The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

Foxtrol · 05-01-2018 08:51PM

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Ok Trent.
The Brady situation doesn’t compare to Montana.
The end will come. And that’s fine. But we still have the best option at QB. I’d like to have kept JG till the end of the season in case Tom is injured in the playoffs. But, by trading JG, it meant that Bill wasn’t going anywhere (as the pick would mean nothing to him) and that he still thinks Tom is good to go for at least another year which is a better option than JG (even under the FT).

Both the OP I responded to and yourself seem pretty unbothered to see the end of the dynasty rather than hoping that the team does whatever it takes to prolong it. It might be because all Patriots fans have known for nearly two decades is being contenders but accepting you had a good run wouldn't sit well with me in that situation.

I completely disagree with your take that agreeing to the pick proves Bill is not going anywhere. He practically gave Jimmy G away to his choice of team. To me a much stronger sign of Bill staying around would have been trading Brady or milking Jimmy G for everything he could get. Maybe he sticks around for another season or so while trading away picks for players to help him win now.

Given how Jimmy G outperformed Brady over the last 5 weeks - while on a new team, dealing with a notoriously difficult to learn playbook, with much worse weapons - I'd question your assertion that he is a better option even now let alone in a year or two.

Billy86 · 05-01-2018 08:52PM

I'd imagine there was a bit of a rift of sorts - more a strong disagreement/butting of heads perhaps. I'd also imagine that's happened quite frequently in NE behind closed doors with those guys through the years though... you don't get that level of success, consistency and excellence without friction and pushing each other. Wouldn't really read much more into it, and I'd imagine it became a non-issue between all three a few days after the trade was completed.

adrian522 · 05-01-2018 08:57PM

I find it hard to believe that BB would be told to trade his backup QB by Kraft and agree to this. Just doesn't strike me as something he would put up with.

Billy86 · 05-01-2018 09:00PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Given how Jimmy G outperformed Brady over the last 5 weeks - while on a new team, dealing with a notoriously difficult to learn playbook, with much worse weapons - I'd question your assertion that he is a better option even now let alone in a year or two.

Perhaps, but I'd like to see a full season before making that call retrospectively - Garoppolo looks like he may be one of the top 3-5 QBs of the next decade from what we've seen of him (I'm massively on the Wentz bandwagon for #1 though, personally) but I get the feeling teams were taking the foot off a tiny bit against SF because of how terrible their start to the year was, even if it was a bit deceptive line the '08 Lions when they were at 0-10. That's what was so sad about this years Browns - teams didn't even look like they were trying against them and just stayed in first gear for a nice 10+ point win.

All teams, including the three good-to-excellent defenses in his division, are going to be planning a lot more for him next season and will have more tape etc to study. I still think he's going to be an absolute star but would like to wait and see maybe the first 10 games of next season before being completely certain.

Foxtrol · 05-01-2018 09:17PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Perhaps, but I'd like to see a full season before making that call retrospectively - Garoppolo looks like he may be one of the top 3-5 QBs of the next decade from what we've seen of him (I'm massively on the Wentz bandwagon for #1 though, personally) but I get the feeling teams were taking the foot off a tiny bit against SF because of how terrible their start to the year was, even if it was a bit deceptive line the '08 Lions when they were at 0-10. That's what was so sad about this years Browns - teams didn't even look like they were trying against them and just stayed in first gear for a nice 10+ point win.

All teams, including the three good-to-excellent defenses in his division, are going to be planning a lot more for him next season and will have more tape etc to study. I still think he's going to be an absolute star but would like to wait and see maybe the first 10 games of next season before being completely certain.

Agree with most of this. Definitely need to see more but the difference in the whole 49er team from before he became starter and after was amazing to watch. He elevated every player on offense (and the defense also improved).

Defenses will have more tape but Jimmy will have a full off-season, improved weapons, and a full play book to work with.

Given what we know Brady was probably the better option for this year but a minor step down for one maybe two seasons knowing you have another franchise QB for the next 10 would have been more than worth the risk of going that direction in my opinion.

Foxtrol · 05-01-2018 09:19PM

adrian522 wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that BB would be told to trade his backup QB by Kraft and agree to this. Just doesn't strike me as something he would put up with.

What could he really do in that situation? Quit mid-season when they are favorites to win another ring?

99 Bortles of Beer · 05-01-2018 09:21PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

What could he really do in that situation? Quit mid-season when they are favorites to win another ring?

I mean, he quit after 1 day as New York Jets head coach. Would the above really be beyond him?

adrian522 · 05-01-2018 09:27PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

What could he really do in that situation? Quit mid-season when they are favorites to win another ring?

That's what I would expect he would do to be honest. Once he's not making the football decisions I don't think he'd hang around too long.

Billy86 · 05-01-2018 09:32PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Agree with most of this. Definitely need to see more but the difference in the whole 49er team from before he became starter and after was amazing to watch. He elevated every player on offense (and the defense also improved).

