High Noon with George Hook.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 19-09-2017 01:50PM

Ray Purchase wrote: »

Newstalk will lose a few listeners in the short term but where will they go? Ronan Collins?!

Ray Purchase wrote: »

Good luck to them. Midday radio is a blasted wilderness. Those listeners who "move through dial" will have to content themselves with vacuous chart music or dry, unadorned news. That or listen to crackly shipping forecasts on the BBC world service.

Podcasts. Both Irish and international.

never_mind wrote: »

I love this. It is actually laughable that anyone thinks there is a leftist mob running around controlling the media. LOL. Who are they, where are they, and how did they directly influence the decision of a private company?

In this case it seems to be Dill, Chris Donoghue and 900 people on Twitter who made enough noise to spook Tesco, which spooked Newstalk Management, who pulled the plug on George. This was not a moral call by Tesco or Newstalk Management, evidenced by the very fact George stayed on the air the week after he said what he said.

There is without a doubt a very vocal far PC left that shout very loudly against anything they deem to see unfit.

Most people are actually centrists.

ballsymchugh · 19-09-2017 01:53PM

never_mind wrote: »

"But there is a point of responsibility. The real issues nowadays and increasingly is the question of the personal responsibility that young girls are taking for their own safety." = she deserved it.

you're putting words he didn't say into his mouth. as stupid as what he DID say, he didn't say that.

never_mind · 19-09-2017 01:53PM

Swanner wrote: »

When did you get to decide what words I should or shouldn't use and who I can or can't offend ?

I didn't - but there is a level of common decency that exists in society. What is stopping me from driving my car into pedestrians? Nothing really, though there are laws that exist to deter me but nothing that can stop me physically doing that right now. It goes back to what we both agreed on - manners and decency - it is not decent to say things like George said and the company is entitled to punish or terminate the person who said it. It is a private company and is allowed to action it. When did you get to decide what a private company should or shouldn't do?

Vunderground · 19-09-2017 01:53PM

There is one word I've not seen in all the posts, the Twitter meltdown and elsewhere - forgiveness.

Just saying...

never_mind · 19-09-2017 01:56PM

ballsymchugh wrote: »

you're putting words he didn't say into his mouth. as stupid as what he DID say, he didn't say that.

http://www.thejournal.ie/george-hook-rape-criticism-3589574-Sep2017/

Ray Purchase · 19-09-2017 02:04PM

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Podcasts. Both Irish and international.

As someone who listens to podcasts on the way to and from work every day to avoid Paul Williams and Ivan Yates, there's not a hope in hell the vast majority of Hook listeners are going to switch off their radios and over to podcasts.

If there was even the slimmest possibility of Hook's core demographic doing that, shouldnt you guys be pitching a Hook podcast where, free from the constraints of the BAI and snowflake station owners, he could rant and rave to his (and your) heart's content?

Calhoun · 19-09-2017 02:08PM

Not a chance people will turn off properly they might if they don't like the general programming but look at the OTB split a number of years back people will still listen if it's good.

Hopefully they go back to a more news driven piece for that slot.

VinLieger · 19-09-2017 02:08PM

never_mind wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/george-hook-rape-criticism-3589574-Sep2017/

That link goes nowhere near supporting your claim that what he was trying to say was "she deserved it"

never_mind · 19-09-2017 02:10PM

VinLieger wrote: »

That link goes nowhere near supporting your claim that what he was trying to say was "she deserved it"

When someone brings personal responsibility into a situation involving a victim of rape then yes, they are saying that they deserved it.

Lt Dan · 19-09-2017 02:17PM

never_mind wrote: »

"But there is a point of responsibility. The real issues nowadays and increasingly is the question of the personal responsibility that young girls are taking for their own safety." = she deserved it.

A few problems here with your post

- We are talking about Newstalk not RTÉ
- We are talking about 2017 not the 1980s
- We are talking about a 'brigade' of fearful 'outraged' people who think a misogynist deserves a job...

An example. A private school has employed a religion teacher. The school has told her to follow the RE syllabus for Catholic Schools. The teacher does just that but says some outlandish things to parents at the parents-teacher night and the school steps in after the teachers give out and fire her. If her comments were out there enough I can see why the teachers would want rid of a teacher in case that the parents begin to think that other members of staff think like that. A member of a company usually follows the cultural ethos of a company and while he is entitled to say whatever he wants no matter how mad, the company is entitled to pull him off the air.

