‪Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread IX: The Last Jordi [****]

.ak · 26-12-2017 10:03pm

Buer wrote: »

You're being ridiculously over the top in your criticism of him.

How?

Clegg · 26-12-2017 10:04pm

If I had to choose between Byrne and Carbery it's Joey all day long. Would much rather both stay of course. There will have to be a decision made eventually though as both can't play 10 at the same time.

prawnsambo · 26-12-2017 10:05pm

Buer wrote: »

You're being ridiculously over the top in your criticism of him.

+1
A couple of mistakes in defence is hardly a hanging offence for a guy just off the plane and yet to develop an on-field relationship with his team=mates. Very harsh to call him poison. Especially as his workrate was pretty damn hectic.

.ak · 26-12-2017 10:07pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

+1
A couple of mistakes in defence is hardly a hanging offence for a guy just off the plane and yet to develop an on-field relationship with his team=mates. Very harsh to call him poison. Especially as his workrate was pretty damn hectic.

It was a lot more than a 'couple of mistakes'.

And I never said he IS poison, just that he WAS.

Read my OP again, I said I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. He's one of the best left wingers in the world, I expected more considering his calibre but I do value his work rate and will fit in eventually.

Buer · 26-12-2017 10:08pm

.ak wrote: »

How?

You've micro analysed his game which can be done with any player and they'll come off badly. You have a focus on picking apart wingers. His overall performance was not "poison".

He made some big mistakes. He showed some nice moments too. Plenty to work on and plenty to be excited about.

prawnsambo · 26-12-2017 10:09pm

Clegg wrote: »

If I had to choose between Byrne and Carbery it's Joey all day long. Would much rather both stay of course. There will have to be a decision made eventually though as both can't play 10 at the same time.

To keep or to let go? Carbery to keep for me, but I hate making the choice. Ross Byrne has no ceiling yet and his cross-field kicks are so accurate it's silly. So far injury has been keeping Joey out of the ten shirt, but the time will come when a choice absolutely must be made and letting Byrne go to Ulster means that both can develop quicker.

georgewickstaff · 26-12-2017 10:11pm

You're a moderator? I'm gobsmacked. Typical clueless internet nonsense. Poison? I genuinely doubt you have ever played the game. I notice your whingeing about referees in a few posts. You are clearly some socceresque knack who spouts poisonous cliched tripe as a sop to his own ego.

Poisonous and frankly embarrassing. Please stop pretending to know everything there is to know about rugby and then boring us all to death. Get your arse onto planetrugby and see how you get on.

.ak · 26-12-2017 10:12pm

Buer wrote: »

You've micro analysed his game which can be done with any player and they'll come off badly. You have a focus on picking apart wingers. His overall performance was not "poison".

He made some big mistakes. He showed some nice moments too. Plenty to work on and plenty to be excited about.

I analysed more than him. But c'mon, can you say he wasn't the worst player on the pitch? Clearly was.

He did show some nice moments in attack, and I am excited about him, don't see how I can't say that but not acknowledge he had an awful game that almost cost us.

Former Former · 26-12-2017 10:13pm

I think we can all agree that the Kolpak argument is settled for a while at least.

26-12-2017 10:13pm

This should be entertaining.

prawnsambo · 26-12-2017 10:13pm

georgewickstaff wrote: »

You're a moderator? I'm gobsmacked. Typical clueless internet nonsense. Poison? I genuinely doubt you have ever played the game. I notice your whingeing about referees in a few posts. You are clearly some socceresque knack who spouts poisonous cliched tripe as a sop to his own ego.

Poisonous and frankly embarrassing. Please stop pretending to know everything there is to know about rugby and then boring us all to death. Get your arse onto planetrugby and see how you get on.

Ah, .ak is a winger afaik, so he has a very particular view of that position.

Be calmer. It helps.

FrannoFan · 26-12-2017 10:13pm

.ak wrote: »

Lowe was poison today, but we know he's capable of much much more so I'll give him the benefit of doubt.

Is that a wind up?

Reid left him hanging for last try.

