Irish Players outside the Provinces 17/18

connachta · 01-10-2017 5:03pm #1

We saw in the past 2-weeks IQs in England like O'Connell, Daniel Kenny, Peter Lydon, Joe Joyce and it raised a technical question

some focused on the 5-years rule for eligibility, but there was another change, which matters a lot for the talented Piers O'Connor

1) He played for England U20, but Saxons are their 2nd team
2) He played for England 7's BUT was 19, so he can switch aliegence with the new law
3) he's still eligible for Ireland through his father

So my question is : does we have to wait until the 1st of January 2021 to see such a promising player with the Irish jersey, or is this part of the law enforced sooner?
Hope he won't be (re)captured by a stupid 7's/Saxons cap...

irishbucsfan · 01-10-2017 5:07pm

I don't get it, why would he play for Ireland?

Erik Shin · 01-10-2017 5:11pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don't get it, why would he play for Ireland?

Surely the name Piers has him immediately disqualified ?

Burkie1203 · 01-10-2017 5:19pm

connachta wrote: »

We saw in the past 2-weeks IQs in England like O'Connell, Daniel Kenny, Peter Lydon, Joe Joyce and it raised a technical question

some focused on the 5-years rule for eligibility, but there was another change, which matters a lot for the talented Piers O'Connor

1) He played for England U20, but Saxons are their 2nd team
2) He played for England 7's BUT was 19, so he can switch aliegence with the new law
3) he's still eligible for Ireland through his father

So my question is : does we have to wait until the 1st of January 2021 to see such a promising player with the Irish jersey, or is this part of the law enforced sooner?
Hope he won't be (re)captured by a stupid 7's/Saxons cap...

Who is Piers O'Connor

connachta · 01-10-2017 5:49pm

So, everybody is going to avoid the main question to focus on the example?

Former Former · 01-10-2017 6:39pm

connachta wrote: »

So, everybody is going to avoid the main question to focus on the example?

The main question isn't very clear. What is the significance of 2021?

The Lost Sheep · 01-10-2017 6:45pm

connachta wrote: »

We saw in the past 2-weeks IQs in England like O'Connell, Daniel Kenny, Peter Lydon, Joe Joyce and it raised a technical question

some focused on the 5-years rule for eligibility, but there was another change, which matters a lot for the talented Piers O'Connor

1) He played for England U20, but Saxons are their 2nd team
2) He played for England 7's BUT was 19, so he can switch aliegence with the new law
3) he's still eligible for Ireland through his father

So my question is : does we have to wait until the 1st of January 2021 to see such a promising player with the Irish jersey, or is this part of the law enforced sooner?
Hope he won't be (re)captured by a stupid 7's/Saxons cap...

What do you mean by technical question? He has played for the irish u19s but didnt play 20s as England chose him/Ireland didnt and 20s is irrelevant as Saxons/Wolfhounds are the second designated qualifying team for each nation and 20s doesnt count for locking anyone to a country

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Who is Piers O'Connor

Played Irish 19s a few years ago but lived all time in England and been involved with a few english pro set ups while in school and since finishing secondary school

connachta · 01-10-2017 7:10pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

We saw in the past 2-weeks IQs in England like O'Connell, Daniel Kenny, Peter Lydon, Joe Joyce and it raised a technical question

some focused on the 5-years rule for eligibility, but there was another change, which matters a lot for the talented Piers O'Connor

1) He played for England U20, but Saxons are their 2nd team
2) He played for England 7's BUT was 19, so he can switch aliegence with the new law
3) he's still eligible for Ireland through his father

So my question is : does we have to wait until the 1st of January 2021 to see such a promising player with the Irish jersey, or is this part of the law enforced sooner?
Hope he won't be (re)captured by a stupid 7's/Saxons cap...

What do you mean by technical question? He has played for the irish u19s but didnt play 20s as England chose him/Ireland didnt and 20s is irrelevant as Saxons/Wolfhounds are the second designated qualifying team for each nation and 20s doesnt count for locking anyone to a country

That's what I said U20 isn't an issue. English 7's cap was but no more is or no more will be. Because of the new IRB rules
is or will be? That's my question. The 5 year-residency rule will be enforced in January 2021. That's why I wonder if the "U20 playing 7s doesn't count" rule applies now or in 2021.
TBC is Piers O'Connor, or anyone in a similar case, an IQ as soon as now, or only will be in 3 years (if he doesn't play with Saxons/7's in the meantime)?

