Are Saorview ever going to add more channels?

winston_1 · 15-09-2017 04:32PM

Video wrote: »

I remember when it first launched , on the wikipedia page there was tons of "future channels" like RTE 3, TV3 HD, TG4 HD etc now that has alll long dissapeared. when you look at what the uk have for free saorview is a joke, and they're looking to increase the license fee lol.

In the UK the licence fee only covers the BBC channels. All the others are commercially funded.
In Ireland I imagine the licence fee only covers RTE. You could try inviting the various commercial channels to come to Saorview.

winston_1 · 15-09-2017 04:32PM

Video wrote: »

I remember when it first launched , on the wikipedia page there was tons of "future channels" like RTE 3, TV3 HD, TG4 HD etc now that has alll long dissapeared. when you look at what the uk have for free saorview is a joke, and they're looking to increase the license fee lol.

In the UK the licence fee only covers the BBC channels. All the others are commercially funded.
In Ireland I imagine the licence fee only covers RTE. You could try inviting the various commercial channels to come to Saorview.

winston_1 · 15-09-2017 04:32PM

Video wrote: »

I remember when it first launched , on the wikipedia page there was tons of "future channels" like RTE 3, TV3 HD, TG4 HD etc now that has alll long dissapeared. when you look at what the uk have for free saorview is a joke, and they're looking to increase the license fee lol.

In the UK the licence fee only covers the BBC channels. All the others are commercially funded.
In Ireland I imagine the licence fee only covers RTE. You could try inviting the various commercial channels to come to Saorview.

decor58 · 15-09-2017 10:19PM

Video wrote:

I remember when it first launched , on the wikipedia page there was tons of "future channels" like RTE 3, TV3 HD, TG4 HD etc now that has alll long dissapeared. when you look at what the uk have for free saorview is a joke, and they're looking to increase the license fee lol.

In France on hols at present, TNT has 30 fta channels, 2 info, 2 promo, 2 news, 1 sport, 3 talk channels ( current affairs). It would be great to have more channels on Saorview but given the size of the French market and it supports 30 fta channels and the overspill of UK tv in Ireland what could we realistically support.

steveon · 15-09-2017 10:25PM

winston_1 wrote: »

In the UK the licence fee only covers the BBC channels. All the others are commercially funded.
In Ireland I imagine the licence fee only covers RTE. You could try inviting the various commercial channels to come to Saorview.

Tv3 gets 5% of the tv licence fee
and a certain percentage goes to TG4 as well as programming made by rte.

The Cush · 15-09-2017 10:54PM

steveon wrote: »

Tv3 gets 5% of the tv licence fee

Since when, source for this?

steveon · 15-09-2017 11:00PM

The Cush wrote: »

Since when, source for this?

Since Aug 2012
€125 of the license fee goes to rte
the remainder is split between others such as tv3
http://www.thejournal.ie/this-is-exactly-how-your-tv-licence-fee-is-used-542836-Aug2012/

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/tv3-s-red-rock-awarded-550-000-from-licence-fee-funds-1.2913148

The Cush · 15-09-2017 11:09PM

steveon wrote: »

Since Aug 2012
€125 of the license fee goes to rte
the remainder is split between others such as tv3
http://www.thejournal.ie/this-is-exactly-how-your-tv-licence-fee-is-used-542836-Aug2012/

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/tv3-s-red-rock-awarded-550-000-from-licence-fee-funds-1.2913148

Sound and Vision fund? All broadcasters, incl. RTÉ get a slice of that, no specific allocation to TV3.

Capt'n Midnight · 17-09-2017 10:38AM

steveon wrote: »

Tv3 gets 5% of the tv licence fee
and a certain percentage goes to TG4 as well as programming made by rte.

They'd get a lot more if they didn't show UK repeats and "talking heads" programs.

Thing is that most of the imports they show are available in HD on free to air satellite anyway. Red Rock was on Channel 5.

Gerry Wicklow · 17-09-2017 12:15PM

They still haven't figured out when you have the choice of fuzzy vision on Saorview or HD on satellite which one the viewer will choose.

Capt'n Midnight · 17-09-2017 03:02PM

Are Saorview ever going to add more channels?

Saorview don't add the channels.

It's like asking the Dublin Port Authority if they are adding any new ferries to Liverpool. It's the ferry company that has to decide if they want to use Dublin Port.

Technically speaking the GFA allows stations up north to broadcast down here.

