Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781

prawnsambo · 14-11-2017 06:30PM

I warned him not to read that article in the Indo.

Bazzo · 14-11-2017 06:31PM

Former Former wrote: »

Hang on.

A young fringe player, with (I presume) aspirations to get involved in the national set-up again, goes on holiday to Australia at the very time he's most likely to get a call??

He must have been told he wasn't in the frame.

No offense but you've completely pulled that out of your arse.

connachta · 14-11-2017 06:32PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

I warned him not to read that article in the Indo.

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/tiernan-ohalloran-joe-schmidt-141443
That's better reading, some modesty in it

prawnsambo · 14-11-2017 06:34PM

connachta wrote: »

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/tiernan-ohalloran-joe-schmidt-141443
That's better reading, some modesty in it

I wouldn't touch that website with yours.

connachta · 14-11-2017 06:36PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/tiernan-ohalloran-joe-schmidt-141443
That's better reading, some modesty in it

I wouldn't touch that website with yours.

That's just for the direct quotes, no more:)

connachta · 14-11-2017 06:40PM

well some wants to avoid the FB debate, so guys what's the current TH order in YOUR opinion (not the presumed Joe one), behind Furlong, and what's the gap between them?
Bealham/Ryan/Porter/AhYou/Bent/Herbst

prawnsambo · 14-11-2017 06:42PM

connachta wrote: »

That's just for the direct quotes, no more:)

You do realise that you actually have to go to the website to view those? There isn't a 'peep through your fingers' option in web browsers.

I find the Indo site hard enough to view. I have to have a shower afterwards.

Burkie1203 · 14-11-2017 06:46PM

connachta wrote: »

Overall Kearney is at best an average defender. Not only "few missed". He's not a FB who gains any ground on contact, defence or attack. No Leinster fan who has a bit of honnesty would contest that.

He has other qualities. Schmidt thinks they matter more. Controversial, you can agree with him, but even so, there's absolutely no reason to back the idea Rob is a good defender.

What metric are you using to define ground made on contact. Have you not worked out what Joe is looking for from RK yet - there is absolutely Zero controversial about a very successful rugby coach picking a player who he deems the best fit to win rugby matches. Defence in rugby is not just about tackling either.

RK missed 1 tackle on saturday I believe - it was after he picked up a low pass from Murray on the left flank and put in a lovely kick down the line. He got stepped by the Boks 15.

Payne - Injured
Zebo - off to France
Kearney - Does what his coach wants and does it well.
TOH - poor defender and has other work ons.
Conway/Stockdale - new to international rugby. Need time to grow into the squad. Henshaw i think it was said it took him 15 or 20 caps to feel comfortable at that level. It takes time.

Burkie1203 · 14-11-2017 06:47PM

connachta wrote: »

well some wants to avoid the FB debate, so guys what's the current TH order in YOUR opinion (not the presumed Joe one), behind Furlong, and what's the gap between them?
Bealham/Ryan/Porter/AhYou/Bent/Herbst

Furlong, Ryan, Porter, Bent, Bealham .... anyone else

CIARAN_BOYLE · 14-11-2017 06:54PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Furlong, Ryan, Porter, Bent, Bealham .... anyone else

To be honest I would have Bent Archer and Bealham ahead of Porter but I think Porter has been identified as a future big deal. A future Furlong or Healy and is being given the time in squad and caps against tier 2 opposition as a development tool.

Burkie1203 · 14-11-2017 06:58PM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

To be honest I would have Bent Archer and Bealham ahead of Porter but I think Porter has been identified as a future big deal. A future Furlong or Healy and is being given the time in squad and caps against tier 2 opposition as a development tool.

Wouldn't disagree with that but as you said Porter is going to get development time which is going to put him ahead of other options. Bent is more an emergency option. Archer i don't think is realistically in the frame

Bealham lost a lot of ground last season.

its_phil · 14-11-2017 06:58PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Furlong, Ryan, Porter, Bent, Bealham .... anyone else

I understand why Porter is ahead of Bealham (although I disagree with it) but Bealham is every bit as good or not far behind John Ryan. Connacht scrum has been excellent all year and the Munster game a few weeks ago proved that.

connachta · 14-11-2017 07:05PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Overall Kearney is at best an average defender. Not only "few missed". He's not a FB who gains any ground on contact, defence or attack. No Leinster fan who has a bit of honnesty would contest that.

He has other qualities. Schmidt thinks they matter more. Controversial, you can agree with him, but even so, there's absolutely no reason to back the idea Rob is a good defender.

Kearney - Does what his coach wants and does it well.
TOH - poor defender and has other work ons.

Peremptory, others are allowed to think TOH is not perfect but still better defender than Kearney.

connachta · 14-11-2017 07:07PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

. Archer i don't think is realistically in the frame

thank you

Burkie1203 · 14-11-2017 07:08PM

connachta wrote: »

Peremptor, others are allowed to think TOH is not perfect but still better defender than Kearney.

Quite a few of TOHs tackle attempts over the past few seasons which led to tries against connacht would say different.

connachta · 14-11-2017 07:09PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Peremptory, others are allowed to think TOH is not perfect but still better defender than Kearney.

Quite a few of Kearneys tackle attempts over the past few seasons which led to tries against connacht would say different.

You want the gif again?

Burkie1203 · 14-11-2017 07:11PM

connachta wrote: »

You want the gif again?

