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Irish Players outside the Provinces 17/18

  • 01-10-2017 4:03pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,974 ✭✭✭connachta


    We saw in the past 2-weeks IQs in England like O'Connell, Daniel Kenny, Peter Lydon, Joe Joyce and it raised a technical question

    some focused on the 5-years rule for eligibility, but there was another change, which matters a lot for the talented Piers O'Connor

    1) He  played for England U20, but Saxons are their 2nd team
    2) He played for England 7's BUT was 19, so he can switch aliegence with the new law
    3) he's still eligible for Ireland through his father

    So my question is : does we have to wait until the 1st of January 2021 to see such a promising player with the Irish jersey, or is this part of the law enforced sooner?
    Hope he won't be (re)captured by a stupid 7's/Saxons cap...


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    I don't get it, why would he play for Ireland?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,721 ✭✭✭Erik Shin


    I don't get it, why would he play for Ireland?

    Surely the name Piers has him immediately disqualified ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    connachta wrote: »
    We saw in the past 2-weeks IQs in England like O'Connell, Daniel Kenny, Peter Lydon, Joe Joyce and it raised a technical question

    some focused on the 5-years rule for eligibility, but there was another change, which matters a lot for the talented Piers O'Connor

    1) He  played for England U20, but Saxons are their 2nd team
    2) He played for England 7's BUT was 19, so he can switch aliegence with the new law
    3) he's still eligible for Ireland through his father

    So my question is : does we have to wait until the 1st of January 2021 to see such a promising player with the Irish jersey, or is this part of the law enforced sooner?
    Hope he won't be (re)captured by a stupid 7's/Saxons cap...

    Who is Piers O'Connor


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,974 ✭✭✭connachta


    So, everybody is going to avoid the main question to focus on the example?

    2014011-42275714-1600-900.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    connachta wrote: »
    So, everybody is going to avoid the main question to focus on the example?

    2014011-42275714-1600-900.jpg

    The main question isn't very clear. What is the significance of 2021?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    connachta wrote: »
    We saw in the past 2-weeks IQs in England like O'Connell, Daniel Kenny, Peter Lydon, Joe Joyce and it raised a technical question

    some focused on the 5-years rule for eligibility, but there was another change, which matters a lot for the talented Piers O'Connor

    1) He played for England U20, but Saxons are their 2nd team
    2) He played for England 7's BUT was 19, so he can switch aliegence with the new law
    3) he's still eligible for Ireland through his father

    So my question is : does we have to wait until the 1st of January 2021 to see such a promising player with the Irish jersey, or is this part of the law enforced sooner?
    Hope he won't be (re)captured by a stupid 7's/Saxons cap...
    What do you mean by technical question? He has played for the irish u19s but didnt play 20s as England chose him/Ireland didnt and 20s is irrelevant as Saxons/Wolfhounds are the second designated qualifying team for each nation and 20s doesnt count for locking anyone to a country
    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    Who is Piers O'Connor
    Played Irish 19s a few years ago but lived all time in England and been involved with a few english pro set ups while in school and since finishing secondary school


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,974 ✭✭✭connachta


    connachta wrote: »
    We saw in the past 2-weeks IQs in England like O'Connell, Daniel Kenny, Peter Lydon, Joe Joyce and it raised a technical question

    some focused on the 5-years rule for eligibility, but there was another change, which matters a lot for the talented Piers O'Connor

    1) He  played for England U20, but Saxons are their 2nd team
    2) He played for England 7's BUT was 19, so he can switch aliegence with the new law
    3) he's still eligible for Ireland through his father

    So my question is : does we have to wait until the 1st of January 2021 to see such a promising player with the Irish jersey, or is this part of the law enforced sooner?
    Hope he won't be (re)captured by a stupid 7's/Saxons cap...
    What do you mean by technical question? He has played for the irish u19s but didnt play 20s as England chose him/Ireland didnt and 20s is irrelevant as Saxons/Wolfhounds are the second designated qualifying team for each nation and 20s doesnt count for locking anyone to a country
    That's what I said U20 isn't an issue. English 7's cap was but no more is or no more will be. Because of the new IRB rules
    is or will be? That's my question. The 5 year-residency rule will be enforced in January 2021. That's why I wonder if the "U20 playing 7s doesn't count" rule applies now or in 2021.
    TBC is Piers O'Connor, or anyone in a similar case, an IQ as soon as now, or only will be in 3 years (if he doesn't play with Saxons/7's in the meantime)?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,069 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    If he's elligible for Ireland through his father, why is residency even being discussed?