Shot up to close for another and kick chase needs work but hardly "poison"
Not a perfect performance but see worse.
Has a cannon of a left boot. Did more good than bad. I'd continue to work with him. Only his end game. A lack of cohesion to be expected

.ak · 26-12-2017 10:14pm

georgewickstaff wrote: »

You're a moderator? I'm gobsmacked. Typical clueless internet nonsense. Poison? I genuinely doubt you have ever played the game. I notice your whingeing about referees in a few posts. You are clearly some socceresque knack who spouts poisonous cliched tripe as a sop to his own ego.

Poisonous and frankly embarrassing. Please stop pretending to know everything there is to know about rugby and then boring us all to death. Get your arse onto planetrugby and see how you get on.

Everything is wrong about your post.

Infracted, this forum is for discussing rugby, not moaning about other posters.
Attack the post not the poster.

Please read our forum charter before posting again.

georgewickstaff · 26-12-2017 10:18pm

You called a player "poison". You attacked a player with some childish insults. You're a moderator? Tag Rugby player? Good grief. Don't worry won't be back if this is what passes as "analysis". Poison!

.ak · 26-12-2017 10:19pm

FrannoFan wrote: »

Is that a wind up?

Reid left him hanging for last try.

Shot up to close for another and kick chase needs work but hardly "poison"
Not a perfect performance but see worse.
Has a cannon of a left boot. Did more good than bad. I'd continue to work with him. Only his end game. A lack of cohesion to be expected

His defence was very poor, not just his tackling, but he kept biting in on his inside shoulder. He has to trust his inside defence. When you're that close to your line you need to take the last man, trust your inside defence, at the very least your full back will get to an inside break better than a last man.

Listen, I can forgiven (and do forgive) the defensive errors in the line, as the team will have a particular system that takes a while to bed in, but it wasn't just that. He was flat and caught out a few times with kicks, JGP ended up covering his wing a few times and was poor himself at that. Also there was the messing at the rucks which a guy at his level just shouldn't be getting away with, in at the side that time was utterly stupid.

.ak · 26-12-2017 10:20pm

georgewickstaff wrote: »

You called a player "poison". You attacked a player with some childish insults. You're a moderator? Tag Rugby player? Good grief. Don't worry won't be back if this is what passes as "analysis". Poison!

Bye so.

26-12-2017 10:33pm

I've no doubt that we'll look back on this performance from Lowe in comparison to the performances that are to come and think it was below par.

That said, I thought he was ultra physical and can fend like a back row. He makes nice decisions and has great hands (had me worried once or twice but he backs himself). He had some nice interactions with those around him and seems to really enjoy his game which is a nice contrast to the constant state of worry a lot of our lads appear to be in.

We've an incredibly effective defensive set up but probably not without it's complications so I can very much forgive some early errors. Larmour for all his quality made as many errors but it's good to see the positivity with which we played. I've no doubt Ferg will be back in for the arm wrestles but I was enormously encouraged by our back 3 tonight, even if Daly was a bit quiet.

Poison is probably somewhat harsh but semantic wise not entirely inaccurate.

If Byrne heads to Ulster i'll be very disappointed but nothing even close to as angry as I'll get if Ulster supporters continue to chastise the IRFU in spite of landing such a quality operator.

beertons · 26-12-2017 10:40pm

I could watch repeats of the Larmour try all day long. It was class. Someone stick up a clip of it please.

Burkie1203 · 26-12-2017 10:43pm

Lowe will do a lot better with RK at 15. People seriously underestimate the power of good organisation in a back 3. If Larmour becomes half as good as Kearney in that facet of 15 play he will be a truly special player.

.ak · 26-12-2017 10:45pm

beertons wrote: »

I could watch repeats of the Larmour try all day long. It was class. Someone stick up a clip of it please.

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/945778063421325312

Also, whilst we're at it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3wzKSvpeeQ

Here's to completing a hattrick on New Years against Connacht!

Squidgy Black · 26-12-2017 10:47pm

Honestly I'd choose to keep Byrne over Carbery at 10 if we had the choice. He's really improved over the last season, his kicking out of hand is solid and his placekicking has improved tenfold.

Yeah Carbery has the flashiness and is a true playmaker, but I feel that Byrne in the next couple of years will pick up the nuances of game management at 10 and become a solid operator.

.ak · 26-12-2017 10:48pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Lowe will do a lot better with RK at 15. People seriously underestimate the power of good organisation in a back 3. If Larmour becomes half as good as Kearney in that facet of 15 play he will be a truly special player.

