Ibrahim Halawa acquited(mod warning in op-Heed it)

deco nate · 20-09-2017 8:21pm

First Up wrote: »

Dunno. In some circumstances people protesting a government overthrow and a massacre of civilians by the army would be called brave and idealistic. Maybe they felt there was strength in numbers.

But if you are in a building with a baying mob outside you would be entitled to be cautious.

So kinda like what happened with the MB regime that came before?

EMPunk · 20-09-2017 8:26pm

deco nate wrote: »

So kinda like what happened with the MB regime that came before?

Deco shhhhhhh , how dare you come at him with documented reality like that , thats the sort of fact we pretend don't exist , logic smogic!

Regardless of whether he committed a "crime" that warranted a 4year detention or not , if you think , and i mean genuinely believe that this poor innocent lad was "on holidays" and " got mixed up in this" you are not an idiot , not misinformed , not a moron , not left wing , right wing or feckin' chicken wing , you are an asshole , simple as that an asshole ....

A few wont like reading that and I know i shall be reprimanded for some bs reason or another as a result of posting this but ban me , warn me , flame me , whatever you like but it IS that simple , people that deny the obvious are assholes of the highest order

CollyFlower · 20-09-2017 9:24pm

Is he home yet?

Did he get the government jet?

Divelment · 20-09-2017 9:35pm

Fair play to him, he is an Irish citizen, having been born in Ireland and whatever about his alleged crime in Egypt, it should be completely unacceptable to all Irish citizens that an Irish citizen, one of our own, that runs into difficulty with the law in any other country, should have to spend 4 years in custody awaiting trial.

Innocent or guilty, this is completely unacceptable, and I have no problem with the government jet bringing him home, it is the least we can do for him after him facing what was effectively a 4 year custodial sentence in what is pretty much a 3rd world country at least when it comes to the administration of justice, without trial.

EDIT: I'd rather see the government jet being used to bring this lad home than used as a private taxi for some useless FG ministerial stoogie.

end of the road · 20-09-2017 9:37pm

CollyFlower wrote: »

Is he home yet?

Did he get the government jet?

no to both so far.

mcko · 20-09-2017 9:52pm

Fair play to him, he is an Irish citizen, having been born in Ireland and whatever about his alleged crime in Egypt, it should be completely unacceptable to all Irish citizens that an Irish citizen, one of our own, that runs into difficulty with the law in any other country, should have to spend 4 years in custody awaiting trial.

Innocent or guilty, this is completely unacceptable, and I have no problem with the government jet bringing him home, it is the least we can do for him after him facing what was effectively a 4 year custodial sentence in what is pretty much a 3rd world country at least when it comes to the administration of justice, without trial.

EDIT: I'd rather see the government jet being used to bring this lad home than used as a private taxi for some useless FG ministerial stooge.

Would you F Off.

Mod: Banned

Divelment · 20-09-2017 10:12pm

mcko wrote: »

Fair play to him, he is an Irish citizen, having been born in Ireland and whatever about his alleged crime in Egypt, it should be completely unacceptable to all Irish citizens that an Irish citizen, one of our own, that runs into difficulty with the law in any other country, should have to spend 4 years in custody awaiting trial.

Innocent or guilty, this is completely unacceptable, and I have no problem with the government jet bringing him home, it is the least we can do for him after him facing what was effectively a 4 year custodial sentence in what is pretty much a 3rd world country at least when it comes to the administration of justice, without trial.

EDIT: I'd rather see the government jet being used to bring this lad home than used as a private taxi for some useless FG ministerial stooge.

Would you F Off.

What part of the above have you an issue with? Maybe debate the subject rather than make a tít out of yourself on thread cursing and swearing and nobody has a clue what your view is...

CollyFlower · 20-09-2017 10:26pm

If the government do send a plane to bring him home, this is a case of "keeping your enemy close"......

Jawgap · 20-09-2017 10:36pm

Worth remembering that he is, in fact, a dual citizen......of Ireland and Egypt.

And he travelled under his Egyptian passport.......so he seemed quite ok about his Egyptian birthright until the doo-doo hit the fan then he decided to be a Paddy......an innocent abroad.......just on a bit of an oul' holiday, much like Magaluf but with fewer Irish bars........and enough mugs fell for it for him to become a cause celebre!!

deco nate · 20-09-2017 10:42pm

Jawgap wrote: »

Worth remembering that he is, in fact, a dual citizen......of Ireland and Egypt.

