Why there are so many junkies (chavs/knackers)in Dublin?

wakka12 · 05-11-2017 1:18pm

Simply massive tracts of social housing within the city centre core. i dont know why, I havnt seen it anywhere else Ive ever visited. Or maybe other countries social housing is less instantly obvious as social housing. But yeh, huge amounts of the old georgian city were demolished to put up block after block of horrid looking social housing. I dont know why theyre still there, they should really be made into normal looking apartment complexes with mixes of paid homes and social houses with retail units at ground floor

Some of the most important,central land with extremely high economic potential shouldnt be given over to social housing. St patricks church, one of the countrys biggest tourist attractions st patricks church, is literally surrounded by social housing. Im not advocating moving these people out to suburbs and making slums. But they dont need to live in such central areas. Places like rathmines or harolds cross are perfect distance as they are within walking distance to cbd as well. But yeh it needs to change.

wakka12 · 05-11-2017 1:33pm

Mr.S wrote: »

wtf?

--

You notice 'knackers' and drug addicts because Dublin CC is compact & small. Our drug treatment clinics, inner-city council housing & homeless support centres are all located in the city centre near popular areas.

Other cities ship all of these outside their main areas, or have larger city centres, area's where generally only addicts go etc. In Dublin, it's just all in the same area, with tourists, offices etc in the same vicinity.

I wouldn't say there are more addicts etc in Dublin compared to other major cities, we just notice it more where as other cities hide them away.

Which method is better? the methodone clinics should be in accesible areas just outside the CBD. Not smack bang in the central city core, somewhere around the canals. Nowhere specific but I think that distance is ideal and best for everyone .

AlekSmart · 05-11-2017 1:45pm

dd972 wrote: »

A very, entrenched class system wherein the sort of law abiding average Joe who's socially and economically between these people and the middle classes represents a much thinner layer of society compared to other countries.

Lack of political will and intent to improve the areas these people live, if you're unlucky enough to be born in them you're pretty much regarded as human trash by the state and the middle classes.

Drugs and Alcohol pandemic.

A self-perpetuating, dead-end infantile culture that based around being either a Jack-the-lad, a thug,(or maybe both) and having to have 3 kids by the age of 22.

Complete lack of boundaries, which actually works out positively for them in many respects, growing up believing you can do what the f**k you like creates this uninhibited aspect about them, I don't really see the anxiety about them that afflicts people who have to hold down jobs, pay mortgages, etc.

If you think about Dublin in relation to the rest of the country in terms of demographics, they probably stand out all the more, I've read that many of them are descended from a Famine influx into the slums of the city in the mid 1800's even that in it's own way renders them different. I've even met English born people with Irish parents who are more quintessentially 'Irish' than lower-class Dubliners in terms of connection with the parishes they originate from, the GAA, Church, etc.

Excellent response to the OP,and quite accurate too.

I'm not quite 100% on the "lack of Political will to improve the area's" bit however.
In my lifetime,I have known both the old and the new,in terms of Inner City area's with school pals who were actually lived in the likes of Henrietta Street, before it emerged on to the "historically important site" radar screen.

So too have I experienced the HUGE improvement in general living conditions for people relocated (Forcibly moved,to some) to new housing developments in the suburbs.

The choice,if you can term it that,was to remain living in squalor,in often condemned buildings,with shared toilet and washing facilities,overcrowded schools,no accessible open spaces OR to move out to the new estates with bathrooms and gardens,play areas,fully resourced schools,and new communities to get involved in.

We hear very little about the hundreds of thousands for whom that choice worked,and who,as a result became the vanguard of what allowed Ireland to become a Country which has punched way over it's weight in terms of European and World presence.

We do hear,almost unendingly,of the cases who either refused to make the choices,compromises,and perhaps sacrifices in order to avail of the new futures,or having made them,then decide to attack and destroy the new community fabric,from the inside.

