Why is it normal/OK to be obese in Ireland?.

Blacktie.

stratowide wrote: »

I'd agree with all the above.We are being peddled nonsense about nutrition.

But surely in this day and age ignorance of good nutrition is no excuse.
All the information is out there for anyone to educate themselves.

People need to take a bit more responsibility for themselves.

While this is true it takes a good while to filter the good from the bad. You have everyone screaming out their magic pill for you. You have the keto diet, vegan, vegetarian, paleo, low fat, low carb, carnivore diet, primal etc etc. It's not as easy as the information is all there, how do you not just get it!

silverharp

stratowide wrote: »

I'd agree with all the above.We are being peddled nonsense about nutrition.

But surely in this day and age ignorance of good nutrition is no excuse.
All the information is out there for anyone to educate themselves.

People need to take a bit more responsibility for themselves.

youre right, I'd love to have the info I do now that simply wasn't available in any accessible way in the past. Essentially you have to be a bit of a skeptic but nobody is telling people to be skeptics. I guess over time a newer generation of doctors and dieticians might nudge things the right way or people will change by example

Chinasea

sibergoth wrote: »

have you been to America ?

Yes and we are on par if not worse.

mathie

Blacktie. wrote: »

While this is true it takes a good while to filter the good from the bad. You have everyone screaming out their magic pill for you. You have the keto diet, vegan, vegetarian, paleo, low fat, low carb, carnivore diet, primal etc etc. It's not as easy as the information is all there, how do you not just get it!

And amidst all the confusion of being told X is healthy one day and X is unhealthy the next we have the masses just going "you can't win" and not bothering in the slightest.

It's like a crutch to eat garbage.

shesty

I started using an app last year to track food intake.Started at 1200calories a day.

There is so little in 1200 calories.And there is so much food.I mean it's everywhere!!!I am not obese, I could do with losing maybe a stone.I am active fit and healthy and this was part of me reforming my habits.But the first while it really sank in how much food there is pushed in our faces everywhere - I mean I walk down the street of my local town, and there's numerous coffee shops with cakes, there's grocery shops with a huge range of sweets and chocolate front and centre everywhere, and that's not counting takeaways-burgers, chips, pizza, thai,indian,chinese etc (which I don't eat).

It is really hard to resist and a simple thing like meeting a friend for a cup of coffee and maybe a scone drives you a good 400cal over the 1200 limit, assuming you also eat a breakfast, lunch and dinner ....and nothing else.

I have no solution really other than to start realising we need to completely reform our eating habits and start teaching them that young.It's a massive problem

.......

Chinasea wrote: »

Yes and we are on par if not worse.

You clearly havent been to Texas then.

Chinasea

....... wrote: »

You clearly havent been to Texas then.

Indeed I have.

.......

Chinasea wrote: »

Indeed I have.

Well you must have been to the skinny corner because walking down O Connell street in Dublin you will not see anywhere NEAR the level of obesity you will see in downtown Dallas.

The sizes simply dont compare. You will see a lot of overweight people in Ireland. But you wont see anywhere near as many as the truly staggering morbid obese you see in the US where people are going round on little golf carts because they cant walk anymore.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

shesty wrote: »

I started using an app last year to track food intake.Started at 1200calories a day.

There is so little in 1200 calories.And there is so much food.I mean it's everywhere!!!I am not obese, I could do with losing maybe a stone.I am active fit and healthy and this was part of me reforming my habits.But the first while it really sank in how much food there is pushed in our faces everywhere - I mean I walk down the street of my local town, and there's numerous coffee shops with cakes, there's grocery shops with a huge range of sweets and chocolate front and centre everywhere, and that's not counting takeaways-burgers, chips, pizza, thai,indian,chinese etc (which I don't eat).

It is really hard to resist and a simple thing like meeting a friend for a cup of coffee and maybe a scone drives you a good 400cal over the 1200 limit, assuming you also eat a breakfast, lunch and dinner ....and nothing else.

