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Ibrahim Halawa acquited(mod warning in op-Heed it)

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    #992
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    end of the road wrote: »
    rgossip30 wrote: »
    A certain website is now looking for a donation for his home coming .


    which one?

    How much ya gonna give?


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    #993
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users Posts: 34,044 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    Thought as much that he would avoid my question. Worrying to think people think like that.


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    #994
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    Here is Mark on Cork Radio

    http://markhumphrys.com/halawa.html#redfm


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    #995
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    end of the road wrote: »
    well researched facts? you sure about that? ...

    He has offered to remove / correct anything on his website that is proven to be incorrect.
    Have you read his blog?
    Care to point out anything in the Halawa section on his blog that is incorrect so we may discuss it here..

    Here is a FAQ from his site, do you disagree with everything he says..
    Mark Humphreys wrote:
    FAQ - My position on the Halawa case.
    My position has been mis-represented by many people. So here is what I said while this case was on, from 2013 to 2017:

    On Ibrahim himself:
    Q.
    Should Ibrahim Halawa be in prison?
    A.
    No idea. He supported the MB, a fascist organisation that killed police and burnt Coptic churches. But I have seen no evidence that he did that.
    Q.
    Some people say he should be freed. Some say he should be jailed. Where do you stand?
    A.
    Neither. I do not take either position.
    Q.
    Do you trust Egypt to give Halawa a fair trial?
    A.
    No. I have no trust in the Egyptian government or courts. Egypt under Sisi is a tyranny. Just as it was a tyranny under the MB and a tyranny under Mubarak.
    Q.
    Are you upset that a MB guy is in prison?
    A.
    No, I can't say that could ever upset me.
    Q.
    Did Halawa tear up his Irish passport on video?
    A.
    I have seen no evidence for that story.
    Q.
    On the MB in general:
    Are MB members suffering abuse of their human rights under Sisi?
    A.
    Yes, probably. That's how Sisi (and every Egyptian regime) operates. No one gets justice in Egypt.
    Q.
    Is that bad?
    A.
    Yes, I guess, but it is nowhere near the worst thing wrong with Egypt. Egypt needs, among other things, proper freedom for Christians, gays, apostates, atheists and critics of Islam.
    Treatment of MB prisoners is entirely unimportant compared to these huge issues.
    Q.
    Do you feel personally upset that MB prisoners might suffer abuse of their rights in Egypt?
    A.
    No. Not really. I despise the MB and I am not interested in their problems.

    Other questions:
    Q.
    Should the Halawa sisters be extradited to Egypt?
    A.
    No. Ireland should not extradite people to Egypt.
    Q.
    Should Amnesty be defending Halawa?
    A.
    No. Amnesty should not defend Islamists.
    Q.
    Are you annoyed that the Irish government is helping Halawa?
    A.
    No. It's what governments do. But don't expect me to join in.
    Q.
    What else should the Irish government be doing?
    A.
    Asking what went wrong with immigration that a family that supports the Muslim Brotherhood was allowed settle in Ireland.
    Q.
    What would it take for you to support Halawa?
    A.
    Him denouncing sharia law and the MB, and calling for freedom for apostates, atheists, Copts and gays. Him declaring that Irish law is superior to sharia law.
    I am not campaigning for Halawa to be in prison (or to be freed). I have no idea about his guilt or innocence. I just want the Irish media to explain who he is and what he believes. I want them to cover the story with questioning and scepticism (as they should every story).


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    #996
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,272 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    rgossip30 wrote: »
    A certain website is now looking for a donation for his home coming .

    Let the lads over in Dubai pay to get Halawa back, sure they have lots of cash.

    I wouldn't give one cent to this.


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    #997
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    I think there is a certain cohort that fall hook line and sinker for marketing and specifically branding.

    You have the "Muslim Brotherhood". Sounds like a friendly movement where good Muslims meet up and discuss their feelings. Like Mens Shed's or the Scouts.

    Then you have ANTIFA. Anti-Fascists? How could you be against Anti-Facists? They are the good guys! Unless you're a fascist too?

    Black Lives Matter: How could you be against a group called Black Lives Matter? OMG you're such a racist.

    Solidarity/People Before Profit: But, but, but people BEFORE profit!!! And solidarity for workers over tax dodging evil business'.


    Easy to criticise Islamic Jihad, Communists or the Black Panthers, but once they fiddle around with their names they somehow find a whacky way to defend the group's.


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    #998
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,651 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    He has offered to remove / correct anything on his website that is proven to be incorrect.
    Have you read his blog?
    Care to point out anything in the Halawa section on his blog that is incorrect so we may discuss it here..

    Here is a FAQ from his site, do you disagree with everything he says..
    I want them to cover the story with questioning and scepticism (as they should every story).

    This last bit really stood out to me and I think best describes how I feel about this situation and the medias covering of it.


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    #999
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    VinLieger wrote: »
    This last bit really stood out to me and I think best describes how I feel about this situation and the medias covering of it.

