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‪Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread IX: The Last Jordi [****]

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭FrannoFan


    durthacht wrote: »
    I'm watching the Connacht v Ulster match and very impressed with Tom Farrell. I know he was in the Leinster academy but don't remember him being close to the senior team. I suppose he would have been behind Ringrose and O'Loughlin though. Does anyone know if he was highly rated in Leinster and ever came close to a senior breakthrough there?
    Girve wasn't a fan. Made team of the 20's world cup and even then girve was reluctant to put into academy. Himself and Tom daly were a really physical pairing during that world cup and with lansdowne in AIL.
    Never really got a chance. Had a few injuries during 3rd year academy which is often a killer.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Leinster team. Half strength really and a very weak bench. JGP almost guarantees Leinster won't win.


    What is issue with JGP? I always thought he done ok.....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,914 ✭✭✭Rigor Mortis


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    What is issue with JGP? I always thought he done ok.....

    You must be new here. Let me show you around.

    JPG is the new Kane Douglas. Regardless of what he does, he can do no good.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    What is issue with JGP? I always thought he done ok.....

    You must be new here. Let me show you around.

    JPG is the new Kane Douglas. Regardless of what he does, he can do no good.

    Yeah there’s a bit of that carry on all right. He’s had a few poor games and isn’t the guy you want to rely on to manage a game from the start. So when he’s playing beside an inexperienced 10, like he was a bit last year, he can struggle somewhat. And his kicking tends to be a bit dodgy. But that aside he’s been pretty decent for us. I’d imagine McCarthy will overtake him soon enough but JGP doesn’t deserve some of the crap he gets. Now that Byrne has a bit more experience he should be fine tomorrow.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,576 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    I wouldn't say JGP is bad but there's not really any part of his game that's particularly good, is there?

    Come to think of it, you'd be hard pressed to find something McGrath excels at.


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  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 511 ✭✭✭RichieRich89


    I wouldn't say JGP is bad but there's not really any part of his game that's particularly good, is there?

    Come to think of it, you'd be hard pressed to find something McGrath excels at.

    JGP's support play when someone's made a break is top notch


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,783 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    JGP's support play when someone's made a break is top notch

    As is McGraths


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    McGraths cover defence is superb. His kicking game has developed really well. He’s got real leadership qualities, although the more they are called into action the more the rest of his game suffers. He’s deceptively strong for his size too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    JGP is a good rugby player but a mediocre (at best) scrum half.

    The fact that he looked completely disinterested at the end of last season did nothing for the perception of his abilities either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Buer wrote: »
    JGP is a good rugby player but a mediocre (at best) scrum half.

    The fact that he looked completely disinterested at the end of last season did nothing for the perception of his abilities either.

    He was at the end of 2 seasons straight to be fair to him. I just put his performances in the latter part of the season down to that. It hasn’t carried over into this season. He’s not top class, but he’s not as bad as some like to make out.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    molloyjh wrote: »
    He was at the end of 2 seasons straight to be fair to him. I just put his performances in the latter part of the season down to that. It hasn’t carried over into this season. He’s not top class, but he’s not as bad as some like to make out.

    He’s not quite Paul Marshall, that’s true. But I like the look of McCarthy and if he passes him then he may not stay on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Yep, completely agree with that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭FrannoFan


    Buer wrote: »
    JGP is a good rugby player but a mediocre (at best) scrum half.

    The fact that he looked completely disinterested at the end of last season did nothing for the perception of his abilities either.

    Gibson park is a sort of grand lad when 1st choice is away but not someone you have massive faith in when it is a big occasion. (Like rabo semi final)

    The big issue is now the requirements to have him on bench as scrum half cover and lowe won't be playing. Resentment will somehow be directed at him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Bridge93


    I think he's brilliant to come off the bench. He's such a weapon with his pace. But he's dangerously unreliable when he starts. I'd almost be leaning to starting McCarthy over him but bench JGP when McGrath plays. Could be my longing for james Lowe dictating though


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Jason Incalculable Tackle


    The coaches seem to have no real interest in McCarthy, he's getting no game time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    The coaches seem to have no real interest in McCarthy, he's getting no game time.

