The 2017 In Between Grand Slam Thread

Rjd2 · 14-11-2017 9:45pm

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/nov/15/i-dont-want-pity-jelena-dokic-sidesteps-blame-game-to-find-own-voice

****ing hell. I was only a wee goson for Dokic in her pomp, but while it was obvious her Dad was a dick, did not think he was this awful.:(

Floppybits · 15-11-2017 10:45am

MrKingsley wrote: »

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Nadal was swinging away freely to shorten the points though, top players can be very dangerous in that mode. Three of the match points were saved with winners.

Disappointing that Fed won't get the opportunity to close the H2H further!

Nadal played the match points well but at 15-40 goffin had him on the ropes, got a short ball to his forehand and put a nothing shot back in play that Nadal punished.

That to me was a perfect example as to why we havent seen 1/2 of the 'younger' players win a GS or get to the top of the rankings. For the most part they wait for a mistake from the other side and dont take the initiative when the opportunity is there

Unfortunately that's the way players are coached nowadays or maybe I should say drilled. I think it is lazy coaching, yes you need to be able stay in rallies but players are not being shown how to hit winners or even how to play approach shots. Its all about putting the ball back in the court and forcing your opponent to make the mistake. Most younger players as well hate playing doubles because they don't know how to play at the net.

jr86 · 17-11-2017 10:28am

What a few weeks this has been for Sock. Nothing to lose now in the semi. Would be superb if this was a springboard for a challenge at slams next year. The game is crying out for challengers. Maybe these year end events might bring something positive this year

I don't know what to make of Zverev yet. Had Nadal on the rack at Australia until he tired in the 5th, but it's a match he should have won. Shouldn't be losing to Verdasco at majors at this stage, and he was very disappointing against a half-fit Raonic at Wimbledon. He's had a very poor end to the season too.

But two Masters titles and has shown he's well able to go toe to toe with the bigger players. Shows no fear either. Big off season for him

It's funny, we've just had the worst standard year of Mens Tennis in over a decade and the overall narrative seems to be it's "refreshing" when Federer and Nadal are dominating in the twilight of their careers, yet when Djokovic (playing at a higher level then than these two now) beats all round him the last few seasons, it's "bad for the game"?

mickmackey1 · 17-11-2017 12:37pm

jr86 wrote: »

It's funny, we've just had the worst standard year of Mens Tennis in over a decade and the overall narrative seems to be it's "refreshing" when Federer and Nadal are dominating in the twilight of their careers, yet when Djokovic (playing at a higher level then than these two now) beats all round him the last few seasons, it's "bad for the game"?

It's all relative though; Fedal may be past their peak but at their peak they were arguably the two best ever. The way they played this year, particularly at Wimbledon and RG, would still have been good enough to beat 99% of players from any era.

Christy42 · 17-11-2017 12:39pm

jr86 wrote: »

What a few weeks this has been for Sock. Nothing to lose now in the semi. Would be superb if this was a springboard for a challenge at slams next year. The game is crying out for challengers. Maybe these year end events might bring something positive this year

I don't know what to make of Zverev yet. Had Nadal on the rack at Australia until he tired in the 5th, but it's a match he should have won. Shouldn't be losing to Verdasco at majors at this stage, and he was very disappointing against a half-fit Raonic at Wimbledon. He's had a very poor end to the season too.

But two Masters titles and has shown he's well able to go toe to toe with the bigger players. Shows no fear either. Big off season for him

It's funny, we've just had the worst standard year of Mens Tennis in over a decade and the overall narrative seems to be it's "refreshing" when Federer and Nadal are dominating in the twilight of their careers, yet when Djokovic (playing at a higher level then than these two now) beats all round him the last few seasons, it's "bad for the game"?

Nostalgia maybe? Both were also more popular than Djok so there is going to be a lot of subjectivity there.

jr86 · 17-11-2017 1:44pm

It's a rhetorical question, the answer is clear but it just makes me laugh overall.

Fair enough, I've never personally been one to succumb to the love-in or adulation that is so universally given to Fedal (ok, Federer in particular, Nadal still has his detractors), even if I do completely respect and admire their achievements

I'm no great fan of Djokovic but his dominance the last few years wasn't given near enough credit, and probably never will be when he retires

dominatinMC · 17-11-2017 2:06pm

jr86 wrote: »

It's a rhetorical question, the answer is clear but it just makes me laugh overall.

