Dairygold discussion thread

Farmer Ed · 05-10-2017 03:04PM

alps wrote: »

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Anyone know anything about the story doing the rounds that the board signed of on the closure of the 13 shops last week and staff and general committee were only informed only last night?

That would be standard enough protocol. It's out on all forums now.

It's been on the cards for some time, so won't be much of a surprise for most. However, anger may set in locally when the announcement of the stores to be axed will happen. The 11.5million investment, and how the farmers shopping experience will be enhanced by more up to date shiny shelves and floors, will be the mantra of management and board as to the advantages of such a move.

It will be a massive loss to some communities, however if it has been an inefficient method of delivering inputs to farmers, then you can't blame the powers that be, for making some improvements.

The spin however...is exquisite...

Would imagine the PR company will have to get it's cut out of the 11.5m before any new shiny shelve is put up.

alps · 05-10-2017 03:06PM

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Story doing the rounds that the board signed off this last week with general committee being told last night at meeting at 8pm also. Branches to close are Araglen, Blarney, Carrignavar, Castletownroche, Cashel, Granagh, Hollyford, Kilaloe, Muskerry, Park, Togher & Tournafulla know thats only 12 but going from memeory & cant place the 13th.

Anyone else hear this? Who is unlucky 13th?

Most are well run down and have good stores within 5 or 6 miles.

.Im very impressed Ed that you memorize in alphabetical order....thats pretty sharp.....id have memorized them geographically.....

Any board member sitting locally in any of the above?

Farmer Ed · 05-10-2017 03:48PM

alps wrote: »

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Story doing the rounds that the board signed off this last week with general committee being told last night at meeting at 8pm also. Branches to close are Araglen, Blarney, Carrignavar, Castletownroche, Cashel, Granagh, Hollyford, Kilaloe, Muskerry, Park, Togher & Tournafulla know thats only 12 but going from memeory & cant place the 13th.

Anyone else hear this? Who is unlucky 13th?

Most are well run down and have good stores within 5 or 6 miles.

.Im very impressed Ed that you memorize in alphabetical order....thats pretty sharp.....id have memorized them geographically.....

Any board member sitting locally in any of the above?

Can't reveal my sources ah but no need to be star struck by me. Not that impressive honestly!

So to recap in the last week Dairygold opened a world class state of the art "nutritional campus" and looked for a government bail out the same day. In spite of this campus being state of the art it still managed to make the top ten list of polluters in the county with this new campus and now are closing 13 stores and calling it some kind of 11.5m investment project.

Me thinks another PR award is in order.

Truckermal · 05-10-2017 06:12PM

The one in Togher is only open 3 days a week ATM and has fcuk all, Drinagh has a fine outlet 15 minutes away.

Water John · 05-10-2017 06:47PM

Well Lisavard have one at Manch, just south of Carbery factory, Bandon have one in Enniskeane, Drinagh have one in Dunmanway and Barretts have a fine new store in Coppeen. that opened a few months ago, Minister present and all. Togher closing.
Something wrong with the business model of Dg? The Homestore fiasco was their last big foray into national hardware retail. They were going to become a big player.

Truckermal · 05-10-2017 06:58PM

Water John wrote: »

Well Lisavard have one at Manch, just south of Carbery factory, Bandon have one in Enniskeane, Drinagh have one in Dunmanway and Barretts have a fine new store in Coppeen. that opened a few months ago, Minister present and all. Togher closing.
Something wrong with the business model of Dg? The Homestore fiasco was their last big foray into national hardware retail. They were going to become a big player.

The place in Togher is a joke compared to the ones named above! I wouldn't use the Mallow store in a fit as the staff are untrained plus they are very expensive!

Sam Kade · 05-10-2017 06:59PM

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Story doing the rounds that the board signed off this last week with general committee being told last night at meeting at 8pm also. Branches to close are Araglen, Blarney, Carrignavar, Castletownroche, Cashel, Granagh, Hollyford, Kilaloe, Muskerry, Park, Togher & Tournafulla know thats only 12 but going from memeory & cant place the 13th.