You're absolutely right.

We missed Kearney today, thought our back 3 as a unit were all over the shop today, especially in the 2nd half. Munster realized that and punished us there. An experienced 15 always helps newer lads settle into the specific patterns of a team.

Thing is, Larmour is undeniably special. How does he fit into the picture? What's our first choice back three come the business end of the season?

I have a feeling it'll be 15. Kearney, 14. Byrne, 11. Lowe... but when you see Isa putting in the shift he did the other week against Exeter you gotta think he'll be in play somewhere too.

I think for the remainder of the season Larmour may be a specialist 23, looks equally good on the wing but he's a bit special at 15 where he can pick a gap.

Bridge93 · 26-12-2017 10:49pm

My view of it would be that Carbery and Byrne are good at different things. At a basic level with gametime and work ethic I believe you can teach Carbery to do what Byrne does. You can't teach Byrne to do what Carbery does. Of course ideally both stay

salmocab · 26-12-2017 10:51pm

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

Honestly I'd choose to keep Byrne over Carbery at 10 if we had the choice. He's really improved over the last season, his kicking out of hand is solid and his placekicking has improved tenfold.

Yeah Carbery has the flashiness and is a true playmaker, but I feel that Byrne in the next couple of years will pick up the nuances of game management at 10 and become a solid operator.

Byrne looks like the sort of player who is doing everything right from a training and developing point of view, he didnt blow me away in his first few games but seems to just be getting slightly better all the time. His place kicking is now very good and at least in my head I had it that he was poor enough last season although that may have been based on one or two games. Looks like a guy that maybe in 2/3 years might have worked his way slowly up the the Irish pecking order without ever making a massive jump.

.ak · 26-12-2017 10:53pm

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

Honestly I'd choose to keep Byrne over Carbery at 10 if we had the choice. He's really improved over the last season, his kicking out of hand is solid and his placekicking has improved tenfold.

Yeah Carbery has the flashiness and is a true playmaker, but I feel that Byrne in the next couple of years will pick up the nuances of game management at 10 and become a solid operator.

Feels that way alright...

Thing is, Carbery is one of those guys you can't help but feel will learn as he goes. Same can be said for Byrne, but I think Carbery has that wider array of talents that will make him an international class 10.

But let's see what happens, Carbery needs to get fit and playing at 10 first.

If everyone was fit and firing right now some very special players would be losing out... but it's rugby, so nobody is ever fit and firing, which is why I don't think Byrne will be going on anywhere. Seems to have a knack of keeping himself fit, he doesn't needlessly go into contact often, he defends cleverly, and he's a pretty big unit. He'll have as much game time as he wants with Leinster and IRFU's cottonwool treatment of Johnny.

stephen_n · 26-12-2017 11:15pm

I had moments of doubt about Byrne last year, when he seemed to be sitting off the play a bit, maybe just lacking in confidence after the injury, or the meteoric rise of Carberry. This season though he has steadily grown and is looking like the player he promised to become at U20. When I saw him then, I reckoned he was the next Sexton, this season I’m starting to think that again. His attitude, character and game management are all at a similar level to Johnny at the same age. It would be a disaster in forward planning to let him go to Ulster.

alwald · 26-12-2017 11:17pm

I quite like Byrne and I can even see him playing for Ireland at 10, he has a simple but very effective rugby style, he lacks that little bit of spark but apart from that he's very good.
The Carberry VS Byrne debate doesn't exist for me simply because they are 2 different players with different styles, it's all down to who's the coach and what style matches their needs.

Lowe needs to put the head down and work hard, today he was acting a bit "silly" in my opinion as he was looking to get the ball quickly from Munster players each time the ref blew the whistle...I mean come on you are just in so don't act like that and focus on your game first.

Larmour needs to improve his defensive skills, he was the culprit, along with Lowe, in one of the tries...apart from that he's very good at 15 when it comes to finding a gap and creating chances/scoring tries.

prawnsambo · 26-12-2017 11:17pm

.ak wrote: »

If everyone was fit and firing right now some very special players would be losing out... but it's rugby, so nobody is ever fit and firing, which is why I don't think Byrne will be going on anywhere. Seems to have a knack of keeping himself fit, he doesn't needlessly go into contact often, he defends cleverly, and he's a pretty big unit. He'll have as much game time as he wants with Leinster and IRFU's cottonwool treatment of Johnny.

