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Man squeezes woman's boobs too hard - it ends up in court - should it have?

  • 02-11-2017 11:08pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭


    Be interested to hear people's views on the following recent case in the UK.

    Full (very long) article can be read here but the crux of it is below:

    Junior doctor's career is in ruins after he indecently assaulted his Tinder date by grabbing and bruising her breasts during CONSENSUAL sex

    A junior doctor convicted of indecent assault after grabbing a woman's breasts during consensual sex despite her asking him not to claimed he was 'pretty passionate' because it was their 'first time'.

    Philip Queree, 37, was taken to court for repeatedly grabbing the woman's breasts and pulling her hair while the couple had intercourse after meeting on Tinder.

    Despite consenting to having sex with Queree, the victim told him she did not want her breasts touched and accused him of using 'excessive force'.

    Queree has now been placed on the Sex Offender's Register for five years - ruining his dream of becoming a doctor, according to his barrister.

    The defendant, then 36, was a mature student in the third year of study at a London medical school who was staying with his parents in Jersey in the summer holidays when he met the female healthcare worker.

    Mrs Shaw said after meeting via Tinder and getting on well during their first date they agreed to meet again two days later.

    She said on Friday, August 19 they went for a walk on the beach and had a surprise dinner at a harbour side restaurant.

    She said they agreed to stop using Tinder and to date exclusively.

    'Later that evening they went to her flat where they engaged in sexual intercourse.

    'The woman's evidence was that during intercourse he grabbed her breasts very forcibly.

    'She was in pain. At first she said nothing but moved position to avoid her breasts being touched. Again he grabbed her breasts.

    'She wanted to continue sexual intercourse but was in pain and did not want her breasts to be touched again.

    'She was crying and told him that he had been rough. She told him not to grab her breasts.

    'He apologised and agreed, after which they recommenced sexual intercourse.

    'However he grabbed her breasts again twice more in the same manner as before, causing her severe pain.'

    She said the victim was very shaken and went to the bathroom where she noticed red marks on her breasts which had developed into significant bruising.

    Queree told the court he agreed that the encounter took place but insisted that all acts were consensual.

    In his defence, Queree claimed that at no time did she tell him not to touch her breasts although he said she did at one stage ask him, in non specific terms, to be more gentle and he complied.

    The court was told: 'She had given consent to sexual intercourse and therefore had implicitly given consent to her breasts being touched in a sexual manner.

    'By her account she later specifically withdrew consent for her breasts being touched even though she continued otherwise to consent to sexual intercourse.

    'She said that he had continued to grab her breasts despite the withdrawal of consent and in the knowledge that consent had been withdrawn.'

    'After she showed him the bruise he responded that he had had rougher sex than that.

    'She did not want him to leave and did not want to believe what had happened.

    'She wanted him to stay and discuss it. His demeanour then changed. He had tears in his eyes and said he needed to go and think about what he had done to her.

    'He then stormed out the door. She was in complete and utter shock and texted him, imploring him to return.

    'She wanted him to come back and give an explanation and just could not equate his behaviour in the bedroom with his previous charming behaviour.

    In police interview Queree agreed that he had touched her breasts during sexual intercourse but felt that that was reasonable behaviour.

    Queree said the intercourse was 'pretty passionate as befits two people engaging in their first sexual encounter.'

    But Mrs Shaw rejected his version of events and found him guilty of indecent assault.

    In conclusion, she said: 'I am sure that she withdrew her consent for him to grab her breasts; but he knew this and continued to do so forcefully, causing her severe pain.

    'This was an assault. He touched a sexual and intimate part of her body in a sexual manner without her consent.

    'Irrespective of her consent to other sexual conduct, I am sure that the touching was in circumstances of indecency and thus he is guilty of indecent assault.

    'I find it credible that she wanted to continue sexual intercourse but that she tried to put a limit on his conduct and asked him not to grab her painful breasts again.

    In deciding to put Queree on the Sex Offenders Register, she said: 'I am concerned that you pose a risk of sexual harm to others.'

    Advocate David Steenson, defending, said that the case had ruined the defendant's life.

    On a personal level: I've had women scratch my back (so bad it's drawn blood after having told them to quit) and also once had a woman bite my feckin tongue so bad it swelled up. So, simply decided not to see either nut job again. Unless I was drunk. But, do I feel that either of them should have been charged and placed on the sexual offenders register? No, of course I bloody well don't.

    Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that if some woman went full Catherine Tramell on me that I'd feel it okay for her to have done so given that I'd consented to have sexual intercourse with her, but surely there is a level of personal responsibility that people need to take for what happens them when engaged in sexual hi-jinks and I don't see that line was really crossed here. If he whipped out some metal nipple clamps and started dragging her round the room, resulting in her ending up in casualty.... course the guy (or girl) should be charged, and conceivably for some things not so violent to (just using that as a an example).

