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Breaking: At least 1 man dead after stabbing rampage in Dundalk

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Comments

  • #902
    Skedaddle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 775 ✭✭✭Skedaddle


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    What??? We'd need to leave the EU and change our immigration laws to arrest and deport people that are here illegally??? What are you waffling on about??

    I'm not entirely sure why the EU's being dragged into this.

    Neither Ireland, nor the UK are in the Schengen area and control their own borders and issue their own visas. The person question would have been subject to Irish visa and immigration regulations and to their British equivalents if he were in the UK previously.

    The rumours that he had been in the UK, would imply that he crossed into the Republic using the provisions of the Common Travel Area, not the EU.

    Would the posters suggesting that we leave the EU extend their logic to what actually happened then, and wind up the CTA and fence the Northern Irish border?

    I suspect not somehow...


  • #903
    testaccount123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭testaccount123


    Illegal Irish in US or anywhere else should be deported.


  • #904
    Irishmale0399
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Irishmale0399


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    You think I'm suggesting we should leave the EU?

    Immigration laws in this case are set by the EU. They are the only ones who can change anything....Ireland is only a small spot in the big picture.

    If Ireland started deporting people they would be breaking EU law as the EU (pressured by Merkel) set fixed minimum numbers for each country to take in.

    As for your statement...I understood it....but a lot of people here wouldnt. They only read that they want to read....;)


  • #905
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Skedaddle wrote: »
    I'm not entirely sure why the EU's being dragged into this.

    Neither Ireland, nor the UK are in the Schengen area and control their own borders and issue their own visas. The person question would have been subject to Irish visa and immigration regulations and to their British equivalents if he were in the UK previously.

    The rumours that he had been in the UK, would imply that he crossed into the Republic using the provisions of the Common Travel Area, not the EU.

    Would the posters suggesting that we leave the EU extend their logic to what actually happened then, and wind up the CTA and fence the Northern Irish border?

    I suspect not somehow...

    The CTA allows Irish and British citizens to travel freely between both countries. This guy was Egyptian. He had no valid visa to be in the UK. He had been declined asylum. How was he allowed to board a ship from Scotland to NI?? Surely someone with no right to be in the UK should not be allowed travel freely around it.


  • #906
    Skedaddle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 775 ✭✭✭Skedaddle


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    The CTA allows Irish and British citizens to travel freely between both countries. This guy was Egyptian. He had no valid visa to be in the UK. He had been declined asylum. How was he allowed to board a ship from Scotland to NI?? Surely someone with no right to be in the UK should not be allowed travel freely around it.

    I don't know, ask the British authorities that one. They clearly let him board.
    There's also no border between Northern Ireland and Scotland as it's all the UK. It's a bit like suggesting that someone would be stopped from boarding the Cork train at Heuston based on immigration status.


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  • #907
    Irishmale0399
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Irishmale0399


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    The CTA allows Irish and British citizens to travel freely between both countries. This guy was Egyptian. He had no valid visa to be in the UK. He had been declined asylum. How was he allowed to board a ship from Scotland to NI?? Surely someone with no right to be in the UK should not be allowed travel freely around it.

    The big question in all of this is "Where was his first point of contact in the EU?"

    Lets say for example it was Greece....then the English should have sent him back there and not allowed him to move on to Ireland.


  • #908
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Irishmale0399 wrote: »
    Immigration laws in this case are set by the EU. They are the only ones who can change anything....Ireland is only a small spot in the big picture.

    If Ireland started deporting people they would be breaking EU law as the EU (pressured by Merkel) set fixed minimum numbers for each country to take in.

    As for your statement...I understood it....but a lot of people here wouldnt. They only read that they want to read....;)

    This guy had been declined asylum in the UK. Legally, under EU law he should not have been here and we would have been well within our rights to deport him back to UK. But Paddy didn't want the paperwork, so he was sent on his way to murder an innocent man.


  • #909
    testaccount123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭testaccount123


    Skedaddle wrote: »
    I'm not entirely sure why the EU's being dragged into this.

    Neither Ireland, nor the UK are in the Schengen area and control their own borders and issue their own visas. The person question would have been subject to Irish visa and immigration regulations and to their British equivalents if he were in the UK previously.

