Marvel Neflix Thread

Nervous Wreck · 19-08-2017 8:29am

Five episodes into The Defenders and it's so good! The first episode or two is a little slow, though still good, as they reintroduce the characters and set everything up but from episode 3, it's all go. Can't wait to finish!

Doctor DooM · 19-08-2017 1:17pm

I nearly flung my phone through my TV screen when Danny started moaning again

Come ep 3 it's good fun.

OwaynOTT · 19-08-2017 1:57pm

Is this available now?

Nervous Wreck · 19-08-2017 2:03pm

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Is this available now?

Yep, whole thing!

Nervous Wreck · 19-08-2017 2:03pm

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I nearly flung my phone through my TV screen when Danny started moaning again Come ep 3 it's good fun.

He's had some great fight scenes so far!

Erik Shin · 19-08-2017 4:08pm

Do you need to have watched all the Marvel series so far in order to watch this?..I'm only half way thru Luke Cage and 3 episodes of JJ, so am kinda loathe to start this just in case there's a plot twist or 2 given away

Slydice · 19-08-2017 4:22pm

It builds on all their stories so far..

BUT

the other characters have had limited connections to each other

AND

they are now getting to know each other better OR for the first time

SO

There'd be a lot of taking stuff as it's given and understanding LOTS of stuff has happened

that with maybe knowing evening only one characters story.. it might be possible

Nervous Wreck · 19-08-2017 4:37pm

Erik Shin wrote: »

Do you need to have watched all the Marvel series so far in order to watch this?..I'm only half way thru Luke Cage and 3 episodes of JJ, so am kinda loathe to start this just in case there's a plot twist or 2 given away

At a minimum, the ends of Daredevil S2, Luke Cage S1 and Jessica Jones S1 are spoiled, as well as some less interesting plot lines from Iron Fist S1.

Lithium93_ · 19-08-2017 5:55pm

From the 3rd episode on wards, it really picks up.. Think the 8 episode format is better than the 13.

Doctor DooM · 20-08-2017 8:32am

Lithium93_ wrote: »

From the 3rd episode on wards, it really picks up.. Think the 8 episode format is better than the 13.

I think both Luke Cage and Iron fist suffered from the 13 episodes and both of them had about 7 good ones, so I have to agree.

Really enjoyed the Defenders, kinda wish this big divide between Netflix and the rest of the Marvel U didn't exist now, as a team of unregulated heroes running around NY is definitely something SHIELD or Stark would try to step in on.

flazio · 20-08-2017 8:35am

And Misty would definitely have been keeping tabs on a certain wall crawling vigilante in Queens.

Nervous Wreck · 20-08-2017 8:43am

I don't buy the whole "13 episodes is too many" thing tbh. If it didn't work for you with certain shows, it's the showrunners fault, not the format. The format is just the parameter that the showrunner has to work inside and if they can't, they're the ones to blame. The format really worked for me in all the shows tbh but I think probably the strongest (in those terms) was Daredevil S1, wherein Drew Goddard just nailed the consistency.

Nervous Wreck · 20-08-2017 12:22pm

Finished; really great series with a lot of good stuff set up for future instalments of each of the shows (probably least of all Luke Cage). Such a fun series overall!

Penn · 20-08-2017 1:13pm

The 13 episodes work well with one main character, but it wouldn't have worked with Defenders because you'd have to stretch each of their stories out.

Finished it last night. Really enjoyed it. They all worked and gelled well together. The story was great and the side characters weren't forced into constant danger as busy work. Iron Fist is still the weakest link, but I felt he was better than in his solo show, particularly in his fighting scenes which didn't look as choreographed.

Nervous Wreck · 20-08-2017 1:26pm

Penn wrote: »

The 13 episodes work well with one main character, but it wouldn't have worked with Defenders because you'd have to stretch each of their stories out.

Finished it last night. Really enjoyed it. They all worked and gelled well together. The story was great and the side characters weren't forced into constant danger as busy work. Iron Fist is still the weakest link, but I felt he was better than in his solo show, particularly in his fighting scenes which didn't look as choreographed.