This self-destructive,permanent victimhood mindset,and the inability of our Societal and Administrative structures to confront it remains the single greatest threat to Irelands future.
One can compare America and Ireland until doomsday,but to suggest that the average comparable American and Irish person would share basic socio political views is stretching it,in my opinion.
The constant calls for Irish Governments to get involved in the ordinary day to day lives of Citizens,would be strongly resisted in the United States of America,often by the very people who,it could be said,would gain most from it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhYJS80MgYA

Each day,as I pass the huge reconstruction project of Dolphin House,and see the scale of improvement,I try to fast-forward another 10 years and wonder what scenario I will see then ?

I have to be optimistic,and so I will go with a vibrant,open and welcoming community,acceptant of outsiders and striving to improve it's outlook,however,I also have to refer to my pessimistic side and consider the alternative,traditional mindset.

As to the OP's question....

I'll go with dd972's line...

A self-perpetuating, dead-end infantile culture that based around being either a Jack-the-lad, a thug,(or maybe both) and having to have 3 kids by the age of 22.

22 would be at the top end of the scale.

Here we go · 05-11-2017 2:17pm

volono wrote: »

Hi op,
like other posters have mentioned and i could be wrong on the exact figures but its my understanding that there's 7 methadone clinics from amiens street on wards in the city center , some homeless accommodation and the homeless persons unit is directly across from pearse street garda station. The point being is that these people have to travel into that area of the city every day to collect said methadone as you'll find the vast vast majority are not on '' take home '' supply ie 5 days worth of methadone at a time. Why are they centered there??
Have any of you looked into suboxone use as an alternative to methadone by the way??
Have any of you asked why these people are heroin users in the first place?? and by that i mean people from disadvantaged backgrounds and otherwise (which includes people ''that live there'' as one poster mentioned?? )
Have you seen the European commissioned study from back in the 80's that stated that the north inner city was one of the most impoverished, under resourced areas in the WHOLE OF EUROPE at the time , no wonder Tony Gregory is still idolized in those areas and this is with the I.F.S.C. and some of the most profitable companies in the WORLD operating on the doorstep.
I feel people are very quick to judge others and it's not only ''junkies '' etc but in all walks of life , the question should be WHY??, how can we have an ever increasing homeless crisis , hospital crisis in fact a crisis in every social provision i can think of ??
People don't want to think like that though?? do they , we see junkies and homeless and beggars and what do we think?? F them , but imo it's the failure of successive failed policies on behalf of the elected governments to implement a plan to eradicate them.
Do people truly believe that the vast majority of elected officials have our best interests at heart ?? , like seriously!!
I am on the side of nurture in the nature versus nurture debate and although millionaires have come out of impoverished backgrounds i believe you are a product of your environment which makes it so so much harder.
A quick look at the school tables every year will tell you that, and please have a look!! whats so sad is that it has become generational now , your socialised into it.
I could go on and on and on and i'm sure someone will respond by saying that wait , we live in an open society were any child can go onto 3rd level etc etc but what are they getting socialised into??
Whats that saying?? ''show me a child at 7 and i'll show you the person they'll be''
IMO we all have to start looking beyond the small stuff and find a way to elect officials that will genuinely implement policies to fix whats really wrong with our society so that the days of this are over.
Just back to the op and another poster touched upon it . America now has more deaths per annum from legalized opiods than they do heroin , Purdue pharmaceuticals have been found out to have fudged there clinical trials re Oxycontin have you looked into that??
Have you asked yourself why there's over 40 MILLION PEOPLE on food stamps in America , I only hope you do wake up!!!!

I think you make a great point about being socialized into it I read something awhile back about ghettos in the states and how poor areas if left that why devolepet a mini culture around it and that was the norm kids grow up seeing there parents grandparents in these situation and the area full of dealers and adddicts and they devolep with that being normal with collecting welfare a career drinking /drugs a normality the answer is more then one or two government terms long it's a project that could take generations and a huge cost and an accetence that it will be abused at first for. Long time becasue that's the culture

jon1981 · 05-11-2017 2:23pm

OP, I'm sure it's been said here already but there's nothing unusual here. Take a walk through San Fran, NYC and most major cities in Europe such as Paris and you'll find Dublin has nothing on these cities. Also Boston I'd argue has a worse problem than Dublin... i find your post alittle odd.

afatbollix · 05-11-2017 2:35pm

Its a huge issue but like this thread, no one wants to hit the problem head-on.