    The rumours that he had been in the UK, would imply that he crossed into the Republic using the provisions of the Common Travel Area, not the EU.

    Would the posters suggesting that we leave the EU extend their logic to what actually happened then, and wind up the CTA and fence the Northern Irish border?

    I suspect not somehow...

    We've no facts yet, just speculation, but the Garda have indicated that the Egyptian was denied leave to stay in the UK immediately before arriving here.

    The Dublin Agreement provides for the scenario where an asylum seeker fails to gain asylum in a first EU country and expressly prohibits going to another to re-apply.

    It appears for whatever reason neither the UK or Irish authorities are enforcing this. The agreement seems to have been abandoned for political reasons.


  • #910
    jmayo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,227 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    dav3 wrote: »
    It’s a sad day when this is what remains of the far-right in Ireland. Fearmongering, lies and sh*tposts.

    The Syrian angle was taken away early and now the terrorism angle is looking less likely.

    As sad as this particular event is, it looks like just another 'random and unprovoked' attack on our streets.

    R.I.P. to the victim.

    Even if it wasn't terrorism it was a totally unprovoked attack on multiple strangers with the aim to kill.

    How many of these do we have every day ?

    Yes we have stabbings, yes we have gun violence, but at least there are some discernible motives be it drunken arguments, family feuds or gang warfare.

    And this attack was carried out by someone that should not be in this country, or actually in any EU country at this point in time.

    Have you ever stopped to think what has become of modern Europe.
    Over the last number of years I have visited France and Italy.
    You now have fully armed soldiers on duty in cities, especially around tourist areas.
    Last summer it was noticable how many armed soldiers were around things like
    museums and art galleries in places like Florence or the leaning tower of Pisa.
    Were they there 20 years ago, ten years ago ?
    And yes i know there was high security in the likes of Paris in the past when terrorists from North Africa were targeting the likes of the Metro.
    But it has reached new levels the last few years.

    Hell I am off to Dublin Zoo tonight with the family and we have been told that backpacks really shouldn't be brought and they will be searched.
    It was the same story during the summer going to Croker.

    Even in the worst of the Troubles on this island I don't recall people being stopped bringing bags to such places.

    This is the fact of life in modern Europe and even little old modern Ireland.

    And yet you and your ilk like the spanner that is Lord Mayor of London will gloss it off and tell people this is the price you should pay for living in modern Europe.

    Is this the type of society that we are gifting to our children, all so that the sutherlands of this world can keep their cash cows rolling on and the likes of you can feel superior that you are helping someone that you deem less fortunate and worthy of saving.

    Europe is slowly committing societal suicide.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • #911
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,160 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    testaccount123 wrote: »
    Muslims in Britain have zero tolerance of homosexuality

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality

    Maybe it's not just the muslims who are intolerant.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/23/fifty-years-gay-liberation-uk-barely-four-1967-act

    Also, how tolerant was the catholic church and Irish society in general of homosexuals not so long ago?

    We are much better than a lot of places but people in glass houses....


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  • #912
    baylah17
    Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭baylah17


    a few things on this horrific incident that make me wonder if it was a planned terrorist attack.
    The guy presented himself the GNIB and applied for asylum before returning to Dundalk on Tuesday, why bother applying for asylum if you are planning a terror attack?
    Secondly , though details are still scarce he does not appear to have been shouting Islamist slogans as he attacked, and he he picked an area that was away from the centre of the town where he could have done so much more harm.
    Thirdly, the Gardai describe him as having been in a distressed state when arrested.
    None of that seems to match up to what we have become used to (sadly) in other terror attacks in the UK and Europe.


  • #913
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Skedaddle wrote: »
    I don't know, ask the British authorities that one. They clearly let him board.
    There's also no border between Northern Ireland and Scotland as it's all the UK.

    I never said there was a border. I asked why someone who has failed in an attempt to claim asylum was given freedom of movement around the country. Its a farcical system and its the same in Ireland. Asylum rejected, free to go where you like while you appeal x 10.


  • #914
    s3rtvdbwfj81ch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭s3rtvdbwfj81ch


    How many similar people are walking our streets? Who have been denied asylum in the UK or another country? Do the authorities even know?