Yeah_Right · 06-10-2017 9:15am

If he's elligible for Ireland through his father, why is residency even being discussed?

06-10-2017 9:24am

Yeah_Right wrote: »

If he's elligible for Ireland through his father, why is residency even being discussed?

Yeah. Seems like he's eligible for Ireland until such a time as he isn't - i.e. plays for England.

connachta · 06-10-2017 7:36pm

No he wasn't anymore as he played with Englang 7's

But he was 19. So the new rule implies he's IQ (again). But when? 2021 when the law is enforced for the 5-year-residency rule or now?

Erik Shin · 06-10-2017 7:40pm

It's a moot point, he considers himself English and he's not considering switching back?

Buer · 06-10-2017 8:29pm

He's hardly a world beater playing in the Championship and his aim appears to be representing England. Not sure why it's even a discussion.

connachta · 06-10-2017 9:29pm

Again O'Connor, who looks promising, can change his mind as only 22.

AND he was an example for my rule questionning (U20 7s switching country, date of enforcement), I have no answer about it yet

irishbucsfan · 06-10-2017 9:32pm

connachta wrote: »

Again O'Connor, who looks promising, can change his mind as only 22.

AND he was an example for my rule questionning (U20 7s switching country, date of enforcement), I have no answer about it yet

He can play for Ireland today if he wants to. Likely he doesn't.

connachta · 06-10-2017 9:33pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Again O'Connor, who looks promising, can change his mind as only 22.

AND he was an example for my rule questionning (U20 7s switching country, date of enforcement), I have no answer about it yet

He can play for Ireland today if he wants to. Likely he doesn't.

Thank you.
Even if he doesn't, it matters for a province looking for an IQ centre in the future

Quintis · 09-10-2017 8:29am

Marty Moore with a try for Wasps yesterday, played 57 minutes

irishbucsfan · 09-10-2017 8:44am

More like... Party More

Winters · 24-10-2017 12:47pm

Anyone seen much of Ian Madigan in Bristol this season? Looks like he has got game time expect against Ealing recently.

The Lost Sheep · 24-11-2017 2:17pm

Interesting to see Tadhg McElroy starting at blindside for Saracens A this weekend

irishfan9 · 24-11-2017 2:18pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Interesting to see Tadhg McElroy starting at blindside for Saracens A this weekend

weird, must have an injury crisis.

Wegians89 · 24-11-2017 2:25pm

Ciaran gaffney starting at 15 for zebre vs munster

Sangre · 24-11-2017 2:48pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Interesting to see Tadhg McElroy starting at blindside for Saracens A this weekend

Saracens A, also referred to as "The Bin Juice" by the Saracens players. Source: Big Jim Hamilton.

irishfan9 · 24-11-2017 3:02pm

Sangre wrote: »

Saracens A, also referred to as "The Bin Juice" by the Saracens players. Source: Big Jim Hamilton.

that dirty?

Locke_Lamora · 25-11-2017 2:29pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnw-QdlxUGc
Saracens A game being streamed live

Wegians89 · 26-11-2017 6:38pm

Anyone know much about how peter Lydon is getting on?

Don Kiddick · 27-11-2017 8:56am

Wegians89 wrote: »

Anyone know much about how peter Lydon is getting on?

Playing for Ealing these days, did win at the weekend, but he wasn't in the 23... wouldnt be looking too hot for him I think

Rigor Mortis · 27-11-2017 9:02am

Another guy who is doing well for Bristol this year is Jason Harris Wright. 5 tries in 7 games this season.

Wegians89 · 27-11-2017 9:39am

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Another guy who is doing well for Bristol this year is Jason Harris Wright. 5 tries in 7 games this season.

JHW was always pretty talented, injuries were his curse

connachta · 27-11-2017 12:25pm

Wegians89 wrote: »

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Another guy who is doing well for Bristol this year is Jason Harris Wright. 5 tries in 7 games this season.

JHW was always pretty talented, injuries were his curse

And he was not immaculate in his gameplay, I trust Delahunt/Heff a lot, McCartney should have 2 more years in him too.

no need to rush for hooker in Connacht...