There is not a massive conspiracy of the lovely lefties trying to get rid of old white men from their jobs - political correctness should mean a common level of respect and decency when talking to people (i.e. you don't drop the N word to describe someone of afro-descent, you don't use outdated terms for those with disabilities, you don't offend people with your CHOICE of language and/or terminology - I say 'don't' but I mean 'shouldn't' because there is a mannerly way a person of actual decency should talk which should be second nature to them).

George Hook is not a respectful man. His apology meant he knew what he said wasn't right... what's so hard to understand?

Let us get this straight, George Hook, despite the clear lies, did not blame rape victims and did not say that they deserve to be raped. Your statement is defamatory .

Personal responsibility to avoid foreseeable problems and to try and mitigate against unforeseeable problems, eg being raped , even if drunk, is not blaming someone! A girl could do everything to avoid risk. It could have been sex with her loving boyfriend and in the course of sex, they have a row and she withdraws consent, but he continues. There are also the cases where a stranger creeps into a room with a girl sleeping, he tries it on, she genuinely believing that it is her boyfriend and consent on that basis ...........Cant protect yourself from everything

You lot , because you don't believe in constructive criticism interpret that as blame , and worse, lie claiming that it meant that someone deserves to be raped. What an dangerous little hunt you are.

The only people saying that, are the media who have existing axes to grind. His supporters, including those who have been nothing but critical of the man over the years on this very thread, would not be coming to comment in a mark of support if George Hook made those statements. No statement was made, he asked a question, that invited people to discuss . That is what presenters do. The millisecond he uttered the word "blame" people jumped on him. They even proved that they do not understand the difference between a question or an opinion.

This is your comment:

""But there is a point of responsibility. The real issues nowadays and increasingly is the question of the personal responsibility that young girls are taking for their own safety." = she deserved it."

If you are a wealthy person, or at least can cope with a Circuit Court Judgment, go and make that statement in public. I hope you get taken to the cleaners for such a defamatory comment.

The statement went on

"She was passed around, went the story. And apparently she went to bed with one guy and he goes out and another guy comes in. She doesn’t want to have relations with the second guy but he forces himself upon her. Awful,”

But when you then look deeper into the story you have to ask certain questions. Why does a girl who just meets a fella in a bar go back to a hotel room? She’s only just barely met him. She has no idea of his health conditions, she has no idea who he is, she has no idea of what dangers he might pose.”

But modern day social activity means that she goes back with him. Then is surprised when somebody else comes into the room and rapes her. Should she be raped? Course she shouldn’t. Is she entitled to say no? Absolutely. Is the guy who came in a scumbag? Certainly. Should he go to jail? Of Course. All of those things,” he said."

Perhaps you should retract your defamatory statement .

The statement

“But is there no blame now to the person who puts themselves in danger?” he said.

See that question mark?

“There is personal responsibility because it’s your daughter and it’s my daughter. And what determines the daughter who goes out, gets drunk, passes out and is with strangers in her room and the daughter that goes out, stays halfway sober and comes home, I don’t know. I wish I knew. I wish I knew what the secret of parenting is."

Personal responsibility to mitigate against dangers is not the same as blame for the act and it most certainly is NOT the same as "she deserved it"

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 19-09-2017 02:25PM

Ray Purchase wrote: »

As someone who listens to podcasts on the way to and from work every day to avoid Paul Williams and Ivan Yates, there's not a hope in hell the vast majority of Hook listeners are going to switch off their radios and over to podcasts.

If there was even the slimmest possibility of Hook's core demographic doing that, shouldnt you guys be pitching a Hook podcast where, free from the constraints of the BAI and snowflake station owners, he could rant and rave to his (and your) heart's content?

Why are you equating the station owners with snowflakes?

Denis O Brien strikes me as someone who would have Hook's back in nearly all professional situations. What happened here was a Twitter Mob spooked the sponsors, so George was pulled.
The fact you have made an argument, that points to Denis O Brien as behaving like a 'snowflake' makes it smell like complete and utter horse manure Mr. Ray Purchase.

Podcasts have been growing consistently year on year for the past decade. This trend will continue. So having a small Twitter Mob who can bully a presenter off the air will be less and less of a problem going forward thankfully.

never_mind · 19-09-2017 02:28PM

Lt Dan wrote: »

Personal responsibility to mitigate against dangers is not the same as blame for the act and it most certainly is NOT the same as "she deserved it"

I saw the question mark... but is it not disrespectful to ask if a woman could be blamed for being raped? Whatever the situation? It is an inexcusable comment and no matter which way you paint it I can still see the colour shine through.