    Imo, this girl should just have asked this guy to leave once it became apparent that he had no consideration for how she felt.

    So, what says you...................

    Should this have ended up in court? Or did this fall within the boundaries of personal responsibility?

    Should this case have ended up in court? 310 votes

    Yes, of course it should, in fact I'd like to see it happen more often.
    0%
    No it shouldn't, are you mad!
    27%
    GraysonVictorMrPuddingSteve_oJupiterKidScraggsIshmaelhatrickpatrickdeisemumShenshenSham SquireHoagyMr. Incognitomacrubiconredfacedbear[Deleted User]TootssupermouseLollipops23Pixied 86 votes
    I can't decide. I'm on the fence. Perhaps. Maybe. Who's to say really.
    55%
    BigConCalhounTony HNollog[Deleted User]xabiRhymePixelTrawlerhomerjay2005MorporkBlaasForRafaphill106twilight_singertoxicity234fatbhoyomega manPappacharliejohnnysmackMiss OMMCJohnnio13 172 votes
    I thought no but then I seen his picture and changed my mind. I know, unfair, but life's unfair.
    16%
    SimiSand[Deleted User]tony-odCinaDave147WibbsFergusFSlippin Jimmypunk_one82FloppybitsphilstartrellheimCB19KevomahamageehadPotential-MonkeCruelCoinSIRREXcharlietheminxxSeaFields 52 votes


«1345678

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,138 ✭✭✭✭Tom Mann Centuria


    No it shouldn't, are you mad!
    Title reads like the boob is having its day in court.

    Oh well, give me an easy life and a peaceful death.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,132 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    So, simply decided not to see either nut job again. Unless I was drunk.


    I lolled


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,902 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    Must have been bad if she went that far with it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭jonon9


    Jaysus the fcuking head in him :)

    Some women like it rough some dont.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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  • Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No it shouldn't, are you mad!
    "woman squeezes man's balls too hard during consensual sex, after which consent was withdrawn, amounting to assault. It ends up in court. Should it have?"


    YES


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,316 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    #myboobstoo


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,132 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    #MAGA


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I can't decide. I'm on the fence. Perhaps. Maybe. Who's to say really.
    Bad enough your surname being Queree but to be on the sex offenders registry too :0


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 473 ✭✭DaithiMa


    This is absolutely mental. What is going on in the world. Squeeze boobs while having sex? Sex offenders register for 5 years!! Surely that is a bit harsh.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,390 ✭✭✭Bowlardo


    Considering ireland is short of doctors , i think we should employee a moneyball strategy to hiring doctors that are shafted for something minor like.
    We'd save a fortune, doctor is greatful for a job, we gain a doctor to our hse register...everyone's a winner


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donal55


    I can't decide. I'm on the fence. Perhaps. Maybe. Who's to say really.
    Consented to sex but didn't want her tits touched.

    He should've brought the handcuffs or cable ties.







    For himself.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,166 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    Sounds like a booby trap...


  • Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No it shouldn't, are you mad!
    DaithiMa wrote: »
    This is absolutely mental. What is going on in the world. Squeeze boobs while having sex? Sex offenders register for 5 years!!
    No.

    He repeatedly injured her after he was asked to stop, ie consent was withdrawn.

    I can only hope that anyone who thinks it's appropriate to injure a woman during sex, against her wishes, is some virgin who's been spending too much time on adult video sites.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭jonon9


    Donal55 wrote: »
    Consented to sex but didn't want her tits touched!

    Thats the part I dont understand. I thought a womans vagina would be more of a sacred ground than her diddies. Were they on display with a sign saying look but dont touch maybe she should has said that before having sex.

    The way I see it is the guy got too rough and let his knob do the thinking but to be on the sex offenders list is a little too far.

    Lesson to future guys if your going to have sex make sure you ask questions first it might kill the mood somewhat but its better than been branded a rapist.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    He repeatedly injured her after he was asked to stop, ie consent was withdrawn.

    To what degree though? Not like she needed medical treatment.

    If she did, I'd agree, but she didn't and so I don't.

    To further my earlier point: if a woman scratches me and I tell her to stop, and she continues, surely I have to take an element of responsibility if she does so again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Was he swinging off them or what?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,221 ✭✭✭A_Sober_Paddy


    I can't decide. I'm on the fence. Perhaps. Maybe. Who's to say really.
    Once had my back cut up with long nails, drew blood, was just passionate and got a bit outta hand. But I was like whatever no harm done long term. I wish people would just have a bit of cop on


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    To what degree though? Not like she needed medical treatment.

    If she did, I'd agree, but she didn't and so I don't.

