don’t.


Something tells me that it’ll take severe pressure from the Eu for some positive action to be taken. There’s no point in farmers, farm organizations and politicians putting their backs up and shouting about the perfect environment that exists atm. Greenwashing (potty mouth me) only fools people for a while...

Farmers/agriculture are NOT totally to blame in this mess. Gov/local authorities are every bit as culpable.
Farmers can continue with their head in the sand shouting silly soundbites from page x in the IFJ/Agriland etc, or get proactive and actually do something!

I’ve mentioned before how closely watched Ireland is now since dairy expansion has exploded, and this will get more demanding going forward. That is inevitable...



As I’ve said before about N, there is another way...funny nobody has asked.

And what is the other way?

Gawddawggonnit

Mooooo wrote: »

And what is the other way?

Irexit.

OR


Legumes..

9-10 bags 27-2.5-5 for winter wheat is absolutely necessary, without legumes. With legumes it can be done on 50u/ac, (2bags) without any penalty in yield or quality. Can’t say for grass as I’m not much of a grass man.

Mooooo

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Irexit.

OR


Legumes..

9-10 bags 27-2.5-5 for winter wheat is absolutely necessary, without legumes. With legumes it can be done on 50u/ac, (2bags) without any penalty in yield or quality. Can’t say for grass as I’m not much of a grass man.

Clover trials being carried out in clon but near the coast in dry ground. Had clover here before, now it was in fields cut for silage so the cutting didn't help but it was bare as fook in spring and and docks were a major issue after a year or 2. Normally graze silage fields here once or twice before cutting and again after before winter for a few rounds. I would say having clover here would mean a minimum of another month inside for me in a normal year

yosemitesam1

Mooooo wrote: »

What way Is it applied dawg? Don't blanket spread here, bar in Spring in which 35 units or so goes out if weather is right generally spread after the cows then once a week, in what was grazed that week, river passing our place is tested regularly and no issues. Two wells in middle of farm next to house no issues. In derogation here around 230kgs/ha on the comp anyway

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-41945650

Kowtow posted that a few weeks ago. A buildup of nitrogen is likely happening somewhere, even if it's not showing up directly in rivers

Mooooo

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-41945650

Kowtow posted that a few weeks ago. A buildup of nitrogen is likely happening somewhere, even if it's not showing up directly in rivers

Have they actually found it there, thought I'd they had they would be able to put some figure on it or how they tested the rock?

yosemitesam1

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Irexit.

OR


Legumes..

9-10 bags 27-2.5-5 for winter wheat is absolutely necessary, without legumes. With legumes it can be done on 50u/ac, (2bags) without any penalty in yield or quality. Can’t say for grass as I’m not much of a grass man.

Free living n fixers can also supply similar amounts of n to legumes when there's a good mix of plants about

Say my name

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Free living n fixers can also supply similar amounts of n to legumes when there's a good mix of plants about

Don't forget the rock dusts that can feed the bacteria getting a bit of N into the system. Even if that rockdust is lime. It still has to be broken down.
Don't mention rockdust to the permaculture guys though..

Buford T. Justice XIX

Mooooo wrote: »

Clover trials being carried out in clon but near the coast in dry ground. Had clover here before, now it was in fields cut for silage so the cutting didn't help but it was bare as fook in spring and and docks were a major issue after a year or 2. Normally graze silage fields here once or twice before cutting and again after before winter for a few rounds. I would say having clover here would mean a minimum of another month inside for me in a normal year

I was talking to a Teagasc guy in Moorepark last Summer about clover. He said to target your lowest clover paddocks for closing early for spring grazing as the clover paddocks won't have large covers in spring and will have poorer growth over winter.

Once you get to the second round, the clover paddocks cover will be mostly up to normal paddocks and they will have higher growth after that. And with that growth, you will have to take more bales out and those bales would be used to supplement lower covers in those paddocks in Autumn and Spring.

And he was talking on/off grazings when using those bales so an extra job.

Gawddawggonnit

Dairy is the white haired boy of Irish agriculture now. All other farm enterprises are/will be neglected or even sacrificed for the continued expansion of dairy, even the environment.

The system/metric of ‘averaging’ N usage across the whole country is just ridiculous...but it does allow the expansionist dairy industry to hold its massive N derogation. At what expense?
The environment!

For any farmers that are expanding on the foot of a renewed derogation, it would be wise to have a little glance at what the Eu are thinking...