But what bothers me more about this entire debate is this cohort of (what I assume are 28-35 angry white men) 'outraged' people coming online and delivering the same lines about snowflakes, the PC brigade, and leftists.

PeterTheNinth · 19-09-2017 02:31PM

"Barbara, Barbara"..

Is it a pre-requisite for RTE that you memorise the names of all the previous callers before calling in. It just comes across as petty and pedantic.. The sort of crap that you would expect from D'Arcy to be honest.

UsBus · 19-09-2017 02:31PM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Listening to Ciara Kelly today. I've always liked when she's on. Is it just me or could anybody else see her doing a Gerry Ryan type show? Or is that type of phone in show old fashioned & dead?

You must be her only fan. When I hear of the continually offended pc brigade, I think of her. And then she's sneaky enough to hop into George's spot...Snake

Tony EH · 19-09-2017 02:34PM

Ray Purchase wrote: »

Ivan Yates pretty strong on Hook's remarks

"I utterly repudiate not only his remarks but his views and they were wholly inappropriate."

Yates has always be a slimy prick though.

I bet he's only saying this because they all know that Hook is gone. If there was a chance of this blowing over and Hook staying, he wouldn't have opened his mouth.

Lt Dan · 19-09-2017 02:40PM

never_mind wrote: »

"But there is a point of responsibility. The real issues nowadays and increasingly is the question of the personal responsibility that young girls are taking for their own safety." = she deserved it.

A few problems here with your post

- We are talking about Newstalk not RTÉ
- We are talking about 2017 not the 1980s
- We are talking about a 'brigade' of fearful 'outraged' people who think a misogynist deserves a job...

An example. A private school has employed a religion teacher. The school has told her to follow the RE syllabus for Catholic Schools. The teacher does just that but says some outlandish things to parents at the parents-teacher night and the school steps in after the teachers give out and fire her. If her comments were out there enough I can see why the teachers would want rid of a teacher in case that the parents begin to think that other members of staff think like that. A member of a company usually follows the cultural ethos of a company and while he is entitled to say whatever he wants no matter how mad, the company is entitled to pull him off the air.

There is not a massive conspiracy of the lovely lefties trying to get rid of old white men from their jobs - political correctness should mean a common level of respect and decency when talking to people (i.e. you don't drop the N word to describe someone of afro-descent, you don't use outdated terms for those with disabilities, you don't offend people with your CHOICE of language and/or terminology - I say 'don't' but I mean 'shouldn't' because there is a mannerly way a person of actual decency should talk which should be second nature to them).

George Hook is not a respectful man. His apology meant he knew what he said wasn't right... what's so hard to understand?

A few problems, I would be more worried about your defamatory remarks , if I were you

As for the rest , I responded to this earlier comment

"I love this. It is actually laughable that anyone thinks there is a leftist mob running around controlling the media. LOL. Who are they, where are they, and how did they directly influence the decision of a private company? You remind me of my racist, paranoid next door neighbour who sits on Facebook all day resharing things about the snowflake generation... It's funny that the snowflake generation is the one that celebrates diversity in other people and isn't as selfish as it seems.."

See that, "leftist mob running around controlling the media"

RTE is part of the media , a very big part.It was an example of when the left ruled the roost, a relatively good example in fact. The whift of lefties was a very long lasting one. Where did Alex White BL come from (the later is from from the anti christ, it should be noted) ? Charlie Bird. Harris presence on RTE didn't leave in the 1980's

AS for Newstalk, just around the time that went National they had a much larger "left" wing /perceived to be left wing group with Senator Norris on a Friday (who was great radio) Eamonn Dunphy swang both ways (More FG though) , David McWilliams was perceived as left wing, not too sure about that . Then Newstalk became known as Fine Gael FM , one of the presenters later became a backroom member of FG (can't remember his name, did the Sunday Business slot)

Tony EH · 19-09-2017 02:41PM

Swanner wrote: »

Indeed.. I used to make an effort not to be any kind of "ist" but **** that.. People will get outraged anyway so might as well just say it as I see it..

I'm not saying all female presenters are poor. Just most of them imo..

kunst nugget wrote: »

Most male presenters are poor as well.

