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Is the term "Non National" Racist ?

Dr Brown

I can't see anything wrong with using the term "Non National" but some people seem to think its "racist".

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Victor

Are Am Eye wrote: »

We still have a problem with test tube babies born in international waters. Also people born there and who remain there in a ship going around in circles. There is no relevant law where no law exists.

Your move.

Test tube babies still have parents. Ships are obliged to be registered somewhere - the laws of that country may apply.

D3V!L

At what point did "foreign-national" become obsolete ?

Are Am Eye

Victor wrote: »

Test tube babies still have parents. Ships are obliged to be registered somewhere - the laws of that country may apply.

These are Pirates and tjey didn't register with no stinking land lubers.
The pirates killed the babys parents and no records or knowledge of them exist.

sligojoek

A phone conversation between Ross O' Carroll Kelly's mother Fionnula and an irish Times employee.

IT: How would you like the ad to read, Madam?
FO'CK: Cleaning lady wanted..
IT: You can't say that madam. It's gender specific.
FO'CK: Sorry. Cleaner wanted. No foreigners need apply....
IT: You can't say that either, it's racist.
FO'CK: Sorry. Cleaner wanted. No non-nationals need apply.
IT: *CLICK*

diomed

Is the Grand National racist?

Outlaw Pete

It's just a statement of fact in the same way that saying a drink is non-alcoholic is, or saying a book is non-fiction.

bucketybuck

Rubberchikken wrote: »

Why not just use the word foreigner?

Because in 6 months times there will be a thread titled "Is the term "foreigner" racist?"

[Deleted User]

"This is Tom, he's from Dublin"

"This is Dick, he's from Limerick"

"This is Harry, he's from Cork"

"This is Candie, she's a non-national"

Hmmm. It's not racist, just sort of clumsy sounding.

_Dara_

It's not racist but it is nonsensical. Everyone is a native of somewhere.

Outlaw Pete

_Dara_ wrote: »

It's not racist but it is nonsensical. Everyone is a native of somewhere.

Sweet baby Jehovah.

Yes, but some times such specificity is not required. For example:

Information for Non Residents & Non Nationals

_Dara_

Yeah, some hospital having it on their website doesn't make it any less nonsensical.

The heading doesn't match the body of text, where they to address people from other countries, ya know, the places they consider themselves native to. It's odd that they didn't put foreign national in the heading.

It's a dumb phrase. If you are not an Irish national, you're a foreign national. You don't need to specify the country, just acknowledge that the person is from somewhere.

Sweet baby jehovah yourself.

Badly Drunk Boy

Lux23 wrote: »

I also think it is nicer to refer to where a person is from - 'Johnny, from China' is a simple to say Johnny, a non-national.

He told me that he prefers to be called Chinaman John.

_Brian

Surely the intent is more important than the actual words.

Words like non national or foreigners can be used benignly or with malice.

[Deleted User]

_Brian wrote: »

Surely the intent is more important than the actual words.

Words like non national or foreigners can be used benignly or with malice.

For sure, it can be clumsy and inappropriate or completely apt. Like everything else, it's all about the context.

_Dara_

Candie wrote: »

For sure, it can be clumsy and inappropriate or completely apt. Like everything else, it's all about the context.

I just can't see where it is apt at all. Genuinely. If you're not from here, you're from somewhere. People speak of technicalities like international waters, defunct nations etc. The best thing to do if not sure is to say foreign national and if you have the chance, ask the person where they consider themselves a native of.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

[Deleted User]

_Dara_ wrote: »

I just can't see where it is apt at all. Genuinely. If you're not from here, you're from somewhere.

Well if I was writing something that specifically applied to Irish people that non native Irish can disregard, then saying it doesn't apply to non-nationals would be a neat shorthand. I admit the uses would be few, but I imagine they exist nonetheless.

_Dara_

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I would be willing to bet that if you asked any of those stateless individuals, they'd consider themselves of somewhere. If Ireland ceased to exist, I would still consider myself Irish.

As someone not from Ireland said upthread, they'd rather be defined as what they are, rather than what they are not. Those stateless individuals still have backgrounds and histories. They don't exist in a vacuum.

_Dara_

Candie wrote: »

Well if I was writing something that specifically applied to Irish people that non native Irish can disregard, then saying it doesn't apply to non-nationals would be a neat shorthand. I admit the uses would be few, but I imagine they exist nonetheless.

As Victor said, that's what non-Irish national would be for. That says that they are a national of somewhere other than Ireland.

mel.b

I'd never heard of the term 'non-national' and 'foreign national' until I moved to Ireland. And as a 'foreign-national' (although I have my Irish passport now

) I disliked both terms. I never thought it racist, but I never liked it.

_Dara_

mel.b wrote: »

I'd never heard of the term 'non-national' until I moved to Ireland. And as a 'non-national' (although I have my Irish passport now ) I disliked the term. I never thought it racist, but I never liked it.

It does seem to be particular to Ireland, doesn't it? How do other countries get by without this marvellous terminology?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Mrs OBumble

_Dara_ wrote: »

. If you are not an Irish national, you're a foreign national. You don't need to specify the country, just acknowledge that the person is from somewhere.

And I am both. As are many other people living here.

[Deleted User]

_Dara_ wrote: »

As Victor said, that's what non-Irish national would be for. That says that they are a national of somewhere other than Ireland.

Yeah, that does seem fairest really. I don't think it's racist though, just inappropriate and unnecessary.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

_Dara_

Candie wrote: »

Yeah, that does seem fairest really. I don't think it's racist though, just inappropriate and unnecessary.

I don't think it's racist either and said so in my first post in the thread!

gozunda

Dr Brown wrote: »

I can't see anything wrong with using the term "Non National" but some people seem to think its "racist".

What is it with "question statements" on Boards recently asking if Ireland / Irish people is / are racist in one way or another. I smell a big hairy rat tbh.

"Non national" is a perogrative term which describes someone of non Irish nationality. If the term is racist' then our government is clearly using 'racist'(sic) terminology see: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000030

This BS that we are one big (small?) global village appears to insist that there be no boundaries between nations- ya right - how exactly does that work? Imo such a scenario only benefits those who wish to exploit target countries and fail to recognise an individual countries right to sovergnity and the inherent protection of national rights.

But leaving the rumination aside and back to first principles - what is the motive for asking such a devisive question in the first place?

eoghanhickey

It’s non-racist, but it’s also quite non-specific. I mean it is pretty non-descriptive and clunky. It could be interpreted as negative–a round about way of saying them. This lends it to humour well… And, I’m reaching for another context to say non-national? I’ve non-found a better term.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

mahamageehad

I don't think it's racist, as others have said maybe just a bit clunky. However, that said, it is often used in a racist way by certain people to demean others. Usually others that look different to the traditional Irish look.

I like "foreign national" myself for the reason someone gave earlier about it being an inclusive term.