    To further my earlier point: if a woman scratches me and I tell her to stop, and she continues, surely I have to take an element of responsibility if she does so again.

    Ah Mr. Hook there you are.

    She asked him repeatedly to stop touching her breasts. He didn't, he continued to the point of causing her trauma (bruising). Where's his responsibility here?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭jonon9


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    She did not want him to leave and did not want to believe what had happened.

    'She wanted him to stay and discuss it. His demeanour then changed. He had tears in his eyes and said he needed to go and think about what he had done to her.

    'He then stormed out the door. She was in complete and utter shock and texted him, imploring him to return.

    She wanted him to stay and discuss it which to me she didnt seem to shook up.
    It wasnt like a full on rape it was sex that got a bit rough and he squeezed her breast abit hard, yes he was a right fool for doing it but to be on the sex offenders list......


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    No it shouldn't, are you mad!
    jonon9 wrote: »
    Lesson to future guys if your going to have sex make sure you ask questions first it might kill the mood somewhat but its better than been branded a rapist.

    Alternatively, just listen to the person with whom you're having sex. If they tell you not to grab a specific part of their body, don't grab it... and definitely don't bruise it.

    Ignorance of the whole concept of consent on After Hours never ceases to amaze me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Well, if the complaint the degree of force used (which it is here) then yes I do. How else can we measure if someone has been too forceful otherwise.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think in any case where a person injures another, causes severe pain, bruising, bleeding...well they're straying into territory where they take their chances. The simplest course would be to refrain, rather than continue and hope that the consent was so clear and unequivocal that they'd have no grounds for complaint afterwards.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    jonon9 wrote: »
    Jaysus the fcuking head in him :)

    Some women like it rough some dont.

    He looks like a right tosser. The kind of guy lots of women go mad for but lots of guys see him for the wanker he is


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    I thought no but then I seen his picture and changed my mind. I know, unfair, but life's unfair.
    jonon9 wrote: »
    Thats the part I dont understand. I thought a womans vagina would be more of a sacred ground than her diddies. Were they on display with a sign saying look but dont touch maybe she should has said that before having sex.

    She only said that after he grabbed them "forcibly", causing her pain...
    Lesson to future guys if your going to have sex make sure you ask questions first it might kill the mood somewhat but its better than been branded a rapist.

    Lesson to future guys and gals, if someone tells you you're hurting them, stop doing what you're doing, you're clearly doing it wrong.


  • Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No it shouldn't, are you mad!
    To what degree though? Not like she needed medical treatment.

    If she did, I'd agree, but she didn't and so I don't.

    To further my earlier point: if a woman scratches me and I tell her to stop, and she continues, surely I have to take an element of responsibility if she does so again.
    So, what... If I grab a woman by the vagina, it isn't as assault because she doesn't need medical treatment??

    Genuine question. Not sure I understand what point you're making here.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭jonon9


    RayM wrote: »
    Alternatively, just listen to the person with whom you're having sex. If they tell you not to grab a specific part of their body, don't grab it... and definitely don't bruise it.

    Ignorance of the whole concept of consent on After Hours never ceases to amaze me.

    If she didnt want her breast touched than she should have made it clear from the start guys are mind readers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donal55


    I can't decide. I'm on the fence. Perhaps. Maybe. Who's to say really.
    RayM wrote: »
    Alternatively, just listen to the person with whom you're having sex. If they tell you not to grab a specific part of their body, don't grab it... and definitely don't bruise it.

    Ignorance of the whole concept of consent on After Hours never ceases to amaze me.

    Its After Hours for a reason.
    Personal Relations is thataway>>>>>>


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Sentence does seem excessive though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 440 ✭✭GritBiscuit


    Would be interesting to read the full court report as to why the magistrate thought he posed a risk of sexual harm to others and a restraining order was necessary...either way, fully expect Mr Queree to appeal against the conviction.

    I guess the bottom line is; if someone asks you to stop touching their body in whatever specific fashion, the sensible thing to do is to respect those wishes.


  • Posts: 21,679 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't know what to think.

    The problem seems to be that the man touched her breasts in such a way as to cause pain. The woman told him to stop and he did so. However he then started again causing further upset. In my opinion this wasn't right and he should have been respectful of her wishes.

    If it were me I would have quickly told him to cut it out unless he wanted his balls squeezed in the same manner and that would be the end of it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    Not saying what he did was OK but his career and life destroyed and ending up on the sex offenders register is way OTT in my opinion in this particular case.

    I've had someone scratch my back quite badly once, I asked them to stop and they apologised, only to do it again - enough to most definitely visible marks that were visible for days. I told them I was being genuinely seriously, and if they did it again that was it....and they did, and that was it, I was done.