You can't bet your career on injuries though. Carbery is a capped international now, so in any objective assessment, he's above Byrne in the pecking order. That will inevitably result in Byrne missing out and in the big matches especially.

It makes sense on every level.

stephen_n · 26-12-2017 11:21pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

You can't bet your career on injuries though. Carbery is a capped international now, so in any objective assessment, he's above Byrne in the pecking order. That will inevitably result in Byrne missing out and in the big matches especially.

It makes sense on every level.

Yes but he’s a capped international who has played at 15 to accommodate Byrne at 10, in nearly every game they’ve both been available for. Obviously Joeys versatility as opppsed to Byrnes lack there of plays a big part there. But so far Byrne isn’t missing much.

.ak · 26-12-2017 11:27pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

You can't bet your career on injuries though. Carbery is a capped international now, so in any objective assessment, he's above Byrne in the pecking order. That will inevitably result in Byrne missing out and in the big matches especially.

It makes sense on every level.

True, but the management have shown faith in Byrne this year. He looks to be the preferred option. Having said that, they've also essentially said he's a place holder for Carbery. That's a tough pill to swallow, OR it's a good motivation to show them wrong. Could be a clever bit of coaching.

prawnsambo · 26-12-2017 11:30pm

stephen_n wrote: »

Yes but he’s a capped international who has played at 15 to accommodate Byrne at 10, in nearly every game they’ve both been available for. Obviously Joeys versatility as opppsed to Byrnes lack there of plays a big part there. But so far Byrne isn’t missing much.

So far. But injury has been part of that too. Joe Schmidt would be a lot happier if Joey was playing ten, but that was somewhat tempered by the fact that Leinster were down a couple of back three players and Joey had to fill in. But Rob is back, Lowe is now in place and that excuse can't be used any more. Joey is injured again, but the can will not be kicked much further down the road before Ross gets to view proceedings from the bench, or worse still, the stand.

Granny15 · 26-12-2017 11:44pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

To keep or to let go? Carbery to keep for me, but I hate making the choice. Ross Byrne has no ceiling yet and his cross-field kicks are so accurate it's silly. So far injury has been keeping Joey out of the ten shirt, but the time will come when a choice absolutely must be made and letting Byrne go to Ulster means that both can develop quicker.

Ulster have McPhillips coming through who is very good in my book despite the bad wrap he gets on his game management and consistency. His place kicking is probably his weakest aspect and what has prevented him progressing. I would say Byrne would be mad to go there for this reason and I think the Irish rugby chiefs will be keen Ulster develop their own 10's. Munster have Johnston but he's further behind on the development curve so that might be more feasible. Connacht could well use and play an outhalf like Byrne but not sure he'd be willing to go. Just thinking IF he goes to Ulster and it's a very big if could Leinster exchange him for Cooney and get a decent place kicker in exchange for Byrne?

27-12-2017 12:08am

Very strong contender for try of the year. Some pair of feet, jesus.

Granny15 · 27-12-2017 12:10am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Very strong contender for try of the year. Some pair of feet, jesus.

could then again those awards are voted by pundits who tout this player like wardy

27-12-2017 12:13am

Hilarious listening back, Nigel Owens is absolutely loving that run, he loses it twice.

Burkie1203 · 27-12-2017 12:13am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Very strong contender for try of the year. Some pair of feet, jesus.

The single biggest mistake the rugby gods ever made was not allowing Larmour and Fitz just one season together.

27-12-2017 12:20am

Burkie1203 wrote: »

The single biggest mistake the rugby gods ever made was not allowing Larmour and Fitz just one season together.

Ah sure fitz was overrated.

swiwi_ · 27-12-2017 6:08am

I have to say .ak you’re the man for polar extremes

« Ferg was absolutely brilliant »
« Lowe was poison »

Defending is a team effort, and Lowe got it wrong once in my view. Not unusual in a 2nd outing. Also not sure where you read he was one of the worlds best left wingers? He’s a good left winger i don’t think he’s world class though. Also he could have given away a couple of ruck penalties and he lost a couple of the kick chases. But he all but scored a try and his work rate was ferg-esque. Give the man a bit of leeway to settle in.