VinLieger wrote: »

Yeah but you dont get called sexist for saying it

So, maybe the most intelligent way to phrase this is "most presenters are poor", without any need to bring someone's genitals into it.

Ray Purchase · 19-09-2017 02:41PM

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Why are you equating the station owners with snowflakes? Denis O Brien strikes me as someone who would have Hook's back in nearly all professional situations. What happened here was a Twitter Mob spooked the sponsors, so George was pulled.
The fact you have made an argument, that points to Denis O Brien as behaving like a 'snowflake' makes it smell like complete and utter horse manure Mr. Ray Purchase.

Podcasts have been growing consistently year on year for the past decade. This trend will continue. So having a small Twitter Mob who can bully a presenter off the air will be less and less of a problem going forward thankfully.

I was producing podcasts for UL in 2004. "Radio will be obsolete in 5 years" they said then...

never_mind · 19-09-2017 02:46PM

Lt Dan wrote: »

AS for Newstalk, just around the time that went National they had a much larger "left" wing /perceived to be left wing group with Senator Norris on a Friday (who was great radio) Eamonn Dunphy swang both ways (More FG though) , David McWilliams was perceived as left wing, not too sure about that . Then Newstalk became known as Fine Gael FM , one of the presenters later became a backroom member of FG (can't remember his name, did the Sunday Business slot)

They can do what they want as a private station.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 19-09-2017 02:48PM

Ray Purchase wrote: »

I was producing podcasts for UL in 2004. "Radio will be obsolete in 5 years" they said then...

Frankly I don't believe you and think that is another post full of horse manure. Internet streaming on mobile devices was not ubiquitous enough in 2004 for anybody with half a brain to make such a bold statement.

Anyway, podcasting is nothing more than non live radio, they are the same medium! They are just delivered to the same end user differently!

never_mind · 19-09-2017 02:52PM

Lt Dan wrote: »

A few problems, I would be more worried about your defamatory remarks , if I were you

As for the rest , I responded to this earlier comment

"I love this. It is actually laughable that anyone thinks there is a leftist mob running around controlling the media. LOL. Who are they, where are they, and how did they directly influence the decision of a private company? You remind me of my racist, paranoid next door neighbour who sits on Facebook all day resharing things about the snowflake generation... It's funny that the snowflake generation is the one that celebrates diversity in other people and isn't as selfish as it seems.."

See that, "leftist mob running around controlling the media"

RTE is part of the media , a very big part.It was an example of when the left ruled the roost, a relatively good example in fact. The whift of lefties was a very long lasting one. Where did Alex White BL come from (the later is from from the anti christ, it should be noted) ? Charlie Bird. Harris presence on RTE didn't leave in the 1980's

AS for Newstalk, just around the time that went National they had a much larger "left" wing /perceived to be left wing group with Senator Norris on a Friday (who was great radio) Eamonn Dunphy swang both ways (More FG though) , David McWilliams was perceived as left wing, not too sure about that . Then Newstalk became known as Fine Gael FM , one of the presenters later became a backroom member of FG (can't remember his name, did the Sunday Business slot)

Also I love how your response to this is be worried of your defamatory remarks... but at the same time you are championing freedom of (hurtful) expression LOL

ballsymchugh · 19-09-2017 02:54PM

never_mind wrote: »

They can do what they want as a private station.

no they can't. they still have guidelines to work by and quotas to fill, such as irish language (splanc) and global village.

Lt Dan · 19-09-2017 02:59PM

never_mind wrote: »

I saw the question mark... but is it not disrespectful to ask if a woman could be blamed for being raped? Whatever the situation? It is an inexcusable comment and no matter which way you paint it I can still see the colour shine through.

But what bothers me more about this entire debate is this cohort of (what I assume are 28-35 angry white men) 'outraged' people coming online and delivering the same lines about snowflakes, the PC brigade, and leftists.

Jesus, you'd try anything, to save face it seems.

You failed to quote the statement in full. In any walk of life, when you seek to claim or interpret what someone said, you best bloody quote them in full, and not take one paragraph out in context. ! That is what you did.

Hook explicitly pointed out that NO WOMAN SHOULD BE RAPED and most certainly made it clear, even to half wits, to at least listened to what he said in full and noted that context, that he does not believe nor was she suggesting that "she deserved it"

You made a defamatory statement, the basis of which has absolutely none, you can not say it was an honest opinion because there is no basis of your negligence to have half quoted him.

" but is it not disrespectful to ask if a woman could be blamed for being raped?"

