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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

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  • #4532
    Granny15
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭Granny15


    Mod: Utter rubbish and unfounded allegations about a person's mental health removed.


  • #4533
    Padraig121
    Site Banned Posts: 69 ✭✭Padraig121


    Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »
    Ok. Hopefully this will be clear:

    There are people who, amongst other things, count the number of kicks a given team makes in an international rugby game.
    You can find these stats on various websites.
    These stats do not back up any sort of 'hoofball' argument, you're making it up.

    Please let me know if anything needs clarification.

    All kicks are not what I'm talking about. I'm hardly saying Ireland should never clear the ball!


  • #4534
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 43,246 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    phog wrote: »
    It may have been asked/answered already, apologies if it was but was CJ the first "project" player to captain Ireland?

    probably...

    Dion O Cuinneagain captained ireland back in 95, though he qualified through his dad.


  • #4535
    Padraig121
    Site Banned Posts: 69 ✭✭Padraig121


    Look, people are allowed to have a different opinion than you. It's clear that we play a game plan where Murray or Sexton kick it as high as they can and we compete for it in the air. This happens often, it is not our only attacking option but it is the main one. I do not think this will work in the world cup 2019. I think the better teams will shut us down with ease and open us up with more intelligent attacking play. Others disagree with me. We'll just have to wait and see!


  • #4536
    Rigor Mortis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,914 ✭✭✭Rigor Mortis


    Padraig121 wrote: »
    We are a good team, I'm talking about becoming the best. We can't with the tactics currently employed in my opinion!

    There is one team in the world better than us currently.

    Becoming better than NZ in any sustainable way will require a root and branch change in how children are introduced to and coached rugby. It wont be solved at national team level.


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  • #4537
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,728 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Padraig121 wrote: »
    People are mixing up all types of kicking that happens in a match with the hoofball I'm talking about. What I'm saying is that these tactics won't work in the world cup. Others think differently so we'll just have to wait and see.
    Those statistics are for kicks from hand. What do you think they are?


  • #4538
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Padraig121 wrote: »
    Look, people are allowed to have a different opinion than you. It's clear that we play a game plan where Murray or Sexton kick it as high as they can and we compete for it in the air. This happens often, it is not our only attacking option but it is the main one. I do not think this will work in the world cup 2019. I think the better teams will shut us down with ease and open us up with more intelligent attacking play. Others disagree with me. We'll just have to wait and see!


    But in the last two 6n 4 teams kicked more then us.


    Also in the two HC Leinster won with Joe, they kicked 34 times in total in the two finals. The opposition for those two finals kicked the ball 34 times. Leinster scored 75 points and conceded 36.


  • #4539
    Malcolm Echoing Volt
    Posts: 13,106 ✭✭✭✭ Malcolm Echoing Volt


    Padraig121 wrote: »
    All kicks are not what I'm talking about. I'm hardly saying Ireland should never clear the ball!

    Ok so we've established that Ireland kick about the same number of times as everyone else.

    Do you think we clear the ball fewer times than everyone else?


  • #4540
    Padraig121
    Site Banned Posts: 69 ✭✭Padraig121


    Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »
    Ok so we've established that Ireland kick about the same number of times as everyone else.

    Do you think we clear the ball fewer times than everyone else?

    Hoofball/garryowen, whatever you want to call it, we do that more than most and it won't be successful when it comes to the world cup. That's my opinion, others disagree.


  • #4541
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Padraig121 wrote: »
    Hoofball/garryowen, whatever you want to call it, we do that more than most and it won't be successful when it comes to the world cup. That's my opinion, others disagree.

    Have you got any statistics to prove that we do it more? Or are you just eyeballing this?

    Also, if we do it more, do you have anything that proves it's to our detriment?


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  • #4542
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,728 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Padraig121 wrote: »
    Hoofball/garryowen, whatever you want to call it, we do that more than most and it won't be successful when it comes to the world cup. That's my opinion, others disagree.
    It was succesful against NZ. That's a direct contradiction of what you're saying.


  • #4543
    Padraig121
    Site Banned Posts: 69 ✭✭Padraig121


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Have you got any statistics to prove that we do it more? Or are you just eyeballing this?

    Also, if we do it more, do you have anything that proves it's to our detriment?

    I'm going by what I see yes but if anyone has stats to say we don't I'd be very surprised. Northern hemisphere in general use the garryowen too much, it's not only us but we're aiming to be the best!


  • #4544
    Clegg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,810 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    It's gas, but its funnier the more you think about it. His coaches at the time he came through were Michael Cheika for Leinster and Declan Kidney for Ireland (techncially Michael Bradley gave him his Irish debut).

    Can you imagine Cheiks or Kidney wrapped up at home in their blankets on the coach being abused online and then selecting Rob Kearney because they were being forced to by the online brigade. And then the severe amounts of fear causing them to call up Ian McGeechan to make sure Kearney was included in the Lions squad.

    Kearney in 06/07 was one of the most exciting young prospects around. Himself and Fitz were the Ringrose/Larmour of their generation. There was a massive buzz of expectation around him. Was a great stepper and had a burst of acceleration. Throwing him into the side at a young age was the right idea. And he kept developing into an all round great player. Lest we forget he was voted European Player of the Year in 2012. He's more solid than exciting these days though.