  • Yeah_Right wrote: »
    If he's elligible for Ireland through his father, why is residency even being discussed?

    Yeah. Seems like he's eligible for Ireland until such a time as he isn't - i.e. plays for England.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,974 ✭✭✭connachta


    No he wasn't anymore as he played with Englang 7's

    But he was 19. So the new rule implies he's IQ (again). But when? 2021 when the law is enforced for the 5-year-residency rule or now?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,721 ✭✭✭Erik Shin


    It's a moot point, he considers himself English and he's not considering switching back?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    He's hardly a world beater playing in the Championship and his aim appears to be representing England. Not sure why it's even a discussion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,974 ✭✭✭connachta


    Again O'Connor, who looks promising, can change his mind as only 22.

    AND he was an example for my rule questionning (U20 7s switching country, date of enforcement), I have no answer about it yet :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    connachta wrote: »
    Again O'Connor, who looks promising, can change his mind as only 22.

    AND he was an example for my rule questionning (U20 7s switching country, date of enforcement), I have no answer about it yet :)

    He can play for Ireland today if he wants to. Likely he doesn't.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,974 ✭✭✭connachta


    connachta wrote: »
    Again O'Connor, who looks promising, can change his mind as only 22.

    AND he was an example for my rule questionning (U20 7s switching country, date of enforcement), I have no answer about it yet :)

    He can play for Ireland today if he wants to.  Likely he doesn't.
    Thank you.
    Even if he doesn't, it matters for a province looking for an IQ centre in the future :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 671 ✭✭✭Quintis


    Marty Moore with a try for Wasps yesterday, played 57 minutes


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    More like... Party More


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,761 ✭✭✭✭Winters


    Anyone seen much of Ian Madigan in Bristol this season? Looks like he has got game time expect against Ealing recently.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Interesting to see Tadhg McElroy starting at blindside for Saracens A this weekend


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭irishfan9


    Interesting to see Tadhg McElroy starting at blindside for Saracens A this weekend

    weird, must have an injury crisis.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    Ciaran gaffney starting at 15 for zebre vs munster


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,182 ✭✭✭✭Sangre


    Interesting to see Tadhg McElroy starting at blindside for Saracens A this weekend
    Saracens A, also referred to as "The Bin Juice" by the Saracens players.  Source: Big Jim Hamilton.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭irishfan9


    Sangre wrote: »
    Saracens A, also referred to as "The Bin Juice" by the Saracens players.  Source: Big Jim Hamilton.

    that dirty?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭Locke_Lamora


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnw-QdlxUGc
    Saracens A game being streamed live


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    Anyone know much about how peter Lydon is getting on?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭Don Kiddick


    Wegians89 wrote: »
    Anyone know much about how peter Lydon is getting on?

    Playing for Ealing these days, did win at the weekend, but he wasn't in the 23... wouldnt be looking too hot for him I think


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,914 ✭✭✭Rigor Mortis


    Another guy who is doing well for Bristol this year is Jason Harris Wright. 5 tries in 7 games this season.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    Another guy who is doing well for Bristol this year is Jason Harris Wright. 5 tries in 7 games this season.

    JHW was always pretty talented, injuries were his curse


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,974 ✭✭✭connachta


    Wegians89 wrote: »
    Another guy who is doing well for Bristol this year is Jason Harris Wright.  5 tries in 7 games this season.

    JHW was always pretty talented, injuries were his curse
    And he was not immaculate in his gameplay, I trust Delahunt/Heff a lot, McCartney should have 2 more years in him too.

    no need to rush for hooker in Connacht...

