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Isn't multiculturalism great...

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  • #272
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    fryup wrote: »
    no need to poo poo on the OP's thread,

    the OP was making a valid observation on how mush irish society has changed for the better thanks in no small part to multiculturalism

    now i don't know what age you are but those of us of a certain generation (40+ ) can really appreciate how much ireland has changed from the dark negative dismal kip it use to be and multiculturalism has played a significant part in that..as well as the celtic tiger, and i applaud it

    The great leap forward this country made was in the 1990's and with the exception of people from the UK there was barely any non Irish people living here back then.

    Multiculturalism hasn't played a massive role in this country moving forward it's just happened because the country moved forward and Ireland has become a more attractive place for inward migration.


  • #273
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    I think a lot of posters seem to think multi-ethnic = multiculturalism, when this is not the case.
    FTA69 wrote: »
    They're not a minority. At all. In some parts of the major cities you will find areas where people are predominantly migrants or the children of migrants - that's not the same as "being a minority in your own country". I'm not even saying that there aren't any social costs to migration, there often are, but this lark of 'multiculturalism has failed' is often trotted out as some sort of commonsense statement of fact when the reality is that if it didn't broadly work people would be killing each other every two minutes in places like London, in fact most people generally get on and interact with each other multiple times daily.
    When people can grow up and exist in a separate culture and then go on to kill their neighbours, multiculturalism has failed.
    When grooming gangs from mainly one culture target young girls from another to rape on masse, multiculturalism has failed.
    And why is "people would be killing each other every two minutes in places like London" your definition of failure?
    fryup wrote: »
    no need to poo poo on the OP's thread,

    the OP was making a valid observation on how mush irish society has changed for the better thanks in no small part to multiculturalism

    now i don't know what age you are but those of us of a certain generation (40+ ) can really appreciate how much ireland has changed from the dark negative dismal kip it use to be and multiculturalism has played a significant part in that..as well as the celtic tiger, and i applaud it
    Can you demonstrate how multiculturalism has played a significant part in societal change in this country?


  • #274
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    This was a very nice post :). Was 100% expecting another negative doom and gloom immigration thread


  • #275
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,632 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    marcus001 wrote: »
    Nah, there were too many Irish people around. Ireland is now better because you meet fewer and fewer Irish people in daily life.

    There are more Irish people every year. The population is growing.

    We just have an evolving definition of irishness.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #276
    YourSuperior
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭YourSuperior


    fryup wrote: »
    you obviously didn't grow up in the midlands

    It's off the beaten track for tourists. I grew up in Westmeath during the 90's, early 00's. Not that long ago. It's quiet, that's for sure. The lakes are nice though.


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  • #277
    fryup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    Can you demonstrate how multiculturalism has played a significant part in societal change in this country?

    it has made us more open to other cultures, races and religions and therefore made us us more broadminded and accepting

    its made us come out of our insular bubble that we use to reseide in and discover not everyone is white & catholic in this world


  • #278
    Rezident
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,823 ✭✭✭Rezident


    Yes it was great to see all the Nigerian and Irish and Polish and Ghanaian kids playing football this morning wearing green football jerseys and it bodes well for the Irish football team in the next decade or two, we could certainly do with new players coming through.

    It's great that so many Africans and Romanians and Asians and Polish integrate into Irish society. Makes it all the more unusual that Islamists do not integrate into other societies, makes me wonder what they're planning to do to our societies. I'm afraid it is only a matter of time:

    http://ftp.iza.org/dp3006.pdf


  • #279
    Benjamin Buttons
    Closed Accounts Posts: 232 ✭✭Benjamin Buttons


    Widdershins wrote: »
    Does it end up in court in Erdogan's Islamic Turkey? No. It doesn't. It's far worse than refusing to cut their hair in Turkey, as it is in Islamic places generally. This is common knowledge.
    If Conor74 wants multiculturalism to encompass Turkish Muslims maybe he should familiarise himself with the prevailing culture of Turkey as it is today for a better idea of what is predominant there. He's not talking about individuals here but of cultures. Lollipops for children are almost customary in barbershops here and fair play to his barber for picking up the custom.

    My point is homophobia isn't confined to adherents of Islam.

    Conor74 had a lovely day, don't be such a spoilsport.


  • #280
    Will I Am Not
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭Will I Am Not


    fryup wrote: »
    no need to poo poo on the OP's thread,

    the OP was making a valid observation on how mush irish society has changed for the better thanks in no small part to multiculturalism

    now i don't know what age you are but those of us of a certain generation (40+ ) can really appreciate how much ireland has changed from the dark negative dismal kip it use to be and multiculturalism has played a significant part in that..as well as the celtic tiger, and i applaud it

    What part exactly has multiculturalism played in that?
    Ireland has become more Western and Americanised than anything else.
    What positive marks has immigration, particularly different cultures like African and Middle Eastern, left on this country?