The killer app for Saorview might be a top-up TV type service offering most of the main UK terresterial channels for a tenner a month - how much do SKY or Virgin pay for them ?

A pay TV service that can't offer the most watched UK channels at a price lower than SKY or Virgin can offer is a non-starter.

Unless Saorview offers more then the number of viewers will remain low.

Digifriendly · 19-09-2017 10:36PM

I live in NI and can receive Saorview but to be honest rarely watch it. Apart from RTE News Now and RTE1+1 and TV3 associates (the latter I do not watch) it seems pretty similar to what I got on analogue pre DSO. Radio stations are all RTE ones. So as my Newstalk FM signal here is iffy I would like it and other commercial stations to be added. Having RTE1HD is a bonus but apart from that I think Saorview is pretty poor fare. I know comparing it to Freeview is like apples and oranges but it could surely have a few more decent channels on it. I guess with Sky/Freesat having such a large takeup in ROI those who control Saorview don't have the incentive to expand its channel list. Nevertheless it could do with a makeover of some sort.

dxhound2005 · 19-09-2017 10:52PM

Digifriendly wrote: »

I live in NI and can receive Saorview but to be honest rarely watch it. Apart from RTE News Now and RTE1+1 and TV3 associates (the latter I do not watch) it seems pretty similar to what I got on analogue pre DSO. Radio stations are all RTE ones. So as my Newstalk FM signal here is iffy I would like it and other commercial stations to be added. Having RTE1HD is a bonus but apart from that I think Saorview is pretty poor fare. I know comparing it to Freeview is like apples and oranges but it could surely have a few more decent channels on it. I guess with Sky/Freesat having such a large takeup in ROI those who control Saorview don't have the incentive to expand its channel list. Nevertheless it could do with a makeover of some sort.

I don't think it is like comparing apples to oranges. Just like the UK the main channels that people watch the most were there before DSO. TV3 is much like ITV/UTV. Do you watch Channel 4 and Channel 5 and their offshoots? Is that the sort of "decent" fare you want or if not what do you want?

Digifriendly · 19-09-2017 11:25PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I don't think it is like comparing apples to oranges. Just like the UK the main channels that people watch the most were there before DSO. TV3 is much like ITV/UTV. Do you watch Channel 4 and Channel 5 and their offshoots? Is that the sort of "decent" fare you want or if not what do you want?

To answer your question and taking your point re Saorview and Freeview there then should be a lot more channels on Saorview. An equivalent of ITV4 for starters with some sport on it and all main channels in HD not just RTE1/2. Some red button options eg. extra sport/entertainment like 601 on Freeview and English language options for TG4's GAA/Rugby coverage similar to S4C in wales and BBC Alba in Scotland. Maybe I should ask you - do you think there should be a wider range of channels on Saorview and if so what should they be?

dxhound2005 · 19-09-2017 11:50PM

The weekly viewing figures from the Sunday Times for the UK show BBC 1 and ITV getting numbers around 7.5 million for their top programmes and around 3.5 for number 10. Channel 5 does not make 2 million for any programme, and Game of Thrones on Sky is 1.16 million. ITV 2, 3 and 4 don't even figure. Where is the audience in Ireland for any extra channels like that?

(Figures for week ending 3 Sept).

Digifriendly · 20-09-2017 08:47AM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The weekly viewing figures from the Sunday Times for the UK show BBC 1 and ITV getting numbers around 7.5 million for their top programmes and around 3.5 for number 10. Channel 5 does not make 2 million for any programme, and Game of Thrones on Sky is 1.16 million. ITV 2, 3 and 4 don't even figure. Where is the audience in Ireland for any extra channels like that?
(Figures for week ending 3 Sept).

Take your point. Do you think Saorview should stay as it is?

JDxtra · 20-09-2017 11:51AM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Are Saorview ever going to add more channels?

Saorview don't add the channels.

It's like asking the Dublin Port Authority if they are adding any new ferries to Liverpool. It's the ferry company that has to decide if they want to use Dublin Port.

But if the port wants to survive and thrive, it would do it's best to encourage additional ferries.

dxhound2005 · 20-09-2017 05:43PM

Digifriendly wrote: »

Take your point. Do you think Saorview should stay as it is?

If RTE could get as much money as the BBC, I would like to see RTE 1 and RTE 2 producing more original material of high quality. And setting up another channel or two to carry repeats, much like the offshoots of ITV, Channel 4 and 5 do and as BBC 4 does. In today’s listings RTE 1 has 16 repeats out of 39 programmes and RTE 2 has 18 out of 32.