And he travelled under his Egyptian passport.......so he seemed quite ok about his Egyptian birthright until the doo-doo hit the fan then he decided to be a Paddy......an innocent abroad.......just on a bit of an oul' holiday, much like Magaluf but with fewer Irish bars........and enough mugs fell for it for him to become a cause celebre!!

I'd still like to know how when he was on holiday, in a protest of thousands of people. He got picked to speak in front of the protesters. No one seems to address the point......

riffmongous · 20-09-2017 10:42pm

Jawgap wrote: »

Worth remembering that he is, in fact, a dual citizen......of Ireland and Egypt.

And he travelled under his Egyptian passport.......so he seemed quite ok about his Egyptian birthright until the doo-doo hit the fan then he decided to be a Paddy......an innocent abroad.......just on a bit of an oul' holiday, much like Magaluf but with fewer Irish bars........and enough mugs fell for it for him to become a cause celebre!!

Ah come on, if you have a choice it seems logical to use the passport of the country you are travelling to. (whether it actually a good idea or not would need a bit of legal exp to know)

CollyFlower · 20-09-2017 10:45pm

We'll be a laughing stock to the world when /if something drastic happens and his name is connected.... Anyway, he's only a child, he only looks about 12 years old.

deco nate · 20-09-2017 10:45pm

riffmongous wrote: »

Ah come on, if you have a choice it seems logical to use the passport of the country you are travelling to. (whether it actually a good idea or not would need a bit of legal exp to know)

Read back a few pages, it was addressed. I don't know if it's true or not, but the poster seems to know his/her stuff. Yet the Irish government got involved anyway, if true.

riffmongous · 20-09-2017 10:46pm

deco nate wrote: »

I'd still like to know how when he was on holiday, in a protest of thousands of people. He got pick to speak in front of the protesters. No one seems to address the point......

He wasn't the only one, they picked out a few other dual citizens and asked them to speak, if you believe the Mark Humphreys blog

riffmongous · 20-09-2017 10:47pm

deco nate wrote: »

Read back a few pages, it was addressed. I don't know if it's true or not, but the poster seems to know his/her stuff. Yet the Irish government got involved anyway, if true.

I'll have a look :thumbsup:

deco nate · 20-09-2017 10:50pm

riffmongous wrote: »

He wasn't the only one, they picked out a few other dual citizens and asked them to speak, if you believe the Mark Humphreys blog

Yes, but HOW were they picked? Did you read my questions about it?
Did he put in an application before hand ?
He was on holidays.
Or was it nepotism.
Again he was on holidays.
How was he picked from thousands of protesters?
How did a kid from Ireland that was on holidays end up on stage addressing the protesters?
It's a key point tbh

Billy86 · 20-09-2017 10:52pm

Donal55 wrote: »

I'll hazard a guess and say the truth will be the last thing we'll get when he kisses the tarmac at Dublin.

I'd imagine the Gardai and intelligence services have done plenty of investigating on this guy over the last four years, and I also imagine they'll be asking him plenty of questions behind closed doors in the near future including those that they already know the answers to in order to test his honesty, as well as setting up services to assist with his re-integration after four years who will also have the task of monitoring and reporting on his progress or any red flags he shows.

I would also imagine in public he would want to keep his story consistent with those told to the authorities and for that reason, I don't see any reason for him to lie in public about the circumstances surrounding his time in Egypt and I don't see much chance of him getting away with lying about it to the authorities.

Barry Badrinath · 20-09-2017 10:55pm

A few other things to consider.

1. How does he feel about "Ireland letting him down" by not "doing enough" to get him free.

2. What has he been exposed to during those 4 years. He was locked up with a fcuk tonne of nut jobs.

3. If he was indeed "on holiday" and had "no connection to the MB".....does he now?

CollyFlower · 20-09-2017 11:00pm

Billy86 wrote: »

I'd imagine the Gardai and intelligence services have done plenty of investigating on this guy over the last four years, and I also imagine they'll be asking him plenty of questions behind closed doors in the near future including those that they already know the answers to in order to test his honesty, as well as setting up services to assist with his re-integration after four years who will also have the task of monitoring and reporting on his progress or any red flags he shows.