  • #281
    fryup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    ^^^^^^^^^^^

    i've already replied to that, post #285


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  • #282
    yenom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 659 ✭✭✭yenom


    You come here, work and get on with your life, nobody will have an issue with you. If you come here and try change something then people won't like you. It's almost always the former in Ireland.


  • #283
    fryup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    ^^^^^^^^^^^

    don't get ya?


  • #284
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,004 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Deleted User wrote: »
    ...today I brought my daughter to the playground to meet Slovakian friends with their kids. Also met my cousin and his African partner and their little daughter. After that, I went to my Turkish Muslim barber and to her delight he produced a lollipop.

    And I thought, she'll grow up experiencing diversity and cultures that I could only dream of when I was a child in white Catholic Ireland in the late '70s and '80s. And it felt good.
    Benjamin Buttons wrote: »
    My point is homophobia isn't confined to adherents of Islam.

    Conor74 had a lovely day, don't be such a spoilsport.

    Perhaps,however the structure of Conor74's OP,appears to suggest it was posted with somewhat more of a specific intent than merely announcing his Had a Nice Day experience to the rest of the World ?
    Isn't multiculturalism great...

    ...today I brought my daughter to the playground to meet Slovakian friends with their kids. Also met my cousin and his African partner and their little daughter. After that, I went to my Turkish Muslim barber and to her delight he produced a lollipop.

    And I thought, she'll grow up experiencing diversity and cultures that I could only dream of when I was a child in white Catholic Ireland in the late '70s and '80s. And it felt good.

    I laud Conor74's thoroughness in vetting his friends,accquaintences and service providers,as it ensures that,for him,he will have many more such "Feel Good" experiences,without having them corrupted by the Irish lower orders,with their mind numbing narrow focus on the Real World,football,beer & crisps and the likes.

    However,to an initial read,it appears that Conor74 goes to some pains to exclude "native"Irish folks from his Nice Day,or at least,to only include them as a negatively connotated White Catholic Irish postscript.

    Why on earth bother with the "Isn't multiculturalism great" header if his main focus is on his young daughter's enjoyment?

    How,for example will Conor74 react if his young daughter fails to embrace her parent(s) imposed stereopypical preferences on her,and instead opts for building & maintaining friendships from within a White South Kerry Irish Catholic background ?

    Why focus on one's own White,South Kerry Catholic Irish background,as if the child Conor74 was battling it's system from his earliest days ?

    Ireland,and the World in the 1970's & 80's did'nt have instant communication,it's populations were,in the main self contained and distributed accoring to norms dating back to pre biblical times.

    No Internet or Mobile Phones,nor an appreciation of them,unless Conor74 is now saying that he was being denied access to them by his White South Kerry,Irish Catholic oppressors in their quest to stifle his dreams ?

    As other posters point out,few irish chizzlers in the 1970's & 80's were dreaming of the delights of Turkey (apart from that manufactured by Fry's) or diversity in anything.

    Maybe the youthful Conor74 was indeed a child prodigy,who distributed leaflets outside Mass of a Sunday or refused to join the Scouts...or maybe young Conor74 was...normal...just like the rest of us,something which he now regrets in the fullness of retrospection and mature reflection ?

    I too have had my (fast disappearing) hair cut by a Turkish barber,however I failed to enquire as to his religious beliefs,and in so doing,lost my opportunity to post a "Felt good" experience. (Actually the Turk was waay overpriced and no better than my usual barbers,who are an exotic mixture of Bangladeshi and Pakistani...still don't know their religion though...should I ask them next visit ?)

    The more one reads Conor74's OP,the more one can appreciate it being based on a premise that may indeed reveal a tad more fixation on Race,Religion and Ethnicity than might be considered healthy in a modern,liberal multi whetever State...but that's the danger of these things....Just as Bear Baiting is grand,as long as the Bear does'nt manage to slip it's restraints :eek:

    Meanwhile,Life's Good...even in "Ordinary" Ireland ;)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #285
    AnGaelach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭AnGaelach


    Deleted User wrote: »
    ...today I brought my daughter to the playground to meet Slovakian friends with their kids. Also met my cousin and his African partner and their little daughter. After that, I went to my Turkish Muslim barber and to her delight he produced a lollipop.

    And I thought, she'll grow up experiencing diversity and cultures that I could only dream of when I was a child in white Catholic Ireland in the late '70s and '80s. And it felt good.

    Well it's great that you've enjoyed your weekly exposure to immigrants, I look forward to your next blog post!


  • #286
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    99nsr125 wrote: »
    Irish people are not pleasant
    Never have been
    Think of a classic Irish stereotype
    It's a stereotype for a reason

    You do realise that's a very discriminatory remark?