I went to Ballyfermot college 10 years ago and I was always wondering why so many of them were on the bus at 8am until someone told me two stops after the college was a clinic. They just didn't give a **** and we had everything from a hot box situations to smoking heroin on the top deck.

Then I started working in town by a clinic which was also fun.

Maybe its a good thing its out more in the open but I'd rather see them spread it out with more local facilities. Making a Hamsterdam situation just doesn't work. (Look up teh wire)

Technocentral · 05-11-2017 3:05pm

Jawgap wrote:

.....a few years ago the HSE made the decision to centralised the methadone / rehab clinics and 'bring them in' from the suburbs......as a result, the junkies came in to town, then the dealers, then the junkies who weren't on methadone etc.....

Jawgap wrote:

Actually, I believe the correct terms is skangers or at a push scobies......

The term is anti social thugs, the other terms are needlessly offensive.

goz83 · 05-11-2017 3:43pm

eduzzino5 wrote: »

Please don't get me wrong - I don't want to offend or to insult anyone.
I don't even know the right word to use (knackers/chavs/scumbags/junkies). I moved from Boston to Dublin last year and it seems to me there are so many knackers in the city.

Just wanted to understand if there is a reason (bad welfare? high level of drugs? low police enforcement?) of why there are so many knackers in Dublin (especially in the city center)

So you're from Ireland (possibly Dublin) and recently returned after being in Boston for "a while" and you don't want to offend anyone and also don't know the "right word" to use use? OKAY :rolleyes:

So having returned from NYC where I recently was for a while (4 days) I noticed far more people with problems when walking around Manhattan. They slept on the benches in Central Park, The Subway Stations and I even saw a few on 7th Avenue & Broadway in sleeping bags alongside the walls of the busy shops and restauarants. They walked the streets talking to themselves, or shouting at other people. The more stable (using that word with a picnch of salt) were selling gazettes. I was queuing at the Museum of Natural History one morning and one these less fortunate people was trying to sell what looked like a 2 page paper for $2. He said "Aight Folks....if ya don have enough, y'all kin make a donation....a dollar, a freakin apple". Then he threatened to sing if nobody gave him money. Oh God...he was not bluffing :eek: He did warn us that he was bad and he was right. His signing was like someone shouting really loudly a Britney Spears song. Then he was Snoop and then he was P Diddy. Torture. He moved on to assault others with his tunes further down the line.

I think maybe you notice our undesirables more because they usually dress better. You don't see them wearing Penneys best....oh no...it's Nike all the way.

What was the purpose of your OP?

eduzzino5 · 06-11-2017 12:44am

goz83 wrote: »

So you're from Ireland (possibly Dublin) and recently returned after being in Boston for "a while" and you don't want to offend anyone and also don't know the "right word" to use use? OKAY :rolleyes:

So having returned from NYC where I recently was for a while (4 days) I noticed far more people with problems when walking around Manhattan. They slept on the benches in Central Park, The Subway Stations and I even saw a few on 7th Avenue & Broadway in sleeping bags alongside the walls of the busy shops and restauarants. They walked the streets talking to themselves, or shouting at other people. The more stable (using that word with a picnch of salt) were selling gazettes. I was queuing at the Museum of Natural History one morning and one these less fortunate people was trying to sell what looked like a 2 page paper for $2. He said "Aight Folks....if ya don have enough, y'all kin make a donation....a dollar, a freakin apple". Then he threatened to sing if nobody gave him money. Oh God...he was not bluffing :eek: He did warn us that he was bad and he was right. His signing was like someone shouting really loudly a Britney Spears song. Then he was Snoop and then he was P Diddy. Torture. He moved on to assault others with his tunes further down the line.

I think maybe you notice our undesirables more because they usually dress better. You don't see them wearing Penneys best....oh no...it's Nike all the way.

What was the purpose of your OP?

