Will Leo be the shortest serving taoiseach in history?

Knex* · 24-11-2017 01:40PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

FF would need to be careful about making the McCabe saga an issue in an election, (if there is one). The whole mess started on their watch. SF also have a murky past when it comes to their relations with the Gardai.
None of the principle players have clean hands.

I'm positive if the timelines of who was in government was reversed, we'd still be in the same position today with a vote of no confidence and corruption on our doorstep, just with the other party's name in the crosshairs.

They are one and the same in this, such is the culture of our politics and Gardai.

WoollyRedHat · 24-11-2017 01:45PM

Rick Shaw wrote: »

Check out @oconnellhugh’;s Tweet: https://twitter.com/oconnellhugh/status/933670522847727616?s=09

Thanks have added him. Some day to retire ey....

A Little Pony · 24-11-2017 02:09PM

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Id love a general election.

Give sf a chance.

They care so much about the gardai they resort to murdering them.

Spot on. Leo eats shinners for breakfast and has my full support in this battle against the Garda murderers.

Dyr · 24-11-2017 02:12PM

Jawgap wrote: »

Unless, he's doing a "Patton" - preparing his forces once he hears the opposition, FF, have launched "Nordwind".......waiting for the call before declaring he could attack with three divisions in two days to relieve Mcauliffe Fitzgerald.

Also, I think Washington and Frederick the great demonstrated how effective a surprise winter offensive can be, even against superior forces!

One day ago you were telling us there was no chance of an offensive

You're basically Goering at this stage, meyer me ould son.

jimmycrackcorm · 24-11-2017 02:22PM

eagle eye wrote:

Why would Sinn Fein go with anybody? They are going to be a lot bigger after the next general election. The people who were holding them back will be gone. They will have a popular leader, a sympathy vote too because of the way other parties talk about them and then there is the growing bewildered section of the electorate who might be just ready to vote for them. I'm not a supporter of any party, just really an observer of how the clock is ticking and right now I think it's looking really like Sinn Fein time.

Is not just about SF and the IRA etc. SF wanted us to follow the Greeks in dealing with the EU. Mary Lou doesn't have the same draw as Gerry. SF wants to put more money into health, yet wants to tax high earning doctors and consultants when we already have difficulty recruiting empty posts.

They won't get as much support among income earners who realize that they're the ones who will end up having to pay for this populism.

Nettle Soup · 24-11-2017 02:30PM

Why do people feel so sorry for politicians having to canvass in December?
Do you know how many holidays they get?

An election campaign will certainly shorten the winter for me and I will welcome them to the door (not too many called door-to-door in our area at the last election!).

Let them get cold and wet - might give them some perspective and work ethic!

And the more the McCabe injustices get an airing in public, the more chance there will be repercussions.

The man should go for election himself but I am sure they would try and undermine that too...

Cortina_MK_IV · 24-11-2017 02:30PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Spot on. Leo eats shinners for breakfast and has my full support in this battle against the Garda murderers.

That must have sounded great in your head. You should have a t-shirt made.

Fred Swanson · 24-11-2017 02:31PM

This post has been deleted.

Jawgap · 24-11-2017 02:37PM

Bambi wrote: »

One day ago you were telling us there was no chance of an offensive

You're basically Goering at this stage, meyer me ould son.

Except the CBO didn't start until 1943, and the description of air raid sirens as "Meyer's trumpets" echoing Goering's quote (which was actually made in respect of the Ruhr and not Berlin) took hold in opening phase of the war, long before any coherent air offensive was launched.

Personally, I think we're still in the Phony War stages. Lots of posturing.....lots of 'maskirovka' - no significant action.

As one commentator has already suggested, the respective leadership off FF and FG should perhaps read the "Guns of August" over the weekend

tobsey · 24-11-2017 02:39PM

Nettle Soup wrote: »

The man should go for election himself but I am sure they would try and undermine that too...

Well he'd have to resign from the force first. I'm not sure if that requirement counts as being undermined

Muahahaha · 24-11-2017 02:41PM

ianobrien wrote: »

Ah, I think you will find he worked in St James's as a non consultant hospital doctor before going into the Dail. I know people who worked alongside him there.

Oh I know, my own sister is a consultant and worked with him in St.James too. Leo did his time as a NCHD. As soon as he had his qualification he left medicine for full time politics.

Edward M wrote: »

Can you link to that, I never heard that one.

Phoenix magazine reported at the time that when Leo applied to get on the roll of doctors that the Medical Council were less than impressed that here he was publically leaving medicine yet at the same time wanting their endorsement. The Medical Council initially refused Leo entry as they didnt want to set a precedent of allowing people with no intention of actually working as a doctor to call themselves a doctor. There was a ding dong for a few weeks and Leo threatened legal action as nothing in rule book explicitly prevented someone leaving medicine from actually becoming a doctor. Medical Council legal advice was to back down so they did and Leo got his Dr. prefix.

