Is the term "Non National" Racist ?

Victor · 07-11-2017 06:42PM

Are Am Eye wrote: »

We still have a problem with test tube babies born in international waters. Also people born there and who remain there in a ship going around in circles. There is no relevant law where no law exists.

Your move.

Test tube babies still have parents. Ships are obliged to be registered somewhere - the laws of that country may apply.

D3V!L · 07-11-2017 06:50PM

At what point did "foreign-national" become obsolete ?

Are Am Eye · 07-11-2017 06:54PM

Victor wrote: »

Test tube babies still have parents. Ships are obliged to be registered somewhere - the laws of that country may apply.

These are Pirates and tjey didn't register with no stinking land lubers.
The pirates killed the babys parents and no records or knowledge of them exist.

sligojoek · 07-11-2017 07:06PM

A phone conversation between Ross O' Carroll Kelly's mother Fionnula and an irish Times employee.

IT: How would you like the ad to read, Madam?
FO'CK: Cleaning lady wanted..
IT: You can't say that madam. It's gender specific.
FO'CK: Sorry. Cleaner wanted. No foreigners need apply....
IT: You can't say that either, it's racist.
FO'CK: Sorry. Cleaner wanted. No non-nationals need apply.
IT: *CLICK*

diomed · 07-11-2017 07:08PM

Is the Grand National racist?

Outlaw Pete · 07-11-2017 07:08PM

It's just a statement of fact in the same way that saying a drink is non-alcoholic is, or saying a book is non-fiction.

bucketybuck · 07-11-2017 07:10PM

Rubberchikken wrote: »

Why not just use the word foreigner?

Because in 6 months times there will be a thread titled "Is the term "foreigner" racist?"

07-11-2017 07:11PM

"This is Tom, he's from Dublin"

"This is Dick, he's from Limerick"

"This is Harry, he's from Cork"

"This is Candie, she's a non-national"

Hmmm. It's not racist, just sort of clumsy sounding.

_Dara_ · 07-11-2017 07:24PM

It's not racist but it is nonsensical. Everyone is a native of somewhere.

Outlaw Pete · 07-11-2017 07:34PM

_Dara_ wrote: »

It's not racist but it is nonsensical. Everyone is a native of somewhere.

Sweet baby Jehovah.

Yes, but some times such specificity is not required. For example:

Information for Non Residents & Non Nationals

_Dara_ · 07-11-2017 07:36PM

Yeah, some hospital having it on their website doesn't make it any less nonsensical.

The heading doesn't match the body of text, where they to address people from other countries, ya know, the places they consider themselves native to. It's odd that they didn't put foreign national in the heading.

It's a dumb phrase. If you are not an Irish national, you're a foreign national. You don't need to specify the country, just acknowledge that the person is from somewhere.

Sweet baby jehovah yourself.

Badly Drunk Boy · 07-11-2017 07:38PM

Lux23 wrote: »

I also think it is nicer to refer to where a person is from - 'Johnny, from China' is a simple to say Johnny, a non-national.

He told me that he prefers to be called Chinaman John.

_Brian · 07-11-2017 07:42PM

Surely the intent is more important than the actual words.

Words like non national or foreigners can be used benignly or with malice.

07-11-2017 07:45PM

_Brian wrote: »

Surely the intent is more important than the actual words.

Words like non national or foreigners can be used benignly or with malice.

For sure, it can be clumsy and inappropriate or completely apt. Like everything else, it's all about the context.

_Dara_ · 07-11-2017 07:47PM

Candie wrote: »

For sure, it can be clumsy and inappropriate or completely apt. Like everything else, it's all about the context.

I just can't see where it is apt at all. Genuinely. If you're not from here, you're from somewhere. People speak of technicalities like international waters, defunct nations etc. The best thing to do if not sure is to say foreign national and if you have the chance, ask the person where they consider themselves a native of.