I have no solution really other than to start realising we need to completely reform our eating habits and start teaching them that young.It's a massive problem

I think portion sizes are a big problem. I was watching a documentary style thing set in the 70s the other night, and the dinner plates they used would be considered as large side plates nowadays. It's the same when you eat out - every sandwich comes with crisps or chips, a side of potatoes is usually enough for at least two people, a slice of cake is a huge big wodge.

We really need to start getting used to more normal portion sizes. There's a point where you've had enough food to fill you but just keep eating because it's there in front of you and it seems a shame to waste it. You can easily consume several hundred unnecessary calories a day that way.

Chinasea

....... wrote: »

Well you must have been to the skinny corner because walking down O Connell street in Dublin you will not see anywhere NEAR the level of obesity you will see in downtown Dallas.

The sizes simply dont compare. You will see a lot of overweight people in Ireland. But you wont see anywhere near as many as the truly staggering morbid obese you see in the US where people are going round on little golf carts because they cant walk anymore.

OK we see different things.

Either way it is not a competition that either country should be in sadly.

Look at the likes of Dealz. They are everywhere now and sell mountains of junk for nott'in.

Junior Famous Hornet

Junior Famous Hornet wrote: »

I think portion sizes are a big problem. I was watching a documentary style thing set in the 70s the other night, and the dinner plates they used would be considered as large side plates nowadays. It's the same when you eat out - every sandwich comes with crisps or chips, a side of potatoes is usually enough for at least two people, a slice of cake is a huge big wodge.

We really need to start getting used to more normal portion sizes. There's a point where you've had enough food to fill you but just keep eating because it's there in front of you and it seems a shame to waste it. You can easily consume several hundred unnecessary calories a day that way.

Agree completely. A coffee shop near me serves scones the size of a small loaf of bread! Seriously. No way could I eat more than half and I’m stuffed. It comes with cream , butter and Jam. Most people have theirs with a latte or cappuccino! Days calories in one go !

When I was growing up that would have been split between 7 of us , we ate good homemade food but we were skinny and fit , there were no fat kids then , portions were tiny .

.......

Chinasea wrote: »

OK we see different things.

Either way it is not a competition that either country should be in sadly.

Look at the likes of Dealz. They are everywhere now and sell mountains of junk for nott'in.

Agree.

Ive never actually been in a Dealz although Mr Price is probably similar, and yes, mountains of junk for nothing.

Even normal supermarkets sell way too much junk. There is an entire aisle in LIDL dedicated to biscuits/sweets/cakes. A whole aisle!!

Blacktie.

....... wrote: »

Even normal supermarkets sell way too much junk. There is an entire aisle in LIDL dedicated to biscuits/sweets/cakes. A whole aisle!!

Isn't this the same for all supermarkets?

wakka12

I don't mind particularly junk food being sold but I just wish there were more healthy alternatives. Whenever I go abroad to other european countries I find its very difficult to buy any quick snacks that aren't simple carbs filled with sugar and salt, so its really quite easy to see how obesity is so high because of that combined with the fact people don't really care about their health much

I think if there were more healthy takeaway options people would choose them, chopped is a good example, but its just much too expensive, and not even very filling

I think people have just as unhealthy diets in other western countries as ireland, I think the only reason we have slightly higher obesity rates is because of weather so people are less active outdoors, and people drink more alcohol here

DEFTLEFTHAND

shesty wrote: »

I started using an app last year to track food intake.Started at 1200calories a day.

There is so little in 1200 calories.And there is so much food.I mean it's everywhere!!!I am not obese, I could do with losing maybe a stone.I am active fit and healthy and this was part of me reforming my habits.But the first while it really sank in how much food there is pushed in our faces everywhere - I mean I walk down the street of my local town, and there's numerous coffee shops with cakes, there's grocery shops with a huge range of sweets and chocolate front and centre everywhere, and that's not counting takeaways-burgers, chips, pizza, thai,indian,chinese etc (which I don't eat).

It is really hard to resist and a simple thing like meeting a friend for a cup of coffee and maybe a scone drives you a good 400cal over the 1200 limit, assuming you also eat a breakfast, lunch and dinner ....and nothing else.

I have no solution really other than to start realising we need to completely reform our eating habits and start teaching them that young.It's a massive problem

1200kcal a day is a bit low really for dieting

Recommended healthy daily intake is 2000 for women and 2,500 for men.