Fair enough, I've never personally been one to succumb to the love-in or adulation that is so universally given to Fedal (ok, Federer in particular, Nadal still has his detractors), even if I do completely respect and admire their achievements

I'm no great fan of Djokovic but his dominance the last few years wasn't given near enough credit, and probably never will be when he retires

Good point in relation to Djokovic. It's hard to pinpoint it but, as hard as he tries, he has never come close to the popularity of Fedal. Even the portmanteau which is Fedal says it all! The two guys have defined this era of tennis. Notwithstanding their obvious talent and dominance on the court, I believe their enduring popularity has a lot to do with timing. In many ways, it was a perfect storm when Nadal came on the scene and usurped Feds dominance. Up until then, Fed more-or-less had a monopoly on mens tennis. He was the all-conquering, stylistic and effortless player, who blew his opponents away. Then Nadal came on the scene and was, in many ways, the complete opposite to Fed - brute force, will to win, completely different playing style (that's not to say he isn't unbelievably skilled in his own way). But that contrasting style made for a perfect narrative, which the media jumped on. The culmination of this narrative was Wimbledon 08, with what many regard as the greatest game of all time - further cementing their legacy in the sport. I guess Djokovic arrived a few years too late, and could be thought of as somewhat of a third wheel in the Fedal duopoly.

jr86 · 17-11-2017 2:19pm

Djokovic had the makings of a bit of a villain of sorts in his early career. Throwing tantrums, dubiously retiring from matches. He's gone and turned into an insincere PR robot over the years, which I personally feel is a bit of a shame, as the game could do with colourful characters (though there's a fine line between that and being a knob - take note Kyrgios)

dominatinMC · 17-11-2017 2:26pm

jr86 wrote: »

Djokovic had the makings of a bit of a villain of sorts in his early career. Throwing tantrums, dubiously retiring from matches. He's gone and turned into an insincere PR robot over the years, which I personally feel is a bit of a shame, as the game could do with colourful characters (though there's a fine line between that and being a knob - take note Kyrgios)

I know what you mean, Djokovic probably could have been the stereotypical "cold assassin" from the war-torn East. Not to be ultimately.

yerwanthere123 · 17-11-2017 6:19pm

Djokovic's desperation to be loved doesn't help him either. It's so transparent, and that ridiculous celebration he's started doing with the ball kids this year is so sad.

jr86 · 18-11-2017 5:01pm

Blimey, terrific show from Goffin. Federer well and truly outclassed out there - the only time all year

A real pity DG got injured at the French, he went toe to toe with Rafa on clay too. Prevented him potentially winning or coming close to winning a Masters and heavily contending at the USO

Definitely one to look out for in 2018. Serve has turned into a weapon, super off both wings and as comfortable as the aggressor as he is defensively. Good attitude too

Good to see we'll have a new and young WTF winner regardless

jr86 · 18-11-2017 5:05pm

Federer looked every bit the 36 YO out there

Has looked much more human overall since Wimbledon (although he's still had great performances but much more isolated)

Expecting a much more modest season in 2018

Tbh I'm glad he was beaten this week he's been off the pace since match 1 and it shows the younger players are at least up to the task

Chivito550 · 18-11-2017 5:26pm

Watching Denis Shapovalov being interviewed on BBC. Speaks very well for an 18 year old. Best of luck to him. Hope he keeps progressing.

Floppybits · 20-11-2017 10:37am

Jana Novatana has passed away aged 49. Very sad.

https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/932533998064152577

dominatinMC · 20-11-2017 11:44am

Delighted to see Dimitrov make something of a breakthrough this year, with a M1000 and the ATP Final title to his name. For so long, he was the nearly man, great to see that potential being fulfilled. Hopefully, he can build on this in 2018 and win a GS (his match with Nadal at the AO last year was the best match of the year imo, love to see him win Oz - think it suits his game).

yerwanthere123 · 21-11-2017 5:40pm

Catching up..

Very pleased for Dimitrov, he's come a long way since he snubbed the alternate spot a few years back

Yes he got an extraordinarily easy route to the title, but he can only beat who's in front of him, and he went 5-0. Not sure what this means for his long-term prospects, but it'll be great for the confidence nonetheless.