    Gilsenan only played 11 yesterday but a full hour the week before with L.I. He looked good, and involved.
    perfect player to cover for Butler, and he should be interested now the londonians are very much on their way to relegation again
    Fergus Mulchrone playing there too, but he's limited IMO


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Playing for Ealing these days, did win at the weekend, but he wasn't in the 23... wouldnt be looking too hot for him I think

    That was the first game he missed this season. He's the top scorer in the league and having a tidy season. I'd imagine he has ambitions still to get a contract with one of the top flight teams.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    Would anyone have a list of all the Irish players playing abroad? I can't find any from anytime recently


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,974 ✭✭✭connachta


    Wegians89 wrote: »
    Would anyone have a list of all the Irish players playing abroad? I can't find any from anytime recently
    I have one in the making currently. Can you wait until next week? because I'm doing that well, estabilshing who're out of contract :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭Glass Prison 1214


    Wegians89 wrote: »
    Would anyone have a list of all the Irish players playing abroad? I can't find any from anytime recently

    According to Wikipedia, feel free to add any I have missed.

    Loosehead
    • Paddy McAllister (Gloucester)
    • Jack O'Connell (Bristol)
    • Sean McCarthy (Bedford Blues)

    Hooker
    • George McGuigan (Leicester Tigers) (Still Irish Eligable, although it looks like he has chosen England)
    • Niall Annett (Worcester)
    • Jason Harris-Wright (Bristol)
    • Johnny Murphy (Rotherham)
    • Tadhg McElroy (Saracens)

    Tighthead
    • Marty Moore (Wasps)
    • Rory Burke (Nottingham)
    • Adam Boland (Richmond)
    • Dave Ryan (Agen)
    • Jamie Hagan (Beziers)
    • Oli Jager (Crusaders)
    • Ben Betts (Leicester Tigers)
    • Craig Trenier (Richmond)

    Second Row
    • Dan Tuohy (Leicester Tigers)
    • Donncha O'Callaghan (Worcester Warriors)
    • Danny Qualter (Nottingham)
    • Jerry Sexton (Jersey Reds)
    • Donnacha Ryan (Racing 92)
    • Dave Foley (Pau)
    • John Madigan (Massy)
    • Tadhg Beirne (Scarlets)

    Backrow
    • Dominic Ryan (Leicester Tigers)
    • Conor Gilsenan (London Irish)
    • Paddy Ryan (Northampton Saints)
    • William Ryan (Ealing Trailfinders)
    • Shane Buckley (Nottingham)
    • Jordan Coghlan (Nottingham)
    • Rowan Halsall (Richmond)
    • Conor Joyce (Jersey Reds)
    • Danny Kenny (London Scottish)
    • Sean Dougall (Pau)
    • Paddy Butler (Pau)

    Scrum Half
    • Peter Stringer (Worcester Warriors)
    • Michael Heaney (Doncaster Knights)

    Outhalf
    • Ian Madigan (Bristol)
    • Gareth Steenson (Exeter)
    • Peter Lydon (Ealing Trailfinders)
    • Gearoid Lyons (Nottingham)
    • Declan Cusack (Doncaster Knights)
    • Sean O'Hagan (Richmond)

    Centre
    • Brendan Macken (Wasps)
    • Ian Whitten (Exeter)
    • Fergus Mulchrone (London Irish)
    • Mark Best (Jersey Reds)
    • Eamonn Sheridan (Carsassonne)
    • Steven McMahon (Carcassonne)

    Back Three
    • Sean Scanlon (Nottingham)
    • Alex O'Meara (Cornish Pirates)
    • Ross Adair (Jersey Reds)
    • Conor Gaston (Aurillac)
    • Ciaran Gaffney (Zebre)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭irishfan9


    Harrison Brewer is playing AIL with Terenure


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Ah yes, The Republic of Gickistan, can't forget all those overseas lads down there!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭Don Kiddick


    I was going to ask where Danny Barnes was, I'd forgotten he'd retired :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    I was going to ask where Danny Barnes was, I'd forgotten he'd retired :(
    Still Playing but not as a pro. Plays in 4th tier of english league system. In same division as London Irish Amatuers RFCs 1st team