  • #915
    Skedaddle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 775 ✭✭✭Skedaddle


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    I never said there was a border. I asked why someone who has failed in an attempt to claim asylum was given freedom of movement around the country. Its a farcical system and its the same in Ireland. Asylum rejected, free to go where you like while you appeal x 10.

    Again, you'd have to look at why the UK does that based on UK law. That's about due process and rights to appeal and how the UK opts to process things itself.
    Blaming the EU for systems crated by the Irish or British government, courts and so on is a bit of a pointless exercise.


  • #916
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Poland and Hungary are not divided countries at all. They've gone the best route in securing their borders and not allowing non-european migrants to get a foothold in their countries, they've gone about it the right way .

    I think it's hilarious the amount of people holding up Poland as an example of what we should do.

    If Poland is such a great country to live then how come there are so many living here? I'll tell you why, it's a ****hole of the highest order.


  • #917
    testaccount123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭testaccount123


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Maybe it's not just the muslims who are intolerant.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/23/fifty-years-gay-liberation-uk-barely-four-1967-act

    Also, how tolerant was the catholic church and Irish society in general of homosexuals not so long ago?

    We are much better than a lot of places but people in glass houses....

    Oh I agree. It took us long enough to get rid of the Catholic influence, lets not start importing an even worse religion en-masse.


  • #918
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,335 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Whatever about the rest of your post, I've no issue with anyone coming to our shores to work for a living. Beats a lot of our lazy homegrown idle spongers anyway.

    we actually need foreign workers to fuel the demand for workers in the tech sector we work so hard to entice here.


  • #919
    s3rtvdbwfj81ch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭s3rtvdbwfj81ch


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    we actually need foreign workers to fuel the demand for workers in the tech sector we work so hard to entice here.

    Australian Points system!


  • #920
    jmayo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,227 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Maybe it's not just the muslims who are intolerant.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/23/fifty-years-gay-liberation-uk-barely-four-1967-act

    Also, how tolerant was the catholic church and Irish society in general of homosexuals not so long ago?

    We are much better than a lot of places but people in glass houses....

    Hey using that logic jeffrey dahmer isn't so bad after all since if you go back far enough everyone might have engaged in the odd bit of cannibalism. :rolleyes:

    BTW just to stop the shyte right now lets cover all the bases for the excusors.

    IRA, PIRA, INLA.
    Magdalene laundries
    Industrial schools
    Church paedophiles
    Shannon airport
    Drug gangs
    Polish card player stabbings
    Car accidents
    Peanut allergies

    I now the list is long so maybe I have forgotten some of the newer additions trotted out to lessen the impact of someone walking up behind a totla stranger at 9am and stabbing them in the back in an unprovoked attack.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • #921
    testaccount123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭testaccount123


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    we actually need foreign workers to fuel the demand for workers in the tech sector we work so hard to entice here.

    Luckily we (like Poland and Hungary etc) are part of an agreed economic union with the rest of Europe with freedom of travel to work, so we're boxed off there.

    No need to import uneducated Pakistanis or Algerians at all.


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  • #922
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,160 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Poster thought people here would circle the wagons and defend the illegal Irish in America because they're "our own". They were wrong.

    Omackeral, you have no idea what I'm thinking. You've implied it a few times here.

    Suffice to say it is quite different to your blinkered view of what you think the motive of anyone who disagrees with you is. ;)


  • #923
    Irishmale0399
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Irishmale0399


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    This guy had been declined asylum in the UK. Legally, under EU law he should not have been here and we would have been well within our rights to deport him back to UK. But Paddy didn't want the paperwork, so he was sent on his way to murder an innocent man.

    He should have been sent back to the country that he had his first contact or registration within the EU. We dont know if this was the UK or not and I suspect that this is what Paddy was trying to find out.

    Added to that these people change their names/age like some of us change our boxers.....so if I am honest I wouldnt want to be in the position of a police officer on the 1.1.18. Added to that maybe he gave the name and date of birth of someone who is allowed to be in the country.
    Simple fact is no one knows except the police.


  • #924
    baylah17
    Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭baylah17


    jmayo wrote: »

    I now the list is long so maybe I have forgotten some of the newer additions trotted out to lessen the impact of someone walking up behind a totla stranger at 9am and stabbing them in the back in an unprovoked attack.
    Actually you missed the most obvious one, mental illness
    and in the absence of any real information as to the motivation for this terrible attack you cannot simply deny the possibility!