Terrible news about Jana Novotna. She was before my time, but obviously I know of her quite well. Extremely sad to go so young, to not even make her 50th birthday is incredibly sad. With her Wimbledon victory and doubles prowess she's left a nice legacy and will be remembered forever. Love reading all the tributes that have been left to her, particularly by the Czech players. She was obviously a lovely woman.

Big news announced today, grand slams will be going back to 16 seeds only from 2019!

https://twitter.com/josemorgado/status/932988435484303360/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.digitalspy.com%2Fdiscussion%2F2165860%2Fthe-tennis-thread-part-31%2Fp1471

RosyLily · 21-11-2017 7:24pm

For the Slams, warm-up time is strictly enforced and withdrawals before 1st round match will receive 50% prize money. Australian Open is also introducing a 25-second shot clock.

Really interested to see if these changes stick, particularly the shot clock.

NoviGlitzko · 21-11-2017 9:09pm

I'd love to see the shot clock come in. Toni Nadal will freak out.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 21-11-2017 11:17pm

NoviGlitzko wrote: »

I'd love to see the shot clock come in. Toni Nadal will freak out.

Toni isn't coaching anymore, is he?

NoviGlitzko · 22-11-2017 9:41am

That's right I forgot. The Nadal camp will definitely complain about this before the tournament starts if they have the balls to stick with it.

jr86 · 22-11-2017 10:34am

dominatinMC wrote: »

Delighted to see Dimitrov make something of a breakthrough this year, with a M1000 and the ATP Final title to his name. For so long, he was the nearly man, great to see that potential being fulfilled. Hopefully, he can build on this in 2018 and win a GS (his match with Nadal at the AO last year was the best match of the year imo, love to see him win Oz - think it suits his game).

Yeah as weird and uninspiring a year as it has been for Men's tennis we still had 3 new Masters Champions and a new WTF Champion, so there's a large positive there

Dimitrov's issues will always be with playing the top players though but at least this should be a major confidence boost indeed

I thought Goffin played by far the better tennis though, and I honestly think he's more likely a slam winner than GD.

Beating Nadal and Federer might be more beneficial than winning it the way GD did too

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Big news announced today, grand slams will be going back to 16 seeds only from 2019!

https://twitter.com/josemorgado/status/932988435484303360/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.digitalspy.com%2Fdiscussion%2F2165860%2Fthe-tennis-thread-part-31%2Fp1471

Super! Not at all before time. 16 seeds is more than enough and should ensure much more competitive early round matches as well as less tanks all round on tour

RosyLily wrote: »

For the Slams, warm-up time is strictly enforced and withdrawals before 1st round match will receive 50% prize money. Australian Open is also introducing a 25-second shot clock.

Really interested to see if these changes stick, particularly the shot clock.

Can't see that shot clock lasting if implemented tbh, so wouldn't overly worry about that

Warm-ups are a farce though and badly need reviewing so good to see. The best ever is a rain delay lasting a couple of minutes and they come out to do a lengthy warm-up again with more showers imminent. Laughable

I know it'll probably never happen in my lifetime but the AO badly needs to be moved in the calendar also

Docking prize money is fine but is completely ignoring the elephant in the room. The major issue in first round slam matches are retirements mid-match as well as blatant tanks. Very few actually withdraw completely.

Rob2D · 22-11-2017 1:06pm

jr86 wrote: »

Warm-ups are a farce though and badly need reviewing so good to see. The best ever is a rain delay lasting a couple of minutes and they come out to do a lengthy warm-up again with more showers imminent. Laughable

But you need a decent warm up though. Having sat out plenty of showers myself, I know that stepping back on court and jumping right back into a tournament match is a bad bad idea.

jr86 · 22-11-2017 5:18pm

Rob2D wrote: »

But you need a decent warm up though. Having sat out plenty of showers myself, I know that stepping back on court and jumping right back into a tournament match is a bad bad idea.