Defenses will have more tape but Jimmy will have a full off-season, improved weapons, and a full play book to work with.

Given what we know Brady was probably the better option for this year but a minor step down for one maybe two seasons knowing you have another franchise QB for the next 10 would have been more than worth the risk of going that direction in my opinion.

Oh yeah not denying any of that - Shanahan had done an amazing job keeping in games with 'chippy' type of play and keepingthe team on board, but the 180 on offense the moment Garoppolo stepped in was nothing short of stupid. Personally I can't wait to see what he and Shanahan (whose career track record deserves some credit for the offensive output too) get up to with some more weapons about.

What are SFs biggest skill needs actually? Hyde is no megastar but I'm quite fond of him and Garcon is of course solid at WR, otherwise I'm quite unfamiliar with the guys you have there or how they were/have been doing since you've been a pretty horrendous difficult team to watch for the last 2-3 years up until Garoppolo stepped on the field.

adrian522 · 05-01-2018 09:42PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Oh yeah not denying any of that - Shanahan had done an amazing job keeping in games with 'chippy' type of play and keepingthe team on board, but the 180 on offense the moment Garoppolo stepped in was nothing short of stupid. Personally I can't wait to see what he and Shanahan (whose career track record deserves some credit for the offensive output too) get up to with some more weapons about.

What are SFs biggest skill needs actually? Hyde is no megastar but I'm quite fond of him and Garcon is of course solid at WR, otherwise I'm quite unfamiliar with the guys you have there or how they were/have been doing since you've been a pretty horrendous difficult team to watch for the last 2-3 years up until Garoppolo stepped on the field.

I think a true #1 receiver. A pass catching RB (assuming Hyde leaves) and that might be it. Unless Jimmy graham want to move South. Though Kittle has done well at TE.

Foxtrol · 05-01-2018 10:09PM

99 Bortles of Beer wrote: »

I mean, he quit after 1 day as New York Jets head coach. Would the above really be beyond him?

adrian522 wrote: »

That's what I would expect he would do to be honest. Once he's not making the football decisions I don't think he'd hang around too long.

I don't think it is beyond him to do that but it is a very different situation to quit on day 1 and quit mid-season on a group of players and staff that you brought there and worked with for years (decades) when they're on cusp of wining another ring.

I agree about him not hanging around too long but that was on the trade deadline so we'll see what happens in the offseason.

Foxtrol · 05-01-2018 10:16PM

adrian522 wrote: »

I think a true #1 receiver. A pass catching RB (assuming Hyde leaves) and that might be it. Unless Jimmy graham want to move South. Though Kittle has done well at TE.

This is about it. Not skill positions but need to also upgrade the OL. Garoppolo made them look better when he came in, compared to the beating that Beathard took, but the pocket was still collapsing too often with Garoppolo dealing with either pressures or hits (despite him usually making plays in those situations). Would like to minimize those sort of situations and risk for him. It took long enough to get a QB at that level, would like to keep him alive for a bit.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 06-01-2018 12:55AM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Both the OP I responded to and yourself seem pretty unbothered to see the end of the dynasty rather than hoping that the team does whatever it takes to prolong it. It might be because all Patriots fans have known for nearly two decades is being contenders but accepting you had a good run wouldn't sit well with me in that situation.

I followed the Pats before Bill/Brady/Kraft. It's been amazing. And this type of crazy run doesn't go on forever. So yeah, accepting it'll end is ok. A different run may come, two more years of Brady, time to draft or pickup a QB; the run will end, but can just be different.

Foxtrol wrote: »

To me a much stronger sign of Bill staying around would have been trading Brady or milking Jimmy G for everything he could get.

Or he believes that Brady is a better option than JG, which is why Brady has played every game. The only facts we have is the Bill traded JG which is pointless if he was leaving, as he could have kept him as the backup if he wasn't bothered about picks.

Foxtrol wrote: »

Given how Jimmy G outperformed Brady over the last 5 weeks - while on a new team, dealing with a notoriously difficult to learn playbook, with much worse weapons - I'd question your assertion that he is a better option even now let alone in a year or two.

Given how Bill traded JG and kept Brady, I'm fine with my assertion.

TOss Sweep · 06-01-2018 06:46AM

Been a Pats fan before Bill and Brady and have seen the bad times and if they come again so be it I will continue to be a fan and go to games and hopefully if and when the bandwagons drop off I might get my season ticket.

I will say though no matter what we al believe there is a season left to play and the Patriots with a 40 year old QB have a chance to win number 6. If that is the magic number for Tom and/or Bill so be it we all knew this time would eventually come but f*ck me what a ride it will have been with both 1 or both of them around.

Who cares about who likes who and why decisions were made the way they were. A business decision was made and it is what it is.

Will we regret Jimmy leaving? Possibly. But nothing can be done about it so if and when Brady quits we pick up our big boy pants and get on with it. The media will have a field day with it and every told you so person will come out and tell us so and so what I say we have lived through some great years as fans and we will ride into the unknown with our heads held high and trust someone will guide us eventually to more glory.