I would also imagine in public he would want to keep his story consistent with those told to the authorities and for that reason, I don't see any reason for him to lie in public about the circumstances surrounding his time in Egypt and I don't see much chance of him getting away with lying about it to the authorities.

I really don't think our Garda are equipped to deal with theres sort of things, jesus, they can't even get the Bereath Tests right.

riffmongous · 20-09-2017 11:02pm

deco nate wrote: »

Yes, but How were they picked? Did you read my questions about it?

I only saw what you posted above, and I mean I can only guess as to how, but if they made themselves known to any of the organisers they'd probably have been asked to say a few words to show the crowd some international solidarity? Just guessing

Edit: Just saw your questions there in the edit, the above would be my guess but yours is just as valid. We'll see what he says himself I suppose

Barry Badrinath · 20-09-2017 11:02pm

CollyFlower wrote: »

I really don't think our Garda are equipped to deal with theres sort of things, jesus, they can't even get the Bereath Tests right.

Breath tests = Bog standard Garda.

There are specialist AGS who deal with this type of thing, not fcuktards.

riffmongous · 20-09-2017 11:03pm

CollyFlower wrote: »

I really don't think our Garda are equipped to deal with theres sort of things, jesus, they can't even get the Bereath Tests right.

Counter-terrorism is the one thing I trust the Gardai on tbh

Donal55 · 20-09-2017 11:04pm

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Breath tests = Bog standard Garda.

There are specialist AGS who deal with this type of thing, not fcuktards.

And we're expected to believe that!
After all that's gone on.

Barry Badrinath · 20-09-2017 11:07pm

Donal55 wrote: »

And we're expected to believe that!
After all that's gone on.

Im not interested in persuading you. If you are arguing against it, it means you dont know anything about it.

It makes no difference to me.

weldoninhio · 20-09-2017 11:08pm

riffmongous wrote: »

Counter-terrorism is the one thing I trust the Gardai on tbh

Where does that trust come from??

riffmongous · 20-09-2017 11:09pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Where does that trust come from??

Their record in dealing with Dissident Republicanism. There has been a steady diet of arrests, SCC cases and seizures the last years

deco nate · 20-09-2017 11:10pm

riffmongous wrote: »

I only saw what you posted above, and I mean I can only guess as to how, but if they made themselves known to any of the organisers they'd probably have been asked to say a few words to show the crowd some international solidarity? Just guessing

Yes that is what I'm getting at, the family said he went for a holiday yet a poster replied to me saying that a group called "Egyptians Abroad for Democracy arranged it as part of the organised protests. He was one of a number who spoke." so my questions still stand

Barry Badrinath · 20-09-2017 11:10pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Where does that trust come from??

The evolution of home grown terrorism over a number of decades and the emergence of combatting militant criminal cartels.

CollyFlower · 20-09-2017 11:10pm

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Breath tests = Bog standard Garda.

There are specialist AGS who deal with this type of thing, not fcuktards.

Well they haven't come under the spotlight yet.

weldoninhio · 20-09-2017 11:11pm

riffmongous wrote: »

Their record in dealing with Dissident Republicanism.

That ended over 20 years ago. The newer cops won't have had any real-time experience in counter terrorism.

riffmongous · 20-09-2017 11:12pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

That ended over 20 years ago. The newer cops won't have had any real-time experience in counter terrorism.

Dissident

There has been a steady diet of arrests, SCC cases and seizures the last years, it doesn't get a lot of attention but they have been there.

riffmongous · 20-09-2017 11:13pm

deco nate wrote: »

Yes that is what I'm getting at, the family said he went for a holiday yet a poster replied to me saying that a group called "Egyptians Abroad for Democracy arranged it as part of the organised protests. He was one of a number who spoke." so my questions still stand

You mean they organised the holiday?

deco nate · 20-09-2017 11:13pm

riffmongous wrote: »

I only saw what you posted above, and I mean I can only guess as to how, but if they made themselves known to any of the organisers they'd probably have been asked to say a few words to show the crowd some international solidarity? Just guessing

Edit: Just saw your questions there in the edit, the above would be my guess but yours is just as valid. We'll see what he says himself I suppose

I had posted it in a post before that, I edited it so you could see it without looking back. Only 1 reply to it before yourself

Barry Badrinath · 20-09-2017 11:13pm

CollyFlower wrote: »

Well they haven't come under the spotlight yet.

