Mayo GAA Discussion - Part 3

kilns · 19-09-2017 11:11AM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Just re the GPS nonsense that people are screaming faux outrage at and throwing childish but damning abuse at him for it, how about these outraged poster's thoughts on Cormac Costello sneaking around and picking up ALL of Clarkes kicking tees and throwing them away from Mayo goal area after the Rock free (in fact I heard he cracked one also) so as to prevent him getting it out quick.

Its desperation, it's gamesmanship and at the end of the day I doubt both men give a flying f*ck about the moral judgements being thrown at them with so much at stake

Very true.
Keegan was very wrong, no doubt about it - ok, a kick to win an all Ireland right in front of you, there is desperation there, but he was 100% wrong.

However the Costello thing, I believe, is a concern for the game moving forward. He was very clearly sent on with instructions from the management to carry out unsporting acts. Like he isn't that kind of player. Yet he was intent on wrestling guys, starting a fight, stealing and even smashing kickout tees. He wasn't sent on the field to play football, and that is a dangerous precedent to be setting.

Barrett was comfortably the motm, but they were hardly going over to the mayo hotel to give it to him so fair enough.
POTY Moran

As for talk of retirements - two doing the rounds are Moran and Higgins - two guys who are in the shakeup for poty... Nuff said...

So brushing over the keegan incident and citing the Costello incident is ridiculous. Keegan throw something at a player in the act of taking a free. If that came from a fan there would be calls to ban that person from stadiums for years. I will forgive the green and red tinted glasses for glossing over it but it is a much more serious incident and if not punished severly sets a bad precident

19-09-2017 11:28AM

kilns wrote: »

So brushing over the keegan incident and citing the Costello incident is ridiculous. Keegan throw something at a player in the act of taking a free. If that came from a fan there would be calls to ban that person from stadiums for years. I will forgive the green and red tinted glasses for glossing over it but it is a much more serious incident and if not punished severly sets a bad precident

It would be the equivalent of throwing a hurley, which is a yellow card offense I believe. If it had put Rock off I wouldn't have condemned it.

. The antics of the Dublin forward line on the restart were equally as noteworthy.

PARlance · 19-09-2017 11:34AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The FBD and some of the league needs to be mostly new and U21 players, with a few seniors thrown in for guidance. Very few new players in the past 5 years on the first team.

We've probably had our best crop of players over that time so I don't think it's a massive surprise.

6 changes from the first team from 5 years ago but 3 of them still involved in the panel and probably a 4th if not for injury: Keane, Caff, Barry Moran, Dillon, Conroy, Varley all started vs Donegal.

Fast forward 5 years and it will have to be a very different team though. We could be lucky to have 5 starters from the last day. We probably only have a year or two left with the nucleus of this team.

Shurimgreat · 19-09-2017 11:36AM

I know this has been raised before, but Mayo's profile in the last few years has easily rivalled Dublin's. Mayo are box office on TV as they are nearly always involved in a dramatic game, as well as big games against Dublin, Kerry, etc

Yet Dublin are sponsored by AIG, Mayo by Elverys.

You'd wonder about the difference in sponsorship deals. Elverys a great company, but are they paying on the same scale as AIG?

Surely Mayo could attract a big multinational on the scale of AIG?

Fr Tod Umptious · 19-09-2017 11:48AM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I know this has been raised before, but Mayo's profile in the last few years has easily rivalled Dublin's. Mayo are box office on TV as they are nearly always involved in a dramatic game, as well as big games against Dublin, Kerry, etc

Yet Dublin are sponsored by AIG, Mayo by Elverys.

You'd wonder about the difference in sponsorship deals. Elverys a great company, but are they paying on the same scale as AIG?

Surely Mayo could attract a big multinational on the scale of AIG?

Well not really.

Mayo are box office alright but it's because they have stumbled along more than anything else.

Had they strolled through Connacht like they used to then they would only play at most 6 games, in 2012 they only played 5.

The market for advertising of the Dublin team will always be big because they have by far the biggest population of the country.