    Indeed. I'm glad he's out, I hope he's home soon. I have kids that age and it would totally break my heart to see them locked up like that. I'm glad for him, his family and his true friends.

    The issue I have relates to honesty. If someone wants the support of the public they should at least do them (the public) the courtesy of being honest.

    So much of the story circulated by his supporters is riddled with inconsistencies so obvious that they must think we are right mugs. This presumption of the collective lack of intelligence is what I find utterly galling.

    He and his supporters should've been honest from the start......he was 17 when this started, and we can all appreciate that 17 year-olds get themselves into some awful messes.....but as with anything it's rarely the original transgression that gets you into trouble, it's the cover up.

    Hopefully he has the good sense when he gets home to not try and parlay this experience into some kind of media profile......I suspect it will not end well once the inevitable sympathy for him ebbs away.


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    #1000
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    It's not a big deal if he supported mb as a teenager, if any of us were on the same boat we'd do the same. . What's important is he gets support when he gets home and stays clear of any Crap like that.


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    #1001
    SSr0
    Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭SSr0


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    It's not a big deal if he supported mb as a teenager would have done the same, if any of us were on the same boat we'd do the same.

    My teenager isn't a terrorist, pretty sure all his friends aren't either.


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    #1002
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    SSr0 wrote: »
    My teenager isn't a terrorist, pretty sure all his friends aren't either.

    He's not a terrorist either.


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    #1003
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users Posts: 34,044 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    It's not a big deal if he supported mb as a teenager, if any of us were on the same boat we'd do the same. . What's important is he gets support when he gets home and stays clear of any Crap like that.

    Speak for yourself.


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    #1004
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    The_Kew_Tour wrote: »
    Speak for yourself.

    Why does it bother you so much?


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    #1005
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    It's not a big deal if he supported mb as a teenager, if any of us were on the same boat we'd do the same. . What's important is he gets support when he gets home and stays clear of any Crap like that.


    You say supported as in past tense. Considering his family ties and that he has been locked up with some of Egypt's most extreme islamists, we can pretty much assure that he Supports the Muslim Brotherhood.


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    #1006
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users Posts: 34,044 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    Why does it bother you so much?

    Does not bother me, I actually find it laughable. I know no lad I went to school with who supported any type of association with similar.


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    #1007
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    You say supported as in past tense. Considering his family ties and that he has been locked up with some of Egypt's most extreme islamists, we can pretty much assure that he Supports the Muslim Brotherhood.

    I'm sure the Gardaí can deal with anything like that.


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    #1008
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    The_Kew_Tour wrote: »
    Does not bother me, I actually find it laughable. I know no lad I went to school with who supported any type of association with similar.

    Translate the second sentence there so I can read it.


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    #1009
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    Translate the second sentence there so I can read it.

    No one he went to school with had links to terrorist groups. It's fairly self explanatory.


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    #1010
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    No one he went to school with had links to terrorist groups. It's fairly self explanatory.

    That's Great...


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    #1011
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    Here is Mark on Cork Radio

    http://markhumphrys.com/halawa.html#redfm


    I do not know Mark Humphreys,and had never heard of him until the Halawa case arose.
    Whilst he obviously has strong feelings on the Jewish situation,I am also very aware that he has not made any sensational claims regarding the Halawa case which he has not offered to correct should they be shown to be inaccurate.

    If anybody is due some praise in all of this it is the Neil Prendiville Show and it's team for taking the first steps,in Irish media terms,to encourage a more robust study of the Family's claims.

    He appears to be very up-front as to his views and sources,and quite correctly points out the absence of any actual rebuttal from the Family.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #1012
    Barry Badrinath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,460 ✭✭✭Barry Badrinath


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    It's not a big deal if he supported mb as a teenager, if any of us were on the same boat we'd do the same. . What's important is he gets support when he gets home and stays clear of any Crap like that.

    That may be your view but its fundamentally wrong on many counts.

    It is very much a big deal.

    1. A high percentage of children / teenagers who either have shown a strong interest in revolutionary ideals (political, religious, familial) or have been indoctrinated into that way of life have shown the capacity for future aggression and radicalisation.

    2. How is he supposed to "get away" and "stay clear" from the MB and those leanings when he is so intertwined with the Clonskeagh Mosque, 4 years surrounded by these guys in Egypt and the minority of dodgy fcukers in the Muslim community here.

    3. What possile de-radicalisation support do you think is here in Ireland?

    Your post, among many, is typically uneducated and fundamentally flawed. The views are very simplistic.

    Most pro-Halawa posters here have been unable to grasp the subtle complexities and nuances of what he and his family have been up to.

    The failings to take a step back and contextualise and assess the various working parts of the story have led to people taking it all at face value...."sure he has been found innocent"..."he didnt do anything"...etc etc.

    On the other hand, the very few people here who understand how to look at the strategic message (especially military folk) have been posting with clarity and have been beaten back with uneducated, closed minded and simplistic posts.