Among the consultants I know Leo calling himself a doctor is a bit of a running joke and they mockingly refer to him as Dr.Leo :rolleyes:

I am not disputing his qualification as a doctor. But being an actual doctor is a highly skilled job that requires you to be actually practicing constantly to improve your skills. All consultants have to engage with continuing professional development for a minimum of 50 hours every year which Leo does not do, therefore he cannot actually practice as a doctor.

BillyBobBS · 24-11-2017 02:46PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Iv'e actually talked to a lot of people recently who are telling me now that Adams is on his way out they will consider giving SF a vote. I'd say he's been holding them back of recent tbh.

BillyBobBS · 24-11-2017 02:48PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Spot on. Leo eats shinners for breakfast and has my full support in this battle against the Garda murderers.

2/10 Must try harder.

Fred Swanson · 24-11-2017 02:50PM

This post has been deleted.

Henry Ford III · 24-11-2017 02:57PM

CJH was shorter.

MadYaker · 24-11-2017 02:58PM

Stephen Donnelly just gave a fairly damning description of events on Newstalk. The way he put it the justice ministers position is clearly untenable. You'd wonder why Leo is allowing this to snowball instead of just demanding her resignation?

Nettle Soup · 24-11-2017 02:59PM

Stephen Donnelly, the traitor, was actually excellent just now on Newstalk.

He read out the email and went thru it paragraph by paragraph. It is clear Fitzgerald had significant detail on the fraudulent allegation the Gardai legal team were going to use against McCabe to smear him. And she would have read that the commissioner was endorsing the smear.

And she did nothing. She is hiding behind the fact that she cant decide legal strategy but she could have picked up the phone to O'Sullivan.

The email is worse than I thought.

She has to go. There is no option.

Nettle Soup · 24-11-2017 03:01PM

MadYaker wrote: »

Stephen Donnelly just gave a fairly damning description of events on Newstalk. The way he put the justin ministers position is clearly untenable. You'd why Leo is alowing this to snowball instead of just demanding her resignation?

He was excellent alright. He summarised the events very well.

It really is damning.

I am 100% convinced she will resign now.

Candamir · 24-11-2017 03:01PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Oh I know, my own sister is a consultant and worked with him in St.James too. Leo did his time as a NCHD. As soon as he had his qualification he left medicine for full time politics.

Phoenix magazine reported at the time that when Leo applied to get on the roll of doctors that the Medical Council were less than impressed that here he was publically leaving medicine yet at the same time wanting their endorsement. The Medical Council initially refused Leo entry as they didnt want to set a precedent of allowing people with no intention of actually working as a doctor to call themselves a doctor. There was a ding dong for a few weeks and Leo threatened legal action as nothing in rule book explicitly prevented someone leaving medicine from actually becoming a doctor. Medical Council legal advice was to back down so they did and Leo got his Dr. prefix.

Among the consultants I know Leo calling himself a doctor is a bit of a running joke and they mockingly refer to him as Dr.Leo :rolleyes:

I am not disputing his qualification as a doctor. But being an actual doctor is a highly skilled job that requires you to be actually practicing constantly to improve your skills. All consultants have to engage with continuing professional development for a minimum of 50 hours every year which Leo does not do, therefore he cannot actually practice as a doctor.

I think you (or maybe Phoenix, or your memory of Phoenix) are a little confused on this one. Leo graduated in medicine and was entitled to call himself a doctor the moment he got his medical degree. He worked as an ‘actual, real doctor’, was on the medical register (is this what you mean by ‘roll of doctors’?) with no opposition from the medical council. And none of the consultants I know consider him a running joke. He no longer practices as a doctor, but is every bit as entitled as every other medical graduate, practicing, retired or otherwise to call himself doctor if he so wishes. As an aside, if he wished to resume practicing as a doctor, he could do so by registering again with the medical council.

Strazdas · 24-11-2017 03:04PM

I can't see the government falling over something as trivial as whether the Tanaiste keeps her job or not. She's not exactly a key figure in Irish politics and if there was to be a general election, you would imagine it would have to be over a much bigger crisis, such as Varadkar himself being heavily involved in something dodgy.

Nettle Soup · 24-11-2017 03:06PM

Strazdas wrote: »

I can't see the government falling over something as trivial as whether the Tanaiste keeps her job or not. She's not exactly a key figure in Irish politics and if there was to be a general election, you would imagine it would have to be over a much bigger crisis, such as Varadkar himself being heavily involved in something dodgy.

Governments have fallen for a lot less.

