Why is it normal/OK to be obese in Ireland?.

uch · 08-10-2017 01:06AM

You sir/ or Madam are the reason there is hope in this world, with a few more people with attitudes like this we'd be ok, I'm a recovering Junkie, and I was 17.5 stone a few months ago, but with encouragement from Weight watchers, which is similar to slimming world, I've lost 3 stone, I'm still a munter, but a healthier one

Uosdwis R. Dewoh wrote: »

I used to have a harsh attitude towards obese people - I might still be considered to have one, but I have definitely gained more empathy in some respects. And it's not because I gained weight. I actually did, but that made me even more uncharitable towards obese people because I was thinking "Even being a bit overweight is fairly sh-t and I'm going to do something about it, so why wouldn't obese people do something about it before it got that way?" And doing something about it was still hard, even though it wasn't much compared to what an obese person would have to do to shed the weight.

I used to think obese people were all merely gluttonous, as if they could just stop the over-eating on a whim, whereas now I know food addiction, like drug/alcohol/gambling addiction, is a real thing.

You know those times when you just cannot stop eating crap for a few hours - maybe not everyone does, but I do very occasionally - well imagine feeling like that all the time: that's food addiction.

I don't agree with the "Big is beautiful" thing, I don't agree with the way some obese people act as though the world has to accommodate them or find them attractive, Health At Every Size is bullsh-t, and I do think it's very unattractive (the same way as I think being emaciated is very unattractive, or the way someone's body being destroyed by heroin would repulse me - it's an involuntary response). I don't think there is anything wrong with wincing at the unhealthy aspects, the damage that is being done to their bodies (the same, as I said, with underweight people or drug addicts, or people who are bulked up to oblivion via anabolic steroids) but I also realise that nobody (apart from members of extreme fetishist groups, and many of them are probably in denial) actually wants to feel that way, nobody wants to be massively overweight with all the additional problems it brings (even buying clothes must be a nightmare).

A hugely increased chance of arthritis, diabetes, heart disease and cancer is no way to live, but encouragement to change seems to be a more beneficial tool in my opinion. I think Slimming World seems like a great programme as it adjusts the person's mindset and they won't feel hungry on the programme. Yet they lose piles of weight and manage to stick to it.

alan partridge aha · 08-10-2017 01:18AM

Started on a detox diet 2 weeks ago. My left ankle has been giving me trouble for a long time but it got really bad
A few months ago.

Decided not to go the doctor route instead went to this reflexologist who has informed me that I full of acid and need to change. My digestive system wasn't working properly plus other things.

I'm at least 5 stone over what I should be and I know that I have to change my lifestyle. If not I'll end up with long term problems.

So 2 weeks in and it ain't to bad, no red meat no alcohol no tea or coffee but it's only for another 4 weeks till my body fully detoxes. After that I have to watch what I eat and hopefully things will improve with weight loss and aches and pains.

bilbot79 · 08-10-2017 01:18AM

Hammer89 wrote: »

......And who is suggesting that it's good to remain obese? OP might very well be an absolute genius. This was a masterstroke in deception.

I'm going to start a thread asking why it's normal/okay for Irish people to be sh*tting in sinks. Then I'm going to make up a bunch of anecdotes about how often I've seen and heard about it. Then hopefully people will think, 'I completely agree. Sh*tting in sinks is horrendous carry on so it is' but it's a phenomenon which doesn't exist and neither does the narrative that Ireland is some sort of pro-obesity nation whose obese population are encouraged to glorify their lifestyle. He made it up. He's Kevin Spacey in The Usual Suspects and hopefully this is where your mug drops on the floor.

There is no Keyser Soze and there is no acceptance toward obesity in Irish society. I wish I could continue The Usual Suspects theme and say 'My guess is you'll never hear from OP again' but he'll be here tomorrow claiming he just saw a 18-stone woman win Miss Ireland or some other lie which supports his fake argument that Irish society encourages obesity.

I think there is acceptance of obesity to a certain extent. You see it in social media and even in the lyrics of songs like John Legend describing the girls curves and perfect imperfections. I think societies such as France have 'herd immunity' against obesity. They look at their thin counterparts and can't bear to drift from the crowd.

In America the herd immunity is completely gone. 30 year olds going around theme parks in battery powered carts while the children are made run after it. Yet no-one bats an eyelid. If enough people are also obese the judgementalness ends because they know they too are overweight.

Here in Ireland we definitely have a high proportion of obese people now, probably all forgiving each other for it. I'm a devil for junk food myself but I make a rule that I'm never buying clothes a size up. If it gets too tight, get to the gym!