Back in the mid '00s even though they were poor they were still filling CP on their own.

MayoAreMagic · 19-09-2017 11:49AM

kilns wrote: »

So brushing over the keegan incident and citing the Costello incident is ridiculous. Keegan throw something at a player in the act of taking a free. If that came from a fan there would be calls to ban that person from stadiums for years. I will forgive the green and red tinted glasses for glossing over it but it is a much more serious incident and if not punished severly sets a bad precident

Im not brushing over it, but it has been visited at length already. I said he was 100% wrong, what more can I say? 120%? I don't agree however that it is like someone throwing a coin from the stand as you are insinuating.

What would your view be on Costello's behaviour? You forgot to address it.

PARlance · 19-09-2017 11:50AM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I know this has been raised before, but Mayo's profile in the last few years has easily rivalled Dublin's. Mayo are box office on TV as they are nearly always involved in a dramatic game, as well as big games against Dublin, Kerry, etc

Yet Dublin are sponsored by AIG, Mayo by Elverys.

You'd wonder about the difference in sponsorship deals. Elverys a great company, but are they paying on the same scale as AIG?

Surely Mayo could attract a big multinational on the scale of AIG?

A small fraction of it I would say but Elverys are not AIG in terms of Companies and Mayo are not Dublin in terms of Marketing. An advert in the Mayo News will cost a fraction of one in The Herald... I know we get National exposure but the fan base (readers) are also a fraction. Winning is also key.

We don't have a Commerical Manager which is ridiculous but at the same time, Elverys were around in the bad times and I think it's great to have them as Sponsors.

Bunny Colvin · 19-09-2017 11:55AM

What do you think lads in terms of players coming through? The team will need to be freshened up, maybe not a huge amount next year but definitely the year after that. You'd like to see us start doing that in next year's league.

Shurimgreat · 19-09-2017 11:56AM

PARlance wrote: »

Elverys were around in the bad times and I think it's great to have them as Sponsors.

I know they were around in the bad times, but they have got more than their monies worth from the good times.

Is there an open bidding process for the sponsorship contract? Does it go to the highest bidder?

Now is the time to maximise revenue, maybe not to fund the current team, but certainly to fund infrastructure and coaches for the next generation.

I certainly agree we are sorely lacking in a commercial manager.

Put the shirt sponsorship up for open bidding at least. We could be surprised at the amount some companies are prepared to pay.

Its not about how many supporters we have. 1.3 million watched the AI final, and many more overseas. That is a huge audience for any company trying to get their brand out there.

At this stage we need to explore all avenues for furthering Mayo football.

Audioslaven · 19-09-2017 11:58AM

Robeman wrote: »

I cannot help but admire the professionalism of Dublin in recent years.

4 All irelands in the past 5 years as well as 4 leagues. leinster titles are hardly worth mentioning.

It all starts with the County Board. They are professional in their approach whether it be in setting up good underage structures or even in their development of hurling. Yes they have the advantage of a large population but so do Cork. Yes they are well financed both by the GAA and by commercial sponsors but it is their professionalism that ensures these monies arrive and are well spent.

They generally select good managers but not all of them are successful. They generally give the managers they appoint the time to develop a panel of players capable of winning All Ireland. Not all are successful bur rarely do they not see out their term.

They found a gem in Jim Galvin as their success shows this past few years. Apart from what we see on the football pitch one also has to admire the off field management. It cannot be easy managing a panel where very recent stars, all stars, footballers of the year, multiple all ireland winners are used mostly as bench warmers. Yet one never hears any voices of complaint or reads about internal dissent. The players only appear on the sports pages and never on the front or back pages.

It was interesting listening to all the Dublin player interviews afterwards. They all spoke of how close they were as a group which I took to mean players and backroom staff combined. The results speak for themselves. In times past I like many other culchies would always dismiss Dublin as a bunch of gurriers. This squad comes accross as a group of gentlemen but one that retains sufficient gurrierism on the field to win All Irelands.