  • #925
    jmayo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,227 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    baylah17 wrote: »
    Actually you missed the most obvious one, mental illness
    and in the absence of any real information as to the motivation for this terrible attack you cannot simply deny the possibility!

    Funny how many lethal mentally ill attacks are carried out by migrants/asylum seekers from North Africa, Middle East and parts of Asia.

    I wonder what is the common thread that links all these supposed mentally ill people ?
    Is it source state, is it culture, is it upbringing, is it religious ideology ?

    How come we don't get mentally ill people from other parts of the world and other religious backgrounds resorting to unprovoked lethal attacks ?

    We have huge issues with lack of funding for dealing with mental illness in this country and yet some think it is a good idea to import a group of people that are proving to contain it seems a high amount of sufferers of even more destructive forms of mental illness.

    It beggars belief.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • #926
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Irishmale0399 wrote: »
    He should have been sent back to the country that he had his first contact or registration within the EU. We dont know if this was the UK or not and I suspect that this is what Paddy was trying to find out.

    Added to that these people change their names/age like some of us change our boxers.....so if I am honest I wouldnt want to be in the position of a police officer on the 1.1.18. Added to that maybe he gave the name and date of birth of someone who is allowed to be in the country.
    Simple fact is no one knows except the police.

    The Garda KNEW he was here illegally, thats why he told him to go to Dublin to register. If he was here legally he wouldn't have sent him to Dublin to claim asylum. These are all verifiable facts as told by the Gardai.


  • #927
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    pilly wrote: »

    If Poland is such a great country to live then how come there are so many living here? I'll tell you why, it's a ****hole of the highest order.

    Is it yeah? Ever been? I'd suggest heading to Krakow, Poznan or Sopot. Far from sh*tholes. Disrespectful and ignorant tripe out of you as usual.


  • #928
    testaccount123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭testaccount123


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Is it yeah? Ever been? I'd suggest heading to Krakow, Poznan or Sopot. Far from sh*tholes. Disrespectful and ignorant tripe out of you as usual.

    Poland is class.


  • #929
    baylah17
    Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭baylah17


    jmayo wrote: »
    Funny how many lethal mentally ill attacks are carried out by migrants/asylum seekers from North Africa, Middle East and parts of Asia.

    I wonder what is the common thread that links all these supposed mentally ill people ?
    Is it source state, is it culture, is it upbringing, is it religious ideology ?

    How come we don't get mentally ill people from other parts of the world and other religious backgrounds resorting to unprovoked lethal attacks ?

    We have huge issues with lack of funding for dealing with mental illness in this country and yet some think it is a good idea to import a group of people that are proving to contain it seems a high amount of sufferers of even more destructive forms of mental illness.

    It beggars belief.
    Actually at least 4 Irish people were found Not Guilty of murder by reason of insanity in the Central criminal Court last year.
    Im not saying that this guy has mental health issues all im saying is that at the moment we dont know and it is an avenue of investigation by the Garda


  • #930
    Irishmale0399
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Irishmale0399


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    The Garda KNEW he was here illegally, thats why he told him to go to Dublin to register. If he was here legally he wouldn't have sent him to Dublin to claim asylum. These are all verifiable facts as told by the Gardai.

    Yes he knew he was illegal....but what other info did he have, did he give him a name, did he offer an address, did he tell him about the UK problem??? These questions cannot be 100% answered and the Gardai will certainly not tell us the facts.

    The Gardai are streched to their limits along the border and I can only assume that the normal process is that these people are told to make their way to Dublin to register and to be looked after to take the burden off local officers.
    Its an EU wide problem and unfortunately the EU never contemplated the numbers that have arrived and have never put measures in place to deal with it EU wide.


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  • #931
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    testaccount123 wrote: »
    Poland is class.

    It is. People are bang too. The reason a lot came over here is because it made sense financially. I know a chap who was in their equivalent of the ERU/SWAT police over there. Making sweet f*ck all compared to doing a menial warehouse job over here, that's according to himself. Friendly guy, good at his job and never late or absent. Why wouldn't you want someone like that here?!


This discussion has been closed.
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