I’ve a little dissertation to give tomorrow week on Irish agriculture. There will be a gov emissary from Paris there to tell us how severe environmental regulations are good for us and the industry. I’m in no doubt that the unregulated Nz dairy industry will be held up as to what happens in unregulated circumstances...

Here in France we are at the bleeding edge of what national gov/Eu are capable of with regards cleaning up the environment. When the success of this initiative, and of course it will be hugely successful, will be duly noted in Black and white, it will be forced on all Eu members....

Buford T. Justice XIX

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

You’re not growing 16t+ dm of grass on those units Chief...last time I looked 90-120 unitsN are for first cut....
Anyone that says they can grow 16t dm of monoculture grass on 100uN is a liar.

Spoke to Boss yesterday, as already mentioned, about fert. The Eu are putting pressure on Irish Gov to put pcs numbers on fert, so as to be able to account for exactly how much fert actually reaches the shores of Ireland...nobody knows! Porous border and zero accounting of fert will not be allowed to carry on. The dogs on the street know that any farmer can buy as much fert as they like and get it invoiced as...whatever.
Water quality is going the wrong way. Emissions likewise.
Whether official Ireland, through successive governments, continue to ignore (or even be complicit) in the state of the environment, won’t wash in the 21st century.
Example. The boss told me that there’s a pic of slurry almost overflowing on Thursdays IFJ. Land is saturated and can’t be spread...fair enough. We were allowed spread from the 10th Jan and this is now put back to 1st Feb. Next year this could changed again...if I need to build more storage, I’ve no recourse to Tams for these works.
Water quality is going the right way. Fert usage is in free fall due to législation etc., in France. Yields are still rising..

Eu bureaucrats are mostly French. Those boxtickers WILL wade into Ireland and fix your ‘issues’ if the Irish gov don’t.


Something tells me that it’ll take severe pressure from the Eu for some positive action to be taken. There’s no point in farmers, farm organizations and politicians putting their backs up and shouting about the perfect environment that exists atm. Greenwashing (potty mouth me) only fools people for a while...

Farmers/agriculture are NOT totally to blame in this mess. Gov/local authorities are every bit as culpable.
Farmers can continue with their head in the sand shouting silly soundbites from page x in the IFJ/Agriland etc, or get proactive and actually do something!

I’ve mentioned before how closely watched Ireland is now since dairy expansion has exploded, and this will get more demanding going forward. That is inevitable...



As I’ve said before about N, there is another way...funny nobody has asked.

You're not taking slurry N into account as well, Dawg. Some of the best guys around here are going out with slurry in a targeted way to supplement artificial N, maybe 2k gals after grazing in Spring and early Summer.

I doubt there are many left considering slurry to be a waste headache to dumped somewhere out of the way

Gawddawggonnit

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

You're not taking slurry N into account as well, Dawg. Some of the best guys around here are going out with slurry in a targeted way to supplement artificial N, maybe 2k gals after grazing in Spring and early Summer.

I doubt there are many left considering slurry to be a waste headache to dumped somewhere out of the way

Slurry storage is now banned in my county...too risky for the environment. Fym/dung seen as safer.

Take your point about slurry, great fert but does come with a certain amount of risk...especially when some bureaucrats put a date on a calendar for spreading. That sometimes leads to slurry being fired onto saturated land from roads/passageways...

Just to clarify. I was using 250uN/acre to grow an acre of winter wheat ‘till I came here. It’s almost scary how gov can hit you hard with regulation to clean up the environment. Emphasis on the word scary...

Edit. You’re not insinuating that 16+t dm of grass can be grown in a monoculture of grass wth 100u/ac N are you?

mahoney_j

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Slurry storage is now banned in my county...too risky for the environment. Fym/dung seen as safer.

Take your point about slurry, great fert but does come with a certain amount of risk...especially when some bureaucrats put a date on a calendar for spreading. That sometimes leads to slurry being fired onto saturated land from roads/passageways...

Just to clarify. I was using 250uN/acre to grow an acre of winter wheat ‘till I came here. It’s almost scary how gov can hit you hard with regulation to clean up the environment. Emphasis on the word scary...

Edit. You’re not insinuating that 16+t dm of grass can be grown in a monoculture of grass wth 100u/ac N are you?

I’m just wondering how big an advantage is the weather tho for u in France in comparasion to us ??

Gawddawggonnit

mahoney_j wrote: »

I’m just wondering how big an advantage is the weather tho for u in France in comparasion to us ??

Absolutely. I’ve written here before about trials on rainfall (irrigation in my case) washing away N.