The "warm up" on court - which I am referring to - is just players getting a feel for the ball though, and going through a bizarrely long process of serving, overheads etc. It's bad enough before a match - even more laughable during a match, when they've been off court ten minutes

The actual necessary stretching, flexibility, getting the blood flowing etc. - which I assume you are referring to - will all be done off court

lostcat · 22-11-2017 7:27pm

NoviGlitzko wrote: »

That's right I forgot. The Nadal camp will definitely complain about this before the tournament starts if they have the balls to stick with it.

cant Nadal just claim to have a touch of OCD or whatever and that's its discrimination etc?

on the WFT and future prospects, I cant see Goffin winning a slam, he does a lot of stuff quite well and has a nice balanced game, but he reminds me of a Ferrer....no weapon of mass destruction

Dimitrov has more going for him on that front.

in other news, it cant be good news for Murray that Lendl has left the camp(again), I really hope his injury is clearing up properly.

it will be interesting to see who Djokovic announces as his full time mindfulness partner coach for next year, Agassi has been talking him up but he will only be with him part time

yerwanthere123 · 22-11-2017 7:43pm

jr86 wrote: »

Yeah as weird and uninspiring a year as it has been for Men's tennis we still had 3 new Masters Champions and a new WTF Champion, so there's a large positive there

Dimitrov's issues will always be with playing the top players though but at least this should be a major confidence boost indeed

I thought Goffin played by far the better tennis though, and I honestly think he's more likely a slam winner than GD.

Beating Nadal and Federer might be more beneficial than winning it the way GD did too

Super! Not at all before time. 16 seeds is more than enough and should ensure much more competitive early round matches as well as less tanks all round on tour

Can't see that shot clock lasting if implemented tbh, so wouldn't overly worry about that

Warm-ups are a farce though and badly need reviewing so good to see. The best ever is a rain delay lasting a couple of minutes and they come out to do a lengthy warm-up again with more showers imminent. Laughable

I know it'll probably never happen in my lifetime but the AO badly needs to be moved in the calendar also

Docking prize money is fine but is completely ignoring the elephant in the room. The major issue in first round slam matches are retirements mid-match as well as blatant tanks. Very few actually withdraw completely.

Sixteen seeds only is great for the ATP, but not so for the WTA. WTA are already shaky enough anyway with best of 3 set matches. With the current rankings and the new system we could have matches like Wozniacki-Cibulkova, Halep-Kerber, Venus-Kvitova or Muguruza-Radwanska in the very first round, really not sure it's needed.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 22-11-2017 7:46pm

lostcat wrote: »

it will be interesting to see who Djokovic announces as his full time mindfulness partner coach for next year, Agassi has been talking him up but he will only be with him part time

Stepanek.

NoviGlitzko · 22-11-2017 11:14pm

The Stepanek apointment is bizarre, but interesting. What was Nole's thought process behind it one wonders.

RosyLily wrote: »

For the Slams, warm-up time is strictly enforced and withdrawals before 1st round match will receive 50% prize money.

Dmitri Tursonov is an absolute vulture for this, or at least the collecting pay check side of things. For the last two years he's only entered GS matches for the money. It's frustrating. The above is long overdue.

jr86 · 22-11-2017 11:22pm

NoviGlitzko wrote: »

The Stepanek apointment is bizarre, but interesting. What was Nole's thought process behind it one wonders.

Dmitri Tursonov is an absolute vulture for this, or at least the collecting pay check side of things. For the last two years he's only entered GS matches for the money. It's frustrating. The above is long overdue.

Golubev another

Wimbledon is particularly farcical given the prize money they offer first round losers

jr86 · 22-11-2017 11:24pm

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Sixteen seeds only is great for the ATP, but not so for the WTA. WTA are already shaky enough anyway with best of 3 set matches. With the current rankings and the new system we could have matches like Wozniacki-Cibulkova, Halep-Kerber, Venus-Kvitova or Muguruza-Radwanska in the very first round, really not sure it's needed.

Yeah id love to see best of 5 in women's. Even from quarters onwards?

Johnmb · 23-11-2017 1:02pm

jr86 wrote: »

Docking prize money is fine but is completely ignoring the elephant in the room. The major issue in first round slam matches are retirements mid-match as well as blatant tanks. Very few actually withdraw completely.

That's what the rule addresses. If you pull out onsite before the match due to injury, you'll get half the prize money (you're not docked it, as things stand you'd get nothing for pulling out), and the alternate who steps in will get half (plus the full amount for any matches won). If you retire during the first match, or are deemed to have not tried hard enough (i.e. a blatant tank) you will be docked the full amount of the prize money and get nothing.

The 2017 In Between Grand Slam Thread

Comments