Permabear · 07-11-2017 07:49PM

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07-11-2017 07:50PM

_Dara_ wrote: »

I just can't see where it is apt at all. Genuinely. If you're not from here, you're from somewhere.

Well if I was writing something that specifically applied to Irish people that non native Irish can disregard, then saying it doesn't apply to non-nationals would be a neat shorthand. I admit the uses would be few, but I imagine they exist nonetheless.

_Dara_ · 07-11-2017 07:57PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I would be willing to bet that if you asked any of those stateless individuals, they'd consider themselves of somewhere. If Ireland ceased to exist, I would still consider myself Irish.

As someone not from Ireland said upthread, they'd rather be defined as what they are, rather than what they are not. Those stateless individuals still have backgrounds and histories. They don't exist in a vacuum.

_Dara_ · 07-11-2017 07:59PM

Candie wrote: »

Well if I was writing something that specifically applied to Irish people that non native Irish can disregard, then saying it doesn't apply to non-nationals would be a neat shorthand. I admit the uses would be few, but I imagine they exist nonetheless.

As Victor said, that's what non-Irish national would be for. That says that they are a national of somewhere other than Ireland.

mel.b · 07-11-2017 08:05PM

I'd never heard of the term 'non-national' and 'foreign national' until I moved to Ireland. And as a 'foreign-national' (although I have my Irish passport now

) I disliked both terms. I never thought it racist, but I never liked it.

_Dara_ · 07-11-2017 08:07PM

mel.b wrote: »

I'd never heard of the term 'non-national' until I moved to Ireland. And as a 'non-national' (although I have my Irish passport now ) I disliked the term. I never thought it racist, but I never liked it.

It does seem to be particular to Ireland, doesn't it? How do other countries get by without this marvellous terminology?

Permabear · 07-11-2017 08:08PM

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Mrs OBumble · 07-11-2017 08:16PM

_Dara_ wrote: »

. If you are not an Irish national, you're a foreign national. You don't need to specify the country, just acknowledge that the person is from somewhere.

And I am both. As are many other people living here.

07-11-2017 08:18PM

_Dara_ wrote: »

As Victor said, that's what non-Irish national would be for. That says that they are a national of somewhere other than Ireland.

Yeah, that does seem fairest really. I don't think it's racist though, just inappropriate and unnecessary.

Permabear · 07-11-2017 08:24PM

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_Dara_ · 07-11-2017 08:42PM

Candie wrote: »

Yeah, that does seem fairest really. I don't think it's racist though, just inappropriate and unnecessary.

I don't think it's racist either and said so in my first post in the thread!

gozunda · 07-11-2017 08:44PM

Dr Brown wrote: »

I can't see anything wrong with using the term "Non National" but some people seem to think its "racist".

What is it with "question statements" on Boards recently asking if Ireland / Irish people is / are racist in one way or another. I smell a big hairy rat tbh.

"Non national" is a perogrative term which describes someone of non Irish nationality. If the term is racist' then our government is clearly using 'racist'(sic) terminology see: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000030

This BS that we are one big (small?) global village appears to insist that there be no boundaries between nations- ya right - how exactly does that work? Imo such a scenario only benefits those who wish to exploit target countries and fail to recognise an individual countries right to sovergnity and the inherent protection of national rights.

But leaving the rumination aside and back to first principles - what is the motive for asking such a devisive question in the first place?

eoghanhickey · 07-11-2017 08:48PM

It’s non-racist, but it’s also quite non-specific. I mean it is pretty non-descriptive and clunky. It could be interpreted as negative–a round about way of saying them. This lends it to humour well… And, I’m reaching for another context to say non-national? I’ve non-found a better term.

Permabear · 07-11-2017 08:49PM

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mahamageehad · 07-11-2017 08:51PM

I don't think it's racist, as others have said maybe just a bit clunky. However, that said, it is often used in a racist way by certain people to demean others. Usually others that look different to the traditional Irish look.

I like "foreign national" myself for the reason someone gave earlier about it being an inclusive term.

Is the term "Non National" Racist ?

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