We need to appreciate this team as we may not see their like for the next 30 years. Only the kerry team of late 70's early 80's exceeds their quality in the past 50 years.

The other item that that has occupied my mind this past few days in the comment by Vinny Murphy (I think) that the Mayo supporters do not help their team when they give unquestioning support to failure.

It brings to mind Paudi O Shea calling the Kerry supporters animals when he was under pressure as a result of not delivering sufficient All Irelands. Kerry supporters expect to win All Irelands every years and the team delivers about 1 year in 3. They are demanding supporters and this helps bring success.

Here in Mayo as supporters we make no such demands of our team. We are satisfied with "they did their best" "they gave it everything". A big crown will flock to Castlebar every time to welcome back losers and tell them how great they are. If one says anything negative about our heroes it is frowned upon or attacked.

I am also thinking of the contrasting thoughts of two new intercounty panel members next January, one joining Dublin the other joining Mayo. The Dublin player will look around the dressing room and be inspired when he looks around the dressing room and see 5 all ireland medals either side of him and lots of fours around the room. Even the guys who joined previous january have one each. He will dream of winning multiple medals.

Contrast that with the new Mayo panel member. he will look around and only see serial losers some going back 13 years. He will not be inspired. His dream will be just to make an All Ireland final.

The new management whoever they are needs to clear out all the serial losers and start afresh with a panel none of whom has more than (probably not being ruthless enough) two lost All Irelands. We need to give the next generation a chance.

Look you are acting the idiot. Did you not witness the drive and commitment the last day? Did you not witness the devastation on the players and management after the game was over? They care, supporters care and anyone with Mayo blood cares.

The drive and commitment was there by everyone but mistakes cost us. It happens in sport at the highest level !!

Shurimgreat · 19-09-2017 12:18PM

Audioslaven wrote: »

Look you are acting the idiot. Did you not witness the drive and commitment the last day? Did you not witness the devastation on the players and management after the game was over? They care, supporters care and anyone with Mayo blood cares.

The drive and commitment was there by everyone but mistakes cost us. It happens in sport at the highest level !!

Agreed. Unlike in other years or eras, Sunday proved we are not actually that far off an AI. A bit of composure and a bit of discipline and there is no doubt we would have won.
This team can win an AI.
Dublin proved they are beatable and no great shakes if you get in their faces which Mayo always does.
Its a pity other counties wouldn't follow suit.
The likes of Eoghan O'Gara dominate in the Leinster Championship yet are next to useless when facing a proper team.

PARlance · 19-09-2017 12:29PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I know they were around in the bad times, but they have got more than their monies worth from the good times.

Is there an open bidding process for the sponsorship contract? Does it go to the highest bidder?

Now is the time to maximise revenue, maybe not to fund the current team, but certainly to fund infrastructure and coaches for the next generation.

I certainly agree we are sorely lacking in a commercial manager.

Put the shirt sponsorship up for open bidding at least. We could be surprised at the amount some companies are prepared to pay.

Its not about how many supporters we have. 1.3 million watched the AI final, and many more overseas. That is a huge audience for any company trying to get their brand out there.

At this stage we need to explore all avenues for furthering Mayo football.

I don't know any of the details of the deal but I've worked in Sponsorship before and it's a very hard thing to quantify or measure. There can be an altruistic element to a lot of deals at times. It doesn't always make pure financial sense for the Company. I'm sure that even the most ardent Mayo supporters might pop into Lifestyle sports on ocassion. What's the true value of 1.3million people seeing it on the Mayo jersey. Dubs might even be put off the brand due to it's association with us.

I would favour a long term relationship over making a quick buck any day. Elverys has been "supporting" Mayo for some time. They'll probably be around in the bad times. If you throw it out to a highest bidder every few years, you might make slightly more in the short term but you'll burn bridges in the medium to long term.

I'm assuming that they're not completely incompetent in the CB and are getting a fair sum from Elverys.