Work away. If you have a clip of Kearney playing for connacht as they concede tries do post them

molloyjh · 14-11-2017 07:11PM

Riddle me this, riddle me that, why the f—k are we still talking about TOH!? Get a thread folks.

who_me · 14-11-2017 07:11PM

its_phil wrote: »

Before anyone clicks the reply button, just take a deep breath please

[Takes in deep breath. Goes to click Reply button. Finds only Quote button. Can't. Breathe. Panic.]

Neil3030 · 14-11-2017 07:15PM

Why are people comparing TOH to Kearney anyway?

If it was a shootout between these two, wouldn't TOH at least be in camp?

A much more worthwhile exercise would be comparing TOH with the full-back understudy (Carbery? Conway? Stockdale?).

Seems like TOH could be one of those players who will start, if Kearney is injured (now that Zebo is gone), but due to a lack of versatility won't make it into camp otherwise?

connachta · 14-11-2017 07:17PM

back to TH debate, please, some are close to heart attack here

Bazzo · 14-11-2017 07:18PM

Neil3030 wrote: »

Why are people comparing TOH to Kearney anyway?

If it was a shootout between these two, wouldn't TOH at least be in camp?

A much more worthwhile exercise would be comparing TOH with the full-back understudy (Carbery? Conway? Stockdale?).

Seems like TOH could be one of those players who will start, if Kearney is injured (now that Zebo is gone), but due to a lack of versatility won't make it into camp otherwise?

O'Halloran can and has played on the wing as recently as this season.

connachta · 14-11-2017 07:19PM

Neil3030 wrote: »

Why are people comparing TOH to Kearney anyway?

If it was a shootout between these two, wouldn't TOH at least be in camp?

A much more worthwhile exercise would be comparing TOH with the full-back understudy (Carbery? Conway? Stockdale?).

Seems like TOH could be one of those players who will start, if Kearney is injured (now that Zebo is gone), but due to a lack of versatility won't make it into camp otherwise?

because Kearney is NOT way above the others, and will be even less in Sept 2019, in all likelyhood

Neil3030 · 14-11-2017 07:20PM

Bazzo wrote: »

O'Halloran can and has played on the wing as recently as this season.

But is he as good a winger as Conway/Stockdale, or as good on the wing as Carbery is at 10?

Burkie1203 · 14-11-2017 07:23PM

connachta wrote: »

because Kearney is NOT way above the others, and will be even less in Sept 2019, in all likelyhood

But Kearney is way above those currently available. ToH cant even get in the squad so he is way below Kearney right now

And planning for september 2019 is under way.

Neil3030 · 14-11-2017 07:27PM

connachta wrote: »

because Kearney is NOT way above the others, and will be even less in Sept 2019, in all likelyhood

Kearney is way above Stockdale and Carbery as a full-back. He is above Conway and probably to a lesser extent TOH as a full-back. Main point being - he is our best fit full-back. So the question is, do we need two largely specialist full-backs in camp? Because one of them (spoiler alert: TOH) will be training all week but not getting onto the bench at the weekend as we need more versatility at 23.

So the injustice to TOH here, is that he likely won't get a start against either Fiji or Argentina. We can instead see how Stockdale or Conway go there (or maybe even Carbery).

All with a view to having as much depth as possible come 2019, of which I'm sure TOH will contribute.

Bazzo · 14-11-2017 07:30PM

Neil3030 wrote: »

But is he as good a winger as Conway/Stockdale, or as good on the wing as Carbery is at 10?

He is a very good winger when he plays there, he has done so in some very high profiles games for Connacht particularly earlier in his career, but his excellent counterattacking threat is somewhat wasted on the wing

Henry Ford III · 14-11-2017 07:36PM

connachta wrote: »

Overall Kearney is at best an average defender. Not only "few missed". He's not a FB who gains any ground on contact, defence or attack. No Leinster fan who has a bit of honnesty would contest that.

He has other qualities. Schmidt thinks they matter more. Controversial, you can agree with him, but even so, there's absolutely no reason to back the idea Rob is a good defender.

Cummiskey gave him a 5/10 rating from last Saturday - the lowest of any Irish player.

I maintain he's a very poor defender and has been for a while - check out this classic...

14-11-2017 07:49PM

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Cummiskey gave him a 5/10 rating from last Saturday - the lowest of any Irish player.

I maintain he's a very poor defender and has been for a while - check out this classic...

A classic example of what? Kearney loses out in 2v1 shock horror

Former Former · 14-11-2017 07:51PM

Bazzo wrote: »

No offense but you've completely pulled that out of your arse.

Just reason it out.

We play Argentina next week, then the Six Nations, then a summer tour to Australia. This week is the last chance the fringe guys will get for a full 12 months.

You're Finlay Bealham. You played in the Six Nations not so long ago, now you've slipped behind Andrew Porter in the pecking order, a player with two professional starts in his entire career. But you also know that every match day 23 has to have two TH props so it only takes one injury and you could be back in!

And you go to Australia (allegedly).

If he really thought he was in with a shout of getting back in the mix, he wouldn't have booked a holiday to the other side of the world. Maybe Bent is only there to hold tackle bags, but Bealham should be busting a gut to hold tackle bags, jock straps and anything else he can get his hands on. Because as it stands, his international career is over.

So yeah I'm speculating but there's no need to be a dick and tell me I pulled it out of my arse.

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781