I also feel like they've now set Danny up to be a lot more focused and mature in his second season.

Doctor DooM · 20-08-2017 3:27pm

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

I don't buy the whole "13 episodes is too many" thing tbh. If it didn't work for you with certain shows, it's the showrunners fault, not the format. The format is just the parameter that the showrunner has to work inside and if they can't, they're the ones to blame. The format really worked for me in all the shows tbh but I think probably the strongest (in those terms) was Daredevil S1, wherein Drew Goddard just nailed the consistency.

Can't disagree more man, some ideas just don't have the same scope as others. "rich white kid gets super powers and moans about it" just doesn't have the legs as any of the other characters, all of whom I really feel for in different ways, and series really had something to say.

That said I do think the showrunner (not sure who it was) made some critical mistakes in Iron Fist, including such wonderful tropes as Episode 1 style business deals pacing, and possibly the most boring trope of all, "hero loses his power, has to come to terms with himself before he can use it".

He's literally the character One Punch Man is designed to parody- but Defenders certainly makes him more likeable.

The White Wolf · 22-08-2017 10:26pm

Based on the trailers I was concerned that they'd push the we're not friends/a team stuff to groan inducing levels, but in the end I really liked the dynamics between the characters.

Cox and Ritter are the MVPS of the universe that Netflix and Marvel have built and they prove it here once again. Jones was still unfortunately weak for me as Fist. It's not that he's doing anything necessarily wrong. He's just fighting the unwavering tide of having been miscast in the first place. Colter has the cool factor down as the hero of the people but hasn't had the opportunity yet to truly flesh his character out beyond the usual tropes of the genre.

Weaver was ok, as in she did the best with what she had. She wasn't afforded the same opportunity that previous actors had been given in the preceding shows.

I enjoyed the Hand in Daredevil, felt it lost a bit of its mystique in Iron Fist, and ultimately was relegated to the sidelines here in favour of Elektra taking centre stage. Disappointing resolution to something that I felt showed early promise.

I enjoyed it anyway for the performances, but it didn't come close to Daredevil S1/S2 and Jessica Jones. I'd probably rank it ahead of Luke Cage with Iron Fist being an unfortunate situation altogether.

Doctor DooM · 23-08-2017 1:14pm

The White Wolf wrote: »

Based on the trailers I was concerned that they'd push the we're not friends/a team stuff to groan inducing levels, but in the end I really liked the dynamics between the characters.

Cox and Ritter are the MVPS of the universe that Netflix and Marvel have built and they prove it here once again. Jones was still unfortunately weak for me as Fist. It's not that he's doing anything necessarily wrong. He's just fighting the unwavering tide of having been miscast in the first place. Colter has the cool factor down as the hero of the people but hasn't had the opportunity yet to truly flesh his character out beyond the usual tropes of the genre.

Weaver was ok, as in she did the best with what she had. She wasn't afforded the same opportunity that previous actors had been given in the preceding shows.

I enjoyed the Hand in Daredevil, felt it lost a bit of its mystique in Iron Fist, and ultimately was relegated to the sidelines here in favour of Elektra taking centre stage. Disappointing resolution to something that I felt showed early promise.

I enjoyed it anyway for the performances, but it didn't come close to Daredevil S1/S2 and Jessica Jones. I'd probably rank it ahead of Luke Cage with Iron Fist being an unfortunate situation altogether.

I didn't- but should of- seen the Elektra thing coming. In the comics, she does a stint in charge of the hand.

I actually don't blame Finn Jones, I think he's just not been given much to do. He should be this unstoppable force of combat. He took on a dragon before he had any powers FFS. Yet he's consistently shown to be a bit dim, a bit annoying, and all I want to see is him kick the arse out of some bad guys with chi trails flailing around beautifully behind his hands as he does it.

I loved the DD/ JJ moments, and Colfer is money.

I actually did like they gave him and Jones some time to start working on a bit of chemistry. Hopefully that gets some deliberate direction now.

The White Wolf · 23-08-2017 3:44pm

Colter is money and perfect casting so agreed. Immense presence.