TOss Sweep · 06-01-2018 06:49AM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Given how Jimmy G outperformed Brady over the last 5 weeks - while on a new team, dealing with a notoriously difficult to learn playbook, with much worse weapons - I'd question your assertion that he is a better option even now let alone in a year or two.

Not taking away from Jimmy as I think the kid has great talent but you would be naive to think the 49ers are using their full playbook for him. They are using a trimmed down version because there is no QB in the NFL that can walk into a team with very little time and pick up a playbook that quick. And I extend that to all of the elite QBs they couldn't do it either. 49ers would have given him a sample of the playbook and played to his strengths.

TOss Sweep · 06-01-2018 06:57AM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Both the OP I responded to and yourself seem pretty unbothered to see the end of the dynasty rather than hoping that the team does whatever it takes to prolong it. It might be because all Patriots fans have known for nearly two decades is being contenders but accepting you had a good run wouldn't sit well with me in that situation..

Not to speak for others but what can Pats fans do if the Dynasty comes to an end? Be all hot and bothered by it? Where would that get any of us? At some point it will come to an end and there is not a thing any of us can do about it but accept it and enjoy it for what it was.

06-01-2018 03:50PM

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/1/5/16853614/texas-football-hs-state-championships-youth

Such a class article. The ringer has come on leaps and bounds in the last year.

Paully D · 06-01-2018 04:00PM

https://twitter.com/rapsheet/status/949661288430538752

Good news for Titans fans re: Mularkey.

OldMrBrennan83 · 06-01-2018 04:29PM

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adrian522 · 06-01-2018 04:58PM

Patww79 wrote: »

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Well sticking with a bad coach is certainly not the answer. Ask the Bengals.

Paully D · 06-01-2018 05:00PM

Patww79 wrote: »

Or bad news if McDaniels ends up as useless as the last time. Sometimes sacking isn't the only answer.

The Titans could do worse but could also do a hell of a lot better and actually use Mariota properly.

Why not at least try to get better?

OldMrBrennan83 · 06-01-2018 05:00PM

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Realt Dearg Sec · 06-01-2018 05:34PM

Patww79 wrote: »

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They could be a whole lot worse off too. The mentality these days is that change is the new winning.[/quote]
So, keep Capers?

OldMrBrennan83 · 06-01-2018 05:55PM

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OldMrBrennan83 · 06-01-2018 05:55PM

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Billy86 · 06-01-2018 06:04PM

I'm also not mad about how the changes have been done (since we're cleaning house in position coaches etc too, I would have got rid of McCarthy as well - it's clear Rodgers has been making him look a lot better than he is, not just this year but also in 2013), but I have taken Rob Ryan over Capers next year, which really should say all it needs to.

Anyway we'll see next year in terms of talent on the defense. For all the bitching about no talent in the defense and particularly secondary over the last number of year, since leaving GB Casey Hayward in 2016 has now gone all pro twice in a row, and Micah Hyde has joined him there in his first year with the Bills. This after Charles Woodson was let go because in Capers defense he looked completely over the hill only for him to go to Oakland and make the all pro team too.

That is a joke of phenomenal proportions.

OldMrBrennan83 · 06-01-2018 06:14PM

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Billy86 · 06-01-2018 07:43PM

Casey Hayward isn't the first, neither is Micah Hyde, neither is Charles Woodson. But they probably are the first three to do it three seasons in a row coming from the same team, especially coming from one of the absolute worst pass defenses in the league. That's hugely down to Capers' over-convoluted nonsense that did nothing but make it so much easier for opposing QBs and OCs to know what was coming based on the formation we had (since we seemed to have one for each individual play) while simultaneously confusing out own players, as I'd bet we're comfortably top of the league for blown coverages etc over the last 3-4 years.

Dix was an all pro last year, and it's no coincidence that he got there because he played a simplified role - mostly staying deep and assisting on routes (primarily Gunter who was so slow). This is what he always should have been at before hand but Capers liked to get "exotic" (he loooooves "exotic" regardless of if it works or not), and so naturally this season... right back to using Dix in about 10 different roles and responsibilities depending on the formation and play. Dix is a class safety, but he's no Eric Berry or Earl Thomas between the ears... keep his play simple. Same goes for Josh Jones who was phenomenal early, and then wound up getting used in a myriad of roles and just looked lost out there a good bit in the last few weeks.

Though there certainly are personnel upgrades to be made, primarily on the edge. Still got big hopes for Blake Martinez at MLB though!

Paully D · 06-01-2018 08:06PM

adrian522 wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that BB would be told to trade his backup QB by Kraft and agree to this. Just doesn't strike me as something he would put up with.

And I think that revelation in the article is one of a number of things that the author is suggesting for why things may come to a close soon.

jack presley · 06-01-2018 11:40PM

Just as we've gotten off the Brady/Kraft/Bellichick thing, this comes into my Twitter feed.

https://twitter.com/onlyinbos/status/949641710446850050

The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

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