    To summarise this sh1t.

    Halawa and his family are not the innocent folk you all think they are. They did not get caught up in a protest while on holiday. He was found innocent but he is still guilty of supporting the MB and his future in Ireland and what he may have brought back with him and his accesability should be a concern for us all.


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    #1013
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »
    That may be your view but its fundamentally wrong on many counts.

    It is very much a big deal.

    1. A high percentage of children / teenagers who either have shown a strong interest in revolutionary ideals (political, religious, familial) or have been indoctrinated into that way of life have shown the capacity for future aggression and radicalisation.

    2. How is he supposed to "get away" and "stay clear" from the MB and those leanings when he is so intertwined with the Clonskeagh Mosque, 4 years surrounded by these guys in Egypt and the minority of dodgy fcukers in the Muslim community here.

    3. What possile de-radicalisation support do you think is here in Ireland?

    Your post, among many, is typically uneducated and fundamentally flawed. The views are very simplistic.

    Most pro-Halawa posters here have been unable to grasp the subtle complexities and nuances of what he and his family have been up to.

    The failings to take a step back and contextualise and assess the various working parts of the story have led to people taking it all at face value...."sure he has been found innocent"..."he didnt do anything"...etc etc.

    On the other hand, the very few people here who understand how to look at the strategic message (especially military folk) have been posting with clarity and have been beaten back with uneducated, closed minded and simplistic posts.

    To summarise this sh1t.

    Halawa and his family are not the innocent folk you all think they are. They did not get caught up in a protest while on holiday. He was found innocent but he is still guilty of supporting the MB and his future in Ireland and what he may have brought back with him and his accesability should be a concern for us all.
    Somebody needs to tell the Gardaí then


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    #1014
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users Posts: 15,281 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    I would imagine that certain branches of the Gardai pay close attention to that outfit in clonskeagh


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    #1015
    deco nate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭deco nate


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    Somebody needs to tell the Gardaí then

    How many times has this been posted in here now?

    Anyone??


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    #1016
    emo72
    Registered Users Posts: 6,186 ✭✭✭emo72


    that was a very interesting interview with humphries. he comes across as very fair and factual. kind of makes me wonder why people are putting the boot into him. he seems very fair, and said nothing bad about ibrahim, just questioning his fathers stated beliefs. which couldnt sit well with left leaning people.


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    #1017
    maxwell smart
    Registered Users Posts: 1,939 ✭✭✭maxwell smart


    emo72 wrote: »
    that was a very interesting interview with humphries. he comes across as very fair and factual. kind of makes me wonder why people are putting the boot into him. he seems very fair, and said nothing bad about ibrahim, just questioning his fathers stated beliefs. which couldnt sit well with left leaning people.

    People are putting the boot into him because he has an opinion which may indicate that someone of the Muslim faith may have views and beliefs that don't agree with the general views held by the majority of the public in the West, infact they may be radical and dangerous. Didn't you get the memo that your not allowed to say such things incase you insult said people??


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    #1018
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    Somebody needs to tell the Gardaí then

    Oh I'd imagine he'll have plenty of new "friends" when he gets back watching over him ;)


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    #1019
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Oh I'd imagine he'll have plenty of new "friends" when he gets back watching over him ;)

    That I wouldn't have a problem with. Id give him a chance but in fairness subversive behaviour is absolutely not tolerated in this country and if by any chance he is a criminal then they will know about and deal with it. I'm not a fan of people drumming up hate online about someone they don't know. We celebrated 1916 recently. I have mixed feelings about that. I think it's tragic when young people get sucked into violence and end up dead or executed or whatever. I hope he gets home and gets on with his life.


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    #1020
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    That I wouldn't have a problem with. Id give him a chance but in fairness subversive behaviour is absolutely not tolerated in this country and if by any chance he is a criminal then they will know about and deal with it. I'm not a fan of people drumming up hate online about someone they don't know. We celebrated 1916 recently. I have mixed feelings about that. I think it's tragic when young people get sucked into violence and end up dead or executed or whatever. I hope he gets home and gets on with his life.

    Likewise.

    I think the talk about radicalisation is a bit fanciful.....if anything he's a vulnerable lad and if he's not careful his "supporters" will be only too glad to manipulate him for their own political ends before tossing him aside once his "fifteen minutes" are up.


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    #1021
    Woodville56
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Woodville56


    "up to 40 Department of Foreign Affairs staff worked on Mr Halawa’s situation at any one time “and around 20,000 person-hours were put into this case”.
    Source - Irish Times online

    Wow - some resource input there !
    All payed for by us the taxpayers. There's an Irish guy incarcerated in the Philippines on a drugs charge, who is also protesting his innocence - wonder how many government staff and person hours spent trying to get him repatriated ?? Where's the liberal luvvies marching for his release or at least to have him serve out his sentence at home ?
    Not a liberal enough cause it seems ?


This discussion has been closed.
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