How is that evidence that they cant do their job?

Nonsense argument.

weldoninhio · 20-09-2017 11:14pm

riffmongous wrote: »

Dissident

There has been a steady diet of arrests, SCC cases and seizures the last years, it doesn't get a lot of attention but they have been there.

The "dissidents" are criminals using the name of the IRA etc as a brand. They are nowhere near the level of the 80s version. And nowhere near the level of Islamic terror agents/lone wolves.

deco nate · 20-09-2017 11:16pm

riffmongous wrote: »

You mean they organised the holiday?

Ah, come on! The question was, was it really a holiday.
Or was it all along the plan to goto the protest. Not that hard to understand

OK I'll post it again.

Edit: he was on holiday no?
So how was he picked from thousands of protesters to be on stage to talk to the protesters?
Did he apply beforehand?

Or was he just amazingly picked from the crowd? Or was it nepotism?

Didn't he just go to see his family for a holiday?

So how did a 17 year old kid end up on stage?

Divelment · 20-09-2017 11:22pm

riffmongous wrote: »

I only saw what you posted above, and I mean I can only guess as to how, but if they made themselves known to any of the organisers they'd probably have been asked to say a few words to show the crowd some international solidarity? Just guessing

Edit: Just saw your questions there in the edit, the above would be my guess but yours is just as valid. We'll see what he says himself I suppose

We had huge protests in Ireland over water charges, we had anti austerity protests, I was at the water protests and there was a definite feeling at the time that it could all kick off at any moment and that street riots would ensue. I remember being up at the front of the protest and Merrion Street was completely closed off and there was the Public Order Unit facing off against probably 100,000 water protestors, there were 3 lines of Gardai squaring up to the public in between the Westmoreland end of Merrion Street and Leinster House, just in case it all kicked off.

My point being that political protests are, or at least should be, part and parcel of living in a modern democracy. Talking or addressing a crowd at these protests is not a criminal offence, and should never result in a person being kept in 3rd world prison conditions for a period of 4 years awaiting trial.

CollyFlower · 20-09-2017 11:22pm

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

How is that evidence that they cant do their job?

Nonsense argument.

I wasn't presenting it as evidence, just saying the Irish police force wouldn't know what to do if there was an unexpected terrorist attack and I wouldn't expect them to be ready or know what to do, theyd just deal with the aftermath.

riffmongous · 20-09-2017 11:22pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

The "dissidents" are criminals using the name of the IRA etc as a brand. They are nowhere near the level of the 80s version. And nowhere near the level of Islamic terror agents/lone wolves.

It's more complicated than that, that there are criminals operating as dissidents doesn't mean that every dissident is a common criminal. Indeed criminality has always been a part of republicanism as a means of raising funds, even before you get to gangs/former members just using the name as a brand. In 2015 there were over 50 bomb attacks in the North, that is not that work of criminals.

link

david75 · 20-09-2017 11:28pm

No matter what this entire thread is a pretty revealing and alarming snapshot of how Irish people are.

Leftie Pontificates, poorly informed ignorants and random ranters

Good work lads.

deco nate · 20-09-2017 11:31pm

david75 wrote: »

No matter what this entire thread is a pretty revealing and alarming snapshot of how Irish people are.

Leftie Pontificates, poorly informed ignorants and random ranters

Good work lads.

That's just like, you're opinion man...

VinLieger · 20-09-2017 11:33pm

First Up wrote: »

OK; he is neither.

But somehow he still deserves a free flight home on a private jet at the expense of the taxpayer?

You seem to be very well acquainted with the soecifics do you know what passport he used to enter the country?

riffmongous · 20-09-2017 11:35pm

deco nate wrote: »

Ah, come on! The question was, was it really a holiday.
Or was it all along the plan to goto the protest. Not that hard to understand

OK I'll post it again.

Edit: he was on holiday no?
So how was he picked from thousands of protesters to be on stage to talk to the protesters?
Did he apply beforehand?

Or was he just amazingly picked from the crowd? Or was it nepotism?

Didn't he just go to see his family for a holiday?

So how did a 17 year old kid end up on stage?