Nervous Wreck · 23-08-2017 4:43pm

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Can't disagree more man, some ideas just don't have the same scope as others. "rich white kid gets super powers and moans about it" just doesn't have the legs as any of the other characters, all of whom I really feel for in different ways, and series really had something to say.

That said I do think the showrunner (not sure who it was) made some critical mistakes in Iron Fist, including such wonderful tropes as Episode 1 style business deals pacing, and possibly the most boring trope of all, "hero loses his power, has to come to terms with himself before he can use it".

He's literally the character One Punch Man is designed to parody- but Defenders certainly makes him more likeable.

That's kinda the point though; "rich white kid gets super powers and moans about it" didn't have to be the direction they went. If they'd put more thought into the direction of the show as a whole, they could have easily made it better... that said, I really liked most of Iron Fist!

Agent Coulson · 29-08-2017 10:53am

There is rumours today that

Moon Knight

may appear in The Punisher which in turn would set up

Marvel Knights

run of shows.

Doctor DooM · 30-08-2017 8:10am

Agent Coulson wrote: »

There is rumours today that
Moon Knight
may appear in The Punisher which in turn would set up
Marvel Knights
run of shows.

I could definitely dig that.

That character starts out as a mercenary, right? Seems a good fit for Punny.

kerplun k · 31-08-2017 2:36am

Finally got around to finishing The Defenders this morning.
Tis was great, I was a tad bit disappointed, which was mainly due to my own massive expectations for it. It was impossible to live up to the hype I built around it. I was a big fan of all 5 shows that came before it, with DD S1, being the highlight for me.

I was just expecting it to be a bigger event than it was, but again this is more my own fault with impossible expectations rather than the quality of the show.

I was kinda hoping for a Coulson cameo to link things back to AoS, but then again, crossovers like that can get old, really fast. The interplay between all the main characters was great, which was a fun payoff from watching the individual shows. I really hope we get a season 2, which basically goes all in, Avengers style, and brings some of the AoS on board. Its probably just wishful thinking, and not realistic, but a season 2, main event style show would be fantastic, but I should probably just reset my expectations and enjoy it as it is.

I thought the show done a great job of setting up the next round of standalones, Iron fist in my eyes has been improved a lot, I actually liked his first series, but I think it would be excellent if they ran with the whole, him filling in for DD gig. JJ looks to be back in business and LC is ready to jump back into the fight with Mariah Dillard, with a less annoying, improved V:2.0 Misty Knight. It looks like Daredevil will be jumping into some version of the Born Again story.

This means each show can get straight back into the action, rather than taking a few episodes just to establish where everyone is.
I'm Already looking forward to The Punisher. Jon Bernthal was the best thing about DD S2, I haven't seen any trailers, or read anything about it, so I don't know what to expect, but I hope he's ultra violent. He was a complete vengeful bad-ass in DD, so I hope they don't shy away and continue this persona in his own series.

pixelburp · 08-09-2017 2:40pm

Finished Defenders off today and yeah, it definitely fizzles out by about episode 5; as before the biggest flaw is The Hand and its wishy-washy evilness that continued to be intentionally, and frustratingly, ambiguous. It's obviously an attempt to maintain mystery by withholding from the audience, but when they couldn't even bring themselves to properly explain Spoiler: The Substance, the uhh, substance, that gives them all eternal life to a newcomer, you know the writers are just over-reaching in keeping The Hand utterly unrelatable by way of mystery.

Anyway, it wasn't all bad; I really hope we see more crossovers now because the titular Defenders gelled really well. I wasn't expecting it, but Jessica & Matt worked well against each other, even betraying a smidgen of chemistry here & there; and Daredevil's po-faced seriousness could do with some snark. And I can't be the only one who really wants Luke & Danny to team up during their 'solo' runs. Speaking of Danny, the show managed to redeem him somewhat; he's still a total plonker, but by the last episode's end his character got a much needed polish & shine.

All in all, I hope The Defender is the capper to The Hand as adversaries in the Netflix Marvel universe: their story feels done, Spoiler: Electra's too & they just never worked for me in any case; either being too intangible, or not fully committed to any sci-fi premise to feel part of the MCU.

kerplun k wrote: »

[...]