TerrorFirmer

Yes that is strange, unless you were literally a midget, a few months on 1,200 calories and you'd be absolutely emaciated!

The 2 or 2.5k daily recommended for m/f obviously varies from person to person but 1,200 would be crash dieting, especially if you're also exercising.

It's really interested to compare the calorie content of different dishes though....you can fit so many calories in something seemingly so small, or the polar opposite either if you make healthy choices.

Shanotheslayer

Not sure if it's been posted before but https://tdeecalculator.net/ is a great thing to use to check how much calories you should take.

shesty

shesty wrote: »

I started using an app last year to track food intake.Started at 1200calories a day................. meeting a friend for a cup of coffee and maybe a scone drives you a good 400cal over the 1200 limit, assuming you also eat a breakfast, lunch and dinner ....and nothing else.................

1200 calories a day would sustain a non active person at about 7 stone, a ridiculously low limit unless you are tiny.

Cabaal

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Not sure if it's been posted before but https://tdeecalculator.net/ is a great thing to use to check how much calories you should take.

Not all foods are equal in relation to how your body processes them versus how many calories they contain.

100 calories from some Coke you drink is not equal to calories you'd obtain from say almonds (again 100calories) for example, your body processes them very, very differently.

People don't ever seem to consider this.

TerrorFirmer

Still holds true that as long as you eat less than the maintenance threshold though, you won't gain weight...so you could eat as much crap and drink as much coke as you wanted, and still hold weight or lose it even once you were within that limit. So I think the calculator is still perfectly valid as an indicative tool for most people.

However if actually dieting, obviously a high-protein and/or pretty clean diet is going to get you leaner faster for the reasons you've outlined.

Cabaal

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Still holds true that as long as you eat less than the maintenance threshold though, you won't gain weight...so you could eat as much crap and drink as much coke as you wanted, and still hold weight or lose it even once you were within that limit. So I think the calculator is still perfectly valid as an indicative tool for most people.

However if actually dieting, obviously a high-protein and/or pretty clean diet is going to get you leaner faster for the reasons you've outlined.

Mmmm, not really
Perhaps go with somebody who is an expert in relation to how the body processes food...especially sugars. It's certainly not a simplistic as what people think it is.

Have a watch of Robert H. Lustig, MD, UCSF Professor of Pediatrics in the Division of Endocrinology talk about sugars and how the body processes them, its very interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

Blacktie.

Cabaal wrote: »

Not all foods are equal in relation to how your body processes them versus how many calories they contain.

100 calories from some Coke you drink is not equal to calories you'd obtain from say almonds (again 100calories) for example, your body processes them very, very differently.

People don't ever seem to consider this.

We got way farther in before this came up. I'm surprised. You're not right btw.

Calories are calories. How they make you feel will be different and yes the TEF of different foods is slightly different but it doesn't make enough of a difference tbh. You're missing the forest for the trees.

Zubeneschamali

Cabaal wrote: »

Mmmm, not really
Perhaps go with somebody who is an expert in relation to how the body processes food...especially sugars. It's certainly not a simplistic as what people think it is.

Have a watch of Robert H. Lustig, MD, UCSF Professor of Pediatrics in the Division of Endocrinology talk about sugars and how the body processes them, its very interesting.

What exactly are you suggesting, that someone taking in less than the maintenance amount of calories can still gain weight if it is all sugar?

Where exactly are the magic extra calories coming from, the air?

Cleopatra_

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Yes that is strange, unless you were literally a midget, a few months on 1,200 calories and you'd be absolutely emaciated!

The 2 or 2.5k daily recommended for m/f obviously varies from person to person but 1,200 would be crash dieting, especially if you're also exercising.

It's really interested to compare the calorie content of different dishes though....you can fit so many calories in something seemingly so small, or the polar opposite either if you make healthy choices.