Rigor Mortis · 27-12-2017 10:33am

In fairness, if you watched the SUPER 69, it was fairly clear that Lowe is not a natural defender. He will undoubtedly be better when he gets a bit more time with the team, but he is always likely to be a bit suspect.

27-12-2017 10:47am

You know this season as we get fewer home games due to the conference system STHs are meant to get an extra ticket to a home game, how does one go about claiming said ticket? Logged onto my ticketmaster account but nothing is jumping out at me.

irishbucsfan · 27-12-2017 10:50am

Dax Obedient Geometry wrote: »

You know this season as we get fewer home games due to the conference system STHs are meant to get an extra ticket to a home game, how does one go about claiming said ticket? Logged onto my ticketmaster account but nothing is jumping out at me.

You should have got an email and there was a code in that email you can use to claim the ticket on ticketmaster. I got the email on 9th August and it was titled "Guinness PRO14 Fixtures & Munster Timelines"

27-12-2017 10:59am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You should have got an email and there was a code in that email you can use to claim the ticket on ticketmaster. I got the email on 9th August and it was titled "Guinness PRO14 Fixtures & Munster Timelines"

Got it, thanks.

durthacht · 27-12-2017 11:24am

Deleted User wrote: »

Very strong contender for try of the year. Some pair of feet, jesus.

There is a fella on thejournal.ie criticising Larmour for not passing!

"Really liked the Larmours try on first watch, but he does choose not to pass to any of the three men on his outside and, as fast as he looked, Zebo chased him down hard."

Mind you, there is another guy whose suggested Six Nations team doesn't include Henderson or Healy. Maybe I just just stop reading comments on thejournal.ie

Bridge93 · 27-12-2017 11:28am

I kinda surprised people are this impressed by Zebo chasing him down. I've heard it in a few spots. Zebo was a hell of a lot fresher, supposedly rapid, had the angle and wasn't trying to avoid numerous other players

prawnsambo · 27-12-2017 11:29am

swiwi_ wrote: »

I have to say .ak you’re the man for polar extremes

« Ferg was absolutely brilliant »
« Lowe was poison »

Defending is a team effort, and Lowe got it wrong once in my view. Not unusual in a 2nd outing. Also not sure where you read he was one of the worlds best left wingers? He’s a good left winger i don’t think he’s world class though. Also he could have given away a couple of ruck penalties and he lost a couple of the kick chases. But he all but scored a try and his work rate was ferg-esque. Give the man a bit of leeway to settle in.

Yeah. Only his second outing and only one player iirc in the back five (Larmour) the same as in his first match. Also much tougher opposition this time around.

27-12-2017 11:29am

Bridge93 wrote: »

I kinda surprised people are this impressed by Zebo chasing him down. I've heard it in a few spots. Zebo was a hell of a lot fresher, supposedly rapid, had the angle and wasn't trying to avoid numerous other players

I don't think he started 80m from the Munster tryline either.

27-12-2017 11:53am

Most back 3 players top out around 30 - 40 meters and are slowing down after that. The best 100m runners in the world only hit top speed for 50m before slowing down quite a bit for the remainder.

Larmour was 70m into a run with numerous pace changes and side steps, was carrying a ball and had played nearly a full game of rugby at that stage. I reckon I could have gotten my hands on him at the range but it doesn't matter, Zebo got him and put in a technically excellent tackle. The tackle is by a significant margin the more impressive aspect of that contact.

As for whether Larmour could have passed? Passing was a lowish risk option as was holding onto the ball but that close to the line he's as well to back himself,

errlloyd · 27-12-2017 12:13pm

Against the Dragons, Larmour made an amazing break, and passed to ROL when he probably shouldn't have. I don't think he has a selfishness problem.

alwald · 27-12-2017 12:45pm

I was hoping, midway through his run, that he won't pass the ball and will attempt to score the try himself. He's done most of the hard work and the try won't look the same if he passed the ball. Great try for Leinster and great try for him to lift his confidence.

27-12-2017 1:15pm

.ak wrote: »

and don't get me started as his playing silly buggers in every ruck.

...

This is a positive. Would you ever get a grip.

‪Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread IX: The Last Jordi [****]

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