Anyone else hear this? Who is unlucky 13th?

Would it be firmount? Not much happening there.

Mooooo · 05-10-2017 07:00PM

Each place has a minimum of 2 staff, some of them just don't have the turnover. Muskerry is my local, lads there are very good but tbh main things I get delivered, what I'd call for there wouldn't be much after. Tarelton is close by as well and coachford/ killumney aren't far away either. Barretts have put a good few reps on the road drumming up sales and bandon coop have a big store in bandon as well as other hardware stores Kellehers etc so the return on small depots isn't really there.
There will be costs involved in closing places and other busier spots are prob due an upgrade anyway. I'd say if they were handing out gold bars there'd still be giving out in this thread anyway

Farmer Ed · 05-10-2017 07:13PM

Mooooo wrote: »

Each place has a minimum of 2 staff, some of them just don't have the turnover. Muskerry is my local, lads there are very good but tbh main things I get delivered, what I'd call for there wouldn't be much after. Tarelton is close by as well and coachford/ killumney aren't far away either. Barretts have put a good few reps on the road drumming up sales and bandon coop have a big store in bandon as well as other hardware stores Kellehers etc so the return on small depots isn't really there.
There will be costs involved in closing places and other busier spots are prob due an upgrade anyway. I'd say if they were handing out gold bars there'd still be giving out in this thread anyway

The main problem is the spin they are putting on this. They are closing 13 stores but instead of coming out and saying that they come out with a headline that would suggest they are expanding their retail operations! How on earth does Pat Keating think up this stuff from his basement office in Dublin? Or better still how much are Dairygold paying his company for PR?

Water John · 05-10-2017 07:13PM

DG have six larger stores that have Garden Centres

Raheen, Midleton, Carrigaline, Mallow Cahir, Cashel and Mitchelstown

Much of the future focus would seem to be online. The 4 West Cork Coops have adopted a different model. They each have actually expanded retail sites, in various ways.
We then have the other milk processors arguing that, the WC coops prop up milk price from other activities. Well, which is it?

Barretts are now a branch of Southern Fuels. DG also have a lot of reps on the road.

Mooooo · 05-10-2017 07:33PM

Water John wrote: »

DG have six larger stores that have Garden Centres

Raheen, Midleton, Carrigaline, Mallow Cahir, Cashel and Mitchelstown

Much of the future focus would seem to be online. The 4 West Cork Coops have adopted a different model. They each have actually expanded retail sites, in various ways.
We then have the other milk processors arguing that, the WC coops prop up milk price from other activities. Well, which is it?

Barretts are now a branch of Southern Fuels. DG also have a lot of reps on the road.

Its investments carbery have made in the US that are going well. Lads in west cork would also be traveling larger distances to stores witness choice . As well as the four coops being desperate entities in their own right in that regard.

farmerrichie · 05-10-2017 09:41PM

It must be millstreet store that is numbers 13 as dairygold have lost up to 40 suppliers from the stores catchment area. 20 to Boherbue, 16 to Arrabawn and 4 dual suppliers to Kerry. Anytime I pass the store there isn't a car outside it.

K.G. · 06-10-2017 12:05AM

Positive move.branchs are a total dead duck with the way farm scale is changing and the impact technology is having.

Farmer Ed · 06-10-2017 06:12AM

farmerrichie wrote: »

It must be millstreet store that is numbers 13 as dairygold have lost up to 40 suppliers from the stores catchment area. 20 to Boherbue, 16 to Arrabawn and 4 dual suppliers to Kerry. Anytime I pass the store there isn't a car outside it.

Don't know who number 13 is? But losing 40 suppliers in a small area cant be good for business. Anyone know how many customers across the region have stopped trading with them? Was a very famous case in Macroom court a few years back that was a prime example of poor customer relations where they sought to have someone jailed over 667 euro. http://www.independent.ie/regionals/corkman/news/dairygold-stays-silent-about-tongue-lashing-from-judge-27088747.html.