    Never would occur to me to consider it a grave sexual assault and that the onus was on me to shine the spotlight of the law of this menace to society to ensure they could never harm anyone ever again.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    No it shouldn't, are you mad!
    jonon9 wrote: »
    If she didnt want her breast touched than she should have made it clear from the start guys are mind readers.

    I suggest you read the article.
    Donal55 wrote:
    Its After Hours for a reason.
    Personal Relations is thataway>>>>>>

    Your post makes no sense.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    I thought no but then I seen his picture and changed my mind. I know, unfair, but life's unfair.
    jonon9 wrote: »
    If she didnt want her breast touched than she should have made it clear from the start guys are mind readers.

    She probably wanted them touched... just not grabbed and bruised. Theres a not so subtle difference there between the two.


  • Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No it shouldn't, are you mad!
    professore wrote: »
    Sentence does seem excessive though.
    He received a non custodial sentence. His only obligation is to inform the Police of his whereabouts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    She should have grabbed him by the balls and squeezed. When he begged her to stop, squeeze harder. What kind of a wanker pinches a woman's boobs against her will? Pathetic.

    On the other hand, she thought she'd snagged a doctor, he just played her until he got the ride, then dumped her, she got bitter and took him to court.

    Having seen the photo, he's in the wrong. There you have it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭jonon9


    RayM wrote: »
    I suggest you read the article.



    Your post makes no sense.[/QU

    I have read it. Bottom line is the guy is a idiot for doing what he did, The lady didn't seem too traumatized if she wanted her "attacher" to stay and discuss it.

    What he should of got was a serious warning and a fine but not the sex offenders list.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    professore wrote: »
    Sentence does seem excessive though.
    He received a non custodial sentence. His only obligation is to inform the Police of his whereabouts.

    His life is ruined though. All his expensive education down the drain.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    This is the most sensible thing to do.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 473 ✭✭DaithiMa


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Okay he should have stopped squeezing after being asked to. That is fair enough.But I still think 5 years on a sex offenders register is harsh considering it was during a consensual moment of passion, especially as she continued having sex with him after the first offence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,769 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Probably an easy explanation for this.

    Doc:there seems to be a problem with your breasts, can I weigh them for you?

    Her:ok, you’re a qualified doctor after all

    Doc: cupping breasts, says “whaaaaaaay”


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    To paraphrase "don't let crazy stick a dick in you"

    He deserves some punishment for being a sh1t, but the sex offenders register is a bit OTT, in that it might diminish "proper" sexual assaults.

    Hope she isn't planning on breastfeeding ever, the poor baby might get an ASBO


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    January wrote: »
    She asked him repeatedly to stop touching her breasts.

    He didn't, he continued to the point of causing her trauma (bruising).

    Aye, that's why in the OP I said that the guy showed:
    ....no consideration for how she felt.

    With regards to responsibility: he should have been accepting responsibility for why he had just been told to get the fcuk out of a girl's apartment.


  • Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No it shouldn't, are you mad!
    Not saying what he did was OK but his career and life destroyed and ending up on the sex offenders list
    First of all, being on the sex offenders list in this case has a finite limit. I'm not sure what stage of med school he's in, but it will only be five years. Not a lifetime, or even a decade.

    Second of all, even if it were a longer time on the sex offenders list, it wouldn't have been an end to his career. Many doctors have lucrative careers outside of practice, such as in the pharmaceutical industry, other research, or even in corporate life- their skills of problem solving and track record in commitment to academic study are highly valued, and well remunerated, by employers.

    In short, I wouldn't worry. I genuinely don't think his professional career will suffer, but there has to be a price to pay when you decide to assault someone.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    I can't decide. I'm on the fence. Perhaps. Maybe. Who's to say really.
    I'm actually not sure what to think on this one. On the one hand I think what the fcuk she told him to stop numerous times and not only continued but he caused her physical harm, and he deserves to be punished for that- But on the sex offenders register and potential career struck off over it seems a bit harsh, no?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,070 ✭✭✭LadyMacBeth_


    From the snippet that I read, it sounds like she was grand with him touching her diddies at first, it was just when he kept squeezing the bejaysis out of them that it became a problem for her. Fair enough if she's not into having her boobs squeezed until they bruise, I wouldn't be a fan of that myself! The poor girl was crying and he still didn't stop doing it. I've sometimes had to say ''oh that hurts'' or whatever and the fella would stop what he was doing or change it, I wouldn't expect him to keep doing it. I think it was assault. Now would I personally go to court with it? No, I don't think I would. I'd think that he's a prick and I wouldn't talk to him again, but maybe she was worried he'd do the same or worse to someone else. I do feel sorry for him that he will be on the sex offender's register though and that he can no longer continue studying to be a doctor, for a one off minor offence like this then I think it's a harsh penalty to pay.


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