Like I said he was not the only dual citizen who spoke. If he made himself known I could imagine he would be asked to speak. If he was there on holiday and then asked to speak or was picked, we have to hear his story to find out, and then look for inconsistencies. Your questions are ones to be asked to him.

Either way though, speaking at a rally doesn't mean you deserve to be locked up for 4 years awaiting trial on trumped up charges of murder. None of what he apparently said at the rally is extreme or islamic or whatever, nothing more than free speech

20-09-2017 11:35pm

His new Irish passport is ready, hopefully he keeps this one in one piece.

Also the suggestion of the government jet being sent over has been dismissed

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/ibrahim-halawa-gets-new-irish-passport-ahead-of-release-1.3227979?mode=amp

deco nate · 20-09-2017 11:38pm

riffmongous wrote: »

Like I said he was not the only dual citizen who spoke. If he made himself known I could imagine he would be asked to speak. If he was there on holiday and then asked to speak or was picked, we have to hear his story to find out, and then look for inconsistencies. Your questions are ones to be asked to him.

Either way though, speaking at a rally doesn't mean you deserve to be locked up for 4 years awaiting trial on trumped up charges of murder. None of what he apparently said at the rally is extreme or islamic or whatever, nothing more than free speech

Locked up for murder?

Bygumbo · 20-09-2017 11:39pm

I don't know every detail of this case, but I think its fair to say that theres something dodgy about all the circumstances, no smoke without fire etc.

There are two ways I look at this;
A: He was there for dodgy purposes and has dodgy links in his family and took advantage of the irish passport he just so happened to have. But he also spent 4 years with, I would assume, some of the most extreme islamists in Egypt.

B: Its all a gigantic coincidence and he was in the wrong place at the wrong time, had the wrong family connections at the wrong time. But he also spent 4 years with probably very extreme islamists.

Considering that young muslims can apparently be so easily influenced via the internet to join terrorist causes against the west, and that he actually LIVED with these influencers 24/7 for years.........authorities need to keep an eyeball on him at all times, and if theres the slightest whiff of more coincidences, he should be dealt with immediately and accordingly.

He has used up any goodwill he had, no more second chances considering the potential stakes.

riffmongous · 20-09-2017 11:41pm

deco nate wrote: »

Locked up for murder?

That's one of the things he was charged with. It's strange but you never really see it reported what he was actually charged with, I just saw it in a Guardian article yesterday

Halawa was accused of several crimes, including endangering public peace, resisting arrest, violating a mosque and murdering a police officer who reportedly died during the protests.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/18/irish-egyptian-man-acquitted-four-years-after-cairo-protest-arrest

deco nate · 20-09-2017 11:43pm

riffmongous wrote: »

Like I said he was not the only dual citizen who spoke. If he made himself known I could imagine he would be asked to speak. If he was there on holiday and then asked to speak or was picked, we have to hear his story to find out, and then look for inconsistencies. Your questions are ones to be asked to him.

Either way though, speaking at a rally doesn't mean you deserve to be locked up for 4 years awaiting trial on trumped up charges of murder. None of what he apparently said at the rally is extreme or islamic or whatever, nothing more than free speech

"If he made himself known"
"was asked to speak" "if he was there on holiday" that is the time line I want to know about. It will answer most questions

deco nate · 20-09-2017 11:45pm

riffmongous wrote: »

That's one of the things he was charged with. It's strange but you never really see it reported what he was actually charged with, I just saw it in a Guardian article yesterday

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/18/irish-egyptian-man-acquitted-four-years-after-cairo-protest-arrest

That's a strange one alright. I never heard of that. The other accusations yes but Murder, no.but they do tend to lump accusations to protesters not just one that did it. Still In my mind a lot of questions to be answered

Barry Badrinath · 20-09-2017 11:48pm

CollyFlower wrote: »

I wasn't presenting it as evidence, just saying the Irish police force wouldn't know what to do if there was an unexpected terrorist attack and I wouldn't expect them to be ready or know what to do, theyd just deal with the aftermath.

I see and thats very understandable if you have no knowledge of the subject matter....not a dig btw.

Well just FYI, they have actively been training for various scenarios, including cross training with other emergency agencies.

The specialist AGS are capable of a response, despite other AGS dept shortcomings. Theres always room for improvement though.

I worry about the medical response to an event, not the security response.

Ibrahim Halawa acquited(mod warning in op-Heed it)

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