Any fields that I have after irrigated crops show, to the line, where the water fell on land. One headland, the one where the irrigation reels are stationed, are noticeably greener as less/no irrigation was applied. Remember I don’t even use artificial fert to grow maize...therefore the more rainfall, the more Nitrates that are washed into ground water...it does make sense in fairness.

I’ll try and get some pics and post them.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Slurry storage is now banned in my county...too risky for the environment. Fym/dung seen as safer.

Take your point about slurry, great fert but does come with a certain amount of risk...especially when some bureaucrats put a date on a calendar for spreading. That sometimes leads to slurry being fired onto saturated land from roads/passageways...

Just to clarify. I was using 250uN/acre to grow an acre of winter wheat ‘till I came here. It’s almost scary how gov can hit you hard with regulation to clean up the environment. Emphasis on the word scary...

Edit. You’re not insinuating that 16+t dm of grass can be grown in a monoculture of grass wth 100u/ac N are you?

There are more on here closer to those figures that would be better able to answer that.

I don't think we have seen the limits of grass growth on the majority of farms here as yet, nowhere near it, tbh.

atlantic mist

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Irexit.

OR


Legumes..

9-10 bags 27-2.5-5 for winter wheat is absolutely necessary, without legumes. With legumes it can be done on 50u/ac, (2bags) without any penalty in yield or quality. Can’t say for grass as I’m not much of a grass man.

irexit could be a possibility in future, well be watching closely how our neighbor get out, dont underestimate eastern europe they could dampen the strength of the french post brexit, can see french and irish rubbing off eachother a lot in years to come we are competing for same shelf space on uk fridges

can the system you talk about re legumes and lower N be rolled across ireland do we have the climate? would your system which is mainly based on the US production system be compatible here with slight more expensive inputs across the board. economies of scale in production make the mixed farm enterprise impossible to justify here plus not many have an adequate land base

does irrigation system run on electricity or diesel?

got my straw delived here today, was refreshing to hear a tillage say he though lad were mad to be going into cows from tillage he was quite happy with the money he was making as he jumped back into his 200hp 172 tractor

Timmaay

We don't need to grow 16t/ha on the whole farm, only the milking block. Good few lads would be buying in silage also. Also who still horses out 100u/ac, even for 1st cuts, usually 75 max here, only 60 last yr, I need to be flexible about cutting dates.

Gawddawggonnit

atlantic mist wrote: »

irexit could be a possibility in future, well be watching closely how our neighbor get out, dont underestimate eastern europe they could dampen the strength of the french post brexit, can see french and irish rubbing off eachother a lot in years to come we are competing for same shelf space on uk fridges

can the system you talk about re legumes and lower N be rolled across ireland do we have the climate? would your system which is mainly based on the US production system be compatible here with slight more expensive inputs across the board. economies of scale in production make the mixed farm enterprise impossible to justify here plus not many have an adequate land base

does irrigation system run on electricity or diesel?

got my straw delived here today, was refreshing to hear a tillage say he though lad were mad to be going into cows from tillage he was quite happy with the money he was making as he jumped back into his 200hp 172 tractor

Irexit.
Ireland will sorely miss their greatest ally when the UK leaves. The UK have been very instrumental in Ireland keeping its ‘special’ tax (haven) status.
If there’s any friction between France and Ireland in the coming years, it will be on taxation, not on competition for shelf space in UK supermarkets. Imho.

Once there is soil available to grow crops any system can be adapted. A cow, a sow, and the acre under plough, works from one acre plus...

Irrigation is run on electricity...unless like me, you’re stealing water from rivers.

Gawddawggonnit

Timmaay wrote: »

We don't need to grow 16t/ha on the whole farm, only the milking block. Good few lads would be buying in silage also. Also who still horses out 100u/ac, even for 1st cuts, usually 75 max here, only 60 last yr, I need to be flexible about cutting dates.

If grass is your crop, you’ll want to grow 16t+ everywhere except the lawn.

Gawddawggonnit

Take another read of this, then take a look at the “Slurry opening date” thread...

Timmaay

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

If grass is your crop, you’ll want to grow 16t+ everywhere except the lawn.

If your paying 300e/ac yep, if your not bothered expanding away like crazy but got access to cheap land then why bother.

Panch18

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Irexit.
Ireland will sorely miss their greatest ally when the UK leaves. The UK have been very instrumental in Ireland keeping its ‘special’ tax (haven) status.
If there’s any friction between France and Ireland in the coming years, it will be on taxation, not on competition for shelf space in UK supermarkets. Imho.

Once there is soil available to grow crops any system can be adapted. A cow, a sow, and the acre under plough, works from one acre plus...