    It's his first year with a senior contract and we've an project player with a good bit of experience ahead of him. No real rush to push him for game time. It's not as if JGP is mopping up game time either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    molloyjh wrote: »
    He was at the end of 2 seasons straight to be fair to him. I just put his performances in the latter part of the season down to that. It hasn’t carried over into this season. He’s not top class, but he’s not as bad as some like to make out.

    As long as he doesn’t kick he is fine, he’s quick and has a good sharp pass. Decision making is poor at times though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭FrannoFan


    _Tyrrell_ wrote: »
    It's his first year with a senior contract and we've an project player with a good bit of experience ahead of him. No real rush to push him for game time. It's not as if JGP is mopping up game time either.

    The rush is we need him as a viable bench option to bring lowe into the equation. We desperately need some attacking flair in back 3. With carbery injured and Rob preferred on the big occasion anyway we could really use lowe on the wing


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭irishfan9


    FrannoFan wrote: »
    The rush is we need him as a viable bench option to bring lowe into the equation. We desperately need some attacking flair in back 3. With carbery injured and Rob preferred on the big occasion anyway we could really use lowe on the wing

    Plus JGP isnt good enough.


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,963 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    irishfan9 wrote: »
    Plus JGP isnt good enough.

    In not sure nick Mccarthy has a super xviii medal....
    Maybe he does.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭irishfan9


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    In not sure nick Mccarthy has a super xviii medal....
    Maybe he does.

    Dont think nick mccarthy has had the opportunity to sit on the bench for the hurricanes


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,963 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    irishfan9 wrote: »
    Dont think nick mccarthy has had the opportunity to sit on the bench for the hurricanes

    Not much opportunity to sit on the bench for Leinster, cos, maybe.......


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    FrannoFan wrote: »
    The rush is we need him as a viable bench option to bring lowe into the equation. We desperately need some attacking flair in back 3. With carbery injured and Rob preferred on the big occasion anyway we could really use lowe on the wing

    We managed just fine in the attacking stakes last season without Lowe. Ultimately Lowe is here to replace Isa in the back 3. But we’ve plenty of attacking options all over the park and haven’t been short of tries for the last 18 months. The need for Lowe to play stems from the fact that he looks very good and we are paying him to play.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭FrannoFan


    molloyjh wrote: »
    We managed just fine in the attacking stakes last season without Lowe. Ultimately Lowe is here to replace Isa in the back 3. But we’ve plenty of attacking options all over the park and haven’t been short of tries for the last 18 months. The need for Lowe to play stems from the fact that he looks very good and we are paying him to play.

    I disagree. I think we look very good in attack but there is another level we need to strive for. Those moments like Exeter game where carbery spark was badly missed. Lots of possession but not a lot of incision.

    We are huffing and puffing over the line when there is a more efficient way of doing it.

    We aren't a Saracens defensively so we will need to score tries.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    FrannoFan wrote: »
    I disagree. I think we look very good in attack but there is another level we need to strive for. Those moments like Exeter game where carbery spark was badly missed. Lots of possession but not a lot of incision.

    We are huffing and puffing over the line when there is a more efficient way of doing it.

    We aren't a Saracens defensively so we will need to score tries.

    Nobody has that level of incision against Exeter. Not even Saracens, who have failed to beat Exeter the last 3 times of asking.

    We’re the 4th best defence in Europe, just 10 points behind Munster who are the best. And 57 points ahead of Saracens. Given how tough our pool is that’s pretty good going. We’re second seed behind Clermont on PD. We’ve also got the best defence in the league as it stands.

    What we didn’t show in attacking flair against Exeter we did show in nous, a real edge and ability to win. That to me is far more important for the evolution of this side right now. How many Leinster sides have we seen in the past with great attacking flair and nothing to show for it at the end of the season? Even last season we were topping all sorts of tries scored stats but won nothing because, when the going got tough we struggled. And that cost us at the end of last season, despite our great attacking record. These Exeter games have shown that when the going gets tough now we have a real ability to get the result. And that will stand to us later in the season.


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,963 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    What he said above.

    What was missing last year to our excellent attacking performances was some tough grit for the hard tracks.
    The two Exeter games have showed that we are improving in that regard this season.