Robeman · 19-09-2017 12:38PM

Audioslaven wrote: »

Look you are acting the idiot. Did you not witness the drive and commitment the last day? Did you not witness the devastation on the players and management after the game was over? They care, supporters care and anyone with Mayo blood cares.

The drive and commitment was there by everyone but mistakes cost us. It happens in sport at the highest level !!

All I take from Sunday is that they lost, they lost last year and have lost either semi or final past 7 years. In that period they did not even win the league. 14 attempts to win national titles all lost.

Carlow this year showed plenty of drive and committment against Dublin they also lost.

I did witness the devestation of the players and management after game over but after past 7 years my heart where this bunch of players are concerned has turned to stone. I was not devastated as I know from repeated annual lessons that this group talented, committed, driven etc as they undoubtly are, will never be winners (unless coming 2nd or finishing in the top 4 is seen as winning).

All mayo supporters care, I care and my blood is 100% unadulterated Mayo.

I will care again next year when for the eight year this bunch of players fail to win a national title because we as a County glorify failure.

We should be screaming at this team for failing us once again but instead we tell them they are wonderful and want them back to fail again next year.

It is only because I care that I want a more capable county board, selecting a good manager capable of moulding a new generation of Mayo footballers into a squad capable of winning.

I am fed up of failure particularly when it is 100% of our own making.

Look at lots of other counties like ourselves who have managed to get over the line this past 66 years when we have not. Galway, Donegal, Tyrone, Armagh, Meath, Down, Offaly. What did they have that we do not possess ?

Shurimgreat · 19-09-2017 12:53PM

Robeman wrote: »

All I take from Sunday is that they lost, they lost last year and have lost either semi or final past 7 years. In that period they did not even win the league. 14 attempts to win national titles all lost.

Carlow this year showed plenty of drive and committment against Dublin they also lost.

I did witness the devestation of the players and management after game over but after past 7 years my heart where this bunch of players are concerned has turned to stone. I was not devastated as I know from repeated annual lessons that this group talented, committed, driven etc as they undoubtly are, will never be winners (unless coming 2nd or finishing in the top 4 is seen as winning).

All mayo supporters care, I care and my blood is 100% unadulterated Mayo.

I will care again next year when for the eight year this bunch of players fail to win a national title because we as a County glorify failure.

We should be screaming at this team for failing us once again but instead we tell them they are wonderful and want them back to fail again next year.

It is only because I care that I want a more capable county board, selecting a good manager capable of moulding a new generation of Mayo footballers into a squad capable of winning.

I am fed up of failure particularly when it is 100% of our own making.

Look at lots of other counties like ourselves who have managed to get over the line this past 66 years when we have not. Galway, Donegal, Tyrone, Armagh, Meath, Down, Offaly. What did they have that we do not possess ?

Frustration in understandable.

But you have to look at the obstacles put in the way of this team compared to others. Same core of players, very difficult logistics, smallish pool to pick from.

My view is they are edging towards an AI win. Lessons hopefully will be learned from this year, the big lessons being composure and discipline.

Dublin are noted for winding the opposition up so you just learn to accept and ignore it. You react, they win, simple as.

Cool heads needed next year.

All things considered, Mayo did brilliantly this year.

If it takes 1, 5 or 10 more years to win Sam so be it.

Loafing Oaf · 19-09-2017 01:05PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Agreed. Unlike in other years or eras, Sunday proved we are not actually that far off an AI. A bit of composure and a bit of discipline and there is no doubt we would have won.
This team can win an AI.
Dublin proved they are beatable and no great shakes if you get in their faces which Mayo always does.

Does most of this not apply to every year since 2013?

To me the Cillian off the post incident encapsulates the fate of the current Mayo team at the business end of the championship: rank bad luck at the worst possible moment combined with a marginal falling short on the part of the players by failing to anticipate the rebound...

Yes this team can win an AI but they have at most two more cracks at it...