Irrigation is run on electricity...unless like me, you’re stealing water from rivers.

Are you seriously trying to have a go at Irish farmers about the envioronment whilst your irrigation network bleeds another aquafier or river dry??

Say my name

jaymla627 wrote: »

Holland is the test subject that we should be looking at, the EU pulled the rug out from under their dairy industry literally overnight, a fortune was spent by Dutch farmers in anticipation of quotas going on the assumption they could increases cow numbers at their will once they adhered to the current regulations at the time......
The grass mafia can blow about grazed grass and its green image till the cows come home the reality is further down the line your going to need 9000 litre/650kgs ms plus cows to make a living simply because nitrates/phosphorus limits our whatever other instrument Brussels thinks up simply won't allow high stocking rates, so production per cow will be vital

MOD SNIP
But anyway how do you feed this wonder cow and what do you do with the slurry?

If you're not producing feed on farm you're buying in and subsidizing that cow from numerous farms and it'll mean the same that slurry will also have to be spread on numerous farms not just your own farm.
Great solution.

mahoney_j

Say my name wrote: »

But anyway how do you feed this wonder cow and what do you do with the slurry?

If you're not producing feed on farm you're buying in and subsidizing that cow from numerous farms and it'll mean the same that slurry will also have to be spread on numerous farms not just your own farm.
Great solution.

Jay makes a valid point ,in your scenario dairy farmer and tillage/beef farmer etc come to agreement for maize /beet silage for slurry/fym deal

wrangler

Birdnuts wrote: »

There was something in the Farming Indo just before the holidays about teagasc looking to hire 20 water quality experts to help sort the problems you outline above. Late in the day I know but maybe finally the penny is starting to drop??

They did some pilot areas over ten years ago, they must've got some bad news in their results or we'd have heard more about it if the farmers were exonerated

Say my name

mahoney_j wrote: »

Jay makes a valid point ,in your scenario dairy farmer and tillage/beef farmer etc come to agreement for maize /beet silage for slurry/fym deal

But in the majority of cases these high output cows are fed on imported feed from the U.S. or Europe.
That's not very environmentally friendly is it.
How do you ship the slurry back to the U.S.?

At least the grass fed cow is as simple as.
Grow grass, eat grass, sh1t dung on paddock and use minimal concentrates.

jaymla627

Say my name wrote: »

.
But anyway how do you feed this wonder cow and what do you do with the slurry?

If you're not producing feed on farm you're buying in and subsidizing that cow from numerous farms and it'll mean the same that slurry will also have to be spread on numerous farms not just your own farm.
Great solution.

Team up with your local tillage farmer he draws in feed you supply him with slurry it's pretty simple, wouldn't call 650kgs ms cow anything extradionary, with the right management and genetics it's easily achievable.....
To be fair Teagasc and the Irish print media have conditioned Irish dairy farmer that no other way exists bar the grass-rich way and stocking the milking platform to the hilt, but when the boys in Brussels finally put the foot down re derogation like the Dutch increasing production per cow is the only feasible way of surviving

mahoney_j

Say my name wrote: »

But in the majority of cases these high output cows are fed on imported feed from the U.S. or Europe.
That's not very environmentally friendly is it.
How do you ship the slurry back to the U.S.?

At least the grass fed cow is as simple as.
Grow grass, eat grass, sh1t dung on paddock and use minimal concentrates.

Maby do but it’s a limited model ,what if dero pulled ,a lot of low input highly stocked farms will be in trouble.environmental regulations are going to get stiffer too

davidk1394

Birdnuts wrote: »

There was something in the Farming Indo just before the holidays about teagasc looking to hire 20 water quality experts to help sort the problems you outline above. Late in the day I know but maybe finally the penny is starting to drop??

Unfortunately Ireland's "green image" isn't as green as we all throught. N & P are the two greatest factors in algae blooms. Their doing trials around the country under catchment programmes thr site are located in dairy areas, tillage areas and less intensive areas. For Ireland to become greener unfortunately we have to bring in stricter implementation on slurry spreading, fertilizer usage and spray usages on farms.

Buford T. Justice XIX

jaymla627 wrote: »

Team up with your local tillage farmer he draws in feed you supply him with slurry it's pretty simple, wouldn't call 650kgs ms cow anything extradionary, with the right management and genetics it's easily achievable.....
To be fair Teagasc and the Irish print media have conditioned Irish dairy farmer that no other way exists bar the grass-rich way and stocking the milking platform to the hilt, but when the boys in Brussels finally put the foot down re derogation like the Dutch increasing production per cow is the only feasible way of surviving

That importing feed and exporting slurry will only work when dairy farms are situated in or near tillage areas. The majority of dairy farms aren't.