I was kinda hoping for a Coulson cameo to link things back to AoS, but then again, [...]

Never, ever going to happen; thematically and tonally the Netflix shows are too far into their own world. More immediately, given they can't even bring themselves to mention the invasion of NY by aliens, instead coyly referring to it as 'The Incident', clearly shows the MCU is being kept as distant from the Netflix series as humanly possible.

I imagine the recent decision by Disney to bring all their Marvel properties into their own streaming service is probably another definitive blocker to any crossovers...

Agent Coulson · 20-09-2017 3:45pm

They are keeping the release date secert.

I have a feeling the will drop it with advertising it.

pixelburp · 20-09-2017 3:56pm

Big 'nope' for me; I get Punisher is a fairly big name, but I've never been able to get behind Frank Castle at all, let alone as protagonist or lead character. He's just a growling slab of meat, ploughing the clichéd "out for vengeance over a murdered loved one" plot-line into the ground. I'm a bit disappointed Netflix chose him as their first 'unscheduled' spin-off of their Marvel shows; there are surely more interesting candidates out there...

Agent Coulson · 21-09-2017 7:59pm

There hasn't been a crossover yet from the other parts of the MCU on a Netflix show.

I'm thinking The Punisher might just be the Netflix show that gets it.

If it's going to be done I have a gut feeling

......Nick Fury.....

might have a cameo.

HandsomeBob · 23-09-2017 9:28am

I've seen that the defenders has had disappointing viewership for Netflix. The click bait sites are running with the news and blaming Iron Fist for this but I think it's more complicated at that.

For one, I was never a fan of the marketing with the trailers going out of their way to push the we're not buds pitch. Which is fine, but there's subtlety and then there's having actors repeatedly utter awkward lines about same. For die hards like myself we were always going to watch but I wouldn't be surprised if that clumsy type of dourness put people off.

I mean in the same episode that they had the leads converge, by the end they had them standing together united, so pushing the dissension so hard was unnecessary.

The second issue was not Iron Fist in itself but the placing of the seasons chronologically. In hindsight, for me, Daredevil Season 2 should have been the lead in to The Defenders given the amount of focus that was given to Matt and where he was left by the end of Season 2. They could swapped around Iron Fist and Daredevil Season 2 and the story would have been none worse off, while also giving The Defenders a solid lead in.

So I wouldn't blame Iron Fist or any of the actors, more so Marvel for mishandling the "first phase" of their Netflix project at the final 2 hurdles.

IncognitoMan · 26-09-2017 7:19pm

So I've been making my way through the Netflix shows the last few weeks. I watched Daredevil season 1 when it came out but fell way behind on all the rest. My thoughts

Daredevil season 2:

Loved the punisher and can't wait for his show. Overall thought the season was weaker than the first but still had some amazing highs. Look forward to season 3. Very strong show.

Jessica Jones :

Depressing and difficult to get through at times. Killgrave was a great villain and he produced the best line of all the shows when he was arguing with Jessica at her family home. Went something like, "Do you know how difficult it is to be me. Having to constantly watch what you say and how you say it. Jesus christ Jessica; I once told a man to go screw himself. I mean, can you even imagine?"

Overall a good story but Jessica is probably the one I'm least interested in going forward at the moment.

Luke Cage:

I really enjoyed the Cage parts in Jessica Jones so was looking forward to this one and thought it was excellent for maybe 5/6 episodes with some dull ones thrown in and some outright stinkers in terms of decisions; namely the killing of cotton mouth. A low point only surpassed by the final fight between Cage and DiamondBack.

I don't really know what the point was in having Cage sleep with Misty when he was going onto have a love interest story with Clare the nurse.

It was very confusing to see Alfre Woodard play another character in the marvel universe. I thought we were going to explore the story of her son being killed during one of the Avengers fights in New York at first but no completely different character. Jarring.

I think cotton mouth could have been great given more time. Missed trick.

So it's Iron Fist next and then the defenders.