As Donnelly said on Newstalk;

- If this was the USA, she would have resigned (or get fired) within 15 minutes of the story breaking.
- If this was the UK, she would have resigned the next day.

Christy42 · 24-11-2017 03:06PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Oh I know, my own sister is a consultant and worked with him in St.James too. Leo did his time as a NCHD. As soon as he had his qualification he left medicine for full time politics.

Phoenix magazine reported at the time that when Leo applied to get on the roll of doctors that the Medical Council were less than impressed that here he was publically leaving medicine yet at the same time wanting their endorsement. The Medical Council initially refused Leo entry as they didnt want to set a precedent of allowing people with no intention of actually working as a doctor to call themselves a doctor. There was a ding dong for a few weeks and Leo threatened legal action as nothing in rule book explicitly prevented someone leaving medicine from actually becoming a doctor. Medical Council legal advice was to back down so they did and Leo got his Dr. prefix.

Among the consultants I know Leo calling himself a doctor is a bit of a running joke and they mockingly refer to him as Dr.Leo :rolleyes:

I am not disputing his qualification as a doctor. But being an actual doctor is a highly skilled job that requires you to be actually practicing constantly to improve your skills. All consultants have to engage with continuing professional development for a minimum of 50 hours every year which Leo does not do, therefore he cannot actually practice as a doctor.

Doctor should just be the qualification. I see no reason for it to imply the job (in fact doctor does not imply medical doctor even so I don't see the issue). He is not a medical doctor by trade certainly and I would not let him count as a practising doctor but the title is somewhat different. Any other field gives you the title for the relevant qualification, I fail to see why medicine is any better.

He has made a dogs dinner of this issue though. She should have been let go as an election is a bad thing right now Leo has to take the relevant steps. Having said that an election is not the end of the world. The big issue of the day is brexit and the stance there will not change so in that regard the Irish government is on strong ground whatever the English media try and stir up.

Our position on Brexit is stable, merely the person reporting it might change.

MadYaker · 24-11-2017 03:07PM

She has shown to be at best incopetent or at worst dishonest in her handling of this information.

pumpkin4life · 24-11-2017 03:08PM

Strazdas wrote: »

I can't see the government falling over something as trivial as whether the Tanaiste keeps her job or not. She's not exactly a key figure in Irish politics and if there was to be a general election, you would imagine it would have to be over a much bigger crisis, such as Varadkar himself being heavily involved in something dodgy.

Varadker is a weak leader who thinks Ranelagh is the same as the rest of Ireland; incapable of seeing the future economic, social and demographic changes that Ireland faces and that ain't good for a head lad. Under his leadership the party will continue to decline and fall in a hilarious fashion.

Might as well get it all going now in all honesty.

Strazdas · 24-11-2017 03:10PM

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Governments have fallen for a lot less.

As Donnelly said on Newstalk;

- If this was the USA, she would have resigned (or get fired) within 15 minutes of the story breaking.
- If this was the UK, she would have resigned the next day.

In theory yes, but the obvious solution would be for Fitzgerald to go. The government falling and a general election held over a fairly inconsequential political figure and someone whose career is winding down would be crazy stuff.

smurgen · 24-11-2017 03:10PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Spot on. Leo eats shinners for breakfast and has my full support in this battle against the Garda murderers.

Is this this the same Leo that expressed faith in someone who facilited false accusations of child abuse against a garda member?

Nettle Soup · 24-11-2017 03:11PM

Strazdas wrote: »

In theory yes, but the obvious solution would be for Fitzgerald to go. The government falling and a general election held over a fairly inconsequential political figure and someone whose career is winding down would be crazy stuff.

In the context of what the state has already done to McCabe, I do not agree.

She was the Justice minister and is now Tanaiste, hardly inconsequential!

Flanagan should go too.

McMurphy · 24-11-2017 03:11PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I thought the general consensus was that 'he was holding them back'

Now that he's leaving they are a spent force?

Nettle Soup · 24-11-2017 03:14PM

Rick Shaw wrote: »

I thought the general consensus was that 'he was holding them back'

Now that he's leaving they are a spent force?

I think Fred is wrong.

I have never voted SF and I would never vote for a SF led by Gerry.

However if Mary Lou was leader, it would certainly be an option, depending on the candidate and policies of course.

Strazdas · 24-11-2017 03:16PM

Nettle Soup wrote: »

In the context of what the state has already done to McCabe, I do not agree.

She was the Justice minister and is now Tanaiste, hardly inconsequential!

Flanagan should go too.

By all means, she should be fired or resign. I don't she's worth the holding of a general election though - it's not as if she became the current Taoiseach after being Minister for Justice or something.

Will Leo be the shortest serving taoiseach in history?

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