Waffletraktor

Panch18 wrote: »

Are you seriously trying to have a go at Irish farmers about the envioronment whilst your irrigation network bleeds another aquafier or river dry??

Didn't dawg not go out out of his way to emphasise having to build irrigation ponds to hold winter/storm run off from rivers as water police are especially around in Summer monitoring what goes leaking out of yard and where it ends up.
Irish dairying, 'Worlds greenest most efficient producers of commodity milk that's not really needed' a nice Bio for the twitteraity.

Waffletraktor

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

The whole biodiversity debate I find kind of peculiar. We are being preached to about diverse habitats which I have no objection to and readily support. But having had occasion to visit the house of a prominent preacher in the recent past and looking at the foreign plants and manicured lawns and contrasting that to their ideal of, basically, weed strewn pastures, I don't take an ounce of notice to those talking heads anymore.

I'd take a bet with you by the end of the next decade, to get a deregation you'll have to put aside an amount of land to be managed for bio-diversity or 'efa's' as they're called.

alps

jaymla627 wrote: »

Holland is the test subject that we should be looking at, the EU pulled the rug out from under their dairy industry literally overnight, a fortune was spent by Dutch farmers in anticipation of quotas going on the assumption they could increases cow numbers at their will once they adhered to the current regulations at the time......
The grass mafia can blow about grazed grass and its green image till the cows come home the reality is further down the line your going to need 9000 litre/650kgs ms plus cows to make a living simply because nitrates/phosphorus limits our whatever other instrument Brussels thinks up simply won't allow high stocking rates, so production per cow will be vital

The Dutch scenario was a play by farmers for what they felt could be increased phosphorus allowances, and they piled on cows in the lead up to this negotiation.

It did not pay off overall, but when the country was forced to reduce the numbers again, the reduction was imposed equally across all farmers, meaning those that caused the issue actually won out in the end...

This was an intentional play by Dutch farmers to achieve increased phosphorus limits for their farms, that they felt they could claim as an asset and trade on retirement.

It was not a loss of derogation, which is the story we are being spun and we seem to fall for it..

blue5000

Pulling these posts from dairy chit chat as it probably deserves it's own thread.

Some parishes in Cork, Tipp and Waterford are already pretty close to Dutch stocking levels, NZ are aware they have a density problem too in some intensive dairy areas. You don't have to be a dairy farmer to chip in here,

blue

Buford T. Justice XIX

Waffletraktor wrote: »

I'd take a bet with you by the end of the next decade, to get a deregation you'll have to put aside an amount of land to be managed for bio-diversity or 'efa's' as they're called.

Not a hope. Tbh, it wouldn't surprise me if they forced derogation farmers to reseed their heads with ryegrass to qualify for a derogation.

mahoney_j

Is there really a need for this thread ??

Waffletraktor

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Not a hope. Tbh, it wouldn't surprise me if they forced derogation farmers to reseed their heads with ryegrass to qualify for a derogation.

Why not your thrashing the environement, again... There's talk of lowering protein content of rations to control the amount of urea in livestock faecies in NI. Shifting away from using non protected artificial 'N' to reduce loses.

yosemitesam1

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Not a hope. Tbh, it wouldn't surprise me if they forced derogation farmers to reseed their heads with ryegrass to qualify for a derogation.

Don't see why it mightn't be included as part of greening that you might need a certain plant diversity
Say min 1 legume, 2 herbs, 3 or 4 grasses. Would have no negative effect on production for majority of dairy farms and a positive effect on a lot of them.
Some of the other species would make up for Clover's slower spring growth would be balanced off a bit by the other's and increased drought tolerance...

MF290

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Take another read of this, then take a look at the “Slurry opening date” thread...

What publication is that out of?

alps

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Why not your thrashing the environement, again... There's talk of lowering protein content of rations to control the amount of urea in livestock faecies in NI. Shifting away from using non protected artificial 'N' to reduce losses.

The questionnaire attached to.the board bia audit, now asks if soya is included in the rations....auditor just gone from here and I forgot to ask what the purpose of the question was...
Any connection with the above, or looking at the feasibility at GMO free? It's being asked for.some reason..

MF290

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/05/china-plant-forest-size-ireland-bid-become-world-leader-conservation/

This should off set any supposed increase in pollution from Ireland infant formula production