  • #4545
    connachta
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,981 ✭✭✭connachta


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Padraig121 wrote: »
    Hoofball/garryowen, whatever you want to call it, we do that more than most and it won't be successful when it comes to the world cup. That's my opinion, others disagree.
    It was succesful against NZ. That's a direct contradiction of what you're saying.
    Once. And it wasn't in RWC vs Wales and Argentina (expensive teams who counter-attack)


  • #4546
    Padraig121
    Site Banned Posts: 69 ✭✭Padraig121


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    It was succesful against NZ. That's a direct contradiction of what you're saying.

    No it's not. The world cup is very different to friendly matches!


  • #4547
    stephen_n
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Padraig121 wrote: »
    Leinsters main tactic was not the garryowen under Schmidt. Ireland's main game plan is the garryowen. This is undeniable.

    No it's not, there I denied it. Since you don't require facts to back up your points, neither do I, therefore that's the end of the discussion.

    Can't find the stats but they were published on here last year, Ireland kicked less that England, Scotland or Wales. Someone might find them.

    This is from an article in the Irish Times on March 9th
    "In their three matches to date, wins over Italy and France following an opening weekend defeat to Scotland, the Irish teams has scored more tries (13), made the most carries (532), more clean breaks (33), the most passes (694), won the most rucks (414), most metres gained (1,559), defenders beaten (84) and won more lineouts (42) than any other participants."

    Now if we are kicking the ball away all the time, how did we manage that?


  • #4548
    aloooof
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,742 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    connachta wrote: »
    Once. And it wasn't in RWC vs Wales and Argentina (expensive teams who counter-attack)

    Wales 2011 were by no means an expansive team. Just look at their midfield.


  • #4549
    Padraig121
    Site Banned Posts: 69 ✭✭Padraig121


    This has gone on too long, I've made my point. I just hope we see more developments on the game plan, we need it in my opinion. Of course I could be wrong and I hope I am but I wasn't wrong last world cup and unfortunately I don't think i will be for the 2019 edition.


  • #4550
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Padraig121 wrote: »
    This has gone on too long, I've made my point. I just hope we see more developments on the game plan, we need it in my opinion. Of course I could be wrong and I hope I am but I wasn't wrong last world cup and unfortunately I don't think i will be for the 2019 edition.

    Really? Wow! What was your forum name at the time?


  • #4551
    Padraig121
    Site Banned Posts: 69 ✭✭Padraig121


    Before I go, can people remember the difference between all kicks and the hoofball I'm referring to? Thanks. :)


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  • #4552
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,728 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Padraig121 wrote: »
    No it's not. The world cup is very different to friendly matches!
    Ah stop. These are internnational capped test matches. There was a record on the line for NZ and one on the line for us. If anything it was more intesnse than a RWC match since our record has us only getting to quarter finals.


  • #4553
    Padraig121
    Site Banned Posts: 69 ✭✭Padraig121


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Really? Wow! What was your forum name at the time?

    There's more to life than this forum. :)


  • #4554
    Padraig121
    Site Banned Posts: 69 ✭✭Padraig121


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Ah stop. These are internnational capped test matches. There was a record on the line for NZ and one on the line for us. If anything it was more intesnse than a RWC match since our record has us only getting to quarter finals.

    A friendly match in Chicago more important than a world cup match? Ah now.


  • #4555
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,728 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Padraig121 wrote: »
    A friendly match in Chicago more important than a world cup match? Ah now.
    Well since at least two of the RWC matches are against inferior opposition, yes. This was against the number one side in the world who haven't been off the top spot for decades and who were on a record breaking run of wins. Who we had never beaten and were in no hurry to end that record.


  • #4556
    Padraig121
    Site Banned Posts: 69 ✭✭Padraig121


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Well since at least two of the RWC matches are against inferior opposition, yes. This was against the number one side in the world who haven't been off the top spot for decades and who were on a record breaking run of wins. Who we had never beaten and were in no hurry to end that record.

    A great win no doubt but it was a friendly, we can't forget that. A world cup quarter final is far bigger, let's get serious here.


  • #4557
    aloooof
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,742 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Padraig121 wrote: »
    No it's not. The world cup is very different to friendly matches!
    Padraig121 wrote: »
    A friendly match in Chicago more important than a world cup match? Ah now.
    Padraig121 wrote: »
    A great win no doubt but it was a friendly, we can't forget that. A world cup quarter final is far bigger, let's get serious here.

    The game is up everyone, no need to keep replying.


  • #4558
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Padraig121 wrote: »
    A great win no doubt but it was a friendly, we can't forget that. A world cup quarter final is far bigger, let's get serious here.

    There are no friendlies in rugby. Only test matches.


  • #4559
    Malcolm Echoing Volt
    Posts: 13,106 ✭✭✭✭ Malcolm Echoing Volt


    When you see people talking about friendlies you know they haven't a rashers. Stop responding.


  • #4560
    Padraig121
    Site Banned Posts: 69 ✭✭Padraig121


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Well since at least two of the RWC matches are against inferior opposition, yes. This was against the number one side in the world who haven't been off the top spot for decades and who were on a record breaking run of wins. Who we had never beaten and were in no hurry to end that record.

    Ireland lost to Argentina at the 2007 world cup, between then and the last world cup we beat them in every friendly match, sometimes smashed them. Then at the world cup 2015, Argentina 43 Ireland 20. Which was more important? All the times we beat them between world cups or the times they beat us at world cups?


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  • #4561
    Padraig121
    Site Banned Posts: 69 ✭✭Padraig121


    Lads, they are friendlies. The results mean nothing at the end of the day. Of course no one wants to lose but tournament matches are what counts.


This discussion has been closed.
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