I'm not saying there are no knackers in other cities!!! I KNOW THERE ARE! I just DO KNOW why there are knackers in NYC and Boston since I've lived there, informed myself and I know the history of the city, I don't know why there are knackers IN DUBLIN. I ain't saying Boston is better, I just wanted to get an idea/explanation/suggestion of where all these knackers are coming from

eduzzino5 · 06-11-2017 12:48am

wakka12 wrote: »

Simply massive tracts of social housing within the city centre core. i dont know why, I havnt seen it anywhere else Ive ever visited. Or maybe other countries social housing is less instantly obvious as social housing. But yeh, huge amounts of the old georgian city were demolished to put up block after block of horrid looking social housing. I dont know why theyre still there, they should really be made into normal looking apartment complexes with mixes of paid homes and social houses with retail units at ground floor

Some of the most important,central land with extremely high economic potential shouldnt be given over to social housing. St patricks church, one of the countrys biggest tourist attractions st patricks church, is literally surrounded by social housing. Im not advocating moving these people out to suburbs and making slums. But they dont need to live in such central areas. Places like rathmines or harolds cross are perfect distance as they are within walking distance to cbd as well. But yeh it needs to change.

Couldn't agree more. Ive a friend living close to the Tim Kelly Flats in Charlemont st (so called "Charlo"). He's never had any issue whatsoever but everything I pass by they look very dodgy.

But honestly, there are people that don't make lots of money if they had issue and they deserve a social house - like they need to have one but they are good people. I was more referring to all the people asking for change and looking to get into a fight hanging around next to the spire or Parnell st.

wakka12 · 06-11-2017 1:05am

eduzzino5 wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. Ive a friend living close to the Tim Kelly Flats in Charlemont st (so called "Charlo"). He's never had any issue whatsoever but everything I pass by they look very dodgy.

But honestly, there are people that don't make lots of money if they had issue and they deserve a social house - like they need to have one but they are good people. I was more referring to all the people asking for change and looking to get into a fight hanging around next to the spire or Parnell st.

I dont have a problem with social housing..I agree they deserve a house..it just doesnt need to be clustered together on some of busiest and most expensive land in the capital city, and the blocks dont need to be unfiformly social hosuing, they dont need to be so scary and intimdating looking, why dont they make the buildings look nice with balconies and big windows and shops at ground floor etc

Birdie Num Num · 06-11-2017 1:34am

Stoner wrote: »

In some cities in the states they pick up the drug users and drive them away from the centre, there are zones and tourist spots they need stay out of.

San Francisco about 10 years ago was terrible, but they've addressed that issue to a large degree.

However it's a tactic of literally kicking the can down the road.

Americans seem at peace with having areas where living conditions are terrible, they drop the addicts off in these spots, nobody of note lives there. Locals simply don't go there, middle-class Americans are terrified of them, tourists seldom see them.

Get a bus from NY to Boston and you'll see what I mean.

I saw the OP mentioned 'Bad Welfare' as a possible reason. Interestingly I was told that one of the reasons that San Fran had such a similar issue was because social welfare was pretty good there compared to other parts of the US.

maninasia · 06-11-2017 1:55am

Nobody deserves social housing, they can ask for a roof over their head not a lifetime of freebies and working the system.They certainly DO NOT deserve a free house.

hatrickpatrick · 06-11-2017 4:29am

It's a lack of judicial enforcement, simple as that. The scumbag who put a firework in that girl's hoodie a few weeks back is clearly identifiable on the video footage. If caught, he should be looking at a minimum prison sentence of several years for extremely serious assault, but he won't get it. Society will be lucky if they bother bringing him before the courts at all, knowing full well that he'll walk away with a slap on the wrist and the Gardai's time will once again have been wasted.

Ireland needs more jails, harsher sentences for violent behaviour, and more creative ways to manage scumbags who have done their time. I've always said that people who are "well known to the Gardai" should be electronically tagged so that when a report of serious anti social behaviour is called in to the local Garda station, the local super can pull up a map showing him or her where every "well known to the Gardai" scumbag is, and easily see who might be a suspect in whatever antisocial crap is being reported. If such people are found to be repeatedly engaging in it, as far as I'm concerned they should be subject to longer and longer sentences.