In my opinion they need to pay more attention to customer care and spend a lot less money on public relations. The press releases over the past couple of weeks in all honesty have put a lot of people shaking their heads.

Recommended reading, Pinocchio and the Boy who called Woulfe.

Truckermal · 06-10-2017 07:22AM

farmerrichie wrote: »

It must be millstreet store that is numbers 13 as dairygold have lost up to 40 suppliers from the stores catchment area. 20 to Boherbue, 16 to Arrabawn and 4 dual suppliers to Kerry. Anytime I pass the store there isn't a car outside it.

Did you ever see the store for the feed? It's full of pigeons and other bird's who are destroying the bags! Boherbue is a much finer shop or even better the one in Kanturk.

Farmer Ed · 06-10-2017 07:36AM

Truckermal wrote: »

farmerrichie wrote: »

It must be millstreet store that is numbers 13 as dairygold have lost up to 40 suppliers from the stores catchment area. 20 to Boherbue, 16 to Arrabawn and 4 dual suppliers to Kerry. Anytime I pass the store there isn't a car outside it.

Did you ever see the store for the feed? It's full of pigeons and other bird's who are destroying the bags! Boherbue is a much finer shop or even better the one in Kanturk.

Remember a really good guy who worked in a store near me. Always kept the place spotless and knew where everything was. One day while I was there, two guys in a big car and suits drove up. Walked in past the store man and never even said hello not to mind to think of complementing him on his good work or thanking him for keeping the suits on their backs or the car underneath their fat asses. The store man said nothing but I felt it was one of the greatest displays of ignorance I have ever seen. If he was a dog there would have been a better chance they my try and rub him! Total lack of respect all round.

Water John · 06-10-2017 01:30PM

A little confused. So 39 Stores at present, 13 closing, 13 upgrading, 13 in no mans land.

This piece in The Irish Examiner is the reason for confusion.

“Following the investment, we will have an enhanced store model, a strong Agri Direct Model, Agri E-Commerce site and Online Service.......... while out on the field we will have a team of Area Sales Managers." John O'Carroll.

Googled Agri Direct, which seems to be a shop based in Cavan.

Saw 2 diff WC Coop feed delivery lorries in Macroom today. Don't think they have teams of sales, on the road in the area, but they have lorries.

A story and it's true, as I know the family. They switched feed delivery from DG to another coop. On going to order a refill, sent a cheque to pay for the 1st load. The load came to ,€4,250. Sent a round figure cheque of €4K to leave the balance roll forward. Amazed to get an invoice in the post with the €250 knocked off, as a discount. Had never got a cent off from DG.

That might be one factor.

Farmer Ed · 06-10-2017 01:41PM

Water John wrote: »

A little confused. So 39 Stores at present, 13 closing, 13 upgrading, 13 in no mans land.

This piece in The Irish Examiner is the reason for confusion.

“Following the investment, we will have an enhanced store model, a strong Agri Direct Model, Agri E-Commerce site and Online Service.......... while out on the field we will have a team of Area Sales Managers." John O'Carroll.

Googled Agri Direct, which seems to be a shop based in Cavan.

Saw 2 diff WC Coop feed delivery lorries in Macroom today. Don't think they have teams of sales, on the road in the area, but they have lorries.

A story and it's true, as I know the family. They switched feed delivery from DG to another coop. On going to order a refill, sent a cheque to pay for the 1st load. The load came to ,€4,250. Sent a round figure cheque of €4K to leave the balance roll forward. Amazed to get an invoice in the post with the €250 knocked off, as a discount. Had never got a cent off from DG.

That might be one factor.

Would expect a lot of press releases from Dairygold around now to get peoples attention away from Mallow being on the top list of polluters.