  • #287
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Benjamin Buttons wrote: »
    My point is homophobia isn't confined to adherents of Islam.

    Conor74 had a lovely day, don't be such a spoilsport.

    Nobody said it is. I'm a bisexual woman who's had disgusted stares from other women of Irish nationality when my girlfriend kissed me. No need to state the obvious.

    Not a chance she'd have kissed me in Iran though.


  • #288
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Isn't multiculturalism great?

    Hmm.

    Why are threads about multiculturalism always phrased in absolute terms?

    Multiculturalism is neither inherently good, nor bad.

    At best, it can be described as relative.

    So, exposure to the "nice" aspects of a culture can be great. Exposure to the less pleasant aspects - not so much. There are pleasant, and unpleasant aspects to pretty much any culture, so to speak of any combination of cultures as being all good is clearly ludicrous - yet it's chanted almost like a mantra by progressive types.

    Add the fact that within any culture, there is a diverse range of people.
    Some of those people can be really nice, others can be total scumbags. Yet they're all from the same culture....

    Instead of the usual black or white attitudes towards multiculturalism, where any criticism of an aspect of a culture is automatically deemed racist, would it not make more sense to discuss the facts?

    For example. Repression of women/LGBT/FGM in certain societies is not a good thing. Should safeguards be put in place - and enforced - in Irish society to ensure societal norms are adhered to?

    This constant multiculturalism is all good/bad is becoming mind-numbingly predictable.


  • #289
    Wailin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,445 ✭✭✭Wailin


    WinnyThePoo wrote: »
    Who shat in your cornflakes?

    So you genuinely believe Conor74 was sharing his "wonderful day" to make us all feel happy and snug? In After Hours mind you...with the current trend of threads After Hours is now riddled with...:pac:

    No one shat in my cornflakes lad ;)


  • #290
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Perhaps,however the structure of Conor74's OP,appears to suggest it was posted with somewhat more of a specific intent than merely announcing his Had a Nice Day experience to the rest of the World ?

    I laud Conor74's thoroughness in vetting his friends,accquaintences and service providers,as it ensures that,for him,he will have many more such "Feel Good" experiences,without having them corrupted by the Irish lower orders,with their mind numbing narrow focus on the Real World,football,beer & crisps and the likes.

    However,to an initial read,it appears that Conor74 goes to some pains to exclude "native"Irish folks from his Nice Day,or at least,to only include them as a negatively connotated White Catholic Irish postscript.

    Why on earth bother with the "Isn't multiculturalism great" header if his main focus is on his young daughter's enjoyment?

    How,for example will Conor74 react if his young daughter fails to embrace her parent(s) imposed stereopypical preferences on her,and instead opts for building & maintaining friendships from within a White South Kerry Irish Catholic background ?

    Why focus on one's own White,South Kerry Catholic Irish background,as if the child Conor74 was battling it's system from his earliest days ?

    Ireland,and the World in the 1970's & 80's did'nt have instant communication,it's populations were,in the main self contained and distributed accoring to norms dating back to pre biblical times.

    No Internet or Mobile Phones,nor an appreciation of them,unless Conor74 is now saying that he was being denied access to them by his White South Kerry,Irish Catholic oppressors in their quest to stifle his dreams ?

    As other posters point out,few irish chizzlers in the 1970's & 80's were dreaming of the delights of Turkey (apart from that manufactured by Fry's) or diversity in anything.

    Maybe the youthful Conor74 was indeed a child prodigy,who distributed leaflets outside Mass of a Sunday or refused to join the Scouts...or maybe young Conor74 was...normal...just like the rest of us,something which he now regrets in the fullness of retrospection and mature reflection ?

    I too have had my (fast disappearing) hair cut by a Turkish barber,however I failed to enquire as to his religious beliefs,and in so doing,lost my opportunity to post a "Felt good" experience. (Actually the Turk was waay overpriced and no better than my usual barbers,who are an exotic mixture of Bangladeshi and Pakistani...still don't know their religion though...should I ask them next visit ?)

    The more one reads Conor74's OP,the more one can appreciate it being based on a premise that may indeed reveal a tad more fixation on Race,Religion and Ethnicity than might be considered healthy in a modern,liberal multi whetever State...but that's the danger of these things....Just as Bear Baiting is grand,as long as the Bear does'nt manage to slip it's restraints :eek:

    Meanwhile,Life's Good...even in "Ordinary" Ireland ;)

    Um. While I'm a bit flattered that you've put so much effort into an analysis of me, I should point out that there are a few big flaws. You seem to suggest that my issue was with white Irish Catholics. When, as I assume most will understand - but I'm happy to spell it out too - the issue was with the fact that the society I grew up in was exclusively so. And it's not as if I was saying it was awful. Far from it, I had a great childhood amongst white Irish Catholics. But I think my daughter will have an even better one, because people from other backgrounds and religions have migrated here.