Erik Shin · 26-09-2017 7:34pm

People seem quick to slate Iron Fist, but I find the character a lot more complex than Jones and Murdock....have only watched 3 episodes of Defenders...and have to admit I'm liking it so far

HandsomeBob · 26-09-2017 8:01pm

Iron Fist's problem is its lead unfortunately, both for legitimate and illegitimate reasons.

In regards to the latter, once social media decided that whitewashing had occurred even though it hadn't, a lot of people were set on slating Finn and the show regardless of performance.

But the killer is just that, his performance. Finn Jones is an ok actor but he's not a lead in any way, shape or form. It's criminal that the most memorable character in my mind was the drunk dude with mad skills who had what, not even 5 mins of screen time?)

kerplun k · 26-09-2017 8:17pm

HandsomeBob wrote: »

Iron Fist's problem is its lead unfortunately, both for legitimate and illegitimate reasons.

In regards to the latter, once social media decided that whitewashing had occurred even though it hadn't, a lot of people were set on slating Finn and the show regardless of performance.

But the killer is just that, his performance. Finn Jones is an ok actor but he's not a lead in any way, shape or form. It's criminal that the most memorable character in my mind was the drunk dude with mad skills who had what, not even 5 mins of screen time?)

This is a perfect summarisation of why Iron Fist didn't land.

kerplun k · 26-09-2017 8:21pm

HandsomeBob wrote: »

It's criminal that the most memorable character in my mind was the drunk dude with mad skills who had what, not even 5 mins of screen time?)

That guy actually auditioned for the Iron Fist role.

http://www.vulture.com/2017/03/lewis-tan-marvel-iron-fist-interview.html

HandsomeBob · 26-09-2017 8:28pm

He would have been great. Really can't understand the thinking behind casting Finn. Between him and Henwick you'd swear they just decided to raid GoT alumni for their two leads.

I could understand if part of the process for auditioning was to test with Colter but even in that unlikely case, Jones and Colter only had likeable chemistry at best.

kerplun k · 26-09-2017 8:43pm

Yeah. They really missed a trick here. Not only would it have appeased the "pc" brigade, but clearly he was a more charismatic and engaging actor.

FunLover18 · 26-09-2017 9:59pm

IncognitoMan wrote:

Overall a good story but Jessica is probably the one I'm least interested in going forward at the moment.

This threw me but I then I read the rest of your post. (Although I'd still put JJ above Cage, myself)

IncognitoMan wrote:

So it's Iron Fist next and then the defenders.

IncognitoMan · 26-09-2017 11:59pm

FunLover18 wrote: »

This threw me but I then I read the rest of your post. (Although I'd still put JJ above Cage, myself)

Yeah I don't know. I think JJ had probably the best villain of all the shows I've seen so far but now he's gone, a big piece of what made her season interesting is gone. David Tennant was brilliant.

Kilgrave's death was very underwhelming at least to me and I'm not so sure JJ will have a foe as interesting as that again(very little knowledge of JJ on my part though). Feels like the show peaked. So going forward I'm not that excited currently for whatever is next for her.

But to be fair I'm saying this before watching the defenders so it could all change. Cage can be a bit dull as a character at times alright.

HandsomeBob · 27-09-2017 7:11am

I think Ritter can carry another Season of JJ no problem. For me she really was one of the highlights of The Defenders.

brianregan09 · 28-09-2017 6:05pm

I definitley think Jones was the problem in Iron Fist, Watched him in Leather Face recently and jesus he wasn't even close to the level of the other actors (some unknown) and I was willing him to die throughout

Penn · 29-09-2017 8:00am

brianregan09 wrote: »

I definitley think Jones was the problem in Iron Fist, Watched him in Leather Face recently and jesus he wasn't even close to the level of the other actors (some unknown) and I was willing him to die throughout

It really didn't help that he was cast quite late and didn't have a lot of time to rehearse fights and stuff. The fight scenes for the first half of the season at least were some of the worst I've seen. Jump cuts galore and he just constantly looked like he knew where the next hit was coming from and was waiting for it.