Look over here lads nothing more to see over there!

farmerrichie · 06-10-2017 04:29PM

Fed my bullocks on beef lav last winter I hope d pigeons in and out of the shed in the millstreet store got a bit fatter than my bullocks. This year I think I will stick with the local miller o regans mill and hopefully they will do a bit better.

Farmer Ed · 06-10-2017 04:48PM

farmerrichie wrote: »

Fed my bullocks on beef lav last winter I hope d pigeons in and out of the shed in the millstreet store got a bit fatter than my bullocks. This year I think I will stick with the local miller o regans mill and hopefully they will do a bit better.

In fairness being over weight is not a good thing if you have to fly.

Farmer Ed · 09-10-2017 06:02PM

This is very interesting reading! Am I reading this correctly? Did Bam only get paid 22m for all the work listed here? Also Bam seam to suggest that the whole project in total cost 70m and not 86m as reported a couple of weeks ago? Would also look like not a lot was done to the waste treatment plant based on Bams job description? But most interesting of all?? If Bam only charged 22m for the entire building project??? How the hell could the equipment cost another 64m ??????!!!! http://www.bamireland.ie/divisions/bam-building/building-projects/hi-tech-industrial/dairygold-mallow.htm

Am I reading this correctly?????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spend it away lads its no ones money!!!

Mooooo · 09-10-2017 06:30PM

Farmer Ed wrote: »

This is very interesting reading! Am I reading this correctly? Did Bam only get paid 22m for all the work listed here? Also Bam seam to suggest that the whole project in total cost 70m and not 86m as reported a couple of weeks ago? Would also look like not a lot was done to the waste treatment plant based on Bams job description? But most interesting of all?? If Bam only charged 22m for the entire building project??? How the hell could the equipment cost another 64m ??????!!!! http://www.bamireland.ie/divisions/bam-building/building-projects/hi-tech-industrial/dairygold-mallow.htm

Am I reading this correctly?????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spend it away lads its no ones money!!!

Sure you have all the answers go on away into project management, construction and commissioning

Farmer Ed · 09-10-2017 06:48PM

Mooooo wrote: »

Sure you have all the answers go on away into project management, construction and commissioning

Do you have the answers? I certainly dont? A very big explanation required here if the facts as reported by Bam are correct? The reason given for the extra cost was all the extra concrete and steel. Now according to Bam they only got paid 22m for all that building? Also there is no real mention of upgrading the waste plant! Please dont shoot the messenger but please explain if you can, where the other 64m was spent? If farmers money has been spent wisely here? Please explain if you have information to back up that belief?

Mooooo · 09-10-2017 07:07PM

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Do you have the answers? I certainly dont? A very big explanation required here if the facts as reported by Bam are correct? The reason given for the extra cost was all the extra concrete and steel. Now according to Bam they only got paid 22m for all that building? Also there is no real mention of upgrading the waste plant! Please dont shoot the messenger but please explain if you can, where the other 64m was spent? If farmers money has been spent wisely here? Please explain if you have information to back up that belief?

I dont have any info on its construction, Going off that link you posted it's just the buildings they did none of the equipment and associated commissioning, which I assume would be dearer than the buildings that house them. Not shooting any messenger it's your own delivery does that itself

Farmer Ed · 09-10-2017 07:21PM

Mooooo wrote: »

I dont have any info on its construction, Going off that link you posted it's just the buildings they did none of the equipment and associated commissioning, which I assume would be dearer than the buildings that house them. Not shooting any messenger it's your own delivery does that itself

The link I posted is from the Main contractors website and the 22m includes the cost of the silos. If you are correct then the equipment is possibly the most expensive of its kind installed anywhere in the world. So not alone is this plant on the EPAs top ten for pollution, but possibly it has the worlds most expensive 7.5 ton drying equipment ever. Danone in Macroom put in a much bigger dryer and done all the building work for 50m and that included bringing gas 25 KM to the plant? Also how is it that the initial cost was 68m and Bam have it at 70m and yet we are now told it has cost 86m?

http://www.bamireland.ie/divisions/bam-building/building-projects/hi-tech-industrial/dairygold-mallow.htm