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭Don Kiddick


    Still Playing but not as a pro. Plays in 4th tier of english league system. In same division as London Irish Amatuers RFCs 1st team

    Yeah...retired... don't think he's even turning out at the weekends anymore, must ask someone


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Bridge93


    Tadgh McElroy at Sarries


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    I heard a rumour that Ben Betts was going to Leicester but I don't see him in that list, must have been misinformed


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    Not too many players there you'd be desperate to get back to Ireland


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 310 ✭✭RuPi


    Craig Trenier - Richmond.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Wegians89 wrote: »
    Not too many players there you'd be desperate to get back to Ireland

    The pick of the litter is in the pack. There would a tight five there that couldnmake it as at least squad cover in an Irish province.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,974 ✭✭✭connachta


    RuPi wrote: »
    Craig Trenier - Richmond.
    Wow, I'll add it to my list as I guess it's a classic one-year deal...
    IQ TH props are not in surplus, nice to have him in mind if one of our current solutions moves. (Carey rumoured to Bris for example)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,295 ✭✭✭slingerz


    I would have thought there were a few there that would interest Ulster/Connacht.

    Aside from Marty Moore, Madigan/Steenson would give them much needed outhalf cover with the current PJ situation and even beyond would be good for them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,874 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    slingerz wrote: »
    I would have thought there were a few there that would interest Ulster/Connacht.

    Aside from Marty Moore, Madigan/Steenson would give them much needed outhalf cover with the current PJ situation and even beyond would be good for them.

    Steenson is never going to leave Exeter now.

    Madigan is probably on mega bucks at Bristol and I'm sure having spent a year in the Championship will want a crack at the Premiership.

    He's not an out half but Ian Whitten would be a handy signing for Ulster or Connacht. Again though he isn't likely to trouble the Ireland selectors so why would he leave the Premiership champions?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,974 ✭✭✭connachta


    bilston wrote: »
    slingerz wrote: »
    I would have thought there were a few there that would interest Ulster/Connacht.

    Aside from Marty Moore, Madigan/Steenson would give them much needed outhalf cover with the current PJ situation and even beyond would be good for them.

    Steenson is never going to leave Exeter now.

    Madigan is probably on mega bucks at Bristol and I'm sure having spent a year in the Championship will want a crack at the Premiership.

    He's not an out half but Ian Whitten would be a handy signing for Ulster or Connacht. Again though he isn't likely to trouble the Ireland selectors so why would he leave the Premiership champions?
    I disagree about Steenson.
    Without Jackson, he would be definitely in contention to be 3rd choice 10  for RWC.
    A 2 year-deal with Ulster/Connacht to finish his career is not to exclude.
    He's out of contract with Exeter, and  he may want a new challenge after so many years there


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    I'd expect Gareth Steenson to retire the summer before the RWC. He'll be 35. There's enough talent at outhalf in this country without having to bring back a guy who is close to retirement in a position where it's essential to develop talent.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,974 ✭✭✭connachta


    Buer wrote: »
    I'd expect Gareth Steenson to retire the summer before the RWC. He'll be 35. There's enough talent at outhalf in this country without having to bring back a guy who is close to retirement in a position where it's essential to develop talent.
    As 3rd choice, to play 20 minutes in 1  or 2 games, that's ok even beyond 33 (like ROG, Dan Parks, Rob Kearney :p...)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    connachta wrote: »
    As 3rd choice, to play 20 minutes in 1  or 2 games, that's ok even beyond 33 (like ROG, Dan Parks, Rob Kearney :p...)

    3rd choice may be a utility back of some description IE Scannell in Munster or otherwise.

    If Connacht or Ulster (Simply because Leinster have Carberry and Byrne and have Munster have 3 different options) lure him back to Ireland I would not be surprised if he featured in the warm ups (given what we know) but I doubt he would make the plane.

    Who is the Connacht kicking coach? Perhaps he could combine kicking coach and back up outhalf for Connacht.


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