Gilsenan only played 11 yesterday but a full hour the week before with L.I. He looked good, and involved.
perfect player to cover for Butler, and he should be interested now the londonians are very much on their way to relegation again
Fergus Mulchrone playing there too, but he's limited IMO

Buer · 27-11-2017 12:35pm

Don Kiddick wrote: »

Playing for Ealing these days, did win at the weekend, but he wasn't in the 23... wouldnt be looking too hot for him I think

That was the first game he missed this season. He's the top scorer in the league and having a tidy season. I'd imagine he has ambitions still to get a contract with one of the top flight teams.

Wegians89 · 27-11-2017 12:43pm

Would anyone have a list of all the Irish players playing abroad? I can't find any from anytime recently

connachta · 27-11-2017 1:58pm

Wegians89 wrote: »

Would anyone have a list of all the Irish players playing abroad? I can't find any from anytime recently

I have one in the making currently. Can you wait until next week? because I'm doing that well, estabilshing who're out of contract

Glass Prison 1214 · 27-11-2017 6:08pm

Wegians89 wrote: »

Would anyone have a list of all the Irish players playing abroad? I can't find any from anytime recently

According to Wikipedia, feel free to add any I have missed.

Loosehead
• Paddy McAllister (Gloucester)
• Jack O'Connell (Bristol)
• Sean McCarthy (Bedford Blues)

Hooker
• George McGuigan (Leicester Tigers) (Still Irish Eligable, although it looks like he has chosen England)
• Niall Annett (Worcester)
• Jason Harris-Wright (Bristol)
• Johnny Murphy (Rotherham)
• Tadhg McElroy (Saracens)

Tighthead
• Marty Moore (Wasps)
• Rory Burke (Nottingham)
• Adam Boland (Richmond)
• Dave Ryan (Agen)
• Jamie Hagan (Beziers)
• Oli Jager (Crusaders)
• Ben Betts (Leicester Tigers)
• Craig Trenier (Richmond)

Second Row
• Dan Tuohy (Leicester Tigers)
• Donncha O'Callaghan (Worcester Warriors)
• Danny Qualter (Nottingham)
• Jerry Sexton (Jersey Reds)
• Donnacha Ryan (Racing 92)
• Dave Foley (Pau)
• John Madigan (Massy)
• Tadhg Beirne (Scarlets)

Backrow
• Dominic Ryan (Leicester Tigers)
• Conor Gilsenan (London Irish)
• Paddy Ryan (Northampton Saints)
• William Ryan (Ealing Trailfinders)
• Shane Buckley (Nottingham)
• Jordan Coghlan (Nottingham)
• Rowan Halsall (Richmond)
• Conor Joyce (Jersey Reds)
• Danny Kenny (London Scottish)
• Sean Dougall (Pau)
• Paddy Butler (Pau)

Scrum Half
• Peter Stringer (Worcester Warriors)
• Michael Heaney (Doncaster Knights)

Outhalf
• Ian Madigan (Bristol)
• Gareth Steenson (Exeter)
• Peter Lydon (Ealing Trailfinders)
• Gearoid Lyons (Nottingham)
• Declan Cusack (Doncaster Knights)
• Sean O'Hagan (Richmond)

Centre
• Brendan Macken (Wasps)
• Ian Whitten (Exeter)
• Fergus Mulchrone (London Irish)
• Mark Best (Jersey Reds)
• Eamonn Sheridan (Carsassonne)
• Steven McMahon (Carcassonne)

Back Three
• Sean Scanlon (Nottingham)
• Alex O'Meara (Cornish Pirates)
• Ross Adair (Jersey Reds)
• Conor Gaston (Aurillac)
• Ciaran Gaffney (Zebre)

irishfan9 · 27-11-2017 6:30pm

Harrison Brewer is playing AIL with Terenure

irishbucsfan · 27-11-2017 6:31pm

Ah yes, The Republic of Gickistan, can't forget all those overseas lads down there!