Farmer Ed · 09-10-2017 08:16PM

The total cost for the equipment in Macroom looks like is was 25M and that is an actual infant milk formula plant and not just a regular powder plant. http://www.dairyfoods.com/articles/86408-gea-process-engineering-wins-8364-25million-danone-order

farmerrichie · 09-10-2017 09:35PM

I must be bam EE, I have paid close to 1000€ in revolving fund in the month of august alone. Money that I cud well afford to be spending in my farm, money that I will prob never get back only more shares allocated instead of hard cash. The old saying goes "wilful waste make sure woeful wants". Nothing new from my co-op.

Farmer Ed · 09-10-2017 09:49PM

farmerrichie wrote: »

I must be bam EE, I have paid close to 1000€ in revolving fund in the month of august alone. Money that I cud well afford to be spending in my farm, money that I will prob never get back only more shares allocated instead of hard cash. The old saying goes "wilful waste make sure woeful wants". Nothing new from my co-op.

Would you not consider leaving when the contract is up? Or is that even possible? Of course to only thing is you won't get your share money back if you do.

alps · 10-10-2017 04:47PM

Important...

If you know of anyone who has been expelled from, or had their shareholding cancelled by Dairygold in the last 2 years, please let them know that they may have an outstanding tax liability that they may have not known about and may not have informed their accountant.

The day Dairygold cashed in the shares, the farmer became liable for capital gains tax on any bonus or patronage shares they received. Most of the shares in fact were received for trading done with the co-op either through milk sales or purchases over the years.

Even though Dairygold did not pay back the money to the farmer, their action of cancelling or "encashing" the shares caused a tax liability for the farmer. This liability should have been discharged in December of the year the shares were encashed, and should be detailed in the tax return the following year.

Most farmers will not be aware of their situation, and may not come to light until Dairygold return these payments, if ever, and the farmer then goes about doing a return on the income.

He may then find out that He was sitting on a tax liability for years, and in a situation of owing interest and penalties.

It's is a serious situation, and needs to be dealt with immediately, as it will take time to calculate. You will need the coop to let your accountant know whether your shares were bought by you or received as bonus shares and the tax liability calculated from that.

Spitefullness or an oversight, it's debatable...

Farmer Ed · 10-10-2017 05:22PM

alps wrote: »

Important...

If you know of anyone who has been expelled from, or had their shareholding cancelled by Dairygold in the last 2 years, please let them know that they may have an outstanding tax liability that they may have not known about and may not have informed their accountant.

The day Dairygold cashed in the shares, the farmer became liable for capital gains tax on any bonus or patronage shares they received. Most of the shares in fact were received for trading done with the co-op either through milk sales or purchases over the years.

Even though Dairygold did not pay back the money to the farmer, their action of cancelling or "encashing" the shares caused a tax liability for the farmer. This liability should have been discharged in December of the year the shares were encashed, and should be detailed in the tax return the following year.

Most farmers will not be aware of their situation, and may not come to light until Dairygold return these payments, if ever, and the farmer then goes about doing a return on the income.

He may then find out that He was sitting on a tax liability for years, and in a situation of owing interest and penalties.

It's is a serious situation, and needs to be dealt with immediately, as it will take time to calculate. You will need the coop to let your accountant know whether your shares were bought by you or received as bonus shares and the tax liability calculated from that.

Spitefullness or an oversight, it's debatable...

Well the way they are going with a massive budget over run on what has now transpired to be a top EPA pollution attraction and now their new found commitment to "investing" in retail. (Remember what happened the last time they invested in retail?). Worrying times for anyone hoping to see anything back I would think.

If they had the finances to do it? Then it would create a bit of good will and good PR if they could see their way in clearing their debts with ordinary farmers. That is if they are financially strong enough to do so? A lot of people have cut down or stopped trading with them.

Pi-sing on people is generally not generally good for business I would have thought?

Dairygold discussion thread

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