Hand in hand with this zero tolerance policy towards violent crime should be a complete eradication of laws against victimless crime. For example, there wouldn't be any drug cartels if drugs were legal, just as there aren't any alcohol cartels in the United States anymore since prohibition is no longer in place. Cut the ground from underneath these organisation and watch them starve, and stop getting people mixed up with the justice system and law enforcement for entirely victimless crap like being caught with pills for personal use or smoking a joint by the canal. Liberalise all laws based around personal choices, while simultaneously massively clamping down on all violations of laws which relate to harming others.

This isn't the whole picture obviously but it's definitely part of it. I fully believe that the guy who put a screamer into a girl's hoodie and damn near blew a hole in her skull is a psychopath and pretty much beyond redemption. As far as I'm concerned, people like this should be placed on semi-permanent watch lists akin to sex offenders registries, and never allowed to move throughout society without the Gardai knowing where they are and what they're up to. Harsh, sure, but so is a "prank" which would have undoubtedly resulted in a death, or at least a serious and permanent brain injury, had that rocket exploded with its payload facing her head rather than her hood. We can't afford to tolerate this kind of stuff, as far as I'm concerned that kind of assault should carry a definite custodial sentence and some kind of long term surveillance thereafter, regardless of any mitigating factors whatsoever.

EDIT: I categorically do not believe that social housing or even socioeconomic status are to blame for this. I live in what might be considered a posh area of Dublin and violent incidents happen here too. Hell, a guy was severely stabbed coming home from a Christmas Eve party just down the road from me last year. The fact that this incident was caught on video and I never heard anything about it after the initial news reports speaks volumes - I'd bet my life savings that the people involved and clearly identifiable on video didn't spend a single second inside a prison cell.

suicide_circus · 06-11-2017 7:04am

I live in Dublin City Centre. The only city I've been with more junkies all over the street in San Francisco.

The gardai do nothing about the problem (you see them stop and search a junkie once in a blue moon) but why would they since there is no effort by the government or judiciary to keep the streets clean.

Heroin and benzos seem to be the favoured menu on dublin streets.

AlekSmart · 06-11-2017 7:15am

wakka12 wrote: »

I dont have a problem with social housing..I agree they deserve a house..it just doesnt need to be clustered together on some of busiest and most expensive land in the capital city, and the blocks dont need to be unfiformly social hosuing, they dont need to be so scary and intimdating looking, why dont they make the buildings look nice with balconies and big windows and shops at ground floor etc

Social housing does'nt start out being scary & intimidating,it's not built that way from bricks and mortar....It only becomes that way after we Humans add the "social" bit ourselves.

ChikiChiki · 06-11-2017 7:39am

I've just come back from Sydney and noticed the same. Its very noticeable to see people dead eyed and off their faces in the city centre.

Like the politicians many want to stick their head in the sand and pretend the problem doesn't exist.

iodd7 · 06-11-2017 8:31am

OP - your terminology is offensive - 'knacker' is a pejorative term for traveller (like calling a black person the n word) so you should edit your post - your recurring use of the word in your replies is strange.

The Bishop Basher · 06-11-2017 8:55am

iodd7 wrote: »

OP - your terminology is offensive - 'knacker' is a pejorative term for traveller (like calling a black person the n word) so you should edit your post - your recurring use of the word in your replies is strange.

Offensive to you maybe.. We don't all choose to get offended by words so speak for yourself thanks..

eduzzino5 wrote: »

Just wanted to understand if there is a reason (bad welfare? high level of drugs? low police enforcement?) of why there are so many knackers in Dublin (especially in the city center)

I agree OP. Dublin has become a kip. The city centre seems to have become a mecca for undesireables and it's generally a very unpleasant place to be imo. I would contrast that with many other European cities which are a pleasure to walk around.

Why ? Well there's no single answer but I would say a complete inability to govern ourselves effectively has a lot to do with it. Our politicians are too greedy, corrupt and busy feathering their own nests to tackle issues that effect the less fortunate in our society.