Audioslaven · 19-09-2017 01:23PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Agreed. Unlike in other years or eras, Sunday proved we are not actually that far off an AI. A bit of composure and a bit of discipline and there is no doubt we would have won.
This team can win an AI.
Dublin proved they are beatable and no great shakes if you get in their faces which Mayo always does.
Its a pity other counties wouldn't follow suit.
The likes of Eoghan O'Gara dominate in the Leinster Championship yet are next to useless when facing a proper team.

I fully believed they would win on Sunday. For me this is a hard defeat, its like a bereavement.

I would worry now for the future for some of these guys because they are a little bit older and the manner of the defeat. I would say we may have taken a few steps back with the defeat. I hope not but that's what I think. Next year is like starting off again and there are a lot of tricky moments along the way, so getting back to a final is not a certainty and not easy.

Loafing Oaf · 19-09-2017 01:28PM

Audioslaven wrote: »

so getting back to a final is not a certainty and not easy.

Although the super 8 format should suit them, provided they have their act together in Connacht.

BonnieSituation · 19-09-2017 01:28PM

I'm finally out of my slumber. It was an epic battle and definitely one for the ages (despite Joe). I thought we had blown it.

Commiserations to ye all. 2018 is not far away...

Fr Tod Umptious · 19-09-2017 01:30PM

Audioslaven wrote: »

I fully believed they would win on Sunday. For me this is a hard defeat, its like a bereavement.

I would worry now for the future for some of these guys because they are a little bit older and the manner of the defeat. I would say we may have taken a few steps back with the defeat. I hope not but that's what I think. Next year is like starting off again and there are a lot of tricky moments along the way, so getting back to a final is not a certainty and not easy.

Way to early to suggest that.

Many said the same last year and we're saying in right up to the replay v Kerry.

Let's see what the winter and spring brings

Fr Tod Umptious · 19-09-2017 01:33PM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Does most of this not apply to every year since 2013?

To me the Cillian off the post incident encapsulates the fate of the current Mayo team at the business end of the championship: rank bad luck at the worst possible moment combined with a marginal falling short on the part of the players by failing to anticipate the rebound...

Yes this team can win an AI but they have at most two more cracks at it...

Exactly, we have been "not far off for years now"

Gone are the days of Mayo being blown out.

Since 2011 Mayo have only lost two games heavely.
The 2011 SF v Kerry and the 2015 SF replay v Dublin.

Everything else has been close.

This year I think they found an extra tiny percentage and were better than last year, hopefully they can do the same next year.

CatInABox · 19-09-2017 01:46PM

Well lads, that was intense. Not sure if the better team won, but perhaps the smarter team won is a more accurate description. At several occasions, I thought we'd lost it, most notably when Small lined up a guy and smashed him all wrong. Knew it was a yellow the second it happened, and was very, very deflated. They're would be no way in hell Dublin would hold out for the rest of the game (despite what some pundits are saying about it now). Then Vaughn decided to clothesline Small, something which I'll never ever understand. Even today, I'm equal parts bemused and confused by it.

The Mayo support are a credit to your county, your country and the GAA. Honestly don't know how you summon the energy and enthusiasm each year, my heart literally wouldn't be able to handle it.

Of course, commiserations, or whatever this is, probably isn't going to help you at all, so maybe I'll just end with this:

See you next year?

19-09-2017 01:54PM

Can anybody tell me what David Drakes purpose is on the team ? He comes on in a forwards position but never scores. He was stationary like a spectator for the rebound from Cillians free.

If we are going to take the likes of Mcloughlin, Andy, Dotherty off then we need to have replacements that can actually score.

jr86 · 19-09-2017 02:04PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Exactly, we have been "not far off for years now"

Gone are the days of Mayo being blown out.

Since 2011 Mayo have only lost two games heavely.
The 2011 SF v Kerry and the 2015 SF replay v Dublin.

Everything else has been close.

This year I think they found an extra tiny percentage and were better than last year, hopefully they can do the same next year.

Mayo were 4 up in the second half of the 2015 replay though and missed a great chance to go 5 clear. Was a bit of a flattering result for dublin in the end

The 2013 game was a bit of a one point hammering in a way.