    Our attacking style wasn't the reason we had no silverware last season.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,504 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    Leinster really should bring out James Lowe hair mousse.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,792 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    Was nice to see ROL hit a bit of form in that game, his best of the season I'd say.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    swiwi_ wrote: »
    Leinster really should bring out James Lowe hair mousse.

    It's the new Farrah Fawcett.

    After all the negative press I thought James Gibson-Park was quality today. Unreal pace and great decision making and defence.

    He is easily, easily second choice and probably close enough to McGrath to be honest.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    Yeah JGP was really good. Even his kicking was good and it's normally brutal.

    Lowe needs some serious defensive coaching but the raw material is there I think.

    I'd like to see maybe half that team retained against Connacht, rotate again for Ulster and then see who's earned the European jersey.

    Another injury for Ryan.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    For Connacht I’d hazard a guess at:

    Byrne Cronin Bent
    Kearney Fardy
    SOB Deegan VDF

    McGrath Marsh
    Reid Ringrose
    Dave Nacewa Byrne

    Byrne, Dooley, Porter, Josh Murphy, Jordi Murphy, McCarthy, ROL, McFadden

    And then something like the below for Ulster

    McGrath Tracy Furlong
    Toner Fardy
    Leavy Conan VDF

    JGP Byrne
    Henshaw Ringrose
    Lowe Kearney Byrne

    Cronin, Byrne, Porter, Kearney, SOB, McCarthy, Marsh, Larmour


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭alwald


    This Leinster team is playing like a champion, there are games in which they have to defend in their 22/5 meters for a good portion of the game and they concede very little, there are other games where they attack well and score lots of tries.

    They alternate well between their attacking and defending phases regardless of the 15 players on the pitch which is quite amazing. The coaching staff are doing their homework on every opponent and adapt their strategy accordingly.

    I am not saying that Leinster will win any title this season, I am just saying that Leinster is one of the best team out there at the moment and they are gonna be very hard to beat/eliminate in the ECPR.

    Lowe was the worst player on the pitch today simply because 2 tries were conceded directly because of his bad positioning/reading of the game...hopefully he will improve as I was expecting more from a player of his caliber.

    Edit: Oh, and I should just add, home or away games make no difference to Leinster so far...Glasgow, Exeter and now Munster!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    molloyjh wrote: »

    And then something like the below for Ulster

    McGrath Tracy Furlong
    Toner Fardy
    Leavy Conan VDF

    JGP Byrne
    Henshaw Ringrose
    Lowe Kearney Byrne

    Cronin, Byrne, Porter, Kearney, SOB, McCarthy, Marsh, Larmour

    You can't pick all 3. :)
    Hopefully James Ryan isn't out long term, or the kolpak quota may sting.

    I think your lineup for Connacht will do well to get an LBP, even if Connacht need to rest a few.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭FrannoFan


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Nobody has that level of incision against Exeter. Not even Saracens, who have failed to beat Exeter the last 3 times of asking.

    We’re the 4th best defence in Europe, just 10 points behind Munster who are the best. And 57 points ahead of Saracens. Given how tough our pool is that’s pretty good going. We’re second seed behind Clermont on PD. We’ve also got the best defence in the league as it stands.

    What we didn’t show in attacking flair against Exeter we did show in nous, a real edge and ability to win. That to me is far more important for the evolution of this side right now. How many Leinster sides have we seen in the past with great attacking flair and nothing to show for it at the end of the season? Even last season we were topping all sorts of tries scored stats but won nothing because, when the going got tough we struggled. And that cost us at the end of last season, despite our great attacking record. These Exeter games have shown that when the going gets tough now we have a real ability to get the result. And that will stand to us later in the season.

    Your don't have to sacrifice one for the other. Clearly when I referenced Saracens I meant the 2 time European champions not the side that's lost 7 on the bounce.

    The 2 things are not mutually exclusive. We can strive to a better attacking game without sacrificing our defensive grit.