Wanderer78 · 06-11-2017 9:11am

suicide_circus wrote:

The gardai do nothing about the problem (you see them stop and search a junkie once in a blue moon) but why would they since there is no effort by the government or judiciary to keep the streets clean.

Is this just a legal matter?

Swanner wrote:

Why ? Well there's no single answer but I would say a complete inability to govern ourselves effectively has a lot to do with it. Our politicians are too greedy, corrupt and busy feathering their own nests to tackle issues that effect the less fortunate in our society.

To be fair, I do believe our political system isn't as bad as some countries, but of course there's elements of the truth in what you say.

cgcsb · 06-11-2017 11:51am

Well there are several reasons really.

-We don't have any prison spaces, so usually there are no prison sentences handed down, there are people walking around with dozens, if not hundreds of convictions for petty theft and even moderate offenses like assault.

-We don't have a police force per say. We have the Gardaí who spend most of their time checking tax and insurance on the national roads, falsifying data, triple parking on Pearse St., or generally just shooting the breeze in their offices

-Our government from the early 1990s up until the recession incentivized single women from working class areas to have as many children as possible, such was the welfare set up at the time. They also incentivized welfare dependency in the early 2000s by paying out a weekly welfare rate almost equal to the then minimum wage.

-Drugs policy is ignore and obfusticate. We had a tremendous opportunity in this country a few years back to regularize, regulate and tax drugs through 'headshops' which sold legal synthetic drugs. Of course a few phone calls to Joe Duffy meant that they were just banned outright.

-The recent recession saw the state take on massive residential property portfolios through NAMA, so policy since then has been to make housing as expensive as possible through an onerous planning process and heavy taxation on development. This creates a homelessness crisis as a side effect and of course homelessness and drugs go hand in hand.

-This will change though, gentrification of Dublin's inner districts will push out undesireables

Wanderer78 · 06-11-2017 11:56am

cgcsb wrote: »

This will change though, gentrification of Dublin's inner districts will push out undesireables

so people with extremely complex issues are 'undesirables' and should be 'pushed out'? again, 'out of sight, out of mind' comes to mind! this solves the problem by......

Dublin Spur · 06-11-2017 12:21pm

There are 2 issues for me: 1) The filth and 2) the danger/criminality

On the filth, the north inner city is filthy dirty. I work just off Talbot Street and the amount of sh1te (animal and human) I step over every day on the way to the office is sickening. The council do their best but the sheer volume of dirt, litter and rubbish is way too high for them to make a dent in it. I don't know if the guilty parties are local or come into the north inner city to dump the crap, I would say its probably a bit of both.

Regarding the scummy individuals that lurk around every corner I think it's a policing issue - in the 90's Manhattan was transformed from a dangerous sleazy kip so there's no reason the same can't be done with Dublin, there just needs the right amount of determination, focus and of course money. Zero tolerance on anti-social behavior would be a good start along with tough sentencing for repeat offenders, working for the dole would be another positive step.

Look, I know there are no easy fixes here but surely we all agree that we can't leave things the way they are, the north inner city is badly broken but nobody seems to be doing anything to fix it. It's an embarrassment, O'Connell St and the surrounding area should be a world class location and something we should all be proud of as Dubliners.

The North/South inner city divide is also very wrong, why for example in Merrion Square in better shape than Montjoy square, both are pretty identical Georgian Dublin developments yet one is now pretty much a tenement whilst the other is gleaming. Who allowed these double standards to take hold and why as nobody ever done anything about it?

wakka12 · 06-11-2017 12:37pm

Dublin Spur wrote: »

There are 2 issues for me: 1) The filth and 2) the danger/criminality

On the filth, the north inner city is filthy dirty. I work just off Talbot Street and the amount of sh1te (animal and human) I step over every day on the way to the office is sickening. The council do their best but the sheer volume of dirt, litter and rubbish is way too high for them to make a dent in it. I don't know if the guilty parties are local or come into the north inner city to dump the crap, I would say its probably a bit of both.