I did weight watchers before and also apps like my fitnesspal etc and my suggested daily calorie intake when I used them was 1,200 calories and I'm 5'6 so not really short or anything. I found it really tough to stick to, especially as someone who was obviously overeating in the first place. I lost 23kg but actually ended up putting it all back on and more. I can't face going back on weight watchers right now knowing I'd be on about 1,200 calories again. 2,000 calories a day for women is actually way off, you'd need to be about 99 kg for that to be your maintenance daily calorie intake. Though that depends on height and exercise too.

Shanotheslayer

Cabaal wrote: »

Not all foods are equal in relation to how your body processes them versus how many calories they contain.

100 calories from some Coke you drink is not equal to calories you'd obtain from say almonds (again 100calories) for example, your body processes them very, very differently.

People don't ever seem to consider this.

Blacktie. wrote: »

We got way farther in before this came up. I'm surprised. You're not right btw.

Calories are calories. How they make you feel will be different and yes the TEF of different foods is slightly different but it doesn't make enough of a difference tbh. You're missing the forest for the trees.

This exactly. You may feel different and process them differently but if you eat 2500 or 2500 of unhealthy food. It's still 2500 calories.

Indeed, one can maintain their weight, which might well be an ideal weight for their height and activity levels etc but still not be getting the required nutrients etc.

Similarly you can gain weight by eating excessive amounts of nutritious food and even lose weight by just eating chocolate and chips is you don't eat "enough" of them.

silverharp

Blacktie. wrote: »

We got way farther in before this came up. I'm surprised. You're not right btw.

Calories are calories. How they make you feel will be different and yes the TEF of different foods is slightly different but it doesn't make enough of a difference tbh. You're missing the forest for the trees.

more importantly is the insulin response , its vital given the amount of insulin resistance a lot of people are getting now because they have a lifetime of bad eating behind them.

TerrorFirmer

Cleopatra_ wrote: »

I did weight watchers before and also apps like my fitnesspal etc and my suggested daily calorie intake when I used them was 1,200 calories and I'm 5'6 so not really short or anything. I found it really tough to stick to, especially as someone who was obviously overeating in the first place. I lost 23kg but actually ended up putting it all back on and more. I can't face going back on weight watchers right now knowing I'd be on about 1,200 calories again. 2,000 calories a day for women is actually way off, you'd need to be about 99 kg for that to be your maintenance daily calorie intake. Though that depends on height and exercise too.

It would've been 1,200 on WW to secure fairly quick results I'd imagine, hence the significant loss and regain as it's not sustainable. 5'6 is fairly normal for a female, but 1,200 is definitely not maintenance calories.

Where are you getting that 2k kcal would maintain 99kg from? That's about 15 stone.....that would make a 6ft man pretty overweight.

Not every woman needs 2kcal, some will need less, some more, and obviously exercise is a big factor, but 1,200kcal is far too low for an average woman (understandable why you'd be miserable!).

A bowl of cereal, single slice of toast with jam with a glass of OJ would be nearly half that.

Cabaal is right in his first post about the body processing calories.

If your dinner was a grilled chicken breast with greens and brown rice, or a big bag of Doritos - not only is the first full of nutrients but your body would also burn more calories in consuming/processing them.

However, as pointed out, as long as your calorie intake is below the maintainance level, it doesn't matter from a weight change POV what the calories are made of really.

However, if you're dieting or trying to lose weight, 1,500kcal of good, balanced stuff v 1,500kcal of absolute crap - you'll still lose weight steadily, but slightly faster in the first instance (plus have better overall health).

Shanotheslayer

I just checked there

A 5ft5 women aged 25 and weighing in at 55KG would be as follows:

Basal Metabolic Rate 1308 Calories
Sedentary 1569 Calories
Light Exercise 1798 Calories
Moderate Exercise 2027 Calories
Heavy Exercise 2256 Calories
Athlete 2485 Calories

On the assumption they did moderate Exercise they could still consume a reasonable amount of calories. 1.2K is extremly low.

Personally, I'm on a bulk at the minute and I aim for 3K Minimum a day.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Feckoffcup wrote: »

Either you go to the gym or you're overweight. That's the way the majority of Irish women. It's rare to see someone who doesn't work out and have a flat tummy especially over 30.

Don't even need a gym.

It costs nothing to run and practice upperbody and core exercises.