The my general statement on the matter though I do acknowledge that some people are naturally chunky and aren't necessarily responsible. That said if your eating crisps and burgers it's your own fault, hands down.

uch · 08-10-2017 01:34AM

alan partridge aha wrote: »

Started on a detox diet 2 weeks ago. My left ankle has been giving me trouble for a long time but it got really bad
A few months ago.

Decided not to go the doctor route instead went to this reflexologist who has informed me that I full of acid and need to change. My digestive system wasn't working properly plus other things.

I'm at least 5 stone over what I should be and I know that I have to change my lifestyle. If not I'll end up with long term problems.

So 2 weeks in and it ain't to bad, no red meat no alcohol no tea or coffee but it's only for another 4 weeks till my body fully detoxes. After that I have to watch what I eat and hopefully things will improve with weight loss and aches and pains.

No such thing as a detox my friend, you're coddin yerself, I'm not slagging cause I'm a munter myself, just give up the sugar and sweets, few pints the weekend OK, but eat healthy and don't waste yer money on mongo's

alan partridge aha · 08-10-2017 01:46AM

uch wrote: »

No such thing as a detox my friend, you're coddin yerself, I'm not slagging cause I'm a munter myself, just give up the sugar and sweets, few pints the weekend OK, but eat healthy and don't waste yer money on mongo's

You're properly right but I've started so I'll finish the course and see after that. O

Hammer89 · 08-10-2017 02:41AM

bilbot79 wrote: »

I think there is acceptance of obesity to a certain extent. You see it in social media and even in the lyrics of songs like John Legend describing the girls curves and perfect imperfections.

You need only see the woman in the video to know that isn't what John is singing about.

It's not your one from Precious

.

Uosdwis R. Dewoh · 08-10-2017 12:05PM

Just because the term "curvy" gets misused, doesn't mean it isn't used in its correct sense either! There is absolutely no evidence John Legend is referring to an obese woman in that song. And as Hammer says, if the video is anything to go by, he's not referring even to a slightly overweight woman either. As for imperfections, we all have them, including the very slim.

In some contexts, yes I agree obesity is celebrated or there is ambivalence to it/defence of it - but equally there is (rightly) resistance to it. That resistance can be articulated without yelling insults though (although I know that some are insulted full stop by being told obesity is unattractive).

uch wrote: »

You sir/ or Madam are the reason there is hope in this world, with a few more people with attitudes like this we'd be ok, I'm a recovering Junkie, and I was 17.5 stone a few months ago, but with encouragement from Weight watchers, which is similar to slimming world, I've lost 3 stone

Many thanks - most kind of you!

Seems like one addiction got replaced with another? That is a particularly tough context. Big well done on your great weight loss achievement, and massive well done on kicking the gear!

mickrock · 08-10-2017 03:31PM

alan partridge aha wrote: »

You're properly right but I've started so I'll finish the course and see after that. O

Alan, I'm sure you'll bounce back.

Nettle Soup · 08-10-2017 04:25PM

bilbot79 wrote: »

It's the supermacs effect

All Ireland Hurling champions baby!

Carlos Orange · 08-10-2017 05:57PM

Hammer89 wrote: »

By the way, one of the hardest things about losing a lot of weight in my experience isn't the overhaul of eatings habits or the exercise - it's the realisation that you are treated better when you don't look like such an oddity. People of both sexes and all ages are waaaay nicer to you.

This isn't neurosis - it's a real thing which a lot of people report after losing a lot of weight.

Can't say I have noticed this. When is it supposed to kick in?

Hammer89 · 08-10-2017 06:45PM

Did you go from obesity or morbid obesity to a healthy weight?

IamtheWalrus · 08-10-2017 06:54PM

I used to be critical of fat people, in an insecure-judging-others-to-make-myself-feel-less-shitty kind of way but having done some work in mental health, I now see the reasons behind obesity and now I have empathy with fat people. They must be having a hard time with their demons, just like we all do, it's just they deal with them differently than I do.

I used to have this kind of oneupmanship re dealing with my crap; 'oh I might have crap to deal with but I don't numb myself with <insert addiction>'. But I do numb myself with other things, like anger as a distraction and the thing is, just like those with food addiction.. I can't stop it! God knows I've tried.

So no more judgement from me. I'm no better.

Carlos Orange · 08-10-2017 07:08PM

Hammer89 wrote: »

Did you go from obesity or morbid obesity to a healthy weight?

Obese to healthy. Lost about 30kg.

764dak · 16-09-2018 01:10AM

mickrock wrote: »

NEWSFLASH!

It seems that being "overweight" is healthier than being of "normal" weight. Although scientific studies indicate this, it's not considered PC to promote this sort of information. Here's what Dr Malcolm Kendrick has to say:

'Despite the fact that study after study has demonstrated quite clearly that "overweight" people live the longest, no one can bring themselves to say: "Sorry, we were wrong. A BMI between 25 and 29 is the healthiest weight of all. For those of you between 20 and 25, I say, eat more, become healthier." Who would dare say such a thing? Not anyone with tenure at a leading university, that's for sure.