Last year and this year have been truly close though as you say. It's on the right track but it's next to impossible to see dublin decline in any way next year and as good as mayo were from August onwards, could have been sent packing 3 times in July.

It'll need one hell of a hurrah again

Pure tashte · 19-09-2017 02:04PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Can anybody tell me what David Drakes purpose is on the team ? He comes on in a forwards position but never scores. He was stationary like a spectator for the rebound from Cillians free.

If we are going to take the likes of Mcloughlin, Andy, Dotherty off then we need to have replacements that can actually score.

It was peculiar that Shane Nally wasn't used in this role in the semis and final, especially after getting 2 scores in the Roscommon replay.

19-09-2017 02:05PM

Pure tashte wrote: »

It was peculiar that Shane Nally wasn't used in this role in the semis and final, especially after getting 2 scores in the Roscommon replay.

Agreed, he can actually take a score. And in a game that is level in injury time you need to have someone that can score.

Buer · 19-09-2017 02:14PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

The likes of Eoghan O'Gara dominate in the Leinster Championship yet are next to useless when facing a proper team.

The likes of O'Gara hasn't started a Leinster Championship game since 2014 when he started one game. He's not in the mix for a starting spot aside from an ill judged tactical call at the weekend which was rectified.

jr86 · 19-09-2017 02:19PM

Buer wrote: »

The likes of O'Gara hasn't started a Leinster Championship game since 2014 when he started one game. He's not in the mix for a starting spot aside from an ill judged tactical call at the weekend which was rectified.

Yeah, he won't be near the team next year. Guys like mchugh, carthy and schutte will probably knock on the door harder and lowndes and Scully will likely improve too.

Scary that they will probably even improve overall next year.

PARlance · 19-09-2017 02:37PM

CatInABox wrote: »

Well lads, that was intense. Not sure if the better team won, but perhaps the smarter team won is a more accurate description. At several occasions, I thought we'd lost it, most notably when Small lined up a guy and smashed him all wrong. Knew it was a yellow the second it happened, and was very, very deflated. They're would be no way in hell Dublin would hold out for the rest of the game (despite what some pundits are saying about it now). Then Vaughn decided to clothesline Small, something which I'll never ever understand. Even today, I'm equal parts bemused and confused by it.

The Mayo support are a credit to your county, your country and the GAA. Honestly don't know how you summon the energy and enthusiasm each year, my heart literally wouldn't be able to handle it.

Of course, commiserations, or whatever this is, probably isn't going to help you at all, so maybe I'll just end with this:

See you next year?

There's only one thing I would ask of the Dubs. Could you have a word with Jim and his merry men. Yet again I've heard the "we didn't perform in a final" line from them... not a whole pile bugs me, but that certainly does.

Kilkenny had 66 possessions against Tyrone. He had 8 against us. He wasn't allowed perform to the best of his ability. It's a small thing and there was plenty of mutual appreciation going around but I do think that line is a kick in the teeth.

Faugheen · 19-09-2017 02:52PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Dublin are noted for winding the opposition up so you just learn to accept and ignore it.

Eh...

CatInABox · 19-09-2017 03:18PM

PARlance wrote: »

There's only one thing I would ask of the Dubs. Could you have a word with Jim and his merry men. Yet again I've heard the "we didn't perform in a final" line from them... not a whole pile bugs me, but that certainly does.

Kilkenny had 66 possessions against Tyrone. He had 8 against us. He wasn't allowed perform to the best of his ability. It's a small thing and there was plenty of mutual appreciation going around but I do think that line is a kick in the teeth.

Ah yeah, that'll be a bit of a kicker alright, I wouldn't like that either.

I was annoyed all year long when people said that Dublin hadn't been tested, when in fact they hadn't allowed themselves to be put in position that you could call "being tested". Same thing here, Dublin weren't allowed play, Keegan is a monster player.

Mayo GAA Discussion - Part 3

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