    For leinster to evolve I want us to add more in attack. We saw today what lowe brought. We should be looking to have that in Europe.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    I heard recently that Ross Byrne is going to Ulster at the end of the season. This is not a drill folks, it's apparently happening. :(


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭FrannoFan


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    I heard recently that Ross Byrne is going to Ulster at the end of the season. This is not a drill folks, it's apparently happening. :(

    He has litterally been involved in every match day squad this year. Why would he go? If Jackson gets the all clear he will just be on the bench up there.

    Not doubting your source but really makes no sense to move


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    FrannoFan wrote: »
    He has litterally been involved in every match day squad this year. Why would he go? If Jackson gets the all clear he will just be on the bench up there.

    Not doubting your source but really makes no sense to move
    I read it that the tea leaves aren't good for PJ. Either way, this is going to be a sordid affair and he may be well advised to leave for a while, even if he's found not guilty.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    I heard recently that Ross Byrne is going to Ulster at the end of the season. This is not a drill folks, it's apparently happening. :(

    What? Why would he do that? He's in fine health. Hasn't had a single injury in his pro career.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Peregrine wrote: »
    What? Why would he do that? He's in fine health. Hasn't had a single injury in his pro career.
    What's his fitness got to do with it? :confused:


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    I heard recently that Ross Byrne is going to Ulster at the end of the season. This is not a drill folks, it's apparently happening. :(

    To make way for cranberry at ten for Leinster?

    I'd send carbs down to Munster to bond with Conor instead


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭Dog Botherer


    Cranberry at ten


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    He has litterally been involved in every match day squad this year. Why would he go? If Jackson gets the all clear he will just be on the bench up there.
    Spoke with someone over Christmas involved in public prosecutions who told me the DPP will never take forward a case like this without a very high level of confidence. The fact they've dropped a charge against Olding but maintained the charges against Jackson is a statement in itself about how they see things panning out.

    If we lose Byrne it will be a massive loss. He is the long term outhalf for Leinster. I'm fully on board with that. But getting the reins at another province with some top talent is very tempting.

    I'll be gutted to see him go though. Big blow to Leinster and their long term plans.


  • Administrators Posts: 54,256 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Such a move makes absolutely no sense for Leinster. Colour me sceptical.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    awec wrote: »
    Such a move makes absolutely no sense for Leinster. Colour me sceptical.
    Why would Leinster get to dictate where he plays?


  • Administrators Posts: 54,256 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Buer wrote: »
    Why would Leinster get to dictate where he plays?

    Why would he leave? His own province need him. There’s no guarantees at this stage he’d be any better off in the pecking order in Ulster.

    A move like this would be pretty unprecedented.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Lowe was poison today, but we know he's capable of much much more so I'll give him the benefit of doubt.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    awec wrote: »
    Buer wrote: »
    Why would Leinster get to dictate where he plays?

    Why would he leave? His own province need him. There’s no guarantees at this stage he’d be any better off in the pecking order in Ulster.

    A move like this would be pretty unprecedented.

    Why wouldn't he? Promise of being first choice at a province that regularly makes the knock out stages of both tournaments and plays alongside some of the best back line talent in the country.

    Ulster have demonstrated their ambition to develop Irish talent and improve their squad by signing some serious Irish talent already for next season and they've a very strong corps of Leinster developed players already including lads Byrne has played with before.

    The fact that he'd be undisputed first choice for Ulster would almost be enough to make it a seriously tempting offer in itself though. I really hope Leinster convince him otherwise. I'd genuinely rather lose Carbery.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    .ak wrote: »
    Lowe was poison today, but we know he's capable of much much more so I'll give him the benefit of doubt.
    You're being ridiculously over the top in your criticism of him.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    .ak wrote: »
    Lowe was poison today, but we know he's capable of much much more so I'll give him the benefit of doubt.

    'Poison' is a bit strong. It was his first proper game and he looked at sea in terms of defensive positioning but there were definitely some positives. Being part of a very raw back three wouldn't have helped either I guess.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    'Poison' is a bit strong. It was his first proper game and he looked at sea in terms of defensive positioning but there were definitely some positives. Being part of a very raw back three wouldn't have helped either I guess.

    Poison is perfectly apt, directly responsible for leaking points down his channel, probably two tries he could've stopped if he defended with the team not as an individual, and don't get me started as his playing silly buggers in every ruck.


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