The Moleman · 01-10-2017 4:36pm

HandsomeBob wrote: »

Iron Fist's problem is its lead unfortunately, both for legitimate and illegitimate reasons.

In regards to the latter, once social media decided that whitewashing had occurred even though it hadn't, a lot of people were set on slating Finn and the show regardless of performance.

But the killer is just that, his performance. Finn Jones is an ok actor but he's not a lead in any way, shape or form. It's criminal that the most memorable character in my mind was the drunk dude with mad skills who had what, not even 5 mins of screen time?)

I disagree. I can't comment on why he is like as an actor because the only other thing I've seen if him is Game of Thrones ad it was a very small role.

The problem in Iron Fist is the writing of Danny Rand. He was just all over the place - first he was calm and centred, then a pouting money grabbing child and then suddenly he has an explosive temper.

Danny is supposed to be calm and focused. Nothing wrong with him getting angry but it has to make sense and not be an over reaction.

He was good in the first episode but just went downhill. He continued to be a pain until I watched episode 4 & 5 of The Defenders last night. The temper only appeared once and his interactions with the others were exactly how he should be.

The Moleman · 01-10-2017 4:40pm

HandsomeBob wrote: »

I think Ritter can carry another Season of JJ no problem. For me she really was one of the highlights of The Defenders.

I'd say more than one more season.

I was disappointed to see that Tennant is also returning for Season Two. Dead characters should remain dead sometimes no mater how fun they are.

I'm hoping Kilgrave is simply a recurring nightmare or an hallucination of some sort. I'd prefer Jessica to face new villains.

IncognitoMan · 01-10-2017 5:13pm

The Moleman wrote: »

I was disappointed to see that Tennant is also returning for Season Two. Dead characters should remain dead sometimes no mater how fun they are.

I'm hoping Kilgrave is simply a recurring nightmare or an hallucination of some sort. I'd prefer Jessica to face new villains.

What?

I do usually agree that a dead character should stay dead but in this case I think there's much more to come.

They obviously knew that a mistake was made killing him that early. But any subsequent deaths or defeating of the character will be lessened now.

It has the potential to be very good news for the series though imo. It certainly has increased my interest going forward.

The Moleman · 01-10-2017 6:43pm

IncognitoMan wrote: »

What?

I do usually agree that a dead character should stay dead but in this case I think there's much more to come.

They obviously knew that a mistake was made killing him that early. But any subsequent deaths or defeating of the character will be lessened now.

It has the potential to be very good news for the series though imo. It certainly has increased my interest going forward.

I meant to put that under a spoiler tag.

He is a great character and it was a first rate performance but that doesn't mean he should be a recurring character. And too many resurrections can spoil the fun.

Doctor DooM · 05-10-2017 11:05am

Even in the comics Killgrave has a healing factor as part of his purple powers

I knew watching it snapping his neck wasn't gonna do him in.

kerplun k · 05-10-2017 11:29am

I see

Iron Fist

is going to make an appearance in Luke Cage S2. I hope they are setting up a

heroes for hire

story arc.

Doctor DooM · 05-10-2017 11:35am

kerplun k wrote: »

I see
Iron Fist
is going to make an appearance in Luke Cage S2. I hope they are setting up a
heroes for hire
story arc.

This is the logical thing to do with him tbh. His character needs some working on.

Agent Coulson · 06-10-2017 12:24pm

The Punisher premiere postponed after the Las Vegas shootings.

http://ie.ign.com/articles/2017/10/05/netflix-reportedly-postpones-punisher-premiere

FunLover18 · 06-10-2017 3:03pm

Agent Coulson wrote:

The Punisher premiere postponed after the Las Vegas shootings.

Even before Las Vegas I was thinking that the current climate isn't the best for a show about a white, ex-military male who dishes out his own version of Justice using extreme violence. Like he's not like other vigilantes in that he actually kills people and what with the rise of white supremacy in the states it just didn't sit right.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying The Punishers shouldn't have been made and it's not like gun violence isn't promoted all over the media but the Punisher feels very on the nose at the moment. I'll still watch it when it does come out.

Marvel Neflix Thread

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