In truth, this discussion should not quite stop here. For even when we get into those with a BMI greater than 30, those who truly are defined as "obese", the health dangers are greatly overestimated, mainly because of the widespread use of what I call the statistical "clumping game". Obesity researchers are world-leading experts at the clumping game. In most studies, the entire population is divided ("clumped") into four groups: underweight, normal weight, overweight and obese – obese being defined as a BMI of 30 and above. That means those with a BMI of 31 are clumped together as part of a group which includes those with a BMI of 50 – and above. What does this tell us about the health problems of having a BMI of 31? Well, absolutely nothing.

There is no doubt that becoming heavier and heavier must, at some point, damage your health and reduce your life expectancy. Where is this point? Well, it is certainly not anywhere between 25 and 30, and it could be even higher. Indeed, I have seen research on Italian women showing that a BMI of 33 was associated with the longest life expectancy. In other studies, where obesity was actually further sub-divided, those with a BMI between 30 and 35 lived longer than those of so-called "normal" weight.'

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/why-being-overweight-means-you-live-longer-the-way-scientists-twist-the-facts-10158229.html

Obesity paradox has been debunked:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=obesity+paradox+debunked&safe=off&biw=1366&bih=584&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A9%2F15%2F2016%2Ccd_max%3A9%2F15%2F2018&tbm=

con___manx1 · 16-09-2018 02:57AM

The first thing the govement needs to do is tax sugary drinks like coke to the hilt.
Its a major factor to obesity especially in kids. My parents rarely had fizzy drinks in the house when we were kids but there are so many obese kids now where the parents are buying tanks of this crap for them. I honestly think parents should be jailed for that. Its child abuse in my eyes anyway.

16-09-2018 03:25AM

con___manx1 wrote: »

The first thing the govement needs to do is tax sugary drinks like coke to the hilt.
Its a major factor to obesity especially in kids. My parents rarely had fizzy drinks in the house when we were kids but there are so many obese kids now where the parents are buying tanks of this crap for them. I honestly think parents should be jailed for that. Its child abuse in my eyes anyway.

Fúck that. I shouldn't have to pay through the nose for a Coke because other people can't control themselves or because parents can't parent. We're already paying a sugar tax on soft drinks, and it will make very little difference to the national obesity rates.

We really need to figure out a way to solve such problems without trying to tax our way out of them.

MarkY91 · 16-09-2018 10:37AM

Seen a kid yesterday who was so obese he could barely walk down the street. He was scoffing a bag of chickatee crisps....

His ma was the typical teenage inner city ma so the poor kid would obviously be getting fed crap for every meal.

tedpan · 16-09-2018 12:12PM

con___manx1 wrote:

The first thing the govement needs to do is tax sugary drinks like coke to the hilt. Its a major factor to obesity especially in kids. My parents rarely had fizzy drinks in the house when we were kids but there are so many obese kids now where the parents are buying tanks of this crap for them. I honestly think parents should be jailed for that. Its child abuse in my eyes anyway.

You may as well ban all soft drinks, the diet or no sugar options are far worse for you with ingredients like phenylaniline and aspartame.

Crea · 16-09-2018 12:38PM

Pat Mustard wrote: »

I think that maybe there are two questions. The first question is why are so many people fat now, as opposed to previous decades?

The correct answer to that has been given many times before and can be explained very thoroughly by better people than me but the answer can boil down to the fact that there is sugar in our food everywhere and it's hard to avoid.

Somewhat overly simplistic answer number one: Sugar.

The second question is a bit different, and it is why is there a normalization of obesity. I'm not sure if the correct answer has been established in that regard but I suppose that it takes a while for people to adjust. Up to recently, we were being told that fat was bad and that we had to reduce fat, all the while nobody was saying anything about sugar. And people became fatter while following this poor advice.

Now we know that sugar is bad and many fats are good but it still takes a while to adjust. Back in the eighties and earlier, most Irish people were slim. These slim people might be looked on as skinny now. We have adjusted to a situation where large sections of the population are overweight. It will take a while to adjust back to a situation where it will no longer be normal for so many people to be overweight.

Somewhat overly simplistic answer number two: It takes a while to adjust.

It's actually not that difficult to avoid sugar if you cook from scratch.
People constantly eating processed ready made ****e are loading themselves with fat and sugar.

Graces7 · 16-09-2018 01:58PM

Hammer89 wrote: »

Did you go from obesity or morbid obesity to a healthy weight?