Regarding the scummy individuals that lurk around every corner I think it's a policing issue - in the 90's Manhattan was transformed from a dangerous sleazy kip so there's no reason the same can't be done with Dublin, there just needs the right amount of determination, focus and of course money. Zero tolerance on anti-social behavior would be a good start along with tough sentencing for repeat offenders, working for the dole would be another positive step.

Look, I know there are no easy fixes here but surely we all agree that we can't leave things the way they are, the north inner city is badly broken but nobody seems to be doing anything to fix it. It's an embarrassment, O'Connell St and the surrounding area should be a world class location and something we should all be proud of as Dubliners.

The North/South inner city divide is also very wrong, why for example in Merrion Square in better shape than Montjoy square, both are pretty identical Georgian Dublin developments yet one is now pretty much a tenement whilst the other is gleaming. Who allowed these double standards to take hold and why as nobody ever done anything about it?

Very very true. Parnell square at least will be getting a lot of money invested in it soon with the opening of the cultural quarter and library and the restorationof the georgian gardens, so thatll be a big step for the north inner city

iodd7 · 06-11-2017 1:41pm

Swanner wrote: »

Offensive to you maybe.. We don't all choose to get offended by words so speak for yourself thanks..

I agree OP. Dublin has become a kip. The city centre seems to have become a mecca for undesireables and it's generally a very unpleasant place to be imo. I would contrast that with many other European cities which are a pleasure to walk around.

Why ? Well there's no single answer but I would say a complete inability to govern ourselves effectively has a lot to do with it. Our politicians are too greedy, corrupt and busy feathering their own nests to tackle issues that effect the less fortunate in our society.

Due to its derogatory usage to describe travellers, 'knacker' IS offensive, and identified as such. For example, see the row over Phil Hogan's use of the term in March 2013 as reported widely at the time.

AlanG · 06-11-2017 2:05pm

main differences I have seen between US Cities and Dublin.
- treatment centers are in the CBD in Dublin, in the US most CBD areas are just businesses.
- there is far more of a mix between upper and lower income class areas in Dublin - in most parts of the states there are social housing projects and then there are private areas and there is very little mix between the two.
- police and judges in the states can be fired so they look after the areas that vote and pay more taxes to ensure they stay in power - this is to the detriment of poor areas but makes other areas well policed and relatively safe.
- in Dublin there are a lot of free bus passes for people with addictions so they get around more.
- in the states people are generally expected to take on a higher level of individual responsibility, in Ireland someone else, or the system is often blamed so it is more acceptable to be reliant on handouts and the state.

IMO this makes the problem more visible in Dublin but it is actually much worse in most US cities, they are just fr more segregated.

Paulzx · 06-11-2017 2:29pm

There is no "solution" to the drugs problem per se. The only way to actually rid the city of its heroin (and other drugs) problem is to somehow try and avoid people becoming addicted in the first place................

At present we have all the issues associated with illegal, addictive substances.

Addiction
Criminality at serious and petty levels
Social and medical issues.
Homelessness
Drug clinics
Anti social behaviour
Intimidation
Etc, etc, etc

Legalising drugs will probably eliminate the Serious criminal element.

Will it eliminate all the problems Personally, I don't think so. We would still have the problem of addiction with all it's consequences. The state is unlikely to provide all heroin for free so addicts will still require money to buy the legal version. I can still see petty crime being used to fund that.

The social and medical problems associated with drug abuse along with the anti social behaviour will still exist. Yes, the fact that drugs would be now legal ensures that help could be provided in a more open way will play a part in possible diminishing this problem but it will still exist.

I don't know what the answer is. I don't have strong feelings on legalising or not legalising. Neither option is a solution to all the ills of drug abuse but we certainly don't seem to be doing things right at the moment as the number of addicts is not decreasing.