Massive difference in actually blaming someone or , what you did, accuse him of saying that "she deserved it"

The core of the question was legitimate, and a substantial proportion of his actual listeners completely understood what he meant. The problem was the wording .

We are in massive trouble if investigators or journalists can't ask questions and discuss matters when everything is seen as offensive or hurtful. Worse, talking about trying to mitigate risks does NOT proportion blame.

I don't know folks, what is more dangerous, stupid people or liars?

"which way you paint it I can still see the colour shine through. "

I'd suggest you don a pair of glasses. Your argument has been proven to be nothing but defamatory.

"what I assume are 28-35 angry white men"

If I were you, I'd stop assuming. You have done nothing but that and you made a defamatory statement. Perhaps based your opinion on actual facts next time, you know, facts actually before you. Perhaps a text of the full discussion?

By the way, plenty of woman over in social media land, irish Times and Indo Face book apps, plenty of women, especially over 30s

"'outraged' people coming online and delivering the same lines about snowflakes, the PC brigade, and leftists."

Eh, the outrage is based on lies being put forward. People also smell certain quarters with axes to grind by certain people.

pilly · 19-09-2017 03:01PM

brooke 2 wrote:

One of the women on SO'R, Alison ?, called NT 'BlokesRadio'!

A fair few posters here agree that it's blokes radio and think that's a good thing!

ballsymchugh · 19-09-2017 03:03PM

pilly wrote: »

A fair few posters here agree that it's blokes radio and think that's a good thing!

a few years ago Aoibheann Ni Shuilleabhan filled in for moncreiff. newstalk let her slip through their fingers by not offering her something more permanent then. she was excellent.

never_mind · 19-09-2017 03:04PM

Lt Dan wrote: »

We are in massive trouble if investigators or journalists can't ask questions and discuss matters when everything is seen as offensive or hurtful. Worse, talking about trying to mitigate risks does NOT proportion blame.

This has stuck with me and I am actually going to have to rethink some of my original arguments...

Lt Dan · 19-09-2017 03:04PM

never_mind wrote: »

Also I love how your response to this is be worried of your defamatory remarks... but at the same time you are championing freedom of (hurtful) expression LOL

I am not one bit worried sunny! Just helpful advice.

By all means, keep on talking. Your statements are drenched in ignorance . You are using terms that you simply do not understand and you can not even read statements in full and take care to avoid saying things that are defamatory.

I shall break this down for you in a simple manner, it is evident that you and others need it

1. You have the right to free speech, which means the freedom not to be punished or censored. Others however, have the right to challenge that, and in doing so , express their right to free speech.

There are restrictions such as contracts expressly stating certain clauses eg bring the company into disrepute etc. All fine line for Business' in the world of broadcasting and journalism

2. Free Speech in this country has always been restricted where it undermines the State or public morality

3. You waffle about free speech, well, there is the thing sunny, there is also the right to a good name, which is taken way more seriously in Ireland. Making statements that are not true and which cause or can cause reputation damage are defamatory . Hiding behind a computer on a public forum no longer protects you

Lt Dan · 19-09-2017 03:06PM

never_mind wrote: »

This has stuck with me and I am actually going to have to rethink some of my original arguments...

You can start by acknowledging that you made a statement without any basis.

You stated that George Hook expressed or implied that the girl that he was talking about, and any girl may deserve to be raped.

The facts before you or ought to have been before proves that your statement was defamatory. You have not even bothered to seek to defend or justify what you said. Just ignored it

never_mind · 19-09-2017 03:07PM

Lt Dan wrote: »

You can start by acknowledging that you made a statement without any basis.

You stated that George Hook expressed or implied that the girl that he was talking about, and any girl may deserve to be raped.

The facts before you or ought to have been before proves that your statement was defamatory. You have not even bothered to seek to defend or justify what you said. Just ignored it

Fair enough and I think some of what you have said actually rings true...

The Bishop Basher · 19-09-2017 03:11PM

never_mind wrote: »

Fair enough and I think some of what you have said actually rings true...

Is this an internet first :pac:

Fair play though.. takes a real man to stand up and say he was wrong..

Assuming you are one..

(BTW I don't give a **** about non gender specific bias bollix before anyone starts)

Tony EH wrote: »

So, maybe the most intelligent way to phrase this is "most presenters are poor", without any need to bring someone's genitals into it.

No I was speaking specifically about female presenters.

High Noon with George Hook.

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