But with any increase in the licence fee being politically impossible as would be a Revenue enforced broadcasting charge, then this can’t happen. Just setting up new channels for the sake of it with no funding model will only give more and more repeats. And if nobody is watching what is the point?

TG4 can't afford to pay for HD and even providing commentaries in English on sports events would cost them money they haven't got.

Capt'n Midnight · 20-09-2017 06:09PM

JDxtra wrote: »

But if the port wants to survive and thrive, it would do it's best to encourage additional ferries.

In the commercial world it's unsustainable a have a ferry port running at half capacity and then only charge users half the real running costs needed to keep it open.

At present we have a setup where it's cheaper for TV3 & co. to show low quality pictures even though it would use no extra bandwidth or electricity to transmit in HD.

Sam Russell · 20-09-2017 07:24PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

In the commercial world it's unsustainable a have a ferry port running at half capacity and then only charge users half the real running costs needed to keep it open.

At present we have a setup where it's cheaper for TV3 & co. to show low quality pictures even though it would use no extra bandwidth or electricity to transmit in HD.

As we all know, the current charging regime on Saorview is fascicle with the simple objective of keeping TV3 (as it was) quiet. It should be redrawn in one of many ways.

1. Redefine SD to be 720 by 576i and charge a minimum bandwidth charge so PQ is respectable. This would not increase charges greatly - and certainly nothing like the €2.5 m quoted for HD. [It is only €6m for a complete mux that will cover 4 HD channels].

2. Have RTE take Mux 1 and pay 50% (€6m) of the total charge. Even this would be a cop out as RTE own and fund Saorview and both muxes.

3. Have all channels up their bandwidth/resolution to keep the existing charges but use all the available bandwidth.

Any of these would improve viewer experience significantly.

I]Although I seem to be banging on about this a lot, I have no connection with any of the players involved in DTV or anyone else. I just do the sums and read the reports.[/I

dxhound2005 · 20-09-2017 07:33PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

As we all know, the current charging regime on Saorview is fascicle with the simple objective of keeping TV3 (as it was) quiet. It should be redrawn in one of many ways.

1. Redefine SD to be 720 by 576i and charge a minimum bandwidth charge so PQ is respectable. This would not increase charges greatly - and certainly nothing like the €2.5 m quoted for HD. [It is only €6m for a complete mux that will cover 4 HD channels].

2. Have RTE take Mux 1 and pay 50% (€6m) of the total charge. Even this would be a cop out as RTE own and fund Saorview and both muxes.

3. Have all channels up their bandwidth/resolution to keep the existing charges but use all the available bandwidth.

Any of these would improve viewer experience significantly.

I]Although I seem to be banging on about this a lot, I have no connection with any of the players involved in DTV or anyone else. I just do the sums and read the reports.[/I

I posted this on the TG4 HD thread. From the RTE Annual Report. So the licence fee was not able to fund 2 RN and they have to get their money to pay back the loans from the broadcasters.

RTɒs banking arrangements and facilities are very important to the
organisation, together with reviewing the adequacy of facilities. This
focus on funding remains a key priority for 2017.
At 31 December 2016, RTÉ had bank borrowings of €57.9 million (2015
€50.6 million) comprised of:

• 2rn, RTɒs transmission subsidiary, has a €40 million project finance
loan facility agreement with Barclays Bank as part of the funding for
the transmission and distribution infrastructure required for the Digital
Terrestrial Television (DTT) project. This facility is outstanding at 31
December 2016. An additional term loan facility for €13 million was
also arranged in 2014, which was fully drawn down in 2016. Capital
repayments on this loan will commence in 2017.

• The Bank of Ireland term loan facility drawn down in 2012 and
repayable over a five-year period with €1.9 million outstanding at 31
December 2016. In January 2016 a new revolving credit facility for €15
million was also arranged, of which €3 million is drawn at 31 December
2016

Digifriendly · 20-09-2017 10:42PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If RTE could get as much money as the BBC, I would like to see RTE 1 and RTE 2 producing more original material of high quality. And setting up another channel or two to carry repeats, much like the offshoots of ITV, Channel 4 and 5 do and as BBC 4 does. In today’s listings RTE 1 has 16 repeats out of 39 programmes and RTE 2 has 18 out of 32.