  • #291
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    fryup wrote: »
    it has made us more open to other cultures, races and religions and therefore made us us more broadminded and accepting

    its made us come out of our insular bubble that we use to reseide in and discover not everyone is white & catholic in this world
    You seem to be confusing immigration with multiculturalism.
    Multiculturalism is different cultures living side by side and granted the same level of esteem.
    Like travellers in this country or Muslim migrants from the far east in the UK.
    This has created less tolerance and acceptance of other cultures.
    On the other hand integration and assimilation seem to yield much better results and a greater acceptance amongst the pre-existing populace.
    Also I don't think many people ever thought that world was all "white & catholic".
    And as The Fake Sheikh said I think exposure to the media and culture of other English speaking countries as had the biggest effect on us.


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  • #292
    Benjamin Buttons
    Closed Accounts Posts: 232 ✭✭Benjamin Buttons


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Perhaps,however...

    ........Just as Bear Baiting is grand,as long as the Bear does'nt manage to slip it's restraints :eek:

    Meanwhile,Life's Good...even in "Ordinary" Ireland ;)

    Indeed life is good in ''Ordinary'' Ireland, from South Kerry to South Richmond Street, neither one more Irish than the other!


  • #293
    The Highwayman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,227 ✭✭✭The Highwayman


    Deleted User wrote: »
    ...today I brought my daughter to the playground to meet Slovakian friends with their kids. Also met my cousin and his African partner and their little daughter. After that, I went to my Turkish Muslim barber and to her delight he produced a lollipop.

    And I thought, she'll grow up experiencing diversity and cultures that I could only dream of when I was a child in white Catholic Ireland in the late '70s and '80s. And it felt good.


    You showed nothing positive about diversity at all here. You met some people shocker. Big deal, in fact all I understood is some people are in this country who should not be and they have taken Irish people's jobs.


  • #294
    Donal55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donal55


    fryup wrote: »
    it has made us more open to other cultures, races and religions and therefore made us us more broadminded and accepting

    its made us come out of our insular bubble that we use to reseide in and discover not everyone is white & catholic in this world

    Growing up in 60s and 70s Ireland without mobiles, internet, etc, I and many thousand others were well aware that 'not everyone is white & catholic in this world'.

    Would you remember: 'A penny for the black babies'?


  • #295
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    Wailin wrote: »
    So you genuinely believe Conor74 was sharing his "wonderful day" to make us all feel happy and snug? In After Hours mind you...with the current trend of threads After Hours is now riddled with...:pac:

    No one shat in my cornflakes lad ;)

    It was nice post and brought out the usual inane dribbling suspects.


  • #296
    Will I Am Not
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭Will I Am Not


    WinnyThePoo wrote: »
    It was nice post and brought out the usual inane dribbling suspects.

    And in turn brought out the usual inane dribbling suspects to counter.


  • #297
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    The Fake Sheikh wrote: »
    What part exactly has multiculturalism played in that?
    Ireland has become more Western and Americanised than anything else.
    What positive marks has immigration, particularly different cultures like African and Middle Eastern, left on this country?

    There are no concrete benefits to multiculturalism. There are most definitely potential downfalls though. The benefits are very much subjective opinion, personally I agree with these benenfits. I like hearing different languages, the diversity of physical appearance, learning about different cultures. But Id hate to see people argue as though its a necessary part of life or that theres any very legitimate reasons to introduce multiculturalism. If a country is against it, or is having economic problems, I could totally understand why a country might not want to partake in this kind of social expirement as there are many potential problems that could occur such as lack of integration that will only bring down the general quality of life in the country. While really multiculturalism offers no definite positive benefits to a country, socially or economically. Theres really no proof to argue otherwise

    I think it works in wealthy, relatively culturally aware and accepting countries such as Ireland where the benefits most likely will outweigh the negatives


  • #298
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    The Fake Sheikh wrote: »
    And in turn brought out the usual inane dribbling suspects to counter.

    Just what I expected. Creativity and originality in buckets.


  • #299
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    The Fake Sheikh wrote: »
    What part exactly has multiculturalism played in that?
    Ireland has become more Western and Americanised
    ................................


  • #300
    JaCrispy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 636 ✭✭✭JaCrispy


    Deleted User wrote: »
    But I think my daughter will have an even better one, because people from other backgrounds and religions have migrated here.

    I wonder if many parents of the young victims of the Ariana Grande bombing or Brussels airport attack think similar thoughts?


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  • #301
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    JaCrispy wrote: »
    I wonder if many parents of the young victims of the Ariana Grande bombing or Brussels airport attack think similar thoughts?

    They weren't really attacks on white Catholic Irish society by Slovakians, were they? And my OP referred to my childhood, when we were acutely aware of terrorism because it was happening here, regularly, albeit at the other end of the island.


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