Don Kiddick · 27-11-2017 8:55pm

I was going to ask where Danny Barnes was, I'd forgotten he'd retired

The Lost Sheep · 27-11-2017 9:14pm

Don Kiddick wrote: »

I was going to ask where Danny Barnes was, I'd forgotten he'd retired

Still Playing but not as a pro. Plays in 4th tier of english league system. In same division as London Irish Amatuers RFCs 1st team

Don Kiddick · 27-11-2017 9:21pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Still Playing but not as a pro. Plays in 4th tier of english league system. In same division as London Irish Amatuers RFCs 1st team

Yeah...retired... don't think he's even turning out at the weekends anymore, must ask someone

Bridge93 · 27-11-2017 9:29pm

Tadgh McElroy at Sarries

Former Former · 27-11-2017 9:44pm

I heard a rumour that Ben Betts was going to Leicester but I don't see him in that list, must have been misinformed

Wegians89 · 28-11-2017 9:11am

Not too many players there you'd be desperate to get back to Ireland

RuPi · 28-11-2017 10:38am

Craig Trenier - Richmond.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 28-11-2017 11:27am

Wegians89 wrote: »

Not too many players there you'd be desperate to get back to Ireland

The pick of the litter is in the pack. There would a tight five there that couldnmake it as at least squad cover in an Irish province.

connachta · 28-11-2017 11:39am

RuPi wrote: »

Craig Trenier - Richmond.

Wow, I'll add it to my list as I guess it's a classic one-year deal...
IQ TH props are not in surplus, nice to have him in mind if one of our current solutions moves. (Carey rumoured to Bris for example)

slingerz · 28-11-2017 11:57am

I would have thought there were a few there that would interest Ulster/Connacht.

Aside from Marty Moore, Madigan/Steenson would give them much needed outhalf cover with the current PJ situation and even beyond would be good for them.

bilston · 28-11-2017 12:02pm

slingerz wrote: »

I would have thought there were a few there that would interest Ulster/Connacht.

Aside from Marty Moore, Madigan/Steenson would give them much needed outhalf cover with the current PJ situation and even beyond would be good for them.

Steenson is never going to leave Exeter now.

Madigan is probably on mega bucks at Bristol and I'm sure having spent a year in the Championship will want a crack at the Premiership.

He's not an out half but Ian Whitten would be a handy signing for Ulster or Connacht. Again though he isn't likely to trouble the Ireland selectors so why would he leave the Premiership champions?

connachta · 28-11-2017 12:21pm

bilston wrote: »

slingerz wrote: »

I would have thought there were a few there that would interest Ulster/Connacht.

Aside from Marty Moore, Madigan/Steenson would give them much needed outhalf cover with the current PJ situation and even beyond would be good for them.

Steenson is never going to leave Exeter now.

Madigan is probably on mega bucks at Bristol and I'm sure having spent a year in the Championship will want a crack at the Premiership.

He's not an out half but Ian Whitten would be a handy signing for Ulster or Connacht. Again though he isn't likely to trouble the Ireland selectors so why would he leave the Premiership champions?

I disagree about Steenson.
Without Jackson, he would be definitely in contention to be 3rd choice 10 for RWC.
A 2 year-deal with Ulster/Connacht to finish his career is not to exclude.
He's out of contract with Exeter, and he may want a new challenge after so many years there

Buer · 28-11-2017 1:06pm

I'd expect Gareth Steenson to retire the summer before the RWC. He'll be 35. There's enough talent at outhalf in this country without having to bring back a guy who is close to retirement in a position where it's essential to develop talent.

connachta · 28-11-2017 2:28pm

Buer wrote: »

I'd expect Gareth Steenson to retire the summer before the RWC. He'll be 35. There's enough talent at outhalf in this country without having to bring back a guy who is close to retirement in a position where it's essential to develop talent.

As 3rd choice, to play 20 minutes in 1 or 2 games, that's ok even beyond 33 (like ROG, Dan Parks, Rob Kearney

...)

CIARAN_BOYLE · 28-11-2017 2:50pm

connachta wrote: »

As 3rd choice, to play 20 minutes in 1 or 2 games, that's ok even beyond 33 (like ROG, Dan Parks, Rob Kearney ...)

3rd choice may be a utility back of some description IE Scannell in Munster or otherwise.

If Connacht or Ulster (Simply because Leinster have Carberry and Byrne and have Munster have 3 different options) lure him back to Ireland I would not be surprised if he featured in the warm ups (given what we know) but I doubt he would make the plane.

Who is the Connacht kicking coach? Perhaps he could combine kicking coach and back up outhalf for Connacht.

Irish Players outside the Provinces 17/18

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