Once you get on heroin it seems pretty impossible to get off for the majority of people. Not getting on it in the first place is the only solution and i have no idea how we can achieve that.

cactusgal · 06-11-2017 2:53pm

AlanG wrote: »

main differences I have seen between US Cities and Dublin.
- treatment centers are in the CBD in Dublin, in the US most CBD areas are just businesses.
- there is far more of a mix between upper and lower income class areas in Dublin - in most parts of the states there are social housing projects and then there are private areas and there is very little mix between the two.
- police and judges in the states can be fired so they look after the areas that vote and pay more taxes to ensure they stay in power - this is to the detriment of poor areas but makes other areas well policed and relatively safe.
- in Dublin there are a lot of free bus passes for people with addictions so they get around more.
- in the states people are generally expected to take on a higher level of individual responsibility, in Ireland someone else, or the system is often blamed so it is more acceptable to be reliant on handouts and the state.

IMO this makes the problem more visible in Dublin but it is actually much worse in most US cities, they are just fr more segregated.

Interesting evaluation. As as American who's been living in Dublin for many years (and a former inhabitant of a few different 'big cities' in the USA), I'd agree with these points.

alastair · 06-11-2017 3:34pm

Dublin Spur wrote: »

The North/South inner city divide is also very wrong, why for example in Merrion Square in better shape than Montjoy square, both are pretty identical Georgian Dublin developments yet one is now pretty much a tenement whilst the other is gleaming. Who allowed these double standards to take hold and why as nobody ever done anything about it?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/8-million-plan-for-restoration-of-mountjoy-square-park-1.1888517

http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content/RecreationandCulture/DublinCityParks/NewsEvents/Documents/MountjoySquareConservationPlanHistoricLandscapeStudy.pdf

Mountjoy Square is well into its major restoration and redevelopment. It’ll end up in much better shape than Merrion Square, once it’s complete tbh. It’s also utilised to a much greater extent than Merrion Square, for it’s size - and is a very pleasant place to spend an afternoon. The use of the housing stock around the park is different to Merrion Square for sure, given that there’s little residential use of Merrion Square, but it’s not quite all ‘tenements’. There’s at least three modern apartment developments, a bunch of smart owner-occupier Georgian stock, a smattering of businesses, the former DIT campus, and yes, a bunch of dense flatland conversions of the Georgian stock. The typical trend for anything Georgian sold on the square in recent times is either for owner-occupation, or short-term holiday lets. Merrion Square, lunchtime sandwiches for office workers aside, tends to be a bit dead outside the various events hosted there. So no, there’s not really much merit to the ‘double standards / nothing being done’ claim, when you look at it carefully.

Dublin Spur · 06-11-2017 4:07pm

alastair wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/8-million-plan-for-restoration-of-mountjoy-square-park-1.1888517

http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content/RecreationandCulture/DublinCityParks/NewsEvents/Documents/MountjoySquareConservationPlanHistoricLandscapeStudy.pdf

Mountjoy Square is well into its major restoration and redevelopment. It’ll end up in much better shape than Merrion Square, once it’s complete tbh. It’s also utilised to a much greater extent than Merrion Square, for it’s size - and is a very pleasant place to spend an afternoon. The use of the housing stock around the park is different to Merrion Square for sure, given that there’s little residential use of Merrion Square, but it’s not quite all ‘tenements’. There’s at least three modern apartment developments, a bunch of smart owner-occupier Georgian stock, a smattering of businesses, the former DIT campus, and yes, a bunch of dense flatland conversions of the Georgian stock. The typical trend for anything Georgian sold on the square in recent times is either for owner-occupation, or short-term holiday lets. Merrion Square, lunchtime sandwiches for office workers aside, tends to be a bit dead outside the various events hosted there. So no, there’s not really much merit to the ‘double standards / nothing being done’ claim, when you look at it carefully.

appreciate the info - good to see improvements being made

however I do think the Northern Georgian Dublin areas have been neglected massively in comparison to their southern equivalents

Fitzwilliam or Merrion Square (or Iveagh Gardens) have always been nicer, cleaner and safer than Mountjoy and Parnell Squares.
And I don't like they way one half of the city has been 'looked after' better then the other. It's very obvious if you take a walk through the city.

Another good example would be to compare the environment around the Aviva Stadum with the area around Croke Park. I hate the way some parts of the city center are neglected and others are not. It's a small city and the divide should not be so obvious.

Why there are so many junkies (chavs/knackers)in Dublin?

Comments