But with any increase in the licence fee being politically impossible as would be a Revenue enforced broadcasting charge, then this can’t happen. Just setting up new channels for the sake of it with no funding model will only give more and more repeats. And if nobody is watching what is the point?

TG4 can't afford to pay for HD and even providing commentaries in English on sports events would cost them money they haven't got.

You know the facts and figures and I have to admit being north of the border I simply don't have the info. that you have. Looks like it ultimately comes down to money at the end of the day. In light of this might it be better to scrap the whole exercise and somehow encourage all those with Saorview only to either switch to Sky or Saorsat. May seem a bit drastic but money saved could be put into more quality programming rather than as you rightly say lots of repeats.

dxhound2005 · 20-09-2017 11:16PM

Digifriendly wrote: »

You know the facts and figures and I have to admit being north of the border I simply don't have the info. that you have. Looks like it ultimately comes down to money at the end of the day. In light of this might it be better to scrap the whole exercise and somehow encourage all those with Saorview only to either switch to Sky or Saorsat. May seem a bit drastic but money saved could be put into more quality programming rather than as you rightly say lots of repeats.

The infrastructure has been there for decades. Saorview is just a name for a group of channels, the main ones of which have also been there for decades. The ones which the vast majority always watched and continue to watch. Why would anyone want to close it down?

Digifriendly · 21-09-2017 05:49PM

Simple answer - because it is so poor fare. No real advance on analogue to be honest.

dxhound2005 · 21-09-2017 06:04PM

I don't think your viewing habits as you outlined them would allow you to make a fair judgement.

I live in NI and can receive Saorview but to be honest rarely watch it.

I am also being honest with my opinions.

Sam Russell · 21-09-2017 07:25PM

Digifriendly wrote: »

Simple answer - because it is so poor fare. No real advance on analogue to be honest.

This is nonsense.

1. Analogue cost €3m per channel. Four channels [RTE 1 & 2; TV3; TG4 = €12 million] DTT costs €12 million for two muxes that can carry 8 HD channels or 24 SD channels or a mix. Saorview is forced to burn off bandwidth because of the stupid billing system insisted upon by an agreement made by ComReg, and BAI to placate one of the broadcasters.

2. Picture Quality on DTT is fantastic compared to analogue. No fizz and pop, snow, shadows, fade or colour changes as the signal reduces - that is until it falls off the digital cliff, and disappears.

3. DTT provides 8 channels , but could provide many more, or HD quality on just TWO frequencies (Muxes).

4. Saorview is not responsible for the content. If broadcasters are happy to put out rubbish, then so be it - it is not the platforms fault.

5. Over 98% of households can receive Saorview from a rooftop aerial - compared to 80% who could receive TV3 from a rooftop aerial in the analogue days. Saorsat is available for those that cannot get Saorview (although it is a specialist installation).

Don't blame 2RN or Saorview for the failings of the Minister for Communications, BAI, ComReg, or one of the broadcasters for the current state of Saorview. Instead write to those listed above and complain about it. It is unlikely you will even get a reply making any sense, but there you go.

dxhound2005 · 21-09-2017 07:37PM

Just to add to that, the licence fee in 2003 was €150, 2004 €152, 2005 €155, 2006 €158, 2008 €160 with no increase since. There is no political will to ask the public to fund the system properly and probably no will among the public to do so. That is still enough to keep RTE 1 and 2 up to the standard they were before digital. But it cannot fund a whole slew of new channels.

Digifriendly · 22-09-2017 05:57PM

Shut the whole kabush down I say and continue to watch UK channels. Watching BBC NI/UTV news gives you almost as much news from south of the border as RTE News does!

Sam Russell · 22-09-2017 09:33PM

Digifriendly wrote: »

Shut the whole kabush down I say and continue to watch UK channels. Watching BBC NI/UTV news gives you almost as much news from south of the border as RTE News does!

We could also get rid of the Irish newspapers and do with Murdoch's The Times (Irish Edition), Irish Sun, The Sunday Times, and the watch Sky News and other Sky channels.

We could also leave the EU and rejoin the UK (if they would take us back), and send our soldiers to serve in Afghanistan.

NOT.

You can watch the UK channels for free on Freesat, if that is what you want, so why close down Saorview?

lertsnim · 22-09-2017 10:24PM

Digifriendly wrote: »

Shut the whole kabush down I say and continue to watch UK channels. Watching BBC NI/UTV news gives you almost as much news from south of the border as RTE News does!

What nonsense.

Are Saorview ever going to add more channels?

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