I was once obese.. after being slender. Got down to a better weight but still would have liked to be less.. since I came to Ireland I have lost weight and cannot put it on, even when under weight.

PS sugar in moderation is not "bad". The anti sugar obsession is unhealthy.

silverharp · 16-09-2018 02:20PM

Graces7 wrote: »

PS sugar in moderation is not "bad". The anti sugar obsession is unhealthy.

what does moderation even mean? to me moderation would be the amount of sugar consumed a 100 or 200 years ago assuming you mean not including sugar in natural whole foods and secondly someone who has lived 30 or 40 years on a high sugar diet should probably eat less sugar than someone who happened to have a healthy diet.

wakka12 · 16-09-2018 02:44PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Fúck that. I shouldn't have to pay through the nose for a Coke because other people can't control themselves or because parents can't parent. We're already paying a sugar tax on soft drinks, and it will make very little difference to the national obesity rates.

We really need to figure out a way to solve such problems without trying to tax our way out of them.

Yeh taxing is not the way to go. Fat people know they're fat, and I don't see the big deal with there being fat people but it seems to really get under most peoples skin for some reason, but the health information is widely available , we are bombarded by it, every single person knows the negative effects of over eating and lack of exercise, everyone knows whats healthy, we are independent adults, and should be left to our own accords. it shouldn't be anyones problem to try and make people skinny. I don't get why it can't just be left the way it is, whats the big problem with people being fat, everyone would be better off just caring about themselves
And I don't buy the extra taxes because of the health services obese people demand, there are plenty of other mental and physical illnesses caused partly or largely by lifestyle that will result in minor tax increases for everyone but nobody cares about that, I think those people making that argument just hate looking at fat people tbh

Graces7 · 16-09-2018 03:48PM

silverharp wrote: »

what does moderation even mean? to me moderation would be the amount of sugar consumed a 100 or 200 years ago assuming you mean not including sugar in natural whole foods and secondly someone who has lived 30 or 40 years on a high sugar diet should probably eat less sugar than someone who happened to have a healthy diet.

I mean not obsessing. It has become almost a religion. Like the term "healthy diet" which has no real universal meaning. Just.... jargon. guitl tripping... Food is or should be a pleasure,

If you are not overweight/underweight or suffering some obvious nutritional lack?

"you should"?

and as a previous poster says, judging folk by their weight or appearance?

silverharp · 16-09-2018 10:23PM

Graces7 wrote: »

I mean not obsessing. It has become almost a religion. Like the term "healthy diet" which has no real universal meaning. Just.... jargon. guitl tripping... Food is or should be a pleasure,

If you are not overweight/underweight or suffering some obvious nutritional lack?

"you should"?

and as a previous poster says, judging folk by their weight or appearance?

people that arent obese are getting type 2 as well. no parent would hand their kids cigarettes but giving them of 500kg of sugar before they can make their own choices....

17-09-2018 11:29AM

tedpan wrote: »

You may as well ban all soft drinks, the diet or no sugar options are far worse for you with ingredients like phenylaniline and aspartame.

I totally disagree with any form of sugar tax but this is a total myth peddled about aspartame being bad for you.

con___manx1 · 18-09-2018 05:01AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Fúck that. I shouldn't have to pay through the nose for a Coke because other people can't control themselves or because parents can't parent. We're already paying a sugar tax on soft drinks, and it will make very little difference to the national obesity rates.

We really need to figure out a way to solve such problems without trying to tax our way out of them.

Well why should we pay through the nose for alcahol because other people cant control themselves ? We will very soon thanks to that idiot simon harris.

AudreyHepburn · 18-09-2018 07:55AM

This era of ‘Big Is Beautiful’ and plus size models has a lot to answer for. We wouldn’t dream of celebrating or pussyfooting around someone who was dangerously underweight so why has it been decided that it’s ok promote obesity?

And it’s not just about appearance no matter how much some of us would like it to be. Obesity is dangerous to your health in too many ways to count.

I am another who thinks very hard of paying extra for anyone who can’t/won’t control their eating and/or refuses to exercise.

Zubeneschamali · 18-09-2018 09:32AM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

We wouldn’t dream of celebrating or pussyfooting around someone who was dangerously underweight

The fashion industry has been doing exactly that for 40 years.

greenspurs · 18-09-2018 10:05AM

Youd think that the amount of people wearing grey tracksuits, and lycra leggings that we would be the fittest country in the world ..................................

Carlos Orange · 18-09-2018 10:09AM

greenspurs wrote: »

Youd think that the amount of people wearing grey tracksuits, and lycra leggings that we would be the fittest country in the world ..................................

That is probably related to the way people think walking for 15 minutes is exercise